Different opinions about the rapture. So what is the point of arguing? It just means that people are more entrenched in their views and we argue. Let those with wisdom read the Bible. First of all the Antichrist will be revealed. How will he do this? I believe by defiling the rebuilt Temple at Jerusalem with his presence. Maybe the Jews will be warred against before this time. When the Antichrist is there, he won't have time to settle in before Jesus returns. (My opinion.)
---frances008 on 5/29/08|
First the Rapture means the catching of those people who follow GOD into the sky to meet with JESUS there. Some here put it after the great tribulation. Others like me put it as ending the great tribulation.
That leads to more questions.
The old testament calls the place that birds dwell in the first heaven. Second is the place of the stars and the third is where GOD dwells.
---Samuel on 5/29/08|
"For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: Then we which are alive and remain shall be cought up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord." 1 Thessalonians 4:16-17
---elena5773 on 5/29/08|
DePuTy on 3/1/07
Revelation 3:10 is speaking of the end of the world.if you spiritually abide in Jesus you will not be condemned just like it says in John 3:16
---johnlovesginalyn on 3/16/07|
I believe the Rapture will precede the Hour of Tribulation because in my view, it's the only way that makes sense. Christ said in Revelation 3:10 "I will also keep you from the Hour of Trial that is going to come upon the whole world to test those who live in the earth."
KEEP means: 1. possess something- to hold or maintain something in your possession.
2. detain somebody-to make somebody wait or prevent somebody from going.
---DePuTy on 3/1/07|
What happens is there are many that look at the millenium reign on Earth as just too amazing or too good to be true. So amazing it can't happen. So they disregard it and say it isn't true even though revelation says it will happen. Whenevr Jesus mentioned the Kingdom of God he was talking about the millenium reign. Remeber the Lord's prayer. Thy kingdom come and thy will be done on Earth as it is in heaven. That kingdom will come and will govern with a set of heavenly laws.
---Matthew on 3/1/07|
JohnT - Keep on reading my posts! You might learn something that you need to learn! :)
---Helen_5378 on 3/1/07|
"There is no such thing as a pre-trib rapture or a literal earthly millennium."
Where do you think Jesus will reign after He returns to earth Jack? Are you also one who thinks we are taken from the earth? Have you not read?
After the first resurrection, we (The faithful overcomers) shall be priest of God & shall reign with Christ on earth a thousand years. Rev. 20:4,6-9>5:10
---joseph on 3/1/07|
Buttons: According to the Jewish, there are three heavens. 1. the firmanent as fowls of heaven, Gen 2:19. 2. the Starry heavens Deu 17:3. 3. The heavens of heavens, God's dwelling place, Deu 10:14, 1 Cor 12:2. we don't know where heaven is, because our carnal minds can't comprehend God's word. We just need to believe in it and know beyond a shadow of a doubt that we are going.
---Rebecca_D on 2/19/07|
Helen, you talk authoratively about things which no one knows about. You wrote The first heaven is ... The second heaven is ...the Third heaven is...
Since ONLY Paul was there, ONLY he and God know its properties. Since neither described it in deatail in Scripture, it is absurd to say, "heaven is..."
Actually, it is close to delusional whenever we go beyond Scripture, saying, "This is the way it is". One is here already.
---John_T on 2/19/07|
JohnT - 2 Corinthians 12:2 clearly states "the third heaven". The things of God are spiritually discerned, and the way I described it is the way it is discerned.
---Helen_5378 on 2/18/07|
The Bible teaches++ That we will be Raptured,[Those in CHRIST] to the upper part of heaven. That is good enough for me. I really don't need to know anymore or understand anymore.
---catherine on 2/18/07|
That will be the time when all who do not believe shall weep and howl with those who say they believe and don't.
---Frank on 2/18/07|
There is no such thing as a pre-trib rapture or a literal earthly millennium.
---Jack on 2/18/07|
Helen, your explanation of each of the heavens is PURE SPECULATION.
The only thing we may be sure of it that there is a third, then also a first and a second. Since we do not know per se the exact nature of ANY heaven we need to be adamant about what is known.
We go off on wild tangents when we speculate on things not known with certainty.
