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What Is Eternal Security

To all those who do not believe in eternal security please give me your idea of what this Scripture refers to. (Jude 1:24)" Now unto him that is able to keep you from falling, and to present you faultless before the presence of his glory with exceeding joy,"

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 ---Mima on 1/10/07
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Sue

Sorry to hear you went throught that. But glad to hear that you found God as a result. Just shows to go that our biggest trials can lead to something much bigger than before.
The Trinity. Glad to say, though, that most mainstream Protestants, and Catholics, as well as Orthodox share the same theology on The Trinity. But thanks, I will check it out.
---Ed on 8/23/07


Ed - oh yeah - I'm telling you I was one angry human being and God did a heart transplant on me - the first thing was that in over two decades I have never used the Lord's name in vain - at one time I'd have done that 100 times a day.

if your interested their is an on going debate about the trinity on 'Is it essential to believ in the trinity post' I'm just not up to it. I'd like to see an RC take that one on - GO GET EM!
---Andrea on 8/22/07


Roman's 5:10,For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of His Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by His life. The truth that Paul is talking about is: Jesus Christ died to get me (us) saved, but He now lives to keep me(us) saved. This is why he is said in Hebrews 5:9 to be the author of ETERNAL salvation.
---Cynthia on 8/22/07


The popular Eternal Security/OSAS false doctrine is a half truth doctrine. Calvary is Grace,every born again child of God first came to Calvary filthy,their so-called works of righteousness =Null,But AFTER Calvary,the Holy Spirit comes into ones life,produces fruits/works, when He isn't resisted,but many fight Him,go after dumb doctrines excusing themselves,but they aren't,reason why most of the church is Dead. The works/fruits of the Holy Spirit a must,in a Christian's life(James 2:17-20).
---Mrs._Morgan on 8/21/07


Ed, I do not question the Trinity at all. I do not question your salvation. If you want to speak on Unitarian theology, I am not interested. I did want to make myself clear to you why I said what I said, sorry you didn't get it. My interest is not the Catholic Church or where you live, my interest is to speak on behalf of Salvation by "Faith in Jesus Christ alone." You gave me your 100% of the Lord, and I am glad you did. Other then that, I think I answered your questions.
---mark on 8/21/07




2. Ed: Please don't make more of my answers then what they were meant. If you got something wrong because of my quotes, I am sorry you did. I will leave it at that and just answer doctrinal questions of Scripture. Thanks again Ed.
---mark on 8/21/07


Hi Andrea

Yes, i had a road-to-Damascus experience.

Before i had the experience I was a puritan. I hardly ever laughed. I was suspicious of other people. I was a (lonely) rock. Black and white. Dry. Cold (maybe still, but, at least i am aware of). For the first time, really, in my life, I saw / felt/ experienced the light, warmth, colour, pulse, fire, joy, calm, beauty, mystery, majesty, crispness, purity, strength, gentleness, harmony, - and above all - the love - of God.

You?
---Ed on 8/21/07


Mark

Again, i wish you well. I think this would be a good point to leave this topic.
If Christians resort to blows and boxing each others ears, then the point of coming together to enligthen and be enlightened, is not just wasted, but is counter-productive.
God bless.
---Ed on 8/21/07


#2. "The unspiritual man does not receive the gifts of the Spirit of God, for they are folly to him, and he is not able to understand them because they are spiritually discerned. The lost without Christ are dead spiritually to the things of God. "And you He made alive, when you were dead through the trespasses and sins in which you once walked, following the course of this world"
---mark on 8/20/07


#3. To those that say God is able, but doesn't mean it, ".. So that you are not lacking in any spiritual gift, as you wait for the revealing of our Lord Jesus Christ, who will sustain you to the end, guiltless in the day of our Lord Jesus Christ. God is faithful, by whom you were called into the fellowship of His Son, Jesus Christ our Lord." Not only is He able but He does sustain every child of His.
---mark on 8/20/07




#4. ...Knowing that He who raised the Lord Jesus will raise us also with Jesus and bring us with you into His presence... For this slight momentary affliction is preparing us for an eternal weight of glory beyond all comparison. 2 Cor. 4:14,17. We know it because of faith. God is faithful and all hope is in Christ. Anything else is a worthless hope. Faith in Christ Jesus our Lord
---mark on 8/20/07


Mark, Helen and others.

Those who criticize Catholics for not talking enough about Jesus, I would like to ask you are you Unitarians or Trinitarians?

