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Where Was Our Spirit

Where was our spirit before we became a human being?

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 ---carol on 12/28/06
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Jack,

STRONG does not. They are different in STRONG.
---I_AM_I on 1/11/07


**Are you sure Eccl 12:7 does not PROVE pre-existence? **

Yes. NOt only sure, but KNOW it doesn't.

**Did you compare that scripture to the the one I listed in Job 34:14-15 which CLEARLY proves the *difference* between breath and spirit in the OT? If you did not compare them, let us do so now.**

LXX uses PNEVMA in both places.
---Jack on 1/11/07


Carol: The answer to your question is "existing" WITH GOD . (Jeremiah 1:4-5)
---Leon on 1/4/07


3/ Jack

Let us now look at Job 34:14-15: * If he [God] set his heart upon man, if he gathers to himself his spirit (RUWACH) and his breath (NESHAMAH); ALL FLESH shall perish together, and shall return to the dust.*

Again, we need BOTH spirit and breath to be *alive.* Remember, God breathed the breath of life into Adam*s nostril and he became a living soul.
---I_AM_I on 1/3/07


4/ Jack

The question on the blog is Where was our spirit? I say it existed with God and not in any non-existence, and these scriptures as well as several others support that.

Feel free to show me where this changed in the NT, which translates PNEUMA [4151] as *Spirit* or *spirit* 385 times.
---I_AM_I on 1/3/07




1/Jack

YOU WROTE: The scripture you quoted PROVES we had no existence before our conceptions in Hebrew and LXX because the same word rendered 'spirit" also means "breath."

Are you sure Eccl 12:7 does not PROVE pre-existence? Did you compare that scripture to the the one I listed in Job 34:14-15 which CLEARLY proves the *difference* between breath and spirit in the OT? If you did not compare them, let us do so now.
---I_AM_I on 1/3/07


2/ Jack

According to STRONG in the OT (i) NESHAMAH [5397] is OFTEN translated as *breath* as well as *spirit* and (ii) RUWACH [7307] is OFTEN translated as the *Spirit* of God or *spirit* as well as *wind* and *breath.*

Eccl 12:7 reads, *the Spirit (RUWACH) shall return unto God who gave it.*

Who gave the Spirit? God. Who does the Spirit return to? God, and NOT non-existence, as you claimed.
---I_AM_I on 1/3/07


**I pointed out using Scripture that we pre-existed with God. Prove that we were non-existing.**

But I aready did.

The scripture you quoted PROVES we had no existence before our conceptions in Hebrew and LXX because the same word rendered 'spirit" also means "breath."
---Jack on 1/3/07


So, Jack, who are the sons of men at the foundation of the world? More importantly, you said we were non-existing and I pointed out using Scripture that we pre-existed with God. Prove that we were non-existing.
---I_AM_I on 1/2/07


**Please read chapter 8 of Proverbs and you will see in verse 31 (sons of men) existed with God at the foundation of the earth.**

I have, and it doesn't imply that in either the original Hebrew or the LXX.

So there.
---Jack on 1/2/07




greetings.In proverbs we have the Voice of Wisdom,the the seventh of the seven spirits of God.The Holy Spirit is not the only spirit man experiences.Although most groups all of them as one.'Wisdom' functions in man's developed mind.Also;The indwelling spirit (the true light)returns to heaven as does the guardian spirit.The personality now sleeps.They're unannounced entering or returning.The indwelling spirits normally indwells after birth for can they indwell one who is never born?
---earl on 12/30/06


FWIW, while the KJV of Ecclesiastes says, "the spirit returns to God Who gave it," I will point out that the Hebrew word ALSO means 'breath"--as "pnevma" in Greek and "spiritus" in Latin also mean both.

(Compare English "ghost" and "gust"--yes, they are cognates.)
---Jack on 12/30/06


1/Jack

If the spirit came from God and returned to God, how can we be non-existence? We can only be non-existence IF God is also non-existence, and we know God ALWAYS existed! Therefore, we always existed. Please read chapter 8 of Proverbs and you will see in verse 31 (sons of men) existed with God at the foundation of the earth.
---I_AM_I on 12/30/06


2/Jack

YOU WROTE: And when did God give it? Obviously, at the instant of our conception.

Are you sure it is at conception? Admittedly, there is a difference between spirit and breath, and we need BOTH to be *alive.* Job 34:14-15. Also, Genesis says God breathed into Adam*s nostril the breath of life and Adam became a living soul. I see nothing about conception!
---I_AM_I on 12/30/06


2/Jack

YOU WROTE: And when did God give it? Obviously, at the instant of our conception.

