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God Heals Unbelievers

Will God heal unbelievers when believers pray for them? Give some examples of healings and did it cause the unbeliever to become saved?

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 ---susan on 2/21/07
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Steveng: 'Even jesus said "if you love me, obey the ten commandments."'

Where exactly did Jesus say what you claim in your quotation marks? You've given 18 verses and not one of them says what you claim Jesus said.

Jesus did not differentiate between the 10 Commandments and the rest of the Law given to Moses. They are one and the same. Jesus fufilled the Mosaic Law Covenant, making it 'obsolete'- Heb.8:13 (NIV).

Seriously steveng, are you sure you want to enter the realm of misquoting Jesus Christ? You guys still live by the Mosaic Law yet Jerry can't answer for the 1st & 2nd Commandments, Warwick is on thin ice with the 3rd and you are the wrong side of the 9th Commandment!
---David8318 on 2/13/15


'Gee[sus], thats hard, let me think...God maybe'- Warwick.

Careful Warwick, don't take the Lord's name in vain! Now thats commandments 1-3 you guys break!

But yes- God was there and as we both agree, 'God is eternal' and 'not in mans time'. Time was given to man who was created in the 6th day. God is my witness. Where is yours to say God is dictated by mans count of 24hours?

Ps.90:4 and 2Pe:8 are relevant, God is not in our time. Ps.90:4 shows God was not in mans count of time during creation.

'God's describes 6-Days of creation in terms of a revolving earth in relation to a fixed light-source'- Warwick, Where does God describe this!? Chapter and verse please, or is this another A Simpson/C & MA lie!?
---David8318 on 2/12/15


Athanasius-

"Soon after this, another council meeting in Antioch condemned and deposed Athanasius. Again the councilors cited a long list of past offenses, focusing on the Alexandrian bishop's violent acts and political plotting rather than doctrinal issues. They accused him of working to turn Constans against Constantius... [They chose] to replace Athanasius [with] George of Cappadocia, a committed Arian..."

Richard E. Rubenstein, 'When Jesus Became God, The Struggle to Define Christianity During the Last Days of Rome', pg. 172
---scott on 2/12/15


'Do you claim God does not speak to man audibly?'- Warwick.

We've covered that ground Warwick. You must be still under the influence of your C & MA mind altering practices to have forgotten so quickly that you have already admitted to hearing "God's" voice audibly. But where has God's voice been heard audibly from heaven today? The answer: It hasn't! The voice must therefore be inside your head. This is a psychotic disorder.

What is the scriptural basis for your cult founding member A Simpson to claim:

"if we... hush every other sound, we can hear ["God's"] still, small voice". There is no Biblical teaching for this. Yours is a replacement theology based on occultism!
---David8318 on 2/12/15


"Strongs 776 "erets", which in over 1,600+ times means land or country. It would have been a great place to use the word "tebel" whole world, found 36 times." Trav

Ok Warwick, we're all watching.
---scott on 2/11/15




Jerry6593, there is no contradiction in my statements. Trinitarians adhere to the 10 commandments. Christians on the other hand according to Col.2:14 are not bound under the Mosaic Law.

The Law given to Moses (the 10, and the 600+ other commandments) was time specific, and a bilateral covenant between God and Israel, mediated by Moses. Often called the Law Covenant.

Christ fulfilled the Law Covenant and said, "This cup is the new covenant in my blood"- 1Cor.11:25 see Lu.22:20 (NIV). Evidently, you do not accept the "new covenant", preferring the old Mosaic Law Covenant. Tell me please if you still practice animal sacrifice, gift & burnt offerings and tithe, to name a few? If not... why not?
---David8318 on 2/11/15


David, you wrote " Warwick's Christian & Missionary Alliance according to a Pro Veritate report: ...[exhibits] a dangerous trend toward contemplative Christianity and mysticism... promoting mystical practices and contemplative spirituality [a] belief system that uses ancient mystical practices to induce altered states of consciousness (the silence) and is rooted in mysticism and the occult often wrapped in Christian terminology.