If you are Trinitarians then i don't question your belief in The Trinity. But if you are Unitarians, then that is a different matter, and I certainly question your Unitarian beliefs in that they undermine The Trinity.

God is Father, Son and Holy Spirit. Not just Son. For thos who question that then i would like to open a debate.
---Ed on 8/21/07


Ed, I was not questioning your salvation at all. I was explaining to you why I continued to answer you. My reasons. I didn't want to know if you were saved or not. It is not for me to know, but for you and God. When I mention Jesus Christ to you, and I know God is Jesus by the way, I mean the name of Christ Jesus as the Son, is always mention by born again believers. It does not prove anything only that my experience is that I hear people talk about Christ when they are born again.
---mark on 8/20/07


Ed what happened on the road to Damascus.
I had a rd to Damascus too - I was an atheists and 5 minutes later - WOW - I still can't believe He revealed Himself to me - a cussing unbeliever who wanted to know Him but couldn't believe.
---Andrea on 8/20/07


#2. Ed: I happen to send this second page to another blog, please don't answer it. My explanation, when a person comes to Christ, and began's that relationship with Him it is soemthing so knew and wonderful, that you want to tell the whole world about Christ. This love is seen in many people so I answered you to your explanation, why I answered that way. Please continue without me, I had said before to move on. I don't want to go to the point that will bring you to sin. Thanks for your opinions very much.
---mark on 8/20/07


No one has to prove anything to God. God is Omniscience and knows all. Even the thoughts He knows already. All human beings after Adam are born spiritually dead to the things of God. "And the Lord God commanded the man, saying, you may freely eat of every tree of the garden, but of the tree of knowledge of good and evil you shall not eat, for the day you eat of it you shall die. man did not die a physical death, he died a spiritual death.
---mark on 8/20/07


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MIMA, Mark, etc. you seems to have failed to notice that the verse said "...Him that is able to keep you from falling..." NOT "...Him that WILL keep you from falling..."

It is very clear that God is able to do all things to give us fulfillment, but if we reject Him, then we won't be fulfilled. Maybe you should look up the difference between ability and doing in a dictionary.
---OK on 8/20/07


MIMA, Mark, etc. you seems to have failed to notice that the verse said "...Him that is able to keep you from falling..." NOT "...Him that WILL keep you from falling..."

It is very clear that God is able to do all things to give us fulfillment, but if we reject Him, then we won't be fulfilled. Maybe you should look up the difference between ability and doing in a dictionary.
---OK on 8/20/07


Mark

No human being should ever have to proove their faith to another human being - only to God. Period.
I am not going to engage, further, with you on this topic if you carry on in this manner. I think this line of questioning, for you to be taking, is harmful to you, and not good for me, either.
I wish you well in your Christian life. God bless.
---Ed on 8/20/07


2. Mark

'Your experience at 17, while great, did not mention one word of Christ' - I said God. You know i don't mean Allah or Buddha, come on. When refering to God, the Christian doesn't just refer to Jesus, but also to the other two persons in The Trinity.
---Ed on 8/20/07


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3. Mark

'What I was talking about "Re-birth" born of God, spiritual rebirth, not physical birth' - with respect, Mark, I know

But the metaphor still works. Because a child is a gift just as salvation is a gift. They are both 100% gifts of God. And, anyway, the baby isn't just a phsyical being. It is also a spiritual being with a soul.
---Ed on 8/20/07


5. Mark

Animals procreate because they don't know any better. They are programmed to. But adults procreate once they have fallen in love (which unlike animals includes the falling in love with another soul) and cemented that love by making vows of marriage before God, and, then fulfilling their marriage vows by procreating, and allowing the process of new children of God to be born into the world.

'In a physical birth, humans are born spiritually dead' N0, NO, NO. A baby has a soul.
---Ed on 8/20/07


6. Mark

'And all true believers will show evidence of that rebirth' - but evidence to whom?

The only person who needs evidence is God. But if God performs 'works' through the human being, according to the line of your logic, then He doesn't need to be performing works in order to provide Himself with evidence of the person being born again. The evidence is already there before the 'works' began, through the person's faith.
---Ed on 8/20/07


7. Mark

Unless you mean that the person has to prove themselves, with evidence, to other people around them, as if they are meant to judge whether the person is 'born again' or not.