Are you sure it is at conception? Admittedly, there is a difference between spirit and breath, and we need BOTH to be *alive.* Job 34:14-15. Also, Genesis says God breathed into Adam*s nostril the breath of life and Adam became a living soul. I see nothing about conception!
---I_AM_I on 12/30/06


3/Jack

Are we a spiritual being having a bodily or earthly experience or are we a body having a spiritual experience? Jack, we are spirits in our SOURCE or ESSENCE! As such, we always existed and we can never experience DEATH, unless God can experience death. God is deathless, and so are we!
---I_AM_I on 12/30/06


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3/Jack

Are we a spiritual being having a bodily or earthly experience or are we a body having a spiritual experience? Jack, we are spirits in our SOURCE or ESSENCE! As such, we always existed and we can never experience DEATH, unless God can experience death. God is deathless, and so are we!
---I_AM_I on 12/30/06


3/Jack

Are we a spiritual being having a bodily or earthly experience or are we a body having a spiritual experience? Jack, we are spirits in our SOURCE or ESSENCE! As such, we always existed and we can never experience DEATH, unless God can experience death. God is deathless, and so are we!
---I_AM_I on 12/30/06


RE: evil spirits

God is Spirit (John 4:24). Therefore, God is THE SOURCE of ALL SPIRITS! In fact, the Bible says God is the Father of spirits (Heb 12:9). Also, we are ONE SPIRIT (1 Cor. 12). In addition, God creates EVIL (KJV, Isa. 45:7). Consequently, there is no spirit outside of God. We should be careful not to confuse God as Spirit with an anthropomorphic God (God as Father). God is Universal Spirit and not a man!
---I_AM_I on 12/30/06


I do not fear man because he can destroy my body. I do fear God because He can destroy the body and the spirit. At the end of our lives, our spirits return to God? How can an evil sprit return to a loving God? Likewise, at the beginning, how can God create an evil spirit?
---Steveng on 12/29/06


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*God always existed, and yes, we too pre-existed before this incarnation. Here is one of many verses which says our spirit RETURNED to God who gave it**

And when did God give it? Obviously, at the instant of our conception.

What you are teaching is not Christianity, but Mormonism and Origenism.
---Jack on 12/29/06


Our spirit was with God. He is the one that BREATHED into us His breath. God's breath is our spirit. Humans are unique from animals in that we were formed with God's hands, not spoken into existance, and also that we have God's breath (spirit) in us. Animals do not.
---Leslie on 12/29/06


We have our being in God. We consist by and through God. Each individual human being is a chip off the old block as they say in the vernacular. We came from God and will return to God. If in your worldly existence we recognize Jesus Christ as God and call on him to save our souls we will spend eternity with God. Otherwise(it ain't good)
---Mima on 12/29/06


God Breathed and life was given. Human life comes directly from God, and it's preexistence was in his loving imagination.

If that's how it was in times past that's how it is now.

As Elder says if it's new it ain't true.
---Pharisee on 12/29/06


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if a person understan his or her place in the universe then think on the statement christ made to us, i am that i am.i think it speaks for itself.
---oneil on 12/29/06


The question "where?" is a relative question. It is relative to where you are now "here". Your spirit is allways NOW HERE.
---peter8365 on 12/29/06


Carol

GREAT, GREAT, GREAT question! This will answer where Adam was before he was created and the issue of original sin.
---I_AM_I on 12/29/06


Jack, there is no such thing as non-existence! God always existed, and yes, we too pre-existed before this incarnation. Here is one of many verses which says our spirit RETURNED to God who gave it. Eccl 12:6-7. More importantly, there are many verses in Scripture that allude to REINCARNATION, despite Hebrew 9:27 (we only die once), which supports reincarnation. One day I will post a blog on reincarnation.
---I_AM_I on 12/29/06


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All spirit is from God. your portion was given by God. As far as if it pre-existed you who knows? Time is a funny issue when speaking in relation to God.
---Ryan on 12/28/06


Our Spirit resided with God until we were formed just as Adam's did. We were with God before the foundation of the world or we could never have "eternal" life. Check it out, eternal has no beginning or end. Awesome huh?
---mikefl on 12/28/06


Our spirit, as life force, is the breath of God, therefore was with the Father & shall return to Him when this mortal life is over. Our spirit, as our attitude, mental disposition, or habitual way of acting toward or relating to the life we have been given, is either still bounded & obscured by the sensually based mentality we were born into, or it has been freed & reborn through an awareness of the indwelling presence of the Holy Spirit resulting in an on going renewal of the mind by the word of God.
---joseph on 12/28/06


The same place our bodies were before our conception. Non-existent.

You don't actually think our spirits were hanging around Kolob in some sort of heretofore do you?

Don't tell me you beleive in preincarnation!
---Jack on 12/28/06


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