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Is It Works And Grace

Does salvation consists of works AND grace, or does salvation consist of grace alone, or does salvation consist of works alone. Do the two somehow go together or are they completely foreign to one another as concerned salvation?

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 ---Mima on 1/16/07
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Jim, the man repented to Jesus, he confessed that he was guilty and asked the Lord Jesus to remember him when Jesus goes back up to his kingdom, and Jesus granted his dying words.
---Eloy on 9/24/10


Eloy.....the thief on the cross.
What works did he do to merit paradise?
What commandments did he follow to merit paradise with Christ?
---JIM on 9/23/10


Jim, Jesus says where the workless go: "Then will the King say to them on his left hand, Depart from me, all you cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels: for I was an hungered, and you all gave me no food: I was thirsty, and you all gave me no drink: I was a stranger, and you all took me not in: naked, and you all clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and you visited me not. Truly I say to you, Inasmuch as you all did nothing for one of the least of these, you all did nothing for me. And these will go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal." Mt.16:27+ 25:31,41-43,45,46.
---Eloy on 9/23/10


Do nothings are condemned, not saved. All whom have no works of Christ, are all Christless. "If you all love me, my commandments keep. Not all that say to me, Lord, Lord, will enter into the kingdom of heaven: rather the one that Does the Commands of Father of me which is in heaven. And why call you all me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say? And then will I profess to them, I never knew you: depart from me, all you that work sinuousness." Jn.14:14+ Mt.7:21+ Lk.6:46+ Mt.7:23.
---Eloy on 9/23/10


The works we do are an outward manifestation of our faith. They allow others to see our faith.
Most importantly, the Lord said "ye shall be witnesses unto ME."
The life we live bears witness both in heaven and earth what we believe.
---Frank on 9/23/10




I believe James L fails to understand we are Justified by His Blood, and SAVED by His Life.

The blood can wash away my sin, but it cannot wash away m Old man or my old sin nature.

Crucified with Christ our identification with Christ in death and resurrection life **Romans 6-8 is The Gospel of Salvation. Why is it necessary to believe in his resurrection TOO. Is it because we are saved by His resurrection life.. Galatians 2,20-21 say we are!

JamesL only wants a partial salvation. Christ does not indwell the justified. AND Justification IS NOT the New Birth.
---kathr4453 on 9/23/10


Christ to do good works. The works we do is an effect of being a new creation in Christ.
---JIM on 9/22/10

Great!!! The NEW creature In Christ, has passed out of the old life and world. Old things pass away, behold ALL things become new.

We are told to put OFF the OLD and PUT ON the NEW. Moses put OFF the OLD coming out of Egypt,(the world and it's ways).



---kathr4453 on 9/22/10


That is not correct Eloy..
Scripture says we are saved by Gods grace.
God gives us the gift of faith to trust in Christ alone for our salvation. Being created in Christ to do good works. The works we do is an effect of being a new creation in Christ.
---JIM on 9/22/10


Ephesians 2:8-9--This shows that our salvation is obtained through our faith in the finished works of Jesus.
Philippians 2:12
"work-out" means to cultivate & this requires you working in the fear of the Lord.
---Rickey on 11/25/07

I like this.

Work out what GOD WORKS IN...Now are some here claiming to be saved and God is NOT working in you to will and to do???

THEN, Christ is NOT IN YOU, working through you!!!
---kathr4453 on 9/22/10


The Bible says we are saved by works with faith: and faith without works is dead.
---Eloy on 9/22/10




Leslie, Do nothings are condemned, not saved.
---Eloy on 9/22/10


//---Leslie on 9/20/10
The Bible says that we are saved by grace alone, through faith alone, in Jesus alone.//

Amen Leslie
---michael_e on 9/22/10


Mima, Salvation cannot be divided into different aspects of which WE can pick and choose what aspect we want and don't. It's not a cafeteria plan, or even a lay away plan!

Salvation is of the WHOLE person, Justification Sanctification and Glorification.

We are complete In Him. Now He who has begun a good work in you WILL continue until the day of Jesus Christ.

Jesus didn't come to save our rewards, but our souls!

Our SERVICE is rewarded, not our salvation, sanctification or glorification!
---kathr4453 on 9/22/10


The Bible says that we are saved by grace alone, through faith alone, in Jesus alone. If you try to do work for salvation, there is NO TRUE salvation, ONLY religion - which leads to Hell. Now once you get saved, your faith does require works, but there is NO need for work for salvation.
---Leslie on 9/20/10


Mima, the answer to your question is not in any of the previous replies.