---John_T on 2/18/07|
Buttons - 2 Corinthians 12:2 describes Heaven as the "third heaven". The first heaven is the expanse from the earth to the sky. The second heaven is outer space. Then there is Heaven.
---Helen_5378 on 2/18/07|
REVELATION 21 & 22
When ALL that is written in the Bible has come to pass- All found in the Book of Life will live with God for EVER in the New Jerusalem! "God's dwelling will be with Man- For EVER!" in the new Heaven and earth!
(verse 2) "And I saw the Holy City, the New Jerusalem, coming down out of Heaven from God."
To answer you question, ALL found in the Book of life!
---DePuTy on 2/18/07|
Scripture that talks about the location of Heaven! (2 Corinthians 12:2) "I know a man in Christ who 14 years ago was caught up to the third heaven. Whether it was in the body or out of body I do not know- God knows."
Many believe the First heaven is the earth and it's atmosphere. The Second heaven is the rest of the Massive Universe. The Third heaven is located thousands upon thousands of light years away- at the ends of the Universe! That's why it's called the Third heaven!
---DePuTy on 2/18/07|
I appreciate your responses but the question I asked was, if you say heaven, where is heaven? Is there any scripture that tells us where it is? Peter speaks of a new heaven and new earth. What's the point in a new earth if no one is going to live there? My research about heaven always comes back to the realm of the atmosphere that exist below the mountains or in the clouds. I asked is there scripture to back up where Heaven is.
---buttons on 2/17/07|
DePuTy I will have to disagree with you about paridise on this one. I was not in Heaven at that time. It was in the heart of the earth till Jesus went there at his death and took them all out to heaven. Before Jesus, that is where the dead went, but after Jesus arose, we now all go to heaven.
---Rev_Herb on 2/17/07|
Buttons- there are several places in the Bible that mention Heaven! When Christ was being crucified, one of the criminals asked him (LUKE 23:42-43) "Jesus, remember me when you come into your Kingdom." Jesus answered him, "I tell you the truth, today you will be with me in paradise."
The paradise Christ is refering to is the Heavenly Kingdom! That's where we will be during the Tribulation- Hope your with us! We will dwell with God at the end of ALL things written in the bible!
---DePuTy on 2/17/07|
Where will we go when we are Raptured? That, my friend, is a good questian. And here is what I found with GOD helping me. Then the Son of MAN will be soon coming in the clouds with great POWER and glory. He will send His angels to gather His Chosen ones from all over the earth. [What a GOD] We will end up, my friend, uttermost part of HEAVEN.
---catherine on 2/17/07|
If the Christians are being rapture, where are they going? To be with God? Aren't we the dwelling place of God? If you say Heaven where is that? Does it say anywhere in scripture where heaven is? thess 4:17 says we shall from that point on" Ever" be with the Lord so we will go behind him where ever he goes. Like in Rev. when he makes his appearances we will be following him around?
---buttons on 2/16/07|
Many people have heard the Gospel. Via television, radio, signs on the road that read "God listens"... etc. In other words- many people believe in God, yet choose not to become Christians because it means- no more party life- drinking and many other things that don't please God. Sadly, when the Rapture occurs- These people who believe in God and have read the bible will most likely be the Christians fighting for survival during the Tribulation! The Raptured are safe in the Kingdom of God!
---DePuTy on 2/16/07|
You are here during part of the tribulation. And as it gets worse more stars shall fall from heaven.
---Frank on 2/16/07|
oh yes, thats exactly what is going to happen,all the mature,meat eating christians are going to be snatched out of earth and the ones that are left will be baby,milk drinking christians who will be saved during the tribulation,who&how they will be saved,God only knows.and they will be trying to save others.oh wait,there is the 2witnesses that won't make it into the rapture,they AND the baby christians will be the ones fighting the almighty antichrist along with satan and his angels.I hope they survive
---chestnut_burr on 2/16/07|
oh and also, after Rev.4 you can rip out the rest of revelation and throw it out,cause we won't be needing that anymore.
---chestnut_burr on 2/16/07|
Rev. Herb. I am learning. Thank you. I SURELY DO NOT WANT TO BE HERE DURING THE tribulation. I have always felt likt that, Although, I didn't understand about the TRIBULATION. So I want to thank you. Now I can rest easier.