No, evidence is only necessary for God. And evidence is provided to God not just by believing that Jesus died on the cross for our salvation but that we really believe this by carrying out the will of God through life.
---Ed on 8/20/07


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8. Mark

Salvation is still 100% a gift of God, but like the parents of the child (as opposed to an animal who doesn't have any choice about the matter, but will have an infant as soon as its body and environment allow), we must choose to follow the will of God.
---Ed on 8/20/07


#4 Ed: When I answered you I spoke that loving others and following the commandments of God would not get you in the door of His kingdom unless you were born again. Your experience at 17, while great, did not mention one word of Christ. Through my experience, I find that almost every true believer who is born again of the Spirit, cannot stop talking about Christ. He cannot help not speaking about his new love. His whole life revolves around the Lord Jesus.
---mark on 8/20/07


#5. Ed: Then you answered, "Salvation is 100% of the Lord" I backed off. It meant to that you understood. That nothing you did or ever will do will get you a free pass. It is an act of God from first to last. 100%. Rebirth brings with it evidence of your rebirth through your actions in life, your works, but never the cause of your salvation. God is the cause. And all true believers will show evidence of that rebirth by their works. For faith without works is dead faith. Again, peace.
---mark on 8/20/07


Ed, thank you for your answers. What I was talking about "Re-birth" born of God, spiritual rebirth, not physical birth. Which of course no matter what the two people do, or eat, the baby is born and brought to life because God allowed it and permitted the baby to be born. Even if the two people ate good and had sex, didn't guarantee the baby would come. It is still up to God. In a physical birth, humans are born spiritually dead.
---mark on 8/20/07


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#2. Ed: What you are explaining is what Nicodemus was thinking, what I am explaining is what Jesus was saying, "Most assuredly, I say, unless one is born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God." and two verse later, Unless one is born of water and Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God." In Jesus own words, there is a precondition,
---mark on 8/20/07


#3. Ed: Jesus is stating an emphatic necessary precondition for any human being's ability to see and to enter the kingdom of God. That spiritual condition is "Rebirth" Before a person can see Christ his heart must be changed. He must be born again. None-reform which is what you follow which is the theology of the Catholic Church, have fallen people, those who are dead spiritually first choosing Christ and then being born again.
---mark on 8/20/07


Mark

When a child is born into this world that child is 100% a gift of God.

However, the parents have to do things for that child to be born. They have to choose a partner. Believe that person is right for them. Get married and procreate. The woman also has to eat or her child dies. The husband or she has to go out and work to provide for food and shelter. And the mother has to nurture and care for the child once it is born.
---Ed on 8/20/07


2. Mark

The child is still 100% a gift of God. The parents are given the graces for the embryio to be allowed to grow, and for the baby to be nurtured.

But there is still participation - pain - effort - sacrifice - love - on the part of the parents too.
---Ed on 8/20/07


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3. Mark

So yes, Mark i still believe that salvation is 100% a gift of God.
---Ed on 8/20/07


4. Mark

About being 'born again' - I am not here to talk about myself!

Although I have been asked, personally, before here, and i answered yes.

When I 17 I had a road-to-Damascus experience.
---Ed on 8/20/07


Ed, good morning, let me say, when I started talking to you, you spoke about what a person had to do to be saved, love others and all those things. I responded with, "you had to be born again first," you continued to give me answers but never acknowledge that you had to be born again first. Later you gave me a lot of answers, but you didn't admit that a person had to be born again in order to do all those works for Christ. But in one of your last post you gave a great
---mark on 8/19/07


#2 Ed: of what I was talking about when you said, "Salvation is 100% of the Lord" That to me was enough. That was all I wanted to convey to you." 100% of the Lord." That tells me that no percentage is left to someone else. Not one ioda. All the other stuff might mean many things but salvation is of the Lord. I wish many in your church would believe as you do with your explanation. But the fact is, many from your faith disagree with you. But that is someone else, not you.
---mark on 8/19/07


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#3. Ed: So long as we agree with that part of salvation, all other things fall in place. Life comes from God, enlightment comes from God, Faith comes from God. Discernment comes from God, repentance comes from God's convictions. Without God causing those things to happen, no one can see the kingdom of God. No matter how much they work at it. If God didn't do His work in us, we would continue in a fallen state. "100% of the Lord" I agree with you on that. Peace to you.
---mark on 8/19/07


Mark

Also, i apologize for singleing you out. In fact, you offer fuller explanations that many others. I don't object to people taking Catholic faith to task, as long as they understand what Catholics really believe, and explain word by word what they mean by certain words such as 'faith' and 'works' etc, and to explain quotes that apparently refute their claims etc..

Not just 'faith' and 'works' but also other subjects too, on other blogs.

