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Why Are We In Iraq

I am in Iraq today so speak from experience. We have taken an uneasy interest in this country while other countries with similar circumstances go unnoticed. Is it oil or what other reason?

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sometimes there is not a good ending, but there are potentially worse endings if we simply allow evil to go unpunished or unanswered. ---chris on 10/29/08


So very true, Chris... explain that to the 100,000 dead civilians or their families.
---NurseRobert on 10/30/08


If the only way we measure success in Afghanistan is whether it is a peaceful, stable democracy 5 or so years from now, I think you are probably right NurseRobert. However, I also believe that if no one ever has to pay a horrible price for their horrible actions (like the Taliban's support of Bin Laden's murderous terrorism) then it simply allows evil to spread and for innocents to be hurt. Sometimes there is not a good ending, but there are potentially worse endings if we simply allow evil to go unpunished or unanswered. In many ways, the fact that there is so much evil in so many different spots in the world shows how much the nations and people of the world allow it to be a part of their neighborhoods, their governments and their world.
---chris on 10/29/08


Chris, your assessment of NurseRobert's position seems to be correct.
Today it might be impossible to judge the fruit of our deeds in Irag.

Why did God commanded the Israelites to kill everyone including children of their enemies?
What happened when Israel disobey?
Israel thought one boy left alive couldn't hurt anything.
Disobedience wasn't felt until 50 yrs later.

Iraq may become another Iran.
But, seeds of hope have been planted in their hearts.
This seed alone can destory the hardness of the Leaders, which America could not.
The Jewish leaders thought they stamped out the sect of Jesus by Killing Jesus. Would they have imagine that sect being over 1 billion strong today?

God is always in charge.
---Nicole on 10/29/08


Chris, The problem is, we tried to do everything. And in the end, we may end up with nothing. I do agree that we should do what you can where you can, when you can." I question the choice of where we went and why we went there. Assuming that to goal was to take out Hussain, we used a sledge hammer to kill a fly.

I do not beleive that American will ultimately win in Iraq or Afghanistan. We may set up a democratic government in Iraq, make sure they have a nice constitution and then we will leave. And a year from then, or 5 years, the hardliners will overthrow the government and we will have another Iran.
---NurseRobert: on 10/29/08


Chris #2. Afghanistan will go the same way. The Russians spent years there and ultimately left in defeat (interestingly enough, it was the US that supplied the weapons for Bin laden and his group to defeat them).

There is so much need in the world. We went the wrong way with this one.

---NurseRobert on 10/29/08




NurseRobert: Your point is interesting. It raises the concept of "is it better to do nothing if you can't do everything". In many situations, it is best to do what you can where you can, when you can. If I can't save every starving person now doesn't mean I shouldn't try to save the one that I can right now. If I wait till I have the ability to right all wrongs before I right any wrong, no wrong will ever be righted. Our biggest problems in Iraq are really similar to Afghanistan. America can win a war, but we as humans are very poor at changing other people's character, thought processes, values, etc. and that is what is often necessary to successfully bring forth a peaceful, stable and productive country after the war.
---chris on 10/28/08


You know, Nicole, this is getting us no where. You and I will never agree on this issue. Perhaps we should just agree on that and move on to other things.
---NurseRobert on 10/28/08


I beg to differ, Saddam had over 10 years and 17 U.N res. against him, but with the help of Russia, Germany, France & others he was able to continue thumbing his nose at them/US. ---Duane_Dudley_Martin on 10/27/08

So, then, Dudley... why didn't we attack Russia, Germany, France and others??

Saddam was still in NON compliance of those 17 U.N res....

So since the US is in NON compliance with certain UN resolutions, should other countries be allowed to attack us??
---NurseRobert on 10/28/08


1. It is largely oil, but not necessarily in any evil way. Iraq originally invaded oil rich Kuwait.
2. Bush1 erred when winning the first gulf war, instead opting for a negotiated peace.
3. The treaty allowed our aircraft to patrol zones to protect people and neighboring countries.
4. The treaty allowed for inspections to help prevent WMD.
5. Saddam targetted our planes, violating the treaty
6. Saddam prevented inspections for WMD, violating the treaty.
7. Clinton failed to enforce the treaty
8. Bush2 decided to enforce the treaty and because the UN President, France, Germany and Russia were getting money from Saddam, they sided with Saddam, not us.
---grant on 10/28/08


We sent in the swat team without really knowing what the threat was.