---catherine on 2/16/07|
Silence NEVER proves a negative nor a positive. All you can say absolutely is that from 3:22 to 19:something, the word "church" is not written in Revelation.
Thus to prove a PTR, you need to find other verses.
Please go back to 2/10 posts to get an idea what is said here ny many.
---John_T on 2/16/07|
Rapture=== May mean either ecstasy or to snatch from one place and put in another. ===Jesus will come again with those who have died in Christ and join them in the air with Christians who are still alive. [The word Rapture does not appear in the KJV Bible] But the concept does. [Mark 13- 26,27] And 1 Thess. 4- 16,17.]
---catherine on 2/16/07|
Rev. chapter 4 is a picture of the rapture. The church is never mentioned again after chapter 4. Thus, the church is not here during the tribulation. The church does not go through the tribulation. If you didn't go in the rapture and are still here during the tribulation, then your chances of being saved are slim to none.
---Rev_Herb on 2/16/07|
Leslie, please provide verses to support your claim, i have a hard time trying to find anything of the sort in the bible, in fact the rapture could come during or after the tribulation
---mark on 2/15/07|
Mrs. Morgan, the point of going stright up into the air and comming back again is: We avoid the 7 yrs of great tribulation, Christians are the salt of the earth, salt retards coruption. With the saints and the Holy Spirit taken, then the devil has full reign and God can send his punishment upon evil mankind. We then come back to rule and reign with Christ. Sorry you will miss all that and suffer the tribulation.
---Rev_Herb on 2/15/07|
Be always on the watch, and pray that you may be able to escape all that is about to happen, and that you may be able to stand before the Son of Man!
Why would the Apostle make this statement if ALL Christians are going to be Raptured? I know many Christians who are living a sinful lifestyle- If you are committing sin when the Rapture occurs, you will MISS it! There is more to 'once saved always saved'- We must live a life a sin free as possible to be found worthy!
---DePuTy on 2/15/07|
Leslie, Where in the Bible doe it say that at the rapture only true and Holy people will go to heaven? When people receive Christ as their Lord and Saviour, the Holy Spirit comes and lives in your soul with you. The Holy Spirit is the spirit of God. So if the Holy Spirit lives in you, then who/whom is more Holy? You can't be Holier than the Spirit of God.With is by the way also the Spirit of Christ. They are NO Holy people on earth we are all sinners.
---barba6694 on 2/15/07|
The Rapture is before the Tribulation, when TRUE and HOLY Christians are taken from this world to be with Jesus in Heaven - the rest stay here on Earth for the Tribulation.
---Leslie on 2/11/07|
lorra 8574. "" the idea of Jesus coming to reign for a thousand years is a foreign concept"? Rev.20:5 But the rest of the dead lived not until the thousand years was finished.
Rev.20:6 Those that have part in the first resurrection will reign with Christ a thousand years.
Rev. 20:7 And when the thousand years is over Satan will be loosed out of his prison.
This concept is no longer foreign.
---john on 2/11/07|
lorra8574: Your post is correct except for this: Revelations is in code It is plain but difficult to understand.
Dispensational history is something I chose to ignore in the post, few people understand the differences within the camp like 5, 6 or 7 dispensations.
Unfortunately, it has come to commonly define what a fundamentalist believe, and THAT surely is in error, and why some people are nuts about the it.
Maranatha! Come quickly, Lord Jesus (but not by guesser's charts!)
---John_T on 2/10/07|
"....What would be the point if we were going to go up in the air, meet the Lord, and come straight back down again?" --Helen5378, that was WELL said. God Bless!
---Mrs._Morgan on 2/10/07|
John, prior to the 1800's Christians knew that they would be raised up on the last day, at the Second (and final) coming. The idea that Jesus was going to come down and rule for a thousand more years on earth was a foreign concept. As was the idea that Jesus would appear a third time after "tribulations". Revelations is in code, Matthew 24 is fulfilled. The rest is simple. Jesus came once and He will come again.