I asked you to show where the writer of this "report" applies it to the Christian and Missionary Alliance. You have not done so because it is a another lie.

BTW as you have not shown otherwise it appears you accept your WTS masters were not appointed as Jehovah's voice on earth.
---Warwick on 2/11/15


David in Genesis 1:1 God's describes 6-Days of creation in terms of a revolving earth in relation to a fixed light-source. One rotation=1 day. Still does. God's account, in man's terms, as in Exodus 20:8-11, numbers ch. 7.

It is irrelevant to quote 2 Peter 3:8 and Psalm 90:4 as they show God does not live in days of any length. We are discussing the length of man's days so stick to topic.

Re. JW doctrine on creation day-length: Awake 11/08/82 says 7,000 years each. Awake 01/01/2014 says each day lasted "many thousands of years." Insight, Vol. I, pg. 526-541 agrees.

Also JW doctrine teaches the earth was made billions of years ago. Jesus disagrees!
---Warwick on 2/11/15


David, you wrote "As man was not around until the 6th creative day, who can say how long each of God's creative days were?" Gee, thats hard, let me think...God maybe. Not a good enough witness for you?

Hey that's a good point: He isn't a Jehovah's Witness, He is Jehovah the Witness who disagrees with a non witnessing Jehovah's Witness.
---Warwick on 2/11/15


David, as any Christian should know we cannot be saved by following the 10 Commandments. However are you saying we can live contrary to them and still be Christian?
---Warwick on 2/11/15




David8318 wrote: "Do you also carry out animal sacrifices under the Mosaic Law!?"

You need to understand the difference between the Mosaic Law and the Ten Commandments. Even jesus said "if you love me, obey the ten commandments."

Matthew 5:19
Matthew 15:3, 6, 9
Matthew 19:17
Mark 7:8
Mark 10:17-22
John 14:15, 21, 31
John 15:10, 12
Romans 7:12


The Ultimate commandment is Love, which hangs the two commandment, which hangs the ten commandments, which hang all the laws of the prophets.

1 Corinthians 7:19
1 Corinthians 14:37
John 13:34
Matthew 22:40
1 Timothy 6:14

The old commandments are physical, the new commandments are spiritual
---Steveng on 2/11/15


'arrogantly assert that you don't obey God's handwritten Law'- jerry6593.

Look who's getting angry now!

Jerry has forgotten Colossians 2:14 which states: "having canceled the written code, with its regulations, that was against us and that stood opposed to us, he [Christ] took it away..." (NIV).

Yes jerry you are the only one because you fail to see the difference between trinitarians who still adhere to the 10 commandments, and Christians who read Col.2:14 and understand they are no longer bound under the Mosaic Law. Do you also carry out animal sacrifices under the Mosaic Law!?

Why, if you adhere to the 10 commandments do you disregard the 1st and 2nd commandments?
---David8318 on 2/11/15


Warwick: The biblical languages have always been your apologetic achilles heal.
---scott on 2/11/15

It is interesting that in every verse except one in the actual account of the flood in Genesis 6-7 it uses strongs 776 "erets", which in over 1,600+ times means land or country. It would have been a great place to use the word "tebel" whole world, found 36 times.
Even though sludge would have starved Noahs grass and meat eating animals out in months after flood, before it could grow again.
He will sacrifice himself on the alter of his doctrine to save face, while at the same time losing it. Irony at it's worst.
---Trav on 2/11/15


Scott, rather than deal with the issue you prefer subterfuge. Your natural state.

It does not so much matter what the words for "the earth" (note two words) are in Genesis 1:1 and in Genesis 7.21, 8:3 etc but that they are the same, showing that the Flood was universal. However Strongs says 'the earth (two words) is 'ha-a-res.'

I have never claimed to be an authority on Hebrew. Are you?