There is little you could you can say to me that would change my believe that this war was wrong from the beginning.
---NurseRobert on 10/27/08


Yes I watch Fox news!
And proud of it as well.

I don't need the media to tell me how to vote, act, to be happy or mad.

I can figure it out on my own.

Very little I can say is correct.
Until CNN or NBC tells you to be mad at the Terrorist and not us, you won't.
---Nicole on 10/27/08




NurseRobert_I beg to differ, Saddam had over 10 years and 17 U.N res. against him, but with the help of Russia, Germany, France & others he was able to continue thumbing his nose at them/US.(for over 2 yrs, G.W Bush tried to get tougher Res.'s from the U.N)!
This is after he shown that he HAD & was willing to use his WMD's on people, just ask the Iraqi's, Kurds & Iranians!
So, AFTER 911 and we went to Afghan to wipe out the Taliban, Saddam was still in NON compliance of those 17 U.N res and sense we were already in the area, we decided to kill 2 birds w/1 stone(sorta speaking) and KEEP the War on Terror in their backyard, NOT ours!
Strategic masterpiece that has kept US a Nation
---Duane_Dudley_Martin on 10/27/08


Nicole, maybe the problem is you got all your information from TV. Fox News, right?

I really don't want you to "gather documents." It was a rhetorical statement. You cannot produce what does not exist.

If you called the police they would not send a swat team to take him out. They would go to his house, and find out for themselves if he was a threat or not. We didn't do that in Iraq. We sent in the swat team without really knowing what the threat was.

There is little you could you can say to me that would change my believe that this war was wrong from the beginning.
---NurseRobert on 10/27/08


Nevertheless, Iraq is to play an important part of end time events as spoken of in Ezekiel and Zechariah.
---Steveng on 10/27/08


NurseRobert, I was living during 2002 and 2003. I watched very little Television.
But, even in the little times I saw and heard President Bush demanding to enter Iraq.
The Democrats asked him to address the matter with the UN.

I will not lie to you. I have no intention of gathering documents for you.
Because if you didn't watch tv during 2002 and 2003, I don't think you will believe any thing I show you.
If you are looking for an offical document, you might be correct.

Sir, if my neighbor yells out "I am going to shoot you in 10 minutes" at me. And he has been hostile in the last years to me, I do not need a certified letter from him telling me he will shoot me.
His words are good enough for me to call 911.
---Nicole on 10/24/08


obewan: "The major Iraqi source used by the CIA (codenamed Curveball) admitted to telling lies about WMD to advance his own interests!"

And I suppose you were one of the original people to author the report? You are as much a part of the conspiracies surrounding this situation by spreading it. How do you know that Curveball wasn't an attemt to discredit Bush and his administration? I suppose you always believe the CIA and the FBI thinking that they can't do any harm and would never lie.
---Steveng on 10/24/08


Obewan--

None of the hundreds of believers in UFO's has any physical evidence. We had abundant evidence of WMD's in Iraq, including the fact that they had used them at least 10 times already.

The fact that a few inspectors, in a relatively short time, and with plenty of advance notice to the Iraqis, found none is not all that convincing.

There has been some evidence found during the course of the war...but it received little publicity due to the unpopularity of the war.
---Donna66 on 10/24/08


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">>Don't know where the WMDs went, the consensus was he had them.<<"
------------------------------------------


Donna: What data would you cite as a consensus? The only "consensus" data I am aware of pertains to the BEFORE invasion WMDs. They were FOUND and dealt with which only proves that the U.N. inspections were working and should have continued as Hans Blix requested.

Sure there are all kinds of conspiracy theories about tractor-trailers and empty jetliners, but where is the proof? Would you cite consensus on the UFO stories about the Roswell abductions and Area 51 too? The major Iraqi source used by the CIA (codenamed Curveball) admitted to telling lies about WMD to advance his own interests!
---obewan on 10/24/08


Nicole... Show me the document where congress declared war. You cant, it does not exist..
---NurseRobert on 10/24/08


Don't know where the WMDs went, but the consensus was he had them.

Sandy Berger- 2/18/98 He will rebuild arsenal of weapons of mass destruction. And some day, some way, I am certain he will use those weapons as he has 10 times since 1983.

Joe Biden-8/14/2002
We know he continues to attempt to gain access to additional capability, including nuclear capacity.

