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Why Was Adam Held Accountable

Many say that babies cannot be held accountable because they do not know good and evil. If this is true than why were Adam and Eve held accountable for transgressing God's command since they didn't have the knowledge of good and evil?

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 ---Ryan on 1/6/07
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Pharisee ... God did not buy the house with the dark cellar for use as a torture chamber. He actually built it!
---alanUKquent64534 on 2/2/08

What would you say of a man plans to have a family and buys a house with a BIG DARK basement to keep his children in and allows his worst enemy to enter and torment them day and night their entire life?

Right, you'd call him EVIL.

In this case we merely say God is careless, and cannot overcome this oversight but keeps creating babies anyway, But God is not a man that he can be duped and outwitted.
---Pharisee on 6/3/07

Ryan, you can believe as you wish and do as you wish. It is not for us to change your way of thinking or for that matter change you. All everyone can do is give Scripture to show you the cause and that is all that we are called to do. What God does with His word is His concern not mine. We content for the faith, as we learn about God. The why God does certain things is not for me to know, for I sure don't know all of His ways. And never will. So thanks for your answers and I will move on.
---lisa on 1/22/07

Could it be the same thing we see today?
Ye shall be as gods.
They eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, the law and as gods try to condemn others rather than use it to glorify Christ and shew mercy.
To be as gods.
---Frank on 1/22/07

Genesis 2:16 And the LORD God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat:

Then he said But
Genesis 2:17 But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.

the devil gave them a revelation
that made them forget the but God said using only he said eat of every tree.
then made his new you will be like God doctrine, and they just ate it up .
---exzucuh on 1/22/07

God only commanded Adam not to eat from the tree of good and evil. Why was Adam just standing there allowing his wife to eat from the tree of good and evil? Why did he eat too after God commanded him not to?
---tonne on 1/22/07

#1 Anonymous, I am not a good man for no man is good. The only good that is in me is given by the Lord Christ Jesus. Many do not like what is said in scripture because they believe themselves to be of Christ but they are deceived and are still in the flesh. Many responses that are given are based on faulty man-made doctrine and precepts. I certanly do not answer with opinion all answers I give are from scripture because I am a workman who diligently studies to show myself approved.
---Ryan on 1/10/07

#2 Anonymous, You do not understand the answers of truth as truth because you listen to the doctrines and precepts of men rather then the Word of Truth. I do not see the 'wisdom' in many answers that you speak of and as the bible instructs I consider all men liars. I am not the only one with truth I have found others but they are few and far between. MANY ARE CALLED FEW ARE CHOSEN.
---Ryan on 1/10/07

Anonymous the funny thing is we all think we have truth. Catholics, Protestants, Apostolics, Evangelicals, Pentacostals, Mormons, JW's, Baptists and every other denomination out there believes theirs is the only truth. But they can't all have truth. So many people on these blogs are denominational and therefore can't even begin to see their own indoctrination to the untruth of their denomination. I like people who honestly study scripture and don't just reiterate what they've heard from the pulpit.
---Ryan on 1/10/07

Ryan, and why is it that you THINK you're the only one with THE TRUTH? That's what I don't understand about you. Enough folks on this site have challenged your posts and I know they are Godly people who are definitely walking in truth. Their responses are more accurate. You are a good man, I'm not saying you aren't. I'm just saying truth mingled with opinion doesn't mean you have THE Truth.
---Anonymous on 1/10/07

Anonymous, I am going to post an explination on this matter that will hopefully clear-up this whole misunderstanding on the 'Unborn Babies Go to Heaven' Blog. The response will be addressed to kay, but I suggest you read it.
---Ryan on 1/9/07

Anonymous, I could say the same about you. We can go back and forth on this for all eternity, there is one bottom line; THere is only one truth. I don't quite see how you figured I ensnared myself with my own words.
---Ryan on 1/9/07

**Ryan, you finally did it. You are ensnared by your own words, and I'll show you how**

To say something happens without God's prior knowledge, is to say God is not omniscient-SHOW ME WHERE I SAID THIS IN MY POST BELOW-YOU SAID THIS, NOT ME.