That you moan on and on about 'eth' shows you have no sense of humour and have nothing of substance about which to complain. You are like a nag!
---Warwick on 2/11/15


Jhn 14:23-26

Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.

He that loveth me not keepeth not my sayings: and the word which ye hear is not mine, but the Father's which sent me.
These things have I spoken unto you, being yet present with you.
But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.

I just try to follow what the Bible says.

GOD wants us to follow the Ten Commandments do you not remember they are also from Jesus. Read Romans 3:31 & 13:8-10
---Samuelbb7 on 2/11/15


Nothing like ad-hominem attacks to get ones point across.
Which seems to tell me that those who use this approach are not very confident in their own convictions or understandings.
---micha9344 on 2/11/15


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While I've admitted to error, even hypocrisy, a cultist, like yourself, will never do that. Scott, you deliberately omitted the counter-view the New World Encyclopedia wrote about Athanasius.

In the several years I've seen your work you've distorted men's words, lied and been assiduously evasive when questioned.

Witchtower members are, by their works, working for their own salvation, believing they alone are God's channel.

Scott, you seem a smart chap. However, you are lost and are unsaved because deep down you believe it's your righteousness that may get you eternal life. E.g. you believe only JWs witness to people about God.

Jesus hasn't taken your load because you refuse to give it to him.
---Marc on 2/11/15


Marc's amusing hypocrisy-

"Many MODERN historians"???

"Many MODERN historians"???

Extraordinary scholarship, Scott. Got any more unread but cut-and-paste [mis]quotes for us, Scott? Marc on 2/8/15

--

Meanwhile the very next day Marc posts...

"However, there are also many modern historians who object to this view..." Marc on 2/9/15

To which we reply:

"Many MODERN historians"???

"Many MODERN historians"???

Extraordinary scholarship, Marc. Got any more unread but cut-and-paste [mis]quotes for us, Marc?
---scott on 2/11/15


...rather than show some humility and admit that you are wrong with these language issues, ... The biblical languages have always been your apologetic achilles heal.
---scott on 2/11/15

He cannot. He has worked for and still does in reality for the promoters of weak doctrines. Admitting he is wrong would require apologizing and explanation of how he can be trusted this time.
He has a saul/Paul problem...but, to fearful of men to reverse. He would rather argue with the prophets and than lose face with men.
He does make great opportunity's to point to sheep scripture. That may be his work. He does this well.
Joh_10:13 The hireling fleeth, because he is an hireling, and careth not for the sheep.
---Trav on 2/11/15


"What I am saying..." Warwick

Ok, I tried. There is no "s" (Heb shin) in the word(s) that you keep posting. At least you know now (thanks to your favorite JW) that it's two words and not one. You're welcome.

So the point that you are making (right or wrong) is undermined by an obvious lack of familiarity with the Hebrew language.

I only use your example of "eth" (yes years ago) because, rather than show some humility and admit that you are wrong with these language issues, you make it worse for yourself and your credibility by continuing to argue and spin rather than just saying thanks for clearing that up for me. The biblical languages have always been your apologetic achilles heal.
---scott on 2/11/15


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Scott, what I am saying is that in Genesis 1:1 'ha-a-res' obviously means 'the earth/ the planet' and by context we can see it means exactly the same in the Flood epic.

That 'ha-a-res' is a transliteration does not mean it is not also a phonetic representation giving us a clue to how it should be pronounced.

"I think you are bananas." If you know what I mean you do so only by deduction, from the context.

You have been moaning on and on about "eth" for years but you have never quoted what I wrote. That you have to go back to c2008 to find something shows you have nothing. I think I mentioned it once or twice!
---Warwick on 2/10/15


'the thousand-million year 'days' is JW doctrine'- Warwick.

No one believes your demonic lies anymore Warwick. Other than your made up "I met a JW" story, quote where the above is JW doctrine?

You ask, 'Where does... one day means other than 24hrs?'

2Pe.3:8, "one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day" (NIV).

Ps,90:4, "A thousand years to you are like one day, they are like yesterday... like a short hour in the night" (GNT).