Hillary Clinton- Sept 2002- I can support the
presidents action because I think it's in the best interest of our long-term security.

Jay Rockefeller (D-WV) 10/02 We've always underestimated the progress he's been able to make in the development of WMDs.
---Donna66 on 10/23/08


NurseRobert: "There is NO proof..."

One thing for sure, we know he (Hussein) had it and used it on his own people. Traces of WMD were found in the heads of dozens of missiles. Even a small flask of chemicals or biologicals would be considered WMD when it can kill large numbers of people and a small flask can be hidden anywhere in Iraq without ever being found. He buried two German made mobile chemical labs in the desert. He did have chemicals purchased from France to make WMD, but that, of course, isn't the same as WMD. Hussein hid his jet fighters in Iran in the Gulf War (but Iran never gave them back). And Hussein had plenty of time to hide many things between the time Bush says he was going to attack and the time we did.
---Steveng on 10/23/08


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What would happen if we didn't attack Iraq?

Hussein would continue to finance terrorist (remember: he was giving up to $35,000 to each of the suicide bomber's families). He, and you Christians should think about this one, would continue to murder his own people. The UN resolutions would still be unresolved. Plus a few other items of interest.

But let's say that Bush did go to war for oil, he was only doing it for the benefit of the United States for most of our products are 'made of' (all our plastics) and 'manufactured' using oil. And, of course, don't forget we manufacture your gasoline from oil. Besides, The US only imports a small fraction of oil from Iraq (I think only 3%).
---Steveng on 10/23/08


And Blair had to admit they did not exist, and that the "evidence" was made up.
---alan_of_UK on 10/23/08


Yes, ignorance is bliss!!!---Nicole 10/22/08

Nicole, I'm glad to see you're blissful.

There is NO proof he "hid" any WMD.---NurseRobert 10/23/08

You forgotten what the topic was about within one day.

Thats the point, Nicole, we NEVER declared war, we just went in and decimated the country.---NurseRobert 10/20/08

Where were you between Sept 2002 to March 2003?
Bush has been trying to go into Iraq all that time. But, you and your friends demanded Bush to go to the UN which gave Saddam time to hid his WMD!

Yes, ignorance is bliss!!---Nicole on 10/22/08

Remember now?
It is about your ignorance of saying we didn't declare war.

Please stay focus.



---Nicole on 10/23/08


Yes, ignorance is bliss!!!
---Nicole on 10/22/08

Nicole, I'm glad to see you're blissful.

There is NO proof he "hid" any WMD. Bush didn't have it, Rice didn't have it, Cheney and his group didn't have it, the pentagon didn't have it, and YOU certainly don't have it.
---NurseRobert on 10/23/08


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Actually it happened like this, Japan declared war on Britian and USA on Dec 7,1941 and attacked Pearl Harbor bringing USA into WWII. Japan killed 2400 Americans at Pearl Harbor and only 100 Japanese died. President Roosevelt mobilised American troups that very day Dec 7,1941,to fight Japan. On Dec 8,1941 Roosevelt signed the official paper of Declaration of War against Japan. Germany,Italy,and Japan were Allies therefore Germany and Italy declared war on USA on Dec 11,1941.
---Darlene_1 on 10/23/08


As a bit of a pedantic guy, I would say there is a difference between going to war and declaring war.
As I recall no declaration of war was made before Bush & Blair invaded.
Just as Japan did not declare war before the pearl Harbour attack.
---alan_of_UK on 10/23/08


Nicole said: We declared war on Iraq because they were not sticking to the peace deals made in the early 90's.

Thats the point, Nicole, we NEVER declared war, we just went in and decimated the country.

Furthermore, if you had READ any of the my posts, you would know that I have spoke out against these others.

Your epitomize the saying "Ignorance is Bliss"
---NurseRobert on 10/20/08

Where were you between Sept 2002 to March 2003?
Bush has been trying to go into Iraq all that time. But, you and your friends demanded Bush to go to the UN which gave Saddam time to hid his WMD!

Yes, ignorance is bliss!!!
---Nicole on 10/22/08


I apologize ...again brother, lol.
I am getting to the point where I would rather talk about things like this than dispute other things of God.