THIS IS YOUR OPINION, NOT TRUTH: But you probably believe in a doctrine of 'free will' where God does not know what is going to happen and everything that happens to us is by our own sovereign choice.
---Anonymous on 1/9/07

Finally Ryan - YOU SAID: You speak of wisdom yet in regard to many subjects (The holiness 0f children included) no one speaks with biblical truth and wisdom, most people respond from their own human, secular -YOU ARE DOING THIS AND YOU DON'T EVEN REALIZE IT. THIS IS OPINION, YOURS and IT'S SERIOUSLY ERRONEOUS and you don't even realize it.
---Anonymous on 1/9/07


"I know this is hard to swallow when you have understood something one way for a long time but you have to read Scripture as a whole."

You need to heed your own words. The reason you have misunderstood fro so long is you have not included important scriptures such as I Corinthians 7:14 when you look at scripture as a whole; you have an important piece missing.
---Ryan on 1/9/07

Ryan, I know this is hard to swallow when you have understood something one way for a long time but you have to read Scripture as a whole. Jesus Himself made reference of children and babies many times. In Matthew 19:13, after explaining about marriage and devorce, He spoke of the children. " Then little children were brought to Him and that He might put His hands on them and pray, but the disciples rebuked them. But Jesus said, "Let the little children come to Me, and do not forbid them;
---lisa on 1/9/07

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2. for of such is the Kingdom of Heaven." "of such" these children were too young to have exercised personal faith. You can see the same in Luke 18:15, where Luke refers to them as "infants." Therefore it is all the more significant that Christ used them as an illustration of those who make up "the kingdom of heaven" Mark 10:16 also says He "blessed them." God often show a special mercy to those who because of age or mental deficiency are
---lisa on 1/9/07

3. incapable of either faith or willful unbelief, check Jon. 4:11. They are called "innocent" in Jer. 19:4. This does not mean they are free from the inherited guilt and moral corruption of Adam's sin, but rather that they are not culpable in the same sense as those whos sins are premeditated and deliberate. Jesus words here suggest that God's mercy is graciously extended to infants so that those who die are sovereignly regenerated and granted entrance into the kingdom
---lisa on 1/9/07

4. not because they are deserving of heaven, but becuase God in His grace chooses to redeem them, check Mark 10:14. We discussed these part of babies, and my believe is that we all inherit the sin nature, but only the one's that can make a choice and understand are the one's spoken of all through Scripture. Disobedient, murders, pride and so on. There rejection of Christ is their doom. The reason we are held accountable as adults is because it's our duty to teach our children as they grow about Christ.
---lisa on 1/9/07

5. The babies have no way of rejecting or excepting Christ since they are incapable of such thinking. It will be their faults as they grow and are held accountable for all of their actions. And the kingdom of God is not like those, but such as babies or children.
---lisa on 1/9/07

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Ryan you are an authority on the misuse of Scripture.
Maybe you can tell us where the baby is and also the whereabouts of David? I didn't ask where are their bodies.
I like the way you say you don't understand for I truly don't think you do. You could but you won't.
Cond #2
---Elder on 1/9/07

Cond #2
If you were to take the time to research those words, Can I bring him back again and I shall go to him but he shall not return to me, you would understand.
This baby's body was lying dead in David's presence why did David not go to him then? What comfort does going to a dead baby give?
You read too much of what someone else has said and have learned nothing on your own.
Get up to the table and grab a piece of meat and chew on it. It'll make a difference.
---Elder on 1/9/07

Elder, what does David's son have to do with anything. Are you one of those that misuse that scripture. David said I will go to him. This did not mean heaven. It amazes me how people misuse II Samuel 12:22,23.
---Ryan on 1/8/07

