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Should We Pray To Saints

As concerns praying; are we to pray to the Son or to some Godly saint? Who are we requested pray too? If we pray to the wrong person should we still expect to get a answer?

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I thought we had settled this a long time ago. What is the problem? ONLY PRAY IN THE NAME OF JESUS TO GOD THE FATHER. end of this case.
---CATHERINE on 1/29/07


I have found no evidence in the Bible that states that we ought to pray to saints. By praying to a saint and not GOD, your are violating 'EXODUS 20:3-4' - You SHALL have no other gods before me. You SHALL not make for yourself an idol in the form of ANYTHING in heaven above or in the earth beneath or in the waters below. You SHALL not bow down to them or worship them; for I, the Lord your GOD, am a jealous GOD.
---DePuTy on 1/29/07


Augusta: "can't omnipotent God open her understanding so that she (and other saints in heaven) can hear them? After all He opens the heavenly language of prophecies & tongues to interpreters, doesn't He?"

God will not go against His Word. It is impossible for Him to lie. It is written that prophecies and tongues are gifts of the HS not that He gives saints in heaven those abilities mentioned
---christina on 1/29/07


Eloy: ""Jesus says to him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man comes to the Father, except by me. For one God, and one Mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus." John 14:6; I Timothy 2:5"

AMEN!!!

Note that it says ONE mediator! We do not need any other such as Mary. Christ and His grace are sufficient, as is written.
---christina on 1/29/07


Darling: Read your Bible cover to cover and that will answer your question. "You will not make for yourself any image or sculpture of anything that is above in the skies nor anything that is on the earth, nor anything that is below, in the seas, nor you will bow down to them nor serve them, because I AM the Lord your God...."
Jesus:"I am the Way, the Truth and the Life, and noone comes to the Father if not by me". "There is salvation in no other name but Jesus."
---George on 1/27/07




Helen. A man have a body, soul, and spirit. However, if you want to say that the soul and spirit are one, then man is made up of the body and spirit. You right, the body is dead and awaits the resurrection, but the real you is not the body!

What happends to the unsaved after death? Do they go to hell suffering eternal torment?
---Ramon on 1/27/07


We are only to pray to God. Jesus set an example of how to pray.

Helen: The spirit is still sleeping until the first resurrection, until Jesus returns. For it's written that at the last trumpet blow the dead shall rise first and the living will be caught up with them.
---Steveng on 1/27/07


Darleen ::If you think that the Rcc is taking & swindling money from people what do you say about the existing Government & past ones who have put the country in Trillions of $ debt??Who is paying for THAT what do you have to offer to that for a coverup
---Emcee on 1/27/07


Helen, what I just read about the spirit going to heaven ect. I like it. Some preachers do not explain all of that, as well as you. Because, when I die, well, I want to see Jesus right away. Thank you.
---CATHERINE on 1/27/07


"Well can't omnipotent God open her understanding so that she (and other saints in heaven) can hear them? After all He opens the heavenly language of prophecies & tongues to interpreters, doesn't He?"

augusta, God cannot go against Himself. He has already revealed to us that calling up the dead is an abomination. Why would God go back on His word? Does He not want us to trust Him? Is He a liar?
---Kay6588 on 1/27/07




Never, ever should we worship saints or Mary. There is no answer that is Godly that does not come from the Lord. If He really is our Lord, and Savior, all glory goes to Him along.
---lisa on 1/27/07


"Dead people don't speak anymore"
I'll pass that onto Samuel, Moses, Elijah, the rich man, and Lazarus. Plus many who show communication in Revelation.
They may not be communicating with their earthly body but they certainly are able to communicate after death.
---john on 1/27/07


Every one is entitled to his opinion.In the absence of certain books omitted in The christian transalated bible.The opinions vary.Proof of the Pudding is that the apparations of Our Blessed Mother(ONLY Catholics) since others disown her.shows she, while dead to others is alive to us,those who believe in her & Her SON Jesus Our true God.To pray To & For the dead is Biblically correct.READ2 Mach.12;43-46alsoEccluis7;371 cor3;13-15
---Emcee on 1/27/07


Ramon - Only the spirit of a dead person lives on in Heaven. The body is dead, awaiting the resurrection. Read Billy's posts below; he gives quite a good explanation.
---Helen_5378 on 1/27/07


Augusta - In heaven things will be completely different from down here on earth. We will have no desire whatsoever for earthly things in Heaven, including thinking of our loved ones! We will be totally free!
---Helen_5378 on 1/27/07