As for my personal opinion on why we are at war... I think it is vengence on Bush's part.
This is just hearsay for all I know but some say that the Iraqis put a hit on the Bush.
Anyway, I think we should finish our business over there and get back to taking care of America. We need to get back to what we stood for, GOD.
I bet our forefathers are just rolling in their graves at what has happend to their hard work and suffering. They came here, after all, to get away from unfair taxes and to worship God in Spirit and in truth.
---ginger on 10/22/08


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Good post, Ginger. Some people have short memories.

In some ways, I think, the present war in Iraq is an extension of the earlier war, which we entered at the request of the Saudis (they feared that if Iraq succeeded in taking over Kuwait, there would be no stopping them. They feared for their own oil fields) Of course, faithful allies that they are, they talked us into it, then stood back and let us do all the fighting.

After Iraq was driven out of Kuwait there was some controversy as to whether we should stop there or "finish the job" by taking out Saddan Hussein. I think it was the UN that objected so stongly, that we gave up on the latter idea.
---Donna66 on 10/21/08


I humbly apoligize nurseroberts, my bad, sister. which iraq war are we talking about here?---ginger on 10/21/08

NP, Ginger... Uh... btw, Its Nurse Robert.
And while I might be your brother, I'm certain Im not your sister:D
---NurseRobert on 10/21/08


I humbly apoligize nurseroberts, my bad, sister.
which iraq war are we talking about here?
If it is the one going on(Iraqi Freedom) , yes we did declare war on them. Doesn't anybody remember all of congress getting together to back the President on the osama and iraq thing? I do because it was televised.
Look up the H.J. Resolution signed October 16, 2002. That gives you all the details.
The first iraq war is actually the Persian gulf war and yes we declared war on them too.
I have heard it said that the US will not do a repeat of what they did in vietnam. We didn't declare war on them or Korea. That is why they are called conflicts instead of wars.
---ginger on 10/21/08


Nicole said: We declared war on Iraq because they were not sticking to the peace deals made in the early 90's.

Thats the point, Nicole, we NEVER declared war, we just went in and decimated the country.

Furthermore, if you had READ any of the my posts, you would know that I have spoke out against these others.

Your epitomize the saying "Ignorance is Bliss"
---NurseRobert on 10/20/08


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Tinger said: "no nurseroberts, we didn't declare war on Germany and the axis powers first. They declared war on us as a retaliation to the US declaring war on Japan."

Uhh.. Ginger... thats what I said... please go back and re read my post.
---NurseRobert on 10/20/08


no nurseroberts, we didn't declare war on Germany and the axis powers first.
They declared war on us as a retaliation to the US declaring war on Japan. That is how it happened. I have researched several sites and they all say this. So if you could supply your reference and I will check them out myself, that would be great!

As for why we are in Iraq, I think it is a vengence issue. But that is my opinion, I am not sure waht the real reason is.
---ginger on 10/20/08


My family is from Missouri, You gotta "Show Me"!
My history book say's he did'nt, So show me!
---Duane_Dudley_Martin on 10/17/08


Dudley... Eisenhower hoped to stop the spread of communism in South Vietnam sent American troops, as well as money, to advise the South Vietnamese military in its war against the South Vietnamese revolutionaries and their North Vietnamese supporters. This is what led us into the war.
---NurseRobert on 10/17/08


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Actually, Donna and Ginger, the US did declare war on Germany and Italy after they declared war on us. If you google declaration of war on Germany, you can read the text of the resolution.
---NurseRobert on 10/17/08


NurseRobert, I think you are confused with the words 'declared war'.

No need for us to tell Japan, we are at war with them.
The day before, Japan let us know they wanted to fight us.
The one who starts the war is the one who declares war.

We declared war on Iraq because they were not sticking to the peace deals made in the early 90's.

Why don't you waste your energy on Sudan for speading slavery and killing their Christian Citizens.
Or North Korea for not feeding their citizens to buy more weapons.
Plenty of Countries that needs your voice.
Or is it because the conflict is across the water and doesn't harm you any?
Your complaint of the USA is not as loud as your silence of other God's children dying!
---Nicole on 10/17/08


Nicole_YLBD means: Your Loving Brother Duane,
I was told by a Jewish brother not too long ago that it means two breads/two loaves of bread(?) in Hebrew, can't remember which, However "here" it means,
Your Loving Brother Duane
---Duane_Dudley_Martin on 10/17/08


I apologize brother, i could not help myself, I like the study of history, too.

