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Christians Thought World Was Flat

Do you believe the majority of knowledgable Christians throughout history or even the advisors to Portugal's rulers at the time Columbus proposed sailing round the world thought the earth was flat and why?

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 ---danie9374 on 2/21/07
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Steveng:: There is only One Christ "JESUS CHRIST"any invention is a figment of the imagination.Calling someone or something Christ does not Make it truth.Your point is taken But so far this is not the open truth."One" Jesus SON oF the LIVING GOD.Matt16:16.
---Emcee on 4/10/08


Steveng:: There is only One Christ "JESUS CHRIST"any invention is a figment of the imagination.Calling someone or something Christ does not Make it truth.Your point is taken But so far this is not the open truth."One" Jesus SON oF the LIVING GOD.Matt16:16.
---Emcee on 4/10/08


The definitive work is the book "Inventing the Flat Earth: Columbus & Modern Historians" by historian Prof. Jeffrey Burton Russell. None other than evolutionist Stephen Jay Gould praised this in his article "The late birth of a flat earth" (Googling will find both).

Washington Irving made up the fable that Columbus had to fight against flat-earth belief in the Church. Then it was picked up by two 19th C antitheistic writers Andrew Dickson White and John William Draper.
---Ktisophilos on 4/10/08


Steveng, leading scholars in the RCC who commented on the shape of the earth all accepted its roundness. Only a handful of obscure writers said otherwise, and they were hardly influential.

As Warwick said, the debate with Columbus was on the circumference -- and the Church was right! Columbus was looking for an alternate route to India, but had underestimated the distance. Luckily for him, there was an unknown landmass ...
---Ktisophilos on 4/10/08


John:

"The Bible speaks of the "four corners of the earth" so it's no wonder they thought it was flat."

Nonsense. The Australian national broadcaster has a program "four corners". So do they believe in a flat earth? Of course not: the corners are the **compass directions**. The phrase "to the four corners of the earth" is a merism meaning "all over the earth". No one in the church understood this to mean that the Earth was rectangular.
---Ktisophilos on 4/10/08




deb: "I'm sure you don't mean to be unkind, but claiming that Catholics aren't Christian is not loving or of God."

I stand by my words. There are other groups that claim to be Christian: JWs, Mormon, SDA, Universal Church, Baptists, Lutherans, just to name a few. Reading the Bible shows other so-called Christian groups who follow another gospel.
---Steveng on 4/10/08


Emcee: "Christian,any follower of Christ is a christian."

There are Christians who think they are Christians but are not Christians but follow a different Christ.
---Steveng on 4/10/08


Thats part of the Problem,
WE (the Bride) are to be of the SAME Heart, Mind & Soul W/One and the SAME Doctrine that has been delivered unto us by God!
Personally,I don't care what the rest of you Do.
I'm NOT here for you, ONLY The Bride!
---Duane_Dudley_Martin on 4/10/08


I think there is still an extant Flat Earth Society. The earth may be flat but presently most people think it is spherical.
---amicusdei on 4/10/08


deb:

There are people with many different beliefs who post here. I have seen posts from Muslims, and even atheists. I saw one just yesterday (I can't remember which blog it was on) from someone who was reviling all of Christian belief as a silly superstition. (I was surprised that the mods let that one through).
---StrongAxe on 4/10/08




Steveng, I'm sure you don't mean to be unkind, but claiming that Catholics aren't Christian is not loving or of God.

Since you wouldn't be posting comments on this site if you didn't love God, I would ask you to reconsider your comment that is hurtful to Catholics. Thank you.
---deb on 4/9/08


Alan comment 1)'A little Googling will expose the flat earth idea was created by atheists to discredit Christianity.'

2)'Dr Karl Kruszelnicki a famous Australian scientist & sceptic says the idea that Christians believed in a flat earth was invented by 2 atheists.'