---lorra8574 on 2/10/07|
Jack, You said this : "We meet Him in the air AS HE DESCENDS TO EARTH..." --Jack, The Word makes it clear in 1 Thess. that at the Rapture of the Bride(the 2nd major Appearance of Christ), He will be in the clouds, and won't touch the ground, those who are alive and remain will be [CAUGHT UP] to [MEET HIM] in the [CLOUDS], ...and so we will every be with the Lord. God Bless!
---Mrs._Morgan on 2/10/07|
FACT: Jesus will return, as he promised.
THEORY: It will be Amillennial; it will be Post Millennial; it will be premillinneal.
Those believing the Premillinneal theory say Jesus can come pre tribulation, mid tribulation, or post tribulation.
Since the previous paras are THEORIES, lets stick with the FACT: Jesus will come, as he promised, at the time and manner the Father chooses.
---Observer on 2/10/07|
Jack - That is wrong. Go read all about the Rapture again. We are not going to do a "u-turn" as you put it. How do you reconcile Revelation 19:11-16 with this "u-turn"?
---Helen_5378 on 2/10/07|
Jack - What would be the point if we were going to go up in the air, meet the Lord, and come straight back down again? What then? How would we then get up to Heaven? And how would we be able to ride the white horse in Revelation 19.
---Helen_5378 on 2/10/07|
**You may think we are going to do a U turn**
I don't think. I know.
** but it does say in the Scripture you quote that we will meet Him in the air and so shall we ever be with Him.**
Yes. We meet Him in the air AS HE DESCENDS TO EARTH, and escort Him as He comes down.
---Jack on 2/10/07|
Dear Ana, during the Great Tribulation there will be a very short time that appears to be prosperity.
The lost will not enjoy their time left on earth when the Vials, Bowls and Trumpet Judgements fall.
Those who have not received the Mark and endure until the end through the Tribulation can and will be Saved if they accept Christ. It is not likely that someone who lived through the Age of Grace will live for Christ in the Age of Endurance though.
Today is the Day of Salvation.
---Elder on 2/10/07|
Jim. The rapture started being preached after 1830? Wow! You need to check some hymn books and see what they were singing about before 1000 AD. They absolutely knew they were going to be raptured.
---john on 2/9/07|
Jack. You may think we are going to do a U turn but it does say in the Scripture you quote that we will meet Him in the air and so shall we ever be with Him.
And if we look at the mansions He is preparing for us in heaven, so that He can recieve us to Himself to be where He is in heaven, then you may understand why people believe in a rapture.
---john on 2/9/07|
This is one of those doctrines where I decide not to decide.
Taking this wait and see stance has NO harmful effect to my faith because if I am wrong one way or another and teach I lead people astray.
It's truly a debatable matter and one that is best left to faith.
I happen to believe it because the Bible says we'll be saved from the wrath to come, and long before I ever went to a church, when it was just me Jesus and my Bible I believed it and no one taught it to me.
---Pharisee on 2/9/07|
What is the Rapture?
The overwhelming exhilaration & joyful bliss of the enduring, patiently faithful at the second coming of Jesus, The Christ, our LORD. Which elevates us into an emotional state of unreserved, overflowing ecstasy (rapture:o). Those seeking to be taken from the earth will be disappointed. Both Jesus & ultimately His bride, the new Jerusalem, comes down to us. The earth is man's domain & his eternal home. However beloved beware, His counterfeit appears first.
---joseph on 2/9/07|
Look in your dictionary because you wont find it in the bible.
---JEB on 2/9/07|
** "For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God:..."**
Note the word "descend", which means to go from UP to DOWN.
There's NOTHING here that says the Lord does a U-turn in mid-air.
But the words "meet the Lord" suggest WE will do a U-turn as we meet Him and then escort Him down to earth to judge.
---Jack on 2/8/07|
look up the word "air" in the strongs
and you will find it to mean spirtual body
the word rapture isn't in the bible and
when did the rapture start being preached
from pulpits-after 1830..
---jim on 2/8/07|
Rapture is caught up in the air...before the great tribulation, real christians will be caught in the air and people who will be left are the ones gonna stay for the 7 years tribulation. During tribulation there will be no more preachers to preach the gospel. The anti-christ will lead the world. Jesus has to be denied otherwise you wont be able to eat.During these years Christian's will be persecuted but the non-christians will enjoy this 7 years tribulation.
---ana8864 on 2/8/07|