Yes, you are right, the US did not enter the war in Europe at that time.
We were only funding the war with supplies and money. Some American men chose to go to Europe and join up on their own, too.

We declared war on Japan on Dec. 8th.

And actually we did not declare war on Germany. Germany & Italy declared war on us on Dec. 11, 1941.
Then Dec 13, 1941 Hungary & Bulgaria declare war on U.S.

So really the US got dragged into the war in Europe by Hitler & his cronies.

In spring 1942, the 8th Army Airforce started arriving in the United Kingdom.
---ginger on 10/17/08


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This IS a historic FACT:
On July 15, 1958, he sent just under 15,000 soldiers to Lebanon (a combined force of Army and Marine Corps) as part of Operation Blue Bat, a non-combat peace keeping mission to stabilize the pro-Western government. They left the following October.

In addition,
Eisenhower EXPLORED the option of supporting the French colonial forces in Vietnam who were fighting an independence insurrection there. HOWEVER, Chief of Staff Matthew Ridgway *DISSUADED* the President from intervening by presenting a comprehensive estimate of the massive military deployment that would be necessary.

* to advise (a person) against something,
to advise against(an action)

Who's making stuff up as they go?
---Duane_Dudley_Martin on 10/17/08


Ideology.
If it wasn't ideology why would be build the world's largest embassy in Baghdad as opposed to Beijing or even London? I can't believe that fact has not been part of the presidential campaign debate.
Folks, the fix was in, and the only reason we spent $500 million on an embassy is because we plan to stay in Iraq to secure oil and a revenue stream for private contractors. Its not like we plan to grant Iraq or Iran MFN? The wisdom of a western embassy in the middle of a billion hostile muslims will be debated for decades.
It cannot be the most effective way to spread the gospel. Besides if we just wanted to rid the world of despots, Kim Jong makes Hussein look like a choir boy. Should we invade North Korea next?
---larry on 10/16/08


Nicole and Alan of UK.-

GERMANY DECLARED WAR on the United States four days after the Dec 7th bombing of Pearl Harbor. (We did not declare war on Germany). Guess that would make the date the U.S entered the war officially Dec 11th... Not BEFORE Pearl harbor as I mistakenly said earlier...I knew the two occurrences were just days apart.

Early in the War, The U.S. stayed neutral, but by Jan 1941 the U.S. had prepared their military for the possibility of having to fight in Europe. The attack by Japan was a surprise, however.

Strong Axe -- I know that Jews were turned away from the U.S. at first. Rumors of the death camps were scoffed at. Only after Germany was defeated did we discover the rumors to be tragically true.
---Donna66 on 10/16/08


Check your facts, Nicole.

We declared war on Japan on December 8, 1941

We declared war on Germany and Italy AFTER they declared war on us on December 11.
---NurseRobert on 10/16/08


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The USA didn't enter WWII until Pearl Harbor. They could not enter before due to a Nonintervention Policy which kept them from doing anything or getting involved in other Countries fights until they were directly attacked themselves,then they were free to get involved and fight those who had attacked them. That meant becoming part of the Allied Forces fighting in WWII. The attack on Pearl Harbor by the Empire of Japan on December 7,1941 brought the USA into WWII just like Alan said and not before.
---Darlene_1 on 10/16/08


"NurseRobert_KEEP in mind it was the Dems. that got us into Vietnam and IT WAS a Repub. that got us out. So, Now what's your point?"

Excuse me? I didn't realize that Eisenhower was a democrat. He was the first to commit us to South Vietnam.

My point, Iraq, Iran, Syria & others ARE a Direct threat to America(YOU/ME/US)!
This ISN'T Vietnam. WW2, WW1, the Civil War, the War of 1812 or the Revolutionary War.

"This IS a War for OUR very Survival as a Nation that use to Love God,"

Hogwash... Iraq was not then, nor is it now a "direct threat" to the United States. Furthermore, I don't see us attacking either Iran or Syria.

Do you make this stuff up as you go along?
---NurseRobert on 10/16/08


YLBD--DDD, What does YLBD mean?

Nicole rewrites history: They were killing millions of their own citizens in Russia, Germany and other selfish Countries...
Russia was on our side during WWII. Japan and Germany declared war on us first.---NurseRobert

Japan declared war on us first.
We declared war on Germany.
No Germany planes around Pearl Harbor that day.
Alan is correct about Russia and Germany.
Germany turned on Russia.
Vladimir Lenin and Joseph Vissarionovich Statin ring a bell to you?
They killed MILLIONS OF their own Russian citizens.
Hitler killed Germany Jews and Retarded or Mentally sick Jewish and nonJewish Germany's citizens.