Salvation is a broad term in the bible, and especially the NT.

saved (justified) by faith alone, all by itself, without works, by being convinced of Christ's atoning merits on our behalf (Rom. 4)

saved (newness of life, clear conscience) through baptism (Rom 6, 1 Pet 3:21)

saved (rewards) through faith PLUS works (James 2:12-3:1)

saved (resurrected) universally by virtue of Christ's resurrection. He was the firstfruits (Rom 5)

saved (co-heirs with Christ) through suffering, enduring (Rom chs 8 - 11)

so it depends on which aspect of salvation you are asking about.
---James_L on 9/19/10


Faith, Grace & works, salvation. It All works together like hand in glove.
---Lawrence on 8/21/10


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Ephesians 2:8-9--This shows that our salvation is obtained through our faith in the finished works of Jesus.
Philippians 2:12
"work-out" means to cultivate & this requires you working in the fear of the Lord.
---Rickey on 11/25/07


Tit 2:11 For the grace of God hath appeared, bringing salvation to all men,
Tit 2:12 instructing us, to the intent that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly and righteously and godly in this present world;
Grace comes before committment and works
Salvation by grace is followed by good works
---Edmond on 1/20/07


why do we get so caught up on this. it is Grace the gift from God that we can have a relationship with God. and that relationship should lead us to be obedient to him and serve those around us. we aren't living in christ if we don't see that it is by his grace that we can have communion with God, and we aren't in Christ if we don't show love and grace to others. IT is Both, 1st grace 2nd works= life in Christ.
---Jared on 1/20/07


(III.)Some want to [reap] God's benefits and blessings devoid of following His Word, His Commandments, devoid resisting/rejecting the flesh/world , that's is NOT what Jesus taught. Jesus said if any one tries to get to Heaven any other way then "HIS NARROW HOLY WAY"(refusing to deny self/take up ones cross following Him/His Word), they are a thief and a robber.
---Mrs._Morgan on 1/20/07


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(IV.)There are many "thief and robber" doctrines out there, doctrines devoid of the saving [precious Blood of Jesus](Hebrews 10:29), devoid of [true holiness/works that are the result of yielding to Holy Ghost](having only vain works of self, going through the motions, but not works that can stand God's fire when tried), devoid of [Truth] basically, doctrines with only a form but denying the power thereof, Paul warned from such [turn away]. God Bless!
---Mrs._Morgan on 1/20/07


(Ephesians 2:8-10)(Colossians 2:6-8)
(1 John 2:3-6)(1 Corinthians 3:13)(3 John 1:11)(James 2:26)(Matthew 13:30)(Matthew 15:8)(Revelation 2:26)(Revelation 3:18).
---Mrs._Morgan on 1/20/07


(II.) (Matthew 7:13-27)(Matthew 15:3-6,9-11,16-20)(Matthew 23:14-33)(1 Thess. 5:6)(2 Timothy 2:16)(2 Timothy 3:16,17)(Hebrews 6:1,2,11,12)(Jude 4)(Revelation 22:12)(Revelation 22:14,15).
---Mrs._Morgan on 1/20/07


catherine_berryhill, There're around(some being on this particular blog),But in very small numbers(relatively speaking),leaving the remaining popular"majority"ranging from lukewarm to cold which is apostate in Jesus' Eyes. Jesus'[true] sheep know each other,are the "hot ones",in one accord IN HIM.Jesus said he prefers one be Cold or Hot,but lukewarm is just plain nauseating,the bulk of the majority of the Church are just that. Boils down to fruits and reasoning.God Bless!
---Mrs._Morgan on 1/20/07


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Helen. James 2:27-24 Nevertheless, faith without works is dead and cannot save you being alone.
It is by works that faith was made complete in Abraham when he offered Isaak.
See then, that it is by works a man is justified and not by faith only. James 2:24
---john on 1/20/07


catherine b, They're around(some being on this particular blog),But in very small numbers(relatively speaking),leaving the remaining popular"majority"ranging from lukewarm to cold which is apostate in Jesus' Eyes. Jesus'[true] sheep know each other,are the "hot ones",in one accord IN HIM.Jesus said he prefers one be Cold or Hot,but lukewarm is just plain nauseating,the bulk of the majority of the Church are just that. Boils down to fruits and reasoning. God Bless!
---Mrs._Morgan on 1/20/07


Faith alone cannot save you and neither can works. Either one of these by themselves has no salvation in them but faith comes first or it isn't by grace.
---john on 1/20/07


We are saved by grace through faith.

Godly works are the results of God's saving grace in our lives.

