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One Nation Under God

Why are people fighting against the phrases
"in God we trust" and "One Nation under God", and what were the beliefs of the early Founding Fathers?

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 ---rosem4839 on 1/10/07
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Just because people don't worship God., doesn't mean He does not exist.
On Nation Under God....or fire and brimstone is your consequence.
---lisa on 12/21/07


Okay, I think the founding fathers thing has been sufficiently discussed, but the the first part of the question hasn't been answered. And it really is quite simple:

NOT EVERYONE WORSHIPS GOD!!!

And those two phrases tick off the non-Christians as much as 'One nation under Isis' (for example) would tick off the Christians.

The whole point of America is that it a place where EVERYBODY can worship as they please.

Everybody means EVERYBODY. Not just fundamentalist Christians.
---Nancy on 12/16/07


Please be sure and read what---Sheila hasvto say in her post just below. The Bible says, where the leader has no vision, the people perish!!!!
---Mima on 12/12/07


President George W. Bush spoke exclusively to AlArabiya TV

" Well, first of all, I believe in an almighty God, and I believe that all the world, whether they be Muslim, Christian, or any other religion, prays to the same God. That's what I believe. I believe that Islam is a great religion that preaches peace. And I believe people who murder the innocent to achieve political objectives aren't religious people" Many nations under one God
---Sheila on 12/12/07


There were 56 men who signed the Declaration of Independence. Of these, 3 were Catholics, 28 Episcopalians, 8 Presbyterians, 7 Congregationalists (a precurser to the UCC), 2 Lutherans, 2 Dutch Reformed, and 2 Methodists. That's 30 Christians out of 56.

George Washington, Ethan Allen, Thomas Jefferson, Benjamin Franklin, John Adams, and Thomas Paine had anti-established-church leanings. Jefferson, Paine, and Allen were Deists.

That's 53% Christian, 47% other.
---Nancy on 12/3/07




Are we literally "fighting" against it or are we just not believing we are "one nation under God?" Which I don't believe we are. Too much sin in America. The Pride of America is probably the biggest sin going. We can't even get "One Body of Christ" to agree on biblical truths let alone an entire nation to agree we're all following God's word and obeying it at all cost-we are NOT doing that at all.
---Donna9759 on 7/3/07


There is a BIG difference in praying to allah or any other fake diety or god. The gov. is messing with the one true God. Not to mention our savior who gave His life for His people. THE God that has been taken out of schools and gov. and just about every segment of society, just happens to be the only God that can help us.
---CATHERINE on 2/5/07


Prayer exists in school as children are free to pray there. However, it's not forced, nor are they led by one who may not even share their faith. Even if all teachers & students were Christian, as denominations frequently disagree, controversy would surely arise from a mandated daily prayer.

There are private schools for those desiring a formal prayer as part of their child's day. And hopefully parents pray with children before sending them to school & as part of their evening routine anyway.
---AlwaysOn on 2/5/07


**Before 1962 when prayer was taken out of schools, **

What was "taken out of schools" were required devotions with set prayers led by the teacher.

Would you want your child to participate in required, school-sponsored prayers if they were addressed to Allah, Vishnu, or the Goddess? Or even a generic "to whom it may concern" deity?

Where did you get the idea that "prayers in schools" today would all be evangelical Christian prayers?
---Jack on 2/4/07


** One of our greatest founding fathers said "You can't even call yourself an American if you subvert the Word of God".**

Leslie, can you be specific: WHICH founding father?

(Bet you can't!)
---Jack on 2/4/07




Taking God out of government, only allows Satan to come in. Before 1962 when prayer was taken out of schools, the biggest problems in schools were chewing gum and talking. After 1962 the biggest problems are rape, murder, drug addiction, gang membership, teenage preganancy, school shootings, and the list goes on. This is what happens when God is taken out of government.
---Leslie on 2/3/07


One of our greatest founding fathers said "You can't even call yourself an American if you subvert the Word of God". This is NOT a Freemason statement. Most of you that believe that America was founded by Freemasons, should NOT call yourself American, you are NOT. "In God We Trust", and "One Nation Under God" are statements of Bible Believing Christians, NOT Freemasons. If you don't like this, pack your bags and leave!
---Leslie on 1/30/07