.sugusta, it does not matter what sounds heavenly to you or not, because we are to stand on the truth and not upon what we think sounds heavenly, else you could make up all kinds of things that sound heavenly but are not scriptural, and this is what catholics have done. They have made up their own religion which has nothing to do with truth, whether their false teachings sound heavenly or not, they are still untrue.
---Eloy on 1/27/07


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Bruce: "Christina,
Notice that verse says "if two of you on earth agree"

Yes, that is why I posted it, it specifies 2 on earth...if you read my entire post,I quote Jack, then refute, starting with: "Wrong. Just because we can go directly to Jesus does not mean..."
---christina on 1/26/07


*Mary is NOT omniscient or omnipresent, so how could she hear and respond to so many prayers unless one attributes to Mary those characteristics which are Gods alone.*

Well can't omnipotent God open her understanding so that she (and other saints in heaven) can hear them? After all He opens the heavenly language of prophecies & tongues to interpreters, doesn't He?
---augusta on 1/26/07


'I bow my knees to the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, from whom the whole family in heaven and earth is named'.

Is Christ divided? Jesus said He who believes in Me, though he may die, he shall live. We don't cease being members of His body just because we die. The thought of living in heaven and not being able to pray for our loved ones when we could on earth doesn't sound very heavenly to me. And why would the heavenly saints be denied this precious gift that the earthly saints are blessed with?
---augusta on 1/26/07


Helen. Ok. If the soul/spirit of the saints goes to heaven afterdeath, and the body is what sleeps and waits the resurrection, the the crucial question is this: Are those in heaven awaiting their bodily resurection alive? Remember, one must separate the physical (body, outer men) and the spiritual (soul/spirit, inner men). Scriptures teaches the afterlife. If you believe this, then how are those in heaven not able to speak?
---Ramon on 1/26/07


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Christina,
Notice that verse says "if two of you on earth agree"
---Bruce5656 on 1/26/07


The diciples came to Jesus and ask Him to teach them to pray; His reply; "Father in Heaven Hallowed is your name" He also said; Whatever you ask the Father in MY name He will give it to you, If you ask anything in My name....He never once said pray to someone who has died, saint or otherwise. You must read the Gospels of Matthew, Mark, Luke and John.
---Shelby on 1/26/07


Jack: "So if you can go directly to Jesus, Agnes, you don't need to ask anyone to pray for you, do you? Right?"
Wrong. Just because we can go directly to Jesus does not mean we can't have someone pray with or for us..much in scripture supports this, such as going to elders for prayer...but always with the living here on earth. For ex:

Matthew 18:19
"Again, I tell you that if two of you on earth agree about anything you ask for, it will be done for you by my Father in heaven.
---christina on 1/26/07


Matthew, good point, Mary is NOT omniscient or omnipresent, so how could she hear and respond to so many prayers unless one attributes to Mary those characteristics which are Gods alone.
---christina on 1/26/07


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1st question. Neither. 2nd question. The Father 3rd question. No.

Jesus spoke to His disciples concerning the day of His resurrection & rejoining them, informing them that "In that day ye shall ask me nothing. Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whatsoever ye shall ask the Father in my name, He will give it you. At that day ye shall ask in my name; and I say not unto you, that I will pray the Father for you: For the Father Himself loveth you, because ye have loved me." Jn. 17:23,24,26,27
---Josef on 1/26/07


Ramon - When a Christian dies his/her spirit is immediately with the Lord. The body stays down here awaiting the resurrection.
---Helen_5378 on 1/26/07


"We are not omniscient beings, neither are angels or demons. They can't be at two places at once. The same would be in the mind. How in the world could Mary hear 100,000s of prayers every minute of every day? Please don't say well time slows down for them. That is not in the Bible. God hears and understands them all at the same time because he is omniscient(knows everything)."

Matthew, you're absolutely right.
---Kay6588 on 1/25/07


"Jesus says to him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man comes to the Father, except by me. For one God, and one Mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus." John 14:6; I Timothy 2:5
---Eloy on 1/25/07


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The answer is in Matthew 17:3-4. Moses and Elias appeared on the mountain and were speaking with Jesus. They were so tangible that Peter wanted to build tents for them. The saints are very much alive and are in communication with Jesus. Some saints, if worthy, are taken bodily into heaven. Early Christians did pray (make a request) to the saints, so did the Jews before them, thats good enough for me just remember that they are not God.
---Lorraine on 1/25/07


"Pray to the saints" I mean dead saints. We pray directly to out loving Father in the name of Jesus Christ. James (5:13-16 advices us also to ask prayers of alive saints. Only J.C. at the right hand of God, can intercede for us from heaven. God bless you Jack & Paul.
---Agnes on 1/25/07


We are not omniscient beings, neither are angels or demons. They can't be at two places at once. The same would be in the mind. How in the world could Mary hear 100,000s of prayers every minute of every day? Please don't say well time slows down for them. That is not in the Bible. God hears and understands them all at the same time because he is omniscient(knows everything).
---Matthew on 1/25/07


Helen.