So who is rewriting History?
Or WHO CAN'T REMEMBER History?
---Nicole on 10/16/08


Thanks Ginger ... But I wanted Donna to answer.

Presumably she will be able to tell me that the US entered the European war before December 7th 1941

But I think not!!
---alan_of_UK on 10/16/08


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NurseRobert_KEEP in mind it was the Dems. that got us into Vietnam and IT WAS a Repub. that got us out.
So, Now what's your point?

My point, Iraq, Iran, Syria & others ARE a Direct threat to America(YOU/ME/US)!
This ISN'T Vietnam. WW2, WW1, the Civil War, the War of 1812 or the Revolutionary War.

This IS a War for OUR very Survival as a Nation that use to Love God,
I see most American's choosing Evil over Good,
I see America walking the path of destruction as Sodom & Gamorrah did right up to there overthrow by the hand of God.
YLBD
---Duane_Dudley_Martin on 10/16/08


alanofuk, Pearl Harbor- December 7, 1941.
---ginger on 10/16/08


"We WON 95% of the battles in Viet-Nam"
And your point is? Total cost of the war:
$133 billion
Americans: 58,000 dead, 300,000 wounded.
North Vietnam: 1.1 million dead, 600,000 wounded.
Civilain Dead: 2 million.
And in the end, South Vietnam still fell to the north> We may have won the battles, but we lost the war.

"IT was the Liberal Media"
Such a typical right wing response. By the end of the war, the majority of Americans DID not support the war.

"Viet-Nam wasn't a threat to the WORLD,"
At the time we were there we were told it was.

How similar.....
---NurseRobert on 10/16/08


Donna ... Please give the date that the USA entered the European War.

Please give the date of Pearl Harbour.
---alan_of_UK on 10/16/08


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Donna66:

The President wanted to fight against the Nazis (and may have been running clandestine operations in Europe at the time), but the United States did NOT declare war against Germany until immediately AFTER the attack on Pearl Harbor (Dec. 7, 1941), which was two years after the start of the war. This was the result of a Japanese act, and NOT actions by Germans.

Yes, there were were Nazi death camps, but that has nothing to do with US involvement in the war. And the US did turn away Jewish refugees from Nazi Germany (one 1939 incident is chronicled in the film Voyage of the Damned)
---StrongAxe on 10/16/08


StrongAxe, slavery was the 100% reason.

The North had many sources of wealth. Including making money by selling slaves to the South.
The South's only making money was COTTON.
Who PICKED these cotton?

The Southern Master could not make money if he had to pay a fair wage to the Negro Man.
If the Slaves were set free, the Southern Economic system would break!
It was money that fueled the Civil War.
But, the Money was based on paying another human being for his due share or not!
The Southern men were not stupid.
As I said before.
If Lincoln never suggested he was going to free the Slaves the WAR WOULD HAVE NOT OCCURRED!
Common Sense tells everyone that SLAVERY WAS THE SOLE CAUSED!
---Nicole on 10/15/08


Strong Axe-
Let me correct your history.
The American involvement on the European front in WWII had NOTHING to do with Japan's attack on Pearl Harbor OR with any hostility toward Europeans. We were ALREADY at war in Europe when the surprise attack on Pearl Harbor Occurred.

In the Fall of 1939, Nazi Germany invaded Poland without warning. Days later, contrary to treaty, they invaded Britain and France. Soon Australia, New Zealand, Canada and South Africa had also joined the war. It was almost two years before the U.S.joined the war in defense of European allies.

The presence Nazi Death camps was confirmed when Germany lost the war. A million Jews died... however, all casualties of war numbered about 70 million
---Donna66 on 10/16/08


Donna66:

Before we wrap ourselves in righteousness too much, let's consider that the U.S. did NOT attack the Nazis for the Holocaust. Jewish refugees fleeing Nazi Europe were turned away at the US borders. They did not even attack the Nazis for invading Europe. America was very carefully neutral during all that. The American people were sick of war after WW1 and wanted no part of another one.

The only reason the US got into WW2 was because the Japanese bombed Pearl Harbor, which outraged the people into a thirst for revenge ("Kill Europeans and Jews? no problem. Kill Americans? MAKE THEM PAY!").