One of our greatest founding fathers said "You can't even call yourself an American if you subvert the Word of God". This is NOT a Freemason statement. Most of you that believe that America was founded by Freemasons, should NOT call yourself American, you are NOT. "In God We Trust", and "One Nation Under God" are statements of Bible Believing Christians, NOT Freemasons. If you don't like this, pack your bags and leave!
---Leslie on 1/30/07


MikeM, Isaiah was a prophet the burning of witches was a part of law. With Christ came a new covenant and replaced the old covenant, hence why we don't stone rebellious children, send women out of cities during their menstration cycle and burn witches. THe words of the Prophet Isaiah in 40:17 are not law and are still applicable. YOur attempt to twist these things will not work.
---Ryan on 1/25/07


Ryan You cite Isaiah to make a point, yet on the burning of witchs you dismiss the OT quote. As I can see, you are a religion of on, Ryanology.
---MikeM on 1/25/07


MikeM I do look forward to the theocracy of the Millenial Kingdom and into eternity. As far as what secular nations like America do I could care less Isaiah 40:17.
---Ryan on 1/25/07


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Jonny- Are you then against Democracy, Republic, which is a 100% pagan concept??

Ryan-I know you are much like an Amish in political outlook, only goverment is in heaven, but you said Theocracy, you want that in America???
---MikeM on 1/25/07


Johnny.....Isaiah 45:18 For thus saith the LORD that created the heavens; God himself that formed the earth and made it; he hath established it, he created it not in vain, he formed it to be inhabited: I am the LORD, and there is none else.
---JIM on 1/23/07


** If you look at the buildings that the government builds, you will see a likeness of the buildings of Greeks and Romans and even Egypt.**

Classic Revival (as such style is generally called) ws the preferred style for public buildings. Banks and even churches were built thus during this period.

As far as what the government builds now, most of them are rectilinear boxes.
---Jack on 1/23/07


#2 If you look at the buildings that the government builds, you will see a likeness of the buildings of Greeks and Romans and even Egypt. The bald eagle, another idol, the flag, another idol that we are suppose to pledge alliegence to. They are forms of idols that is forbidden by the true "God".
---Johnny on 1/23/07


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I belive the reason for the fight is, most Christians don't know what god is being referred to in the phrases, "in God we trust" and "One Nation under God". The bible does say there are many "gods", in heaven and on earth. What "god" are they talking about that a Nation & Government allows the sins of idoltry, prostitution, etc. Just look at the back of a one dollar bill. Where do these images come from?
---Johnny on 1/23/07


#1 exzucuh, I didn't know that having Native American ancestry made you an historical authority. Study Ben Franklin & Thomas Jefferson and their interest in the Haudenosaunee. Remember that the 'founding fathers' created something 'unique' in American government. Where did they get the ideas of division of power? England had a monarchy, not much of an example of a representative government, is it?
---Ryan on 1/22/07


#2 exzucuh, The WOrd of God teaches a theocracy, which Israel failed at keeping; once again not very similar to a system with checks and balances in authority, where the people hold a substantial portion of power.
---Ryan on 1/22/07


#3 exzucuh, Enter the Haudenosaunee and their 'house of big brothers' & 'house of little brothers' (Legislative). They had a tribe responsible for the protection of the 'tribes of the long house' (Executive). And they instituted their women as judges (Judicial), intersting side note to the women judges, the main chief of the 'executive' branch could be overuled by the judicial.
---Ryan on 1/22/07


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**The Calvinist there gave Baptist or 'any other type' of protestant a suspended sentence, meaning a hangin.'**

Two corrections:

1. Baptists ARE Calvinists.

2. They were not hanged but merely flogged and driven out of the colony.
---Jack on 1/22/07


---Ryan on 1/22/07
I am an Native American and I have better sense than to believe that nonsense.
---exzucuh on 1/22/07


exzucuh_ Be glad you never arrived in New England colonies. The Calvinist there gave Baptist or 'any other type' of protestant a suspended sentence, meaning a hangin.' Yes the puritans came to America for religious freedom, as they did not have the right to persecute like the bigger religions did.