Alan I see both of the above comments as brief details of the one story. Dr Karl says the flat earth idea was the brainchild of two atheists who wanted to make Christianity/Christians appear foolish.
---Warwick on 4/9/08


Steveng:

While the popular conception is that the round earth theory is fairly new, it was known to the ancient Greeks, and certainly to Columbus (a devout Catholic), who was employed by Queen Isabella ("La Catolica") to find a shortcut to sail to the Indes by sailing west rather than by around Africa - a ridiculous idea if one believed the earth was flat.
---StrongAxe on 4/9/08


Alan of Uk:: That is why they have that saying in English ::"Dont believe EVERYTHING YOU READ" I agree with you friend 'Where ignorance is bliss its folly to be Wise.'FYI Steveng:Christian,any follower of Christ is a christian.Definition - Prefix that with good or Bad and you get the Type.
---Emcee on 4/9/08


Warwick ... "Dr Karl Kruszelnicki a famous Australian scientist & sceptic says the idea that Christians believed in a flat earth was invented by 2 atheists"
I can see that as a point of view.
(It's not quite what you said before!)
---alan_of_UK on 4/9/08


Once again, Emcee, we have this denial that Catholics are Christians!
Sad, isn't it?
---alan_of_UK on 4/9/08


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Steveng:: R U Passing the Buck? Christopher Columbus was a Catholic !! But you may have some credit 'if'you are apostate!!!Otherwise you keep the Flat theory.
---Emcee on 4/8/08


Christians Thought World Was Flat.

Hogwash. People keep saying this, but are confusing Catholics with Christians. It was the Catholics who held fast this flat earth theory.
---Steveng on 4/8/08


Alan I'm sure people believed in a flat earth but those who read God's Word have no reason to-the opposite.

The basis for the 7-day week is good evidence for a spherical earth. God defines day as the dark/light cycle with a spherical earth(Isaiah 40:22)hanging in space upon nothing(Job 26:7) rotating in relation to a fixed light source.

Dr Karl Kruszelnicki a famous Australian scientist & sceptic says the idea that Christians believed in a flat earth was invented by 2 atheists.
---Warwick on 4/8/08


This idea is definitely still used, together with the tinfoil hat one, and the personal attacks, as mind control to discredit the ones who ask intelligent questions or who see what is happening around them.
---frances008 on 4/8/08


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Warwick ... Are you sure?

Wikepedia says "The belief was strongly held up until the 4th and 5th centuries, when scholars started discussing the circumference of the earth".
---alan_of_UK on 4/8/08


A little Googling will expose the flat earth idea was created by atheists to discredit Christianity.

The Bible does not say the earth is flat, rather says it is round-Isaiah 40:22. Anyone who views an expanse of ocean knows the earth is round.

Four corners of the earth? A term of speech just like 'sunrise' which we use, fully aware the sun does not rise at all.
---Warwick on 4/8/08


early astronmers thought the earth was the center of the solar system and the sun revolved around the earth.there was a time when bacteria was not known,anestesia aunknown,many, many things unknown today. and guess what untiol we are in heaven with jesus thats the way it will always be.but there we will know him,his ways,spiritual truth.and whether the world is flat ,or whatever won,t matter one bit.
---tom2 on 4/7/08


The Bible speaks of the "four corners of the earth" so it's no wonder they thought it was flat. People were put to death because they were considered false teachers when they said it was round.
All the more reason we should be careful in judging who is false and who is correct.
---john on 8/10/07


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=7= Figurative words no more necessitate pagan cosmological beliefs than does modern usage of terms like 'sunrise' imply we are all ignorant of astronomy! The phenomenological imagery of the Bible is both convenient and vivid. But let's take a look at a telling example which shows 'that belief' to be a 'foreign concept' in Scripture: In Lev. 26:19 and Dt. 28:23, Israel was told the heavens would be like iron and bronze, i.e., not yielding rain! [Cont.]
---danie9374 on 3/5/07


=8= Now note this: If Israel really did think of the heavens as a solid vault (commonly suggested from Gen. 1:8,14, etc.), such verses would be meaningless, since the sky would already be composed of something strong like metal; the phrase 'BECOME like iron (or brass)' would completely lose its vivid impact! As a matter of fact, in Job 36:26-28 you'll see its author uses the water-cycle of evaporation, clouds and rainfall. [I'll have more to say on this topic later.]
---danie9374 on 3/5/07


Susie (really, ALL): I need to revise what I said about any textbooks teaching people thought the earth was flat: I finally found an old Encyc. ((c)1966 World Book) and its article stated: "Columbus was not trying to 'prove the world was round,' as so often has been said. He didn't have to. Thinking people knew the world was round." So my comment on when the 'peak' of that idea being taught must be pushed much further back! Prob. in the late 1920s or 30s, I'd say.
---danie9374 on 3/5/07