Cond #2
You asked, "Do you need to have intellectual knowledge of your inherited condemnation before you can be held accountable, ther bible does not say so."
You are not held accountable for your sin condition. You are held responsible for rejecting Christ, His sacrifice and keeping your sin condition.
If you think this is not so maybe you would like to tell me when King David's baby son accepted Christ.
I have God Salvation to redeem me, not Elder's or Ryan's. Thank God.
---Elder on 1/8/07

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Anonymous, of course God allowed Adam and Eve to fall. To say something happens without God's prior knowledge, is to say God is not omniscient. But you probably believe in a doctrine of 'free will' where God does not know what is going to happen and everything that happens to us is by our own sovereign choice. You speak of wisdom yet in regard to many subjects (The holiness 0f children included) no one speaks with biblical truth and wisdom, most people respond from their own human, secular understanding.
---Ryan on 1/8/07

#1 O.K. everyone let us be honest. Can you present a scripture that says babies are innocent? Can you present a scripture that says babies are not accountable for the judgement of humanity? Can you provide a scripture that says unless you know what good and evil are you are not held accountable? The answer to every question is, NO!
---Ryan on 1/8/07

#2 Yet I can reference scriptures that speak of children being unclean and holy, I Corinthians 7:14. I can also provide scripture that states we are all conceived and born in sin Psalm 51:5. And there is scripture that supports everyone is condemned and sinful, Romans 3:23, 5:12, 5:18. BUt I guess it doesn't matter what scripture syas does it? YOu have all taken your black Hi-Liter's to these scriptures and you rely on human conjecture and inference based on general principal.
---Ryan on 1/8/07

Ryan, it is obvious that all of the folks who responded to your question have given you wisdom and insight to help you understand that babies do not understand good and evil, etc., EXCELLENT RESONSES ARE HERE TO HELP YOU, yet you seem to want to argue the TRUTH about babies and you want them held accountable, why is that? What seed is in you that makes you argue this point over and over? How did satan capture your thoughts over this? because they are erroneous and you really need to repent.
---Anonymous on 1/8/07

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Ryan, you said: ****Why did God allow Adam and Eve to fall? For His glory*******

God did NOT "allow" Adam and Eve to fall. They CHOOSE to disobey and ignore the command God gave to them. Where is the scripture reference to back up this false doctrine you are stating? It could NOT have been for God's glory because God created them for His pleasure and then gave them a choice. How is that allowing them to fall? They choose NOT to obey Him. That is not "allowing" them to fall.
---Anonymous on 1/8/07

Babies are a sponge, they can be taught good and evil. God knew man would fall, if we never fell we would be spoiled. Which is an abomination in itself.
---Jacques on 1/7/07

Anyone who has applied logic knows that for any law to valid it has to be reciprocal.
Gravity with it were grounded without it weightless.
In Micah 6:8 God says he requires us to love mercy.
How could a Holy God ask us to be something without he also being that way? NO SERVANT is greater than his master. Exodus 33:19
---Pharisee on 1/7/07

1. logic is a method God communicates with sinners. logic is a way to understand the realities. we are so blind and could not connect one fact with another logicaly, we could not connect the result with the reason, so we always think they are leaps.God is the reason, we face the facts. the connection is logical. holy spirit lead us to know why, what, how.
---dsda on 1/7/07

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2. if totally with God, desire of knowing good and evil is not good. if not totally with God, desire of knowing good and evil is helpful. Adam was totally with God, but he split his sight by knowing good and evil, so his eyes become blur. but baby is born with original sin, his eyes are born split, knowing good and evil will take him back to God.
---dsda on 1/7/07 a baby cannot be held accountable for the blindness, adam held accountable for he made himself to be blind.
4. we could not give punishment to baby because we are the same with him. but we do not know what God does to baby.