As you admit Warwick, 'God is eternal', time was 'given to man'. As man was not around until the 6th creative day, who can say how long each of God's creative days were?
---David8318 on 2/11/15


David:

"I'm still waiting to hear from you jerry:

Why do trinitarians who still adhere to the 10 Commandments not obey the 1st and 2nd Commandments?"

"JW's do not believe Christians are still bound by the 10 Commandments."

Am I the only one who sees the hypocrisy in these two statements? You arrogantly assert that you don't obey God's handwritten Law, and then (falsely) accuse us who believe in the biblical triune Godhead of the same sin.

Good grief.


---jerry6593 on 2/11/15


David I have asked you and Scott the following questions quite a few times. without result. That you refuse to answer shows you cannot answer honestly without destroying your silly story.

Do you claim God does not speak to man audibly?
Do you also claim God does not speak to man through His Son Jesus?
Do you also claim God does not speak to us also via our consciences?
Do you further claim God does not speak to us through his word?

BTW you still haven't told us where in Scripture God has appointed the WTS as His voice on earth.
---Warwick on 2/10/15


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Of course, as admitted, Scott hasn't bothered to even read Rubenstein's book..." Marc

Another lie.

Richard E. Rubenstein's book (all 267 pages): 'When Jesus Became God, The Struggle to Define Christianity During the Last Days of Rome' is on my desk now.

You might particularly enjoy this excerpt from page 121:

"But if the volatile bishop thought his troubles were over, he was very much mistaken. Many Eastern bishops, including some who sympathized with Athanasiuss theological views, strongly disapproved of his violent methods- 120"

120- See Hansons extensive discussion in Search, 246-273. At the Council of Tyre such anti-Arians as Paul of Constantinople voted against Athanasius.
---scott on 2/10/15


'Now you have to accept Scripture'- Warwick.

Although Warwick unsurprisingly can't provide scriptural references for his occult practices! C & MA adherents (Warwick) will use Bible terminology but in fact they're heavily involved with the occult. Notice Warwick's claims:

"Scripture says He ["God"] speaks to us via the Holy Spirit and to our 'hearts'". Chapter and verse please!

"if we... hush every other sound, we can hear ["God's"] still, small voice" (A Simpson). Chapter and verse please!

Warwick is preaching occult "Contemplative, mystic Spiritualty". His C & MA church lead him into an altered state of mind to contact demonic voices! Unhinged or what!
---David8318 on 2/10/15


David, that the creation days of Genesis ch. 1 are 24hr days, is confirmed by Exodus 20:8-11, and elsewhere e.g. Numbers ch.7. My JW visitor said the thousand-million year 'days' is JW doctrine. As that does not come from Scripture it must, by elimination, come from man, and it does. It comes from the secular long-ages idea which places death of man and animal long before Adam appeared on the earth. This undermines the Gospel.

Your idea that sin entered the world on the never-ending 7th day is built upon a false premise. Please tell me why you believe the 7th day never ended?

Exodus 20:8-11 shows the rest was for man, not God.
---Warwick on 2/10/15


'you admit God speaks audibly to man'- Warwick.

Quote me where I have denied God speaking audibly to man? Quote or admit your lies and error.

What Warwick dodges is the issue of his occult C & MA practices. Warwick is squirming around trying to avoid exposing his real occult identity by being involved with the cult Christian & Missionary Alliance. A cult that is heavily involved with mind altering 'contemplative, mystic spirituality'. The C & MA hierachy brainwash Warwick into believing he's talking to "God".

Of course we all know he's communicating with Demons!
---David8318 on 2/10/15


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David, you say "You teach death has always been God's eternal purpose to populate heaven even before Adam sinned!" Quote me please or admit your error!

Where does Scripture teach that 'day' with a number i.e. the first day, or one day means other than 24hrs?