For those who are totally dependent upon their computer mice, since no moderator seems able to move posts, the following 8-part series is what I mistakenly posted elswhere:
---danie9374 on 3/5/07


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=1= m.p.a.: Good question; but you don't need to know Hebrew to see how the Israelites could have easily believed in a spherical earth! FIRST, I've already shown below that everyone, even before God told Moses to begin writing Genesis, would be able to observe how the stars 'apparently' moved around the earth in increasingly wider circle-like paths as one slowly gazed further and further below that point in the sky where no stars 'move' at all; near to the star we call Polaris, and [cont.]
---danie9374 on 3/5/07


=2= not just down to wherever a person's horizon ended, but also the movement of stars that would rise and others set in their endless dance across the sky; from dusk until twilight, or longer; some objects are even visible while the sun is up! Everyone could see for themselves the sky had to be at least similar to the inside of a great turning sphere; by soon realizing it wasn't individual stars which moved, but the whole sky! [Cont.]
---danie9374 on 3/5/07


=3= But today, some people say Israel must have thought both the earth and sky were 'rectangular' because of the language used in Isaiah 40:22 which describes God as stretching out the heavens like a tent for us to dwell in. Apart from the fact it's a great description of how earth's atmosphere protects us; acting very much like a tent for life in relation to space, this verse also uses the phrase 'the circle of the earth,' proving detractors can't say the oft quoted [cont.]
---danie9374 on 3/5/07


=4= 'four corners of the earth' phrase (e.g. from Isaiah 11:12) must be literal (something they often accuse others of when it suits their purposes) since Isaiah describes earth as somehow being 'circular' here! The Hebrew word used, chug (#02329) is trans. as 'vault' in some bibles; incorrectly assuming Israel thought the sky to be a solid dome, which I def. do NOT agree with in light of other Scriptures. But saying the word must mean 'sphere' seems a bit inaccurate; it MAY imply sphericity, [cont.]
---danie9374 on 3/5/07


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=5= but doesn't clearly state it. However Job 26:10 not only states God scribed a circle on the surface of earth's water during creation, it also states this circle was a boundary between light and darkness. This could easily be a view of earth from space where "circle" is the horizon which delimits night from day. Support for this is also found just a few short verses before those words in the phrase: [God] hangs (or suspends) the earth on nothing! (Job 26:7). [Cont.]
---danie9374 on 3/5/07


=6= Therefore, I'd translate 'chug' as horizon in these verses about the earth, just as the NETBible does: "He marks out the horizon on the surface of the waters as a boundary between light and darkness" (in Job 26:10; and Isaiah).

Because it's important (and touches on the meaning of 'chug' here as well), I'll reproduce what I said concerning the idea of a vaulted 'sky dome' elsewhere: [Cont.]
---danie9374 on 3/5/07


Bummer danie, we won't see it here in the Pacific North West of the U.S.! I love star gazing, God did some way cool stuff for our pleasure huh?
---NVBarbara on 3/3/07


EVERYONE (Warwick, 1st_cliff, many others esp. and Biblical belief in a 'round earth'): I mistakenly posted an 8-part series (so far) to the wrong blog! I'm hoping some moderator(s) can move them to here, but if you want to see them right now, change the page in your web browser FROM: '1172056431.htm' (here) TO: '1172279079.htm' (Do I Need A Bible).
---danie9374 on 3/2/07


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Speaking of Lunar Eclipses (as I did below), a very nice one will occur THIS SATURDAY (may be too late?) in all of Europe beginning at 2018 GMT. The Moon will be totally immersed in the shadow of the Earth from 2244 to 2358 GMT. During totality, only light 'filtered through' earth's atmosphere can reach the moon's surface, which will appear a reddish colour! Also visible from Africa, South America, and eastern parts of US/Canada.
---danie9374 on 3/2/07


cliff said, "but it took 'till 1492 AD to give credence to this first assumed theory. 'till then the majority opinion was that it was flat!" Well, only possibly if you mean EVERYONE in the world, BUT NOT in Europe! It appears you didn't read my posts below! We have PROOF the RCC was already teaching a spherical earth as fact to its memebers at least by 1230 AD. If you need further proof from a secular university, Google 'Shape of the earth' and 'history of science' together; Oklahoma U.
---danie9374 on 3/2/07