And remember Stalin killed more Ukrainians than Hitler killed Jews (8 vs. 6 million), yet we never invaded Russia.
---StrongAxe on 10/15/08


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NurseR ... You are not quite correct about Russia in WW2

At the beginning of the war, Russia and Germany were allies, and together invaded and carved up Poland.

The Russians only came onto "our" side after Germany attacked them after the Battle of Britain.

Come to think of it though, the Russians were fighting the Germans from then on, and the Americans did not come into the war till later!!
---alan_of_UK on 10/15/08


We WON 95% of the battles in Viet-Nam, IT was the Liberal Media that had a monopoly on OUR views which helped LOSE the War(They-Dems-Would love for this to be a Viet Nam), However THIS isn't a Viet-Nam,
Viet-Nam wasn't a threat to the WORLD, Israel or US, Iraq, Iran, Syria, & others ARE a DIRECT threat to the SURVIVAL of America(YOU) & our Brethern in Israel!
And THAT's Gospel, My Friend's...
YLBD
---Duane_Dudley_Martin on 10/15/08


Donna said:

"...considering the Holocast, I'm glad we did. After a look at the death camps, many vowed NEVER to let such a thing happen again."

but, we allowed it to happen in Darfur, and Rowanda, and Cambodia (well, we left vietnam after 20 years, maybe we were just tired of fighting there.)

We pick and choose where we want to defend democracy. I have to wonder just how these decisions are made.
---NurseRobert on 10/15/08


Strong Axe-
Yeah, I know, we shouldn't have gone against the Nazi's in WWII, either (by that reasoning) but considering the Holocast, I'm glad we did. After a look at the death camps, many vowed NEVER to let such a thing happen again. And many still feel morally obligated to combat such regimes to the best of their ability.

After Desert Storm, a number of Iraqis begged the U.S. to stay and take care of Saddam, which we didn't do at that time.

I don't know that oil had much to do with the conflict in Iraq. At least I don't see that it has increased OUR access to oil!
---Donna66 on 10/14/08


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john:

Al-Qaeda was funded by Saudi Arabia and hid in Afghanistan. If the REAL agenda had been "War on Terror", US would have attacked Saudi Arabia (and North Korea) rather than Iraq.


Nicole:

While I do agree slavery was very important in the civil war, it was NOT the only issue. Just like many other ideological differences in this world, it was not a 100% cut and dried any more than most other ideological issues are. Zealots on both sides of any issue try to over-simplify things and paint them as black and white (thus DEMANDING that any "reasonable people" must necessarily side with them), but reality is rarely so simple.
---StrongAxe on 10/14/08


Nicole rewrites history by saying:

Did you forget WWII?
They were killing millions of their own citizens in Russia, Germany and other selfish Countries.

mmm Russia was on our side during WWII. Furthermore, Japan and Germany declared war on us first...
---NurseRobert on 10/14/08


John ... The terrorists did not come from Iraq!!
---alan_of_UK on 10/14/08


As far as I remember, the terrorists attacked us and they declared war on us so we have every right to go in and weed them out. What else would you do, just sit there and let them run more planes into our buildings? And yes, I would believe that oil has something to do with it also.
---john on 10/14/08


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How would you feel if Iraq or England or Russia decided to invade the US (say) because abortion is legal in the US?
---StrongAxe on 10/10/08

Good point!
We are wrong in killing 4,000 babies a day!
If those Countries warned us and told us to stop the killing, and we refused.

Then YES, they should invade us!
We are not stopping killings are we?
We are under a American babies Holocaust right now!

Did you forget WWII?
They were killing millions of their own citizens in Russia, Germany and other selfish Countries.
Even if we were not attacked first, we had a MORAL right to stop the killings!
THE SAME MORAL LAW APPLIES TO US!

GOD IS THE GOD OF ALL NATIONS!
---Nicole on 10/13/08


StrongAxe, please stop with the double talk of the South.
I know why they claim why they separated from the North.

Federal rights vs. States' rights is correct.
Sovereighty or not.

Federal rights: We can demand any State to stop the abuse and denying basic rights to every American Person.

Southern States Rights: Mind your own business. We can do whatever we wish. Negros are not Persons!

Lincoln said no!
Southern States said okay, we will have our own Country and keep the Slaves.