" It is very simple. Once you are dead, you are dead, and you will no longer be able to speak!"

I thought you believe that those who died and are Christians go to heaven? Are you saying they can't speak in heaven? What do you really happens when one dies?

If they can't speak, how did they ask God a question? Why did God respond to someone who can't speak in the first place?
---Ramon on 1/25/07


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1/ augua9846

I hope you or Helen doesnt mind if I join your debate.

You had said So how did..."the dead martyrs... They are not praying. They are asking God a question."How did they "ask God a question" if they can't speak?

You are refering to "Rev 6:9,10", but this doesnt prove that dead saints are in heaven asking God anything. As I told Ramon, this is mediforical language.
---Billy on 1/24/07


2/ augua9846

Rev 6:9-10 is no more literal than Gen 4:10, saying that the voice of Abel cried from the ground. Did Abels voice cry from the ground or was this mediforical language? Weve got to understand what God is trying to tell us by saying these things in medifores. Ill use another example. I would say that we can agree that God is all knowing and all seeing, right? So in Gen 3:9, why did the all knowing God call to Adam and say, "Where art thou"? Did God know where Adam was or not?
---Billy on 1/24/07


3/ augua9846

God is showing Adam where he was "that he had sinned", not that God didnt know where Adam was. God speaks this way to show us something about ourselves. So what is it that God is trying to tell us in Rev 6:9-10?

God is telling us not worry about those that persecute us, and seek to kill us, because, Vengeance is mine; I will repay, saith the Lord "Rom 12:19". God is saying to be patient and not to avenge ourselves, "the Lord will repay". God bless
---Billy on 1/24/07


** People pray to the saints because they do not know they can go directly to Jesus Christ.**

So if you can go directly to Jesus, Agnes, you don't need to ask anyone to pray for you, do you? Right?

And therefore, you should not.
---Jack on 1/24/07


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**Absolutely NO. And this is all that I will say on this subject.**

Could it be because you can't back up your answer with book, chapter, and verse from Scripture, Catherine?

And just WHY should we believe a woman who says she hasn't been to church in three years?
---Jack on 1/24/07


I don't know if anyone has said this as I didn't read all the replies, but here it is straight for you. It is not praying to a saint, it is praying through them. Yes, we can go directly to Jesus or God with our prayers, but having someone else praying for you never hurt.
---Paul on 1/24/07


People pray to the saints because they do not know they can go directly to Jesus Christ. This should be a challenge or incentive to witness about the love and power of our living God. Remember James advice. James 5:13-16. Be kind to the people who do not know God.
---Agnes on 1/24/07


Helen: *Once you are dead, you are dead, and you will no longer be able to speak!*

So how did...

"the dead martyrs... They are not praying. They are asking God a question."

How did they "ask God a question" if they can't speak?

Also, you didn't answer my question about how the 24 elders got our prayers that you say God alone receives.

That's just another one of the verses some Protestants try to forget exists.
---augua9846 on 1/24/07


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BINGO Helen,

Youve just won a trip to Aruba! LOL

Sorry Helen, I was just kiding, but either way you are 100% right. God bless
---Billy on 1/24/07


+++ :-)

Good word, Catherine.
---anonymous on 1/24/07


Absolutely NO. And this is all that I will say on this subject.
---CATHERINE on 1/24/07


Ramon and Augusta - It is very simple. Once you are dead, you are dead, and you will no longer be able to speak!
---Helen_5378 on 1/24/07


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Ramon, man had perfect start, and prospect of endless life in the beginning. Ge 1:28,31. But disobiedience brought sentence of death. Gen 2:16,17; 3:17.19. Now sin and death pass on to all Adam's children what does Rom 5:12 say? I agree with billy, because the scripture you quote, Rev 6:11, will happen, but if not happened yet, they are still RESTING!!!!!!!!!
---Johnny_5 on 1/24/07


Ramon, By the way, what are you teaching, that you should flog a question with question?
---Johnny_5 on 1/24/07


Ramon

The reason I say to you about following context is because thats how you see to interpret scripture. Your going against your own methods of translating scripture. Did Peter follow any context of scripture to identify Jesus as the Son of God, or was it given to him by the Father? You say that you and others state scripture to prove your point, but your scriptures have fallen short of proving your point. Please try again. God bless
---Billy on 1/23/07


Billy.I and others stated Scriptures. Billy, please don't give me a lecture on "taken scripture out of context, and given it your own interpretation." Remember, it is you that states taking Scriptures out of context is "allow" if you are lead by the spirit (spiritually discerning). Context is not your style Billy!