Warwick; FYI ,Circle in the KJV is from chuwg (Phonetic-khoog)- a circle ,circuit,compass (strongs Concordance #2329) no hint of a globe here! Same word in Job 22.13 He sittith in the circle of heaven, is heaven also a globe?
---1st_cliff on 3/2/07


Warwick; Thanks for your words of encouragement, but I'm not really a novice! Probably learned the truth before you were born,just that I'm sheep not a lemming. In hindsight of course it's clear that the earth is a globe, but it took 'till 1492 AD to give credence to this first assumed theory. 'till then the majority opinion was that it was flat! They said there was nothing beyond Ireland but the Great Sea.
---1st_cliff on 3/2/07


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Warwick, What evidence do you have for translating 'chug' * (Heb.: חוּג) directly as 'sphere'; many have said this, but I think Scripture only implies it (and quite nicely, in Job 26:10 and other passages). SEE my next extended post about this!
[*I prefer 'ch' over 'kh' for transliteration into Roman characters, since Khaf (not to be confused with Qof; 'q') is often 'k' or 'kh'. Testing of 'chug' in HTML code: חוּג]
---danie9374 on 3/2/07


M.P.A you are correct the word translated 'circle' in the KJV is 'Khug' in Hebrew which means sphere and in fact the Italian Bible translates Khug more correctly as Globo= globe.

The Bible being the very Word of the Creator, there from the beginning,never teaches a flat earth, just the opposite.

History records that the flat earth story was created by atheists to ridicule Christianity. And as usual many have been fooled because they don't do their homework.
---Warwick on 3/1/07


[1] Yet again, someone is attempting to create a FALSE DICHOTOMY between the Bible's major themes AND anything else it happens to refer to! What Scripture says of the earth is just as truthful as its words about God or His provision for our salvation from sin. Though its comments on nature may be clothed in poetry and figures of speech, they are still true! Why? Because its ultimate author is God Himself, the Creator of the Universe, who knows everything; [cont.]
---danie9374 on 2/28/07


[2] including how to reveal truth to all walks of people via words that span millennia! God can certainly 'be scientific' in what He says without having to write a textbook on science! As I've shown elsewhere in my comments of some who say the Bible states Pi is only 3, it's because THEY 'pretend' to be looking at a textbook, and don't read Scripture in its own CONTEXT.
---danie9374 on 2/28/07


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1st Cliff I believe you know the truth but don't yet know The Truth our Creator & Redeemer Jesus Christ.

It's so easy to come into His Kingdom. We are all sinners & if you have the courage to admit this to Him & ask Him humbly to wash you clean of this sin He will. No matter what you have done He will forgive you.

As you read His Word the Bible he will give answers to all the doubts and puzzling you have.

I made this step decades ago & have never regretted it-just the opposite.
---Warwick on 2/28/07


I have been told that in the original Hebrew the world is not described as a circle but as a 'sphere'. Unfortunately I do not understand Hebrew so cannot confirm that personally. Anyone out there who can??
---m.p.a. on 2/28/07


Warwick; "The bible says the earth is round" well so is my dinner plate,but it's also flat! Not really biblical proof, the earth is a "sphere" The bible does not pretend to be scientific, just historic, instructive and prophetic!
---1st_cliff on 2/28/07


Rebecca D - Good one LOL. Good one for those who don't believe we will get raptured. They could say we all ran the race too far and fell off the edge! :)
---Helen_5378 on 2/27/07


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Although it's very good to love others for the sake of Christ and what He did to save us, one of the greatest problems in the Body of Christ (but obviously not the only one) has been its gullibility as a whole! Too many haven't heeded warnings such as Titus 1:10 "For there are many rebellious men, empty talkers and deceivers" etc. and too many gossips as well! Truth MUST BE sought in Scripture first, and all else should somehow be VERIFIED before taught or passed along to others.
---danie9374 on 2/26/07


This sounds like the Global Warming "Flat Heads" of today.
---Elder on 2/26/07


This would explain why there are so many people missing. They kept running around on the earth til they fell off. See if the earth were round they would just be running around in circles. Hee, Hee.
---Rebecca_D on 2/26/07


Daniel, thanks for the information-good reason for not joining CN-Warwi- yuk!

A famous atheist scientist here dispelled the flat earth idea here a few years ago. Crediting the story to two atheists who wanted to make Christians look foolish. Dr Karl may be an atheist but praise God he is an honest one. Maybe we can pray for him to become an honest Christian?