We don't work to be saved. We work because we are saved.
---TDG on 1/20/07


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Helen: God who created you without you, will not save you without you
---Caring on 1/20/07


Charity==Any expression of love. Though I speak with tongues of angels, give my body to be burned, I have gift of prophecy, and all knowledge, and I have faith to move mountains (to do the impossible}.If I have not CHARITY I am nothing. 1 COR.CH. 13
---CATHERINE on 1/20/07


Caring - ("As per James and as per Christ, we have to perform to earn our salvation") -- The work that Jesus did on the Cross in the sacrificing of Himself for sin is a finished work and only faith in that will save you. Nobody can earn their salvation. "All our righteousnesses are as filthy rags" (Isaiah 64:6). Sin is what man needs salvation from, and sin has to be forgiven and washed away by the Blood of Jesus.
---Helen_5378 on 1/20/07


*If one was to read just Romans then they would think salvation is just grace and faith.*
---Ryan on 1/16/07


I don't see how one can misinterpret James. He couldn't have been any clearer if he tried. He said we are justified by faith AND works and not faith alone. I can see how people could misinterpret Romans, however.
---augusta on 1/20/07


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Caring, I respectfully disagree with you. "All our sinners, short of the Glory of God, Saved by Grace." What is Grace? I believe it is the love of God to be reconciled with the sinner. Jesus said, "Believeth in me and you shall be saved."
---Pat on 1/20/07


Therefore, we do not do "works" to be saved, we do works because "we are" saved and we "work" for the Glory of God.
---Pat on 1/20/07


**Augusta - Works to an unsaved person is very hard work and does not come naturally. When I say works naturally follow salvation, I mean it is a natural thing to do. Ok?
---Helen_5378 on 1/19/07**

I didn't say anything about the "unsaved", Helen, you did.

I asked if works come naturally then why are we instructed to DO them and CONTINUE in them.

Breathing comes naturally and not a single soul has to tell us to do it.
---augusta on 1/19/07


#1
How can we work to "please God"? We
are told God in John 4:24: "God is a Spirit:
and they that worship him must worship
him in spirit and in truth." All we can give
God is worship. Well; if worshiping is "work",
none claim an issue with that kind of work
Nana101606
---Nana on 1/20/07


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#2
What with the works? What works and for
whom? All the Law and the Prophets in two
commandments having none other greater
than them: Mark 12:29-31. Love and Love.
Nana101606
---Nana on 1/20/07


#3
I John 2:10: "He that loveth his brother abideth
in the light, and there is none occasion of stumbling
in him."
Matthew 5:23: "Therefore if thou bring thy gift to the altar,
and there rememberest that thy brother hath ought against
thee;"
Matthew 5:24: "Leave there thy gift before the altar, and go thy way; first be reconciled to thy

brother, and then come and offer thy gift."
Nana101606
---Nana on 1/20/07


#4
What could my brother possibly have against me?
One or both of two things, surely to be found in
words and deeds. The days of turtledoves and such
presentations are past and even now our bodies are
said to be the Temple of the Spirit; then our heart
must be the altar in which to present our "gift", the
fruits of our Love for our brother.
Nana101606
---Nana on 1/20/07


#5
Love is not afraid of work and even Love makes a
man untiring. I know a man who used to drive 1000
miles every weekend; just one way, to be with his
Loved one.
Nana101606
---Nana on 1/20/07


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Just testing the name block.
---NanaHusband on 1/20/07


PART TWO:
Romans 4:1-5, "For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not before God. For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness. Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt. But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness."
---BRUCE5656 on 1/19/07


Sorry I have to go with the OSAS on this one you cannot earn your salvation, You have tipped the balance scale and are over in the red. It is by Faith ye are saved but Faith being alone is dead meaning that there should be repenting,Baptizing, and a relationship with Christ, a broken and contrite spirit would also be working Faith, a personality change, a translation from darkness to light, something going on that gives a witness of Christ.
---exzucuh on 1/19/07


The works that are not acceptable to a Christian is Judaism, Judaism is the works we are not supposed to do, We are to do the Works of Abraham that are by Faith, They are not for salvation but to please God, Like Abraham we should hear God and Obey him, If you hear his voice harden not you heart, Obey him and enter in to your rest. It is the Law of the Spirit of Life in Christ Jesus, the law of liberty, If by which you walk you will be blessed in your deed.
---exzucuh on 1/19/07


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Caring,
"As per James and as per Christ, we have to perform to earn our salvation."

Ephesians 2:8-9, "For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast."
---BRUCE5656 on 1/19/07


Helen, nothing comes natural - it's us who have to do or fail to do whatever we do.

As per James and as per Christ, we have to perform to earn our salvation. Help the poor, love our neighbor, spread His Gospel, etc.