Again, apologies for singleing you out.
---Ed on 8/19/07


Mark

I would just like to qualify my last long list of posts to say that faith is also about prayer, about discerning God's will, and getting close to God, as well as being obedient in carrying His will. This involves pain and suffering on our part(sometimes a little, sometimes a lot, sometimes it is almost unbearable, and sometimes it can be completely pain free as in a miracle). I say that to qualify that being obedient to God doesn't mean that faith is plain-sailing and pain-free on our part.
---Ed on 8/19/07


A person who has true faith in Jesus Christ and His Word, "can never" be taken over by any evil spirits. They can tempt the believer, but never can that spirit inherit what belongs to God. The enemy also tries to deceive believers by using many on line to teach false doctrines of works, so that true believers will have doubts on his faith in Christ Jesus and depend on himself.
---tony on 8/19/07


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Mark

Thank you. I respect you for your sense of decency within the context of this subject that Christians have such strong views about. God bless you.
---Ed on 8/18/07


(Colossians 3:23-25),


(Ephesians 5:6-17)(Ephesians 6:10-18)(Colossians 1:10)(2 Thessalonians 3:6-7)(1 Timothy 4:8,9).
---Mrs._Morgan on 8/18/07


(1.)If any Christian has knowledge of how the enemy works & deceives, his tactics,(demonology) I'm sure they have heard of how the enemy tries to deceive with "sympathy", pouting, whimpering...don't fall for it! That spirit of satan/spirit of lies, must never be pampered.
---Mrs._Morgan on 8/18/07


(2.)Many Christians have been taken over by seducing spirits (1 Tim.4:1-2) , it's a sign of these last days,they allowed it to happen. I know of a person who saw a whimpering demon, it wanted sympathy, but that person didn't give it sympathy, he knew if he pampered that spirit, it would take him over, some Christians are aware of this, God warns His true people about that (2 John 1:9-11).
---Mrs._Morgan on 8/18/07


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...We love BECAUSE He first loved us...
Love produces real faith and faith produces good works.
If we dont love, there is no real faith to be had.(I am nothing) If we dont have faith, there is no good works to be had. (I am nothing)
---duane on 8/18/07


Judas was hand picked by Jesus. He was one of the twelve that was sent to preach, heal the sick and cast out demons. Where is he, heaven or hell? If Jesus came to earth, would he pick you as one of the twelve. Remember even if he did, you still would not have eternal security. It only takes one to blow the whole theory.
---yoshin on 8/18/07


I ask people who teach you can lose your salvation: how many sins does it take to lose your salvation? Is our salvation by our own efforts? Then we get to Heaven on our own merits and we don't need His Grace. It's about us and not about Christ. What do we need The Holy Spirit for if we have to maintain ourselves.
---Hawk on 8/18/07


I have found that people who don't believe in Eternal Security want to be able to say that somehow they deserve to go to Heaven because of what they did and that they had a part in their Salvation, that Christ's Sacrifice was not enough, it took their effort to seal the deal that when Jesus said, 'It is finished' it really wasn't. God owes us for how we lived. Works not Grace counts.
---Hawk on 8/18/07


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Col 1:22 But now he has reconciled you by Christ's physical body through death to present you holy in his sight, without blemish and free from accusation
Col 1:23 > IF < you continue in your faith, established and firm, not moved from the hope held out in the gospel. This is the gospel that you heard and that has been proclaimed to every creature under heaven, and of which I,

I walk in total assurance of my faith >IF< I walk in Him

---Andrea on 8/18/07


Morgan, are you saved? If you say you are, how do you know you are? What makes you think you are saved? I ask only because every christian has a hope. Where does your hope lie? Is it in you? or Christ?
---donna on 8/18/07


Ed, I want to thank you for all of your answers. I just wish at least half of the Catholics would believe at least half of what you say. But they don't and is the reason many don't answer. You have been so kind in answering and giving your opinion. Praise be to God in the highest, for to love Christ, is but the beginning of loving others. Anything apart from Christ is sin, no matter the works. Eternal Security says, that God does change the individual, and He alone can save whom He wills.
---mark on 8/18/07


Eternal security does not say a person doesn't have to change, what it says is, "that a person is change by the power of God." and is Saved by the power of God" All other comments are false and are depended upon what man can do, not what God can do in a man. Anyone teaching that God is not Sovereign, does not know the God of Scripture. They are still dependent upon themselves.
---mark on 8/18/07