So can we get over it- the Bible says the earth is round, well before anyone sailed around it. I jest suppose God knows these thangs!
---Warwick on 2/25/07


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It isn't flat?!! Where have I been?
---William on 2/25/07


Warwick, though I don't really mind, for the record, my name is Daniel (like the prophet). If you were to join CN, you'd likely be "warwi####" or whatever name you'd submit, and be addressed as "Warwi" by anyone unsure of your full name; as you no doubt were of mine.
---danie9374 on 2/25/07


NVBarbara: In 1522, came the so-called 'circumnavigation of the globe by Magellan' [In reality, they never intended to do so! After finding a way from Spain to a new (Pacific) Ocean, Magellan was killed while participating in a native war in the Philippines, so he never made it! Elcano later decided to continue west, back to Spain.] Prob. wasn't until 1800s that 'flat earth fools' multiplied. But after TV showed pics of earth from space, it was only for FUN or the truly delusional.
---danie9374 on 2/25/07


I do not know who said what about the world. I do wander why the Wicked and the lost man has more rights in it than the Righteous. After all, God does own everything in it and everybody on it. I rest my case.
---catherine on 2/25/07


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Danie, most impressive. You are truly knowledgeable and an asset to Biblical Christianity. The rubbish spread abroad by those who oppose Christ has fooled many Christians so it is encouraging to come across someone who has done their homework and has the courage to defend their faith.

In my country (Australia)the battle is intense with probably the majority of Christians content to slumber unaware of the battle. God bless.
---Warwick on 2/25/07


Believe it or not, there is a 'flat earth' society that still refuses to believe the world isn't flat! Personally I think the whole site is a hoax to see how many morons will post there. Its easy to find on the Net.
---NVBarbara on 2/24/07


[1] Warwick already advised Alan to Google 'flat earth myth' for many good links, so I'll spend more time here on what you're less likely to read. Most of the sites you'll find will declare: The idea Columbus had to overcome a flat earth belief can actually be traced no further back than at least two (apparently independent) falsified accounts in the 1800s; one by an American, another French. In 1828, Washington Irving (who wrote mostly fiction, such as 'Rip Van Winkle' and 'Headless Horseman') [cont.]
---danie9374 on 2/24/07


[2] published works on Columbus which claimed to be all historical accounts, yet included fictitous tales. You'll also read about how John Draper, Andrew Dickson White and others in Europe were instrumental in having this LIE taught as fact in our schools.

But my posts here will major on WHY almost all Medieval Christians; esp. by the time of Columbus, knew the earth was round:
---danie9374 on 2/24/07


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[3] 1) For thousands of years (unlike those of us in light-polluted cities) people couldn't help but notice the paths of the stars every night! And they didn't need time-lapse photos of star tracks to see there was a point in the heavens (north pole) which didn't 'turn' as did all other points wider and wider around, the further south one looked until the horizon blocked your view. But unseen stars would appear there too! And the further south you traveled, you'd find some stars never seen before!
---danie9374 on 2/24/07


[4] Though it's not immediate proof for the earth's sphericity, everyone who traveled north or south very far could see the sky around us was MORE than just half a sphere, and easily surmised all of it must be. And if so, why not the earth too, which it turned around? The 'wandering' planets, moon and sun were all observed to follow paths rather close to each other, called the ecliptic. And even to the dullest of minds, what's easier to believe: that the sun 'magically jumps' from one side of [cont.]
---danie9374 on 2/24/07


[5] the horizon to is opposite, every night, or that it and many other objects are continually in apparent motion round the earth? And people already knew this LONG before Christ came to earth. It's only one reason why by 200BC someone such as Eratosthenes could assume enough to estimate the distance around the whole spherical earth! And Ptolemy's books on astronomy, which were still being used by some in the RCC of Galileo's time, clearly stated the earth was round; [cont.]
---danie9374 on 2/24/07


[6] only a few during the course of the Church's whole history ever disputed that. And those who did, were never prominent figures.