Considering your quote beginning "a dangerous trend toward contemplative Christianity and mysticism..." And knowing how deceitfully you misquote, please direct me to a source text which applies this information to the Christian and Missionary Alliance.
---Warwick on 2/10/15


'you admit God speaks audibly to man.... He speaks to us via the Holy Spirit'- Warwick (2/10/15).

Is Warwick serious! Are the C & MA mind altering drugs still working on Warwick or what!?

Please, can someone of sound mind show me where the Bible says "God will be heard audibly via the holy spirit"?

Maybe Warwick's trinitarian side-kick Marc can help him out here because Warwick is clearly still under the influence, and unable to answer any questions other than to promote his C & MA occultism.

Just where do you trinitarians get this occult rubbish!?
---David8318 on 2/10/15


David, at long last after multiply questions you admit God speaks audibly to man.

Now you have to accept Scripture says He speaks to us via the Holy Spirit and to our 'hearts' and via answered prayer. As Simpson says God speaks to man in his conscience but not in the hurly burley of life but when we retreat to a quiet place and seek His council. Jesus did the same.

BTW the Christian and Missionary Alliance is not considered a cult (a laughable idea only promoted by the desperate and unhinged) not called so in any book of cults. However the Jehovah's Witless are in every such book.
---Warwick on 2/10/15


Scott, long lost to reason's call and pursuit of truth, quotes from Rubenstein's attack on Athanasius, the very Rubenstein Scott's own quoted New World Encyclopedia said his "hostile attitude towards Athanasius [was] based on an unfair judgment of historical sources."

"Never mind," dishonest Scott plots, "anything to further the Witchtower Kingdom."

Of course, as admitted, Scott hasn't bothered to even read Rubenstein's book but prefers to (yawn) cut-and-paste someone else's cut-and-paste, hopefully placing him closer to the Kingdom of Russell (aka salvation by works).
---Marc on 2/10/15


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Warwick's Christian & Missionary Alliance according to a Pro Veritate report:

"...[exhibits] a dangerous trend toward contemplative Christianity and mysticism... promoting mystical practices and contemplative spirituality [a] belief system that uses ancient mystical practices to induce altered states of consciousness (the silence) and is rooted in mysticism and the occult often wrapped in Christian terminology".

Remember what cult C & MA leader A Simpson claimed: 'if we will only enter in and hush every other sound, we can hear [God's] still, small voice'? Where does the Bible teach this will happen for Christians? Simple, it doesn't! Warwick's C & MA religion is occult!
---David8318 on 2/10/15


'you have some problem regarding God speaking to man'- Warwick.

No no, for sure God has in the past spoken to man. There's nothing demonic about that. The differences between Bible examples and the way your Christian & Missionary Alliance cult claim God is speaking to you are far different.

As per your cult founding member Simpson: 'There is, in the deepest centre of the soul, a chamber of peace where God dwells, and where, if we will only enter in and hush every other sound, we can hear His still, small voice'.

No booming voice from heaven then! Where does this voice from heaven you claim occur? Why is it not reported? You must either be a liar or a psychotic with demonic voices in your head!
---David8318 on 2/10/15


Athanasius-

That council was attended by supporters of Athanasius and Arias.

"...Athanasius's offense had nothing to do with doctrine. [He was charged with] the unscrupulous use of strong-arm methods against his opponents, and that charge as a general accusation, whatever may have been said about the individual incidents, was abundantly justified."

"The commissioners charged that Athanasius's supporters were intimidating and kidnapping witnesses...it was clear that their support would indict Athanasius. [But] the bishop fled...by night in a small boat..."

Rubenstein, When Jesus Became God, Struggle to Define Christianity...Last Days of Rome, Citations from Hanson, Search, 123, 124, 255.
---scott on 2/10/15


\\Right. 2 different books (and dates).
---scott on 2/10/15\\

Sorry. I read it wrong.

Does either book explain how St. Athanasius was run out of Alexandria several times by the ecclesiastical mafia there which used violence and intimidation against him and his supporters?