It is you that give Scriptures your own interpretation because you feel you are "lead by spirit".I don't need explanation, just follow what the Bible states.
---Ramon on 1/23/07


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Billy.#2 The fact is, your doctrines are not in line with Scriptures. You can say that "God has shown me by His spirit." all you want, but if it isn't in line with Scriptures then God has reveal nothing to you. The devil can transform into a angel of light, deceiving those who he can (2 Cor 11:14). I need no explanation.

I haven't forgot about "Is the soul is immortal". I haven't had any time to post a response; my response is long. I will post it soon, Friday the very least.
---Ramon on 1/23/07


Ramon,

You said, You have not given any Scriptures to disprove that saints pray for us. Helen, you can't go around Scriptures

Ramon, you havent given any scripture to prove that dead saints pray for us. I would say that it is you who cant get around scripture. You have taken scripture out of context, and given it your own interpretation. Ramon, I pray that you will see the truth of this matter. No need for personal explanations, just give us the scriptures that support this. God bless
---Billy on 1/22/07


Helen. Yes, those in heaven doesn't need anything, but what we trying to explain to you is that the saints in heaven offer prayers on our behalf. They pray for us. They offer there intercession. And the Elders offer or give the prayers to God on his throne. Please read the Scriptures listed my me and others
---Ramon on 1/22/07


Helen. Please answer my questions. John mentions the prayers of the saints and all the saints. Prayers are not always asking for personal needs. Those in heaven are still saints and are member of the body of Christ. You have not given any Scriptures to disprove that saints pray for us. Helen, you can't go around Scriptures.
---Ramon on 1/22/07


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Ramon - I am perfectly aware that there are different kinds of prayers for different things. I said prayer for personal things because of the fact that those saints are in heaven and they no longer need earthly things.
---Helen_5378 on 1/22/07


*Augusta - The prayers of the saints in Revelation 5:8 are the prayers of the saints that were prayed while they were on earth*


Helen, you missed the point. If only God receives our prayers as you insist then how did the 24 elders get our prayers in the first place? Did they steal them from God, Helen? lol
---augusta on 1/22/07


Helen. #3. *They have been perfected!*

Helen, yes the saints in heaven are perfected. But that doesn't mean they can't make intercession prayers. Christ makes intercession prayers on behalf of us.

Again, Helen, if you believe that when one prays they are 100% asking for personal stuff, then give Book, Chapter, and verse that teach that please! There are different kinds of prayers. Scriptures teach that those in heaven are concerned and are aware of things happened on earth.
---Ramon on 1/21/07


Which Scriptures say the saints are vitally concerned about anything here on earth?

They're with the Lord. There's a great gulf between heaven and earth. Humans, God's creation, including Mary, aren't traveling back and forth or even looking in on our lives. The Holy Spirit is here, there's no need for humans, God's creation to look in on God's creation. That's God's job and He's more than capable. His eyes run to and fro. He can see everything and everyone. God's creation cannot do that.
---Louis on 1/21/07


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Ramon - Revelation 6:9-11 cannot be interpreted as dead saints praying. Those are the souls of the dead martyrs, those slain for the sake of Christ. They are not praying. They are asking God a question.
---Helen_5378 on 1/21/07


*Once in Heaven there is no more need to pray, for those saints no longer have any needs!*

Helen, that doesn't mean they can't not pray for us! Prayers are not always for personal needs! You can pray for others. The saints in heaven are vitally concerned about the events on earth (Rev 6:9-11, etc)Again, John mention the prayers of all the saints. If one die and go to heaven, does he/she cease in being a saint and thus cease in being a member of the body of Christ? How many bodies does Christ have?
---Ramon on 1/21/07


Helen.#2 Intercession may be defined as holy, believing, persevering prayer whereby someone pleads with God on behalf of another or others who desperately need God's intervention. Daniel's prayer in Dan 9 is a intercessory prayer, Jesus pray for his disciples (John 17:6-26, etc), and he Christ make intercession on behalf of us ( Heb 7:25)

Where you get the idea that when one prays, they are asking for personal needs? Give Book, Chapter, verse please!
---Ramon on 1/21/07


Augusta - The prayers of the saints in Revelation 5:8 are the prayers of the saints that were prayed while they were on earth, and those that are still being prayed by saints that are alive today. Once in Heaven there is no more need to pray, for those saints no longer have any needs! They have been perfected!
---Helen_5378 on 1/21/07


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augua9846, the saints in Revelation 5:8 are all believers, not just those who are in Heaven. The prayers are ours TO GOD.
---Kay6588 on 1/21/07


"Christians prayed to the saints before the bible even existed."

augusta, praying FOR is not the same as praying TO. And the scriptures were available for early Christians, so they knew that communicating with the dead was a sin.
---Kay6588 on 1/21/07


"Kay. First I want you know that I don't believe we should pray to the dead or ask them to pray for us."