Some believe that by just saying I believe in Christ will be saved. That's a dangerous oversimplification of something they dangerously believe in.
---Caring on 1/19/07


Grace... grace.... grace....
---Pat on 1/19/07


Augusta - Works to an unsaved person is very hard work and does not come naturally. When I say works naturally follow salvation, I mean it is a natural thing to do. Ok?
---Helen_5378 on 1/19/07


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You will be judged by your works. whether they were GOOD or evil. IT is scripture, look it UP.Slothfulness, will be treated as wickedness. Cowardness, will not be welcome in the KINGDOM OF GOD. Whether you are a believer or not.
---CATHERINE on 1/19/07


MRS. MORGAN is right, too many christians, if indeed they are true christians, don't know JESUS. And I WONDER, where are they? I never see them around and about, and what in the world are they doing?
---catherine_berryhill on 1/19/07


When the gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things in the law, these not having a law become a law unto themselves. The law of the spirit of life in Christ has made us free from the law of sin and death. The works should just come naturally with the renewing and not to be worried about like the Galations did. Psalms says because they have no changes there is no life in them. The work is of God and by His Spirit.
Frank
---Frank on 1/18/07


Works will come naturally after salvation and are for a reward only.
---Helen_5378 on 1/17/07

If works "come naturally" we wouldn't have had to be instructed to continue in them.
---augusta on 1/18/07


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Matthew 25:26 His lord answered and said unto him, Thou wicked and slothful servant, thou knewest that I reap where I sowed not, and gather where I have not strawed:
Matthew 25:29 For unto every one that hath shall be given, and he shall have abundance: but from him that hath not shall be taken away even that which he hath.
Matthew 25:30 And cast ye the unprofitable servant into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.
---exzucuh on 1/17/07


greetings.The admittance into the kingdom is of no charge.However one must realize the effects of born again mentality upon the inductee.The spirit of truth will show the new kingdom dweller that he or she lives with a higher committment and obligation to the Father's will.To sit on the fence with the new wealth of eternal life is fruitless and the talents will be wasted.The Light will be most visible in the good for our fellows in all that we do when we labor for our Father in the kingdom.
---earl on 1/17/07


Catherine,
The first rule, of why not to use capital letters is because when on line, capitals are considered

yelling

. This is true on any fourm not just here.
---Bruce5656 on 1/17/07


Catherine,
"YOU WILL NOT GO TO HEAVEN, without good works"
And the scriptural basis fo that statement is?
---Bruce5656 on 1/17/07


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Salvation is by grace (through faith) alone. Jesus finished the work for sin on the Cross, with nothing to be added to it. "The just shall live by faith" (Galatians 3:11). Works will come naturally after salvation and are for a reward only.
---Helen_5378 on 1/17/07


CATHERINE, THERE IS A REASON WHY the third RULE in REPLY HINTS is:

3. Do NOT use all CAPITAL letters.

For the END USER ALL CAPITALS can be difficult to UNDERSTAND. WHEN USED FOR a single word, for EMPHASIS, it is ACCEPTABLE but, when you have STRINGS OF THREE OR FOUR WORDS IT becomes visualy unappealing. I HOPE YOU ARE NOT OFFENDED I'm just trying to help YOU COMMUNICATE ON THESE blogs BETTER:o)
---Ryan on 1/16/07


I shall repeat my self. YOU WILL NOT GO TO HEAVEN, without good works. SLOTHFULNESS, MY FRIEND, WILL BE treated as wickedness. NOW, LET me make myself clear, it's only for born-again believers. UNBELIEVERS, WELL, GOD KNOWS YOUR MOTIVES, AND THEY STINK.
---CATHERINE on 1/16/07


what that scripture is saying is we are saved by Grace not Judaism, serving the Law, but we are to do the works of Faith as Abraham did, when he heard God he obeyed him, Faith without these works is dead and no better than the faith of devils who Know God but will not work the works of Faith to obey him. You can only please God by Faith and faith is an Action word, the just shall live by faith meaning without working Faith you will die.
---exzucuh on 1/16/07


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#1 For proper understanding to your question we should look at the books of James and Romans. If one was to read just James then they would think salvation is based on works; if one was to read just Romans then they would think salvation is just grace and faith.
---Ryan on 1/16/07


#2 But when viewed as complimentary books we see James telling us the evidence of the Holy Spirit within you, that is spoken of in Romans, leads to obedience and obedience is works. It would be like trying to understand Revelation with Daniel; or the Gospels without the Torah.
---Ryan on 1/16/07


We are saved by grace throught faith not of works. We can not work to get or keep our salvation, but because of our salvation, we work for the Lord.

We work not to get saved, but work because we are save.
---Rev_Herb on 1/16/07


Grace by faith or else it is not by grace. But faith without works is dead. If your faith has no works it is not faith because there is no life. The works show the faith. Faith alone cannot save you but it comes first lest any should boast.
---john on 1/16/07


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Salvation is by grace alone. But, when you get saved, you will want to do good works and spread the gospel of Jesus Christ.
---Susie on 1/16/07


There are NO works you can do to be saved, ONLY by grace are we saved.
---Leslie on 1/16/07


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