---dsda on 1/7/07

Ryan you cut and paste from that Tony Warren article, and then accuse me of human logic in place of the Spirit's leading.

I've not formed doctrine from another man's interpretation of scripture, and admittedly it flies in the face of what many have believed for centuries.

If you really paid attention and knew the Spirit by which I write you would first seek to understand and then come up with a conclusion based on all the facts instead of believing that Tony Warren article and trusting it.
---Pharisee on 1/7/07

Elder, I have no Idea what you mean when you say, "...the smartest human ever formed to a baby that knows virtually nothing."
Do you need to have intellectual knowledge of your inherited condemnation before you can be held accountable, ther bible does not say so. Like it or not all humans are conceived and born in one condition condemned, hence the definition of grace; unmerited mercy.
---Ryan on 1/7/07

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If you would like to contact me I'll call you, but don't think I'll endure a bunch of anger and interruption while I am speaking, you'll meet my friend Mr. Click. Send me your number.

---Pharisee on 1/7/07

I have to boast. It is not beneficial; but I should passon to supernatural visions and revealation of the Lord. 2Corithians-12:1. Therefore I take pleasures in weaknesses,in insults, in cases of need, in persecution and difficulties, for christ. For when I am weak, then am powerful.2Corinthians-12:10
---mendy on 1/7/07

Ryan you rebuked Pharisee and yet ask a question that relates the smartest human ever formed to a baby that knows virtually nothing.
You need to use some "logic" and turn to the Bible. Adam was not formed a baby. He was full of intelligence. Unlike some of those here who play a Bible skeptic and rejecter.
PS. There is a Train coming; Stop, Look, and Listen before jumping in front of it.

Alan surely there is something in the water that made you answer like you did.
---Elder on 1/7/07

For in what respect is it that you became less than the congregation, except myself that I did not become a burden to you? Kindly forgive me this wrong. Will you? All: To the muslim world, not the sword of killing, but justice, truth and peace to be upon the earth.
---mendy on 1/7/07

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#1 Pharisee, I guess we both think we are led by the Holy Spirit and that all our wisdom, strength, knowledge and righteousness come from Him; and I hope we are both right. In my conversations with you, you tend to lean more on analogies, philosophy and human logic; and at times you have been rude.
---Ryan on 1/7/07

#2 Pharisee, Obviously we cannot both be right on the ramifications of the condemnation of Adam. The bible appears to document an increasingly wicked creation who's entire existence is at enmity to God from conception to the grave. YOu tend to feel that babies are not accountable to the judgement and wickedness of man, inherited by every man, from Adam to the generation alive today and all gereations in the future.
---Ryan on 1/7/07

#3 Pharisee, Have babies made the world a better place? Does mankind stop waring and sinning agianst each other and God because of the righteousness of babies?
---Ryan on 1/7/07

You are sying God bought a house with a big dark basement so that satan could torment His creation. You are wrong. Again, Pharisee

Is that REALLY what I said?
---Pharisee on 1/6/07

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Pharisee, Ask the Holy Spirit to purge you of human logic so that you may grow in the Lord

If I lead will you FOLLOW?
---Pharisee on 1/6/07

Adam might not have understood all. He had not partaken of the fruit of the tree. But, Adam did know that he was not to disobey God in the partaking of that tree. The sin was the sin of disobedience.
---Ed on 1/6/07

But Adam and Eve had already been warned--they disobeyed; a baby comes into the world pure and fresh and only when he's older is he/she aware of right and wrong; but Adam and Eve knew better, just like I knew when I had my first drink, it was a bad choice--but I did it anyway, unfortunately.
---Mary on 1/6/07

ryan,you are totally missing the point.babies are born with the same curse as adam and eve. adam and eve were both able to talk with God and chose to DISCBEY him. when you choose to DISCBEY GOD its called sinand you have transgressed Gods word.if they had not been told there would be grounds. and since we have the word we too will be held accountable for our decisions.I believe that any child who can,t understand right and wrong good and evil are not held accountable.
---tom2 on 1/6/07

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I. A&E weren't babies.