Strongaxe, if Lincoln never suggested or act on abolishing Slavery, the South would never had tried to leave the Union.

SLAVERY WAS THE CAUSE OF THE CIVIL WAR.
EVERYBODY KNOWS THIS DEEP DOWN IN THEIR SOULS!
---Nicole on 10/13/08


Duane_Dudley_Martin:

You call me a sheep, but you still don't ask my question (which is just WHICH disaster is looming, and why you think so).


Donna66:

Yes, Russia won't feel accountable to anyone else if they invade the US - in the same way the US chose to not be accountable to anyone else when it invaded Iraq (over the objection of the UN and almost everybody else). So how are we any different?

China also murders dissidents (remember Tienanmen Square?) Should we invade them? Just how much does a country's internal policies have to violate our sensibilities before we have a mandate to violate their sovereignty? (This is by no means an easy question).
---StrongAxe on 10/13/08


StrongA_Have you heard or seen sheep being led to their slaughter?
Many walk that path and don't even realize it(Bent W/blinders on).
You(strongaxe)are one of these lambs,
therefore, the Harsh realities of this world(slaughter house) are about to be seen by those that have walked that walk of Blindness...
Find peace in the calmness of your spirit, not much time left...
---Duane_Dudley_Martin on 10/13/08


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Strong Axe-

Saddam Hussein wasn't a "bad president". He was a mass murderer and torturer who cut out tongues, cut off genitals, raped children, beheaded parents while their children watched, buried thousands of his citizens in mass graves. The Iraqi people were helpless to stop him.

Russia MAY invade the United States at some time.( It's not as if they've never threatened). I guarantee they won't feel accountable to anyone if they do.
---Donna66 on 10/12/08


Duane_Dudley_Martin:

Please elaborate on which "Hard Way" you are speaking of. Just how was Iraq threatening the United States? Remember, 9/11 is associated with Al Qaeda (in Saudi Arabia and Afghanistan) and not Iraq. North Korea (with demonstrated ability to use nuclear weapons) is a much greater threat.


Nicole:

From the North's point of view, the civil war was about slavery. From the South's point of view, however, it was about federal rights vs. states' rights (that is, whether or not states have sovereignty within their own borders). Yet Christians who take the North's side in the Civil War take the opposite side when talking about World Government vs. US sovereignty.
---StrongAxe on 10/10/08


Nicole:

If the US has the moral right to invade any other country it wants because it sees a moral injustice there, then by the same logic, the same mandate should apply to every other country.

How would you feel if Iraq or England or Russia decided to invade the US (say) because abortion is legal in the US?
---StrongAxe on 10/10/08


Strongaxe_Your about to find out, unfortunately it will be the hard way!
Have you no concept of the things(realities) around you?
I imagine it will be people like you that will learn the HARSH realities of our situation, "The Hard Way"...
---Duane_Dudley_Martin on 10/10/08


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it says the US has the right to invade anyone for any reason, without accountability. There must ALWAYS be a good reason for violating someone's sovereignty.---StrongAxe

Is KILLING a good enough reason for you?
You are dangerous and selfish.
Just because it isn't any of your friends dying it doesn't mean you have the right to look the other way!
You are your brother's keeper!!!

If your neighbor was beating and raping his daughter, and you could hear her screams.
Are you saying you wouldn't have the right to go into his house without knocking and pull him off of her daughter?

Are you not thinking logically.
You can't say he is a monster on side of your mouth and say: but it isn't my place to stop him!
---Nicole on 10/10/08


How would you feel if Russia invaded Washington because they thought Bush was a bad president?---StrongAxe

Forgot the Civil war?
The South wanted slavery and broke away from the Union.
They elected Davis as their President. Linocoln said U can't leave. He defeated the South, Davis stepped down and Slavery ended.

If Russia invaded Washington to stop Slavery, I would give the Russian Soldiers a drink of water as they are kicking the American butts.
HOW DO YOU THINK I WOULD FEEL?

I want Freedom just like my brother!
If my brother refuses to give me freedom, I will call a neighbor to help me at all cost.
If my brother doesn't want to get hurt or get his property messed up.
Then HE NEEDS TO GIVE ME MY FREEDOM!
---Nicole on 10/10/08


Duane_Dudley_Martin:

Just which American families' lives are being saved by having our troops fight and die in Iraq?
---StrongAxe on 10/10/08


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