Sorry, The constitution does not once mention God. The Declaration of Independence mentions natures God, a deist concept.
---MikeM on 1/22/07


exzucuah, the founding fathers fashioned America after the Haudenosaunee indian tribes. Sure they injected some of their puritan and protestant ways but the structure was based on the Haudenosaunee way of government. Let's give the Native Americans the credit they are due. Besides America is nothing to GOd, Isaiah 40:17.
---Ryan on 1/22/07


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exzucuah, the founding fathers fashioned America after the Haudenosaunee indian tribes. Sure they injected some of their puritan and protestant ways but the structure was based on the Haudenosaunee way of government. Let's give the Native Americans the credit they are due. Besides America is nothing to GOd, Isaiah 40:17.
---Ryan on 1/22/07


exzucuh on 1/21/07 you claimed that our Constitution was based on Rodgers' document. I was taught that our Constitution and Declaration of Independence were patterned after the Magna Carta in England. Please cite a source for your claim, as I can't find any online.
---Madison1101 on 1/21/07


Bet you can't!
---Jack on 1/21/07
When this country was just colonies Rodger Williams the founder of the Baptist Church wrote the first Constitution for his Colony it was based on the word of God and religious freedom, the founders of this country patterned their constitution after Rodger Williams'.
---exzucuh on 1/21/07


Thomas Jefferson once said, "Christianity is the best friend government can have because it's the only religion that changes the heart." Does sound bad to me. Benjamin Franklin told the First Continental Congress, having problems with the constitution, to get on their knees and pray for God's guidance. They prayed and God guided them in writing our great Constitution.
---Nellah on 1/21/07


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**Ever heard of the 'dark ages when church state were mingled?**

You had the same thing in old Israel--and you have the same thing in modern Israel.
---Jack on 1/21/07


**America WAS founded on the Word of God.**

Leslie, can you please give book, chapter, and verse that formed the basis of our founding documents: the Declaration of Independence and Constitution?

Bet you can't!
---Jack on 1/21/07


Leslie- Is not democracy (republic)a 100% pagan secular concept in the first place, a product of pagan city-state Athens 500bC under Perecles? When America was founded by deists and freemasons as a secular nation (goverment) it was the Christian clergy that opposed vigoriously Jefferson and the others.. Ever heard of the 'dark ages when church state were mingled? The founding Fathers did. History 101-Church involved with state= dictatorship, always has, always will.
---MikeM on 1/21/07


Leslie-Where do you come up with this? "The Church as a governing power? "The church meant to be in the goverment"?? You run against Jefferson, Paine, Adams and the constitution, a constitution which does not mention God. Art. 6 "No religious test shall be required for public office." Are you a Dominionist or reconstructionist? (Somehow I suspect you will not try to defend your postings.)
---MikeM on 1/21/07


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While I do not know much about our founding fathers and their religious prefrences I find it interesting that spiritually red signifies the blood shed at Calvary and white signifies the righteousness of our Lord and that blue signifies healing, or salvation and liberty and freedom from sin and death and that stars can be seen as the children of Abraham, or those saved in Christ. Kind of looks like those who made that flag might have seen something our generation missed or perverted.
Frank
---Frank on 1/20/07


Leslie: Please tell me what historic document states what you are spewing about the church running our government. It certainly was not in Jefferson's writings.
---Madison1101 on 1/20/07


"Separation of Church & State" was never meant to be where God & government are separate. America WAS founded on the Word of God. The church (God) was meant to be in the government & schools as a governing power. The state was to not regulate how the church was run. This is what is meant by it. Taking God out, only allows Satan in.
---Leslie on 1/20/07


Have the words found in Isaiah 40:17 changed their meaning? Does God look at America any differently because we put phrases on our currency or in our pledges?
---Ryan on 1/18/07


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Jim, you are so articulate. Yes, everyone should have the love of Christ. what do you say about the ISSUE itself?
---MikeM on 1/18/07


MikeM.....may you find the Love of Christ.
---JIM on 1/18/07


I would not trust anything from that 'TBN.' I wonder at why anyone would take that station serious, or send them monies. When political, they are far, if not extreme right wing. I find them cartoonish, mocking God.
---MikeM on 1/18/07


I saw on TBN they are making a film on this subject using original documents from founding fathers. Can hardly wait. When pubic schools started they stated the goals to teach the Bible, morals, and then learning.
---Virginia on 1/15/07


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"Our Founding Fathers created America to be founded and ruled by God's Word"

-John Adams "America is no way founded on the Christian religion"

-Thomas Jefferson "The Bible belongs in Church, the constitution is the guide of the nation, not an indolent clergy."