Ramon, thats good to know. Thanks for clearing that up.
---Kay on 1/21/07


Helen. John mentions the prayers of all the saints. The prayers of the saints here on earth are join with the prayers of those in heaven awaiting their resurrected bodies.

Since you believe that saints who died goes to heaven then the crucial question is this: How many bodies that Christ have? If a saint dies and go to heaven, does he/she cease in being a "saint", and thus cease in being a member of the "Body of Christ"?
---Ramon on 1/20/07


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Ramon - Where in Scripture does it say that the dead saints in heaven pray for us?
---Helen_5378 on 1/20/07

"And when he had taken the scroll, the four living creatures and the twenty-four elders fell down before the Lamb, each holding a harp, and with golden bowls full of incense, which are the prayers of the saints"

Re 5:8
---augua9846 on 1/20/07


Christians prayed to the saints before the bible even existed.

Cyprian of Carthage wrote in 253 A.D.

Let us remember one another in concord and unanimity. Let us on both sides of death always pray for one another. Let us relieve burdens and afflictions by mutual love, that if one of us, by the swiftness of divine condescension shall go hence first our love may continue in the presence of the Lord, and our prayers for our brethren and sisters not cease in the presence of the Fathers mercy
---augusta on 1/20/07


Psalms 115:17 The dead praise not the Lord,neither any that go down into "silence". Ec 9:5 For the living know that they shall die:but the "dead know not anything",neither have they any more a reward;for the memory of them is forgotten. Ec 9:10 whatsoever thy hand findeth to do,do it with thy might; for there is no work,nor device,nor "knowledge",nor "wisdom" in the grave whither thou goest. Verses show,no awareness in dead, they can't pray/intercede for others.
---Darlene_1 on 1/20/07


Ramon, Your statements are not scriptural. Can you give me scripture that proves that dead saints are in heaven, or even that the dead can pray. Please dont try to use "Rev 6:9,10", because this doesnt prove that there are saints alive in heaven, "its a medifor", we must take the whole of Gods Word to get our answers. Ramon, Ive been looking forward to your responce on "Is the Soul Immortal" blog. God bless.
---Billy on 1/20/07


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** Ramon - Where in Scripture does it say that the dead saints in heaven pray for us?**

Where does it say they DON'T?

Give Book, Chapter, and Verse that say so.
---Jack on 1/20/07


Ramon - Where in Scripture does it say that the dead saints in heaven pray for us?
---Helen_5378 on 1/20/07


Ramon, Your statement about Rev 8:3-4, saying that there are saints in heaven doesnt hold water. Where does it say that these saints are in heaven? The prayers of living saints reach Gods altar all the time "Acts 10:1-4". One doesnt have to be living in heaven for there prayers to be offered to Him. Could we please stay true to Gods Word? God bless.
---Billy on 1/19/07


I forgot to mention that prayers for the dead were a regular part of the Synagoge services in the time of Jesus, and He NEVER said anything against the practice. In fact, He showed His approval by attending them and even taking a leading part in them.

Furthermore, the direct invocation of the Angels and departed is in the Bible. Bet you don't know where.
---Jack on 1/18/07

You want to show the Scriptures on that, and don't give me the dead sea scrolls, KJV only
---exzucuh on 1/19/07


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Kay. First I want you know that I don't believe we should pray to the dead or ask them to pray for us. The Scripture I gave said "the prayers of all the saints". All saints mean all here and those who passed on and who souls are in heaven. The saints in heaven do pray for us, they are concerned about the things on earth. The saints in heaven already pray for us, thus they is no need to ask them to pray for us.
---Ramon on 1/19/07


Ramon, Revelation 8:3-4 says nothing about dead believers praying for us. Even if they do pray for us, its not because we contacted them and asked them to. A believer who is in Heaven will most certainly not sin against God by communicating with us. The prayers that the angel had were all of our prayers TO GOD. They weren't our prayers to the dead.
---Kay on 1/19/07


Kay. My first post is in the blog called should we Pray to Mary.Read Revelation 8:3-4

The saints in heaven are vitally concerned about the events on earth. Scriptures does teach that saints in heaven does give prayers [intercession] on behalf of us.
---Ramon on 1/19/07


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