2) Sailors and port dwellers alike repeatedly observed how ships going beyond the horizon would slowly disappear, until their sails and masts dipped below it as well. And sailors in the masts would always see land first; though NO CLOSER to it than someone on the decks! It didn't take a genius to know wherever one looked in the distance, [cont.]
---danie9374 on 2/24/07


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[7] the horizon of the earth had to CURVE downward, around it. All those living around the Mediterranean Sea, even before the Roman Empire and its collective knowledge, were quite familiar with this. And it was still true when ships sailed to/from Britain (in a much different part of the world); north/south, east/west or inbetween, all the same! IF I could, I'd post a picture here now from a 13th century (that's 1200's) astronomy textbook used in many Medieval universities [cont.]
---danie9374 on 2/24/07


[8] which illustrates EXACTLY the same phenomenon I've discussed here; a ship and port sitting on a spherical earth and 'lines of sight' between them! The scale is obviously exagerated to show the effect, but Google 'Sacrobosco-1550' for various jpeg images of it; first link is huge! Click 'wikipedia link' for smaller size. This is a 1550 print ed. of an original hand drawn c.1230 AD MS. It was one of the most influential books in Medieval Europe and became a printed edition in 1472.
---danie9374 on 2/24/07


[9] It should now be VERY obvious that with RCC created schools teaching a round earth as a fact OVER 200 years before Columbus, there was absolutely no need to argue about that c. 1490! What they argued about was his belief the earth was much smaller than any scientifically calculated figure (even by RCC scholars), and if it weren't for the Americas being squarely between him and Asia, he'd most likely have died and been remembered only as one of the biggest blunders in history! Lastly:
---danie9374 on 2/24/07


[10] 3) Lunar Eclipses are much more frequent than solar ones, and were viewed for milennia all over Europe. Again, it didn't take a genius to realize what was causing a shadow to rapidly move across the face of the moon: It was the earth blocking the sunlight to it! AND WHAT DOES THAT SHADOW LOOK LIKE? Both its initial and trailing edges are CURVED all the way round; like a circle! A flat earth could never make shadows like that. So, no, most everyone actually did believe in a round earth!
---danie9374 on 2/24/07


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Reading Genesis as historical fact God informed his people, very early on-It's round. What's needed to fit with Genesis is a rotating globe with fixed light source. First was darkness then God created light -- 'and he separated the light from the darkness. God called the light day & the darkness he called night. And there was evening & there was morning, the first day.'

I think it's gotta be round & spinning-let's hope it continues to do so! Otherwise some of us will see rapid global warming.
---Warwick on 2/23/07


Well, Danie, it just goes to show you that you can't trust any history book any more, eh? That is except for the Bible.
---Steveng on 2/23/07


Susie, yes, in some public school textbooks used after, oh, let's say 1900 or later, it began to be taught. As a rough estimate, I'd say it reached a peak around the late 50s or early 60s in the US. But ENOUGH historians had finally researched this, that by the 80s most if not all Encyclopedia articles on Columbus (e.g., E.Britanica) made sure to point out the argument was over the SIZE (not shape) of the earth!
---danie9374 on 2/23/07


It is conjectured that the first person to have advocated a spherical shape of the Earth was Pythagoras (6th century BC.)Eratosthenes, however, had already determined that the earth was a sphere and calculated its rough circumference by the third century B.C. Other arguments followed through the centuries.By the time of Pliny the Elder in the 1st century, however, the Earth's spherical shape was generally acknowledged among the learned in the western world.
---NVBarbara on 2/23/07


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I'm sure that the RCC did not publish the textbooks that I had when I was in grade school about 50 years ago. The flat earth theory was in the textbooks then when discussing why Columbus was trying to reach the other side of the world.
---Susie on 2/23/07


steveng: Sorry, but your post is full of all kinds of ERRORS(!):

1) The Roman Catholic Church NEVER propagated a 'flat earth' theory! What they did do wrong was to officially contiue backing a Ptolemaic view of our solar system in spite of Galileo's Copernican evidence!

2) Eratosthenes had no need to prove something most already believed true. What he did in 200BC was to measure the circmference of the earth!
---danie9374 on 2/23/07


steveng: Lastly 3) Although I'm def. not a member of nor anywhere near to the RCC in doctrinal beliefs, your final comment shows just how far off base one can go when NOT doing the proper research. MANY HISTORIANS have made a great effort to eradicate this myth! Now I see it may even be Christians themselves who continue to propagate it! Very sad; similar to the fact M. Murray Ohare tricked many into thinking the FCC was considering stopping religious broadcasting. :-(
---danie9374 on 2/23/07


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