Constitution doesent once mention God.

-The founders were deists and freemasons.

-Constitution, article6, "No religious test shall be required for those seeking office."
---MikeM on 1/15/07


God has been around alot longer than the constitution.
---tom2 on 1/14/07


The answer to your question is that as prophesy is fulfilled and evil and perilous times bring forth more ungodliness as iniquity abounds and the love of many waxes cold Christians are still fighting to keep God in a world that his word has declared will be destroyed with his return. Rather than fight to keep phrases preachers should be teaching their flocks to endure unto the end as the Lord said.
Frank
---Frank on 1/14/07


America fights these things that have to do with God, so they can live like they want to, NOT how God intends them to live. Humans have made themselves God, and want to rule the world. This is why America is SO cursed. Our Founding Fathers created America to be founded and ruled by God's Word, so we could be a Blessed & Free nation.
---Leslie on 1/14/07


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Jack: I was agreeing with you, I know you said it. Sorry, I won't agree with you in the future. It appears you don't like it.
---Madison1101 on 1/13/07


**We made it through a Civil War, and WWI, and WWII without our money and the pledge mentioning God. Kind of makes you wonder.**

If you will notice, I already said that--though the Pledge of Allegiance wasn't written until 1892.
---Jack on 1/13/07


the founders of America were washed in the blood believers who wanted a christian America and dont forget it. Its when America got away from the Bible that all the problems started. Theunbelievers want to change the true history amen!
---Donny on 1/13/07


Jack: How did our nation survive until the 1950s? We made it through a Civil War, and WWI, and WWII without our money and the pledge mentioning God. Kind of makes you wonder.
---Madison1101 on 1/12/07


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Tim LaHaye wrote a book "Faith of Our Founding Fathers" It covers the religious background of many of the signers of the Declaration of Independence and framers of our Constitution.
I had let my copy out and it was never returned.

The Left Behind Series and his books on Dispensational Theology and End Times are un-scriptural trash.
---Phil_the_Elder on 1/12/07


** jack,as with you and thomas jefferson personal beliefs are personal.whether you believe or jefferson believed is his decision,and yours.**

What Jefferson meant by God and Creator is more than adequately explained in his writings elsewhere, and he did NOT mean what Christians mean by these terms.
---Jack on 1/12/07


jack,as with you and thomas jefferson personal beliefs are personal.whether you believe or jefferson believed is his decision,and yours.the declaration does say creator,and a God ,or nature as God is a evolutionists type statement.GOD the creator made everything,the GOD of abraham,its called faith.
---tom2 on 1/12/07


we fightnot against flesh.we don,t win any wars jesus does.
---tom2 on 1/12/07


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History 101. The D of I was written by Jefferson, a deist. He called Jesus a 'great philosopher.' 'Natures God' was used a lot by the founding fathers, it was a deist term. 'Father of Lights' also used by Franklin,, was a Masonic term.
---MikeM on 1/11/07


**the constitution may or may not, but the declaration of independence,...**

There is no "preamble" to the Declaration of Independence.

"Creator," "nature's God", and "divine providence" are all capable of a deistic, generic "O great to whom it may concern" interpretation. That's how Jefferson, in any case, meant it. He certainly did NOT believe in the Christian God of Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.
---Jack on 1/11/07


the constitution may or may not, but the declaration of independence,which actually was signed by what is generally considered the founding fathers does have the word creator in its preamble.it was read and signed by all so I must asume all of them believed in GOD.or at the very least a creator.
---tom2 on 1/11/07


Amen to that Donna.
---JIM on 1/11/07


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One Nation Under God.... Take God out and we have One Nation Under.
Sounds prophetic doesn't it?
---Elder on 1/10/07


"Under God" was not added to the Pledge of Allegiance until 1954.

"In God we Trust" was not printed on the paper currencey of the USA until 1957.

Have we won any wars since then?
---Jack on 1/10/07


27 of the 56 Founding Fathers were known to be Freemasons. 17 were thought to be, and ONLY 8 were known not to be. They were deist in belief. They were well immersed in the Christian tradition, but their writings were strong against religion in goverment, esp. Jefferson and Paine.

The constitution does not mention God one time, it does say NO religious test shall be required for office, and the establishment clause is very clear.
---MikeM on 1/10/07


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