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(1 Thess. 3:7)(1 Thess. 5:17-19,21,22)

Eternal Security false doctrine says that one don't need to change their bad ways, but God says, that's a lie, God despises half-truths, that is what the OSAS false doctrine is, a half-truth from the pit of hell (Revelation 2:4,5)(Revelation 3:15-16)(Revelation 14:12)(Revelation 22:14-15).
---Mrs._Morgan on 8/17/07


What's the popular Eternal Security doctrine? A Lie. Many Scriptures prove this, yet,many still choose to believe it. A born-again child of God's security is remaining in God's Truth Word (Rev.16:15) can't be outside the Truth, yet remain sanctified. In (1 Thess. 5:23,24), we read Paul PRAYING THAT the church be [kept] sanctified. If OSAS false doctrine were true,then Paul would have no need to pray for that. Jesus =faithful, we're required to remain faithful to Him/His Sayings, too.
---Mrs._Morgan on 8/17/07


Brother mark....It could not of been said any clearer.
It is the freedom we have in Christ that sets us free and that is through Faith in Christ alone.
---JIM on 8/17/07


6. Mark

There are many passages (each with a different nuance in terms of virtue, but here is one of the most famous):

Jesus said (Gospel Matthew):

'Then the king will say to those at his right hand, 'Come, you that are blessed by my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world, for I was hungry and you gave me food, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you welcomed me, I was naked and you gave me clothing ..'
---Ed on 8/17/07


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7. St Paul SAYS VERY CLEARLY THAT FAITH WITHOUT LOVE IS USELESS:

'and if I have all faith so as to remove mountains,
but have not love, I am nothing'

How do you answer that, Mark?

St James says VERY CLEARLY that faith alone is not enough. St Paul tells us here that faith alone is not enough (how else can you interpret it). And Jesus says that faith alone isn't enough (how else can you interpret the passage i gave?)
---Ed on 8/17/07


8. Mark

Jesus tells us that two most important commandments are to Love God and neighbour. In order to love God we must believe that Jesus died for our salation. But that doesn't mean our salvation was completed by Jesus then. The processes was begun by Him, and is finished by Him, only when we demonstrate our complete and holistic faith in God (believing and obedience to His will until death).
---Ed on 8/17/07


9. Mark

When we do that then we don't merely just have faith in God, but we are demonstrating our love for God. And we demonstrate our love to God by loving our neighbour too (compassion, like the Prodigal Son, speaking the truth etc ..).

It is all about Love. That is what true faith is. What is love. It isn't just some wishy washy feeling. It is so much. It is holistic, and organic. Jesus shows us what love in the example of His very life. He also gives us important teachings and parables.
---Ed on 8/17/07


10. Mark

Finally. I have given many examples that show salvation is intended for all. That is not the same as saying all will necessarily be saved. But it is not for us to judge who will be saved and who won't be saved. Only God is allowed to do that. All we are commanded to do is to believe that Jesus died for our salvation and that we must obey God until death.
---Ed on 8/17/07


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Eloy - That's God's Law, for what you give is what you get, therefore if you give nothing to God, then you get nothing back from God:") -- Not true. God loves us unconditionally and provides for us because we are His children and He is our Father. I KNOW He provides for me when I'm messing up. You speak of works to enter Heaven which God will not accept because He sent His Son Jesus to pay the price for sin on the Cross. It is only by being in Christ that anybody enters Heaven.
---Helen_5378 on 8/17/07


Mark

'I fight for the Faith. True faith that comes from been born again, and believing that you are saved by grace through faith in Jesus Christ' - and so do Roman Catholics. Roman Catholics also believe in being 'born again.' This is NOT A MONOPOLY THAT ANYONE CAN OWN. Not even those who officially call themsleves 'born again' Christians.
---Ed on 8/17/07


2. Mark

'Ed: The worship of idols is wrong' and any Catholic who believes otherwise is guilty of heresy.

'worship of Mary is wrong' - and any Roman Catholic who does this is guilty of heresy. And unless they repented from this they would be exomcommunicated. I know my Roman Catholic theology, Mark. Don't tell me what i don't know. Whether you accept prayer to Mary or not, THIS IS NOT THE SAME AS WORSHIP. You must read Catholic Catechism otherwise your arguments are based on ignorance.
---Ed on 8/17/07


3. Mark

'Many denominations teach that very thing because they got it from the Catholic Church' - that is like me saying that your belief in Calvinism derives from the Catholic Church. Because the theology of Calvinism existed in the Catholic Church generations and centuries before Calvin. But was condemned by the Catholic Church. Don't think that the arguments of predesination versus free will were something new to the Reformation. If you believe this, then there is a lot of reading up you need.
---Ed on 8/17/07


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3. Mark

'they have to add to His sacrafice on the Cross'

- no, no, no Mark. You do NOT understand 'works'. Stop thinking, for a minute what you think it means, and just listen for a minute!