II. Adam (subsequently Eve) knew about good & evil (G2:16-17). Not heeding God-given foreknowledge (G3:6...) turned deadly when Adam chose to sin (disobey God's word). Remember, Eve was deceived ; but, Adam consciously chose... (1 Tim 2:14)

III. A&E, unlike babies, weren't innocent because they knew better .

IV. Accountability? We're all responsible for what we know once we "know" .
---Leon on 1/6/07

(i)Adam was accountable because he was the head of Eve.
If we read 1 Cor.11:3, But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God. We can see that Adam was the head of Eve. And at that time God was the head of Adam.
---Shawn.M.T on 1/6/07

The issue is not the "knowledge of good and evil" it is about choosing evil. A baby is incapable of choosing evil. Adam was very capable of making the right choice. He did not.
---BRUCE5656 on 1/6/07

(ii)So the fall of man would not have come about if Adam had not disobeyed God by eating the fruit of knowledge. Even if Eve was the only one that ate the forbidden fruit, Satan would never have gotten dominion in the earth; because Adam would have been able to cleanse Eve the same way Christ cleansed us, with the blood of the lamb. This is explained in Num 30:8.
---Shawn.M.T on 1/6/07

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(1)The scriptures say that God has put his EVERY WORD (not just only good words) in our inwardly parts; so that no man or brother need teach another. It is the Holy Spirit that reveals and keeps us in remembrances of the word of God. Babies do know good and evil. Adam and Eve knew good & evil; But throw their free will chose to disobey God commandment. By disobeying he severed our connection with the Holy Spirit; which gave us access to the host of heaven, and the means by which to removed Satan.
---Shawn.M.T on 1/6/07

(1ii) Rev.12:11 And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death. This is how the casting out of Satan was accomplished in Heaven and is how it shall be accomplished in the earth.
---Shawn.M.T on 1/6/07

(2)The blood of the lamb cleanses of sin and death. It is like the blood of the lamb is putting a partition up between good and evil; so we will know which one we are to speak. This was in place before Adam disobeyed God. After Adam ate of the fruit of good and evil the partition fell, and we could no longer tell between the good and evil words we spoke.
---Shawn.M.T on 1/6/07

(2ii) This is why we were given the Ten Commandments; so our sin could be revealed to us. This enabled us to know Gods will and speak it into the world. And now that Christ has cleansed us we have been sealed with the Holy Spirit by the Grace of God, and are saved having access to the host of heaven again through our faith in Christ Jesus.
---Shawn.M.T on 1/6/07

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They were accountable because they had understanding of what God commanded and they made a decision to go against it. Babies do not have this capability.
Were there is no law, sin is not imputed. Unless God has communicated His will to the baby and the baby understands I see no fair comparison between Adam and babies.
---john on 1/6/07

#1 Pharisee, once again you are using human logic. Why did God allow Adam and Eve to fall? For His glory. Look what God is doing. He is calling a Bride out of humanity for His only Begotten Son. This glorifies God. You are sying God bought a house with a big dark basement so that satan could torment His creation. You are wrong. Again, Pharisee, your mind is so intwined with secular logic it is keeping you from maturing in the mind of Christ.
---Ryan on 1/6/07

#2 Pharisee, Ask the Holy Spirit to purge you of human logic so that you may grow in the Lord, for His logic is infinite, righteous and true; your human logic is limited, wicked and untruthful. Sometimes I wish you and I could speake face to face because I believe we would have better conversations.
---Ryan on 1/6/07

Pharisee, once again you are the pot screaming at the potter sayin, "Why did you make some of these pots for wrath." God controls everything He is sovereign. So what if He makes some vessels to endure His wrath that is His perogative and us being the creation are not to question Him.
---Ryan on 1/6/07

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