Catholics believe that salvation is 100% a gift of God. Pure and simple. Jesus died for our salvation. But in order to demonstrate our faith in God it is not enough just to believe that Jesus died for our sins (although this is crucial) but we must also be obedient to His will - until the end.
---Ed on 8/17/07


4. Mark

That is what works is (works could be not doing or saying something, i.e tolerance or patience, or it could be forgiveness, or it could be helping a poor man in the ditch like the good Samaratin. We do as we are commanded by God. We react to our conscience that is God telling us what to do.
---Ed on 8/17/07


Hello Ed again: I thought we were going to move on. Let me say first to make myself clear, I don't care what denomination you belong to, whether you go to church or not, but what matters is what theology you follow. My fight is against works. I fight for the Faith. True faith that comes from been born again, and believing that you are saved by grace through faith in Jesus Christ"
---mark on 8/17/07


#2. Ed: The worship of idols is wrong, worship of Mary is wrong, believing a wafer really turns to a physical part of Christ is wrong, but nothing is more wrong then to believe you have to work to get into God's kingdom. Many denominations teach that very thing because they got it from the Catholic Church. They, through James Arminius used that bad interpretation of Scripture to gain not only money but a lot of power. But the worst part is that they are now in denial about what born again really means.
---mark on 8/17/07


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#3. Ed: Why are they in denial, because they were taught that faith in Jesus Christ is not enough. His death is not enough, they have to add to His sacrafice on the Cross. They will not listen to Scripture because they don't feel Scripture is final authority, traditions from the Church take precedence over God's Word. Why? Because they have build a great false doctrine, that no one questions it. They believe the leaders are telling the truth. How could they be wrong?
---mark on 8/17/07


#4 Ed: The Mormons have their foundation, Joseph Smith, Witnesses have theirs, Charles Russell, the Catholic Church has the popes and many corrupt leaders, who by facts, have hidden abusers without getting rid of them, so they would not abuse again and again. They didn't want anyone to know. What does that tell you? But that this man are all human beings who sin. Who make mistakes and cannot be counted on. They are not infallible as many of you think.
---mark on 8/17/07


#5. Ed: And as human beings, they make a lot of mistakes with choosing wrong doctrines for their benefit. So what happened is that now many are lost because of their teachings. They have no knowledge what born again means, regeneration, salvation, born of the Spirit, and most of all "Faith in Jesus Christ" So many are not getting saved, because they have believed a lie, that by doing good, and following the commandments, without been saved first will give you a ticket to go in.
---mark on 8/17/07


#6 Ed: Just not possible. All the work one does, will not get him closer to God. It is by grace through faith, not of ourselves, but a gift of God, so that no one can boast" many have been given God's word, but because they believe the same lie, speak on behalf of works even in other denominations. They have been given the very Word of God that we are saved unto good works, and they still argue that Christ sacrafice, His blood is not enough. Where did they get it? From the Catholic Church.
---mark on 8/17/07


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Believe in the Lord Jesus Christ, and thy will be saved. "He who believes in Me has eternal life" "And if I tell you the truth, why do you not believe Me?" He who is of God hears God's Word, therefore you do not hear, because you are not of God" "For as the Father raises the dead and gives life to them, even so the Son gives life to whom He will." "Most assuredly, I say to you, he who hears My word and believes in Him who sent Me has everlasting life."
---mark on 8/17/07


Mark and others

Don't forget that when you criticize the Catholic Church you also attack the Orthodox Church as well (which is practically identical to Catholicism, except that they don't follow the Pope, and some difference of opinion over what type of bread to use in communion).
Orthodox Christians make up the majority of practising Christians from Eastern Europe, Russia, Greece, and the first countries to be converted to Christianity.
---Ed on 8/16/07


Mark

The vast majority of Christians reject Calvinistic predestination / teachings on free will: Methodists, Orthodox Christians, Free Will Baptists, General Baptists, Pentecostals, Majority of Southern Baptists, and others (including a percentage of Anglicans and Lutherans, as well as all Catholics) - all reject Calvinism.
---Ed on 8/16/07


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