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 2/10/15


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"T. D. Barnes book...It couldn't have been in both years." Cluny

Right. 2 different books (and dates).
---scott on 2/10/15


'Quote me please or admit your error!'- Warwick.

Maybe you could first answer my question- Where have JW's taught death comes before sin? Please quote where JW's "[place] death before sin"? Quote or admit your error.

It's obvious Adam did not sin in the 6th creative day, unless you can show otherwise. As God has not declared the 7th day as ended, and it was still running in Paul's day (Heb.4:6-10), Adam must have sinned somewhere between the start of the 7th day and when Paul was writing.

Of course, you believe the 7th day of God's rest was only 24hrs- is that what the voice out of heaven tells you? As if God needed to "rest" for 24hrs. A rather dumbed down understanding of God's "rest".
---David8318 on 2/10/15


'I love to talk to JW's'- jerry6593.

But only until JW's answer back... then jerry leaves.

I'm still waiting to hear from you jerry:

Why do trinitarians who still adhere to the 10 Commandments not obey the 1st and 2nd Commandments?

Afterall, you do love talking to JW's!
---David8318 on 2/10/15


David , Exodus 20:8-11- where God says He created in 6- days and rested the 7th so man would do the same, proves the 7 days of creation and rest are the same length as mans 7 day week.

You say "You teach death has always been God's eternal purpose to populate heaven even before Adam sinned!" Quote me please or admit your error!

You write "Adam sinned during the 7th day." Where does Scripture say that?

David, where does 'day' with a number i.e. the first day, or one day mean other than 24hrs?

As JWs teach the creation days are 1 thousand or 1 million years long they are saying death came into the world before sin.

.
---Warwick on 2/9/15


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David you now appear to be saying God's word is promoting occult beliefs, when it says "Out of heaven he let you hear his voice, that he might discipline you. And on earth he let you see his great fire, and you heard his words out of the midst of the fire" Deuteronomy 4:36. See also Isaiah 30:30, Hebrews 3:7,15, 4:7, Acts 32:14, Matthew 12:19, John 5:28, 10:3.

You say that hearing from God is occult! What other occult practises do you claim God promotes?
---Warwick on 2/9/15


'Out of heaven he let you hear his voice'- Warwick.

Ah...so Warwick does claim to hear Gods voice audibly! Warwick equates Bible characters who did hear God's voice audibly with his occult C & MA experiences. Delusions of grandeur or what! I do not for one moment believe that God is telling Warwick to "Take from Mithra", or to worship a triune deity that has "direct links" with paganism.

The people who heard God's voice "out of heaven" were not involved in paganism or Mithraism and were not told by God to do so.

The voices Warwick hears do not originate with God. Warwick is listening to demonic voices and not God's- 1Jo.4:1.
---David8318 on 2/9/15


'How long is 'one day'?'

As you say Warwick, "God is eternal", time "was given to man". Thus the creative "days" do not relate to mans count of time but to God who is not in time as man understands it. You're confusing mans count of time with God's!

Moses when writing about creation said a 1000 years for God are "but as yesterday when it is past"- Ps.90:4.

Sin and death entered the world (Ro.5:12) after the 6th creative day- during the 7th. Adam sinned during the 7th day. Sin and death entered the world concurrently. Where have JW's taught death comes before sin?

You teach death has always been God's eternal purpose to populate heaven even before Adam sinned!
---David8318 on 2/9/15


scott, was T. D. Barnes book published in 1981 or 1993?

It couldn't have been in both years.

And it's either Oxford or Cambridge U press that is not going to publish books mentioning pigs or pork lest mahometans be offended.
---Cluny on 2/9/15


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David, I was there, you were not, I am a witness and you not, ironic.

You would have us believe man is eternal, as is God to whom "a day is as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day" 2 Peter 3:8. This does not mean one day is anything other than 24hrs to man. Time was given to man (Genesis ch.1) who lives one day at a time, not to God who is eternal. How long is 'one day' in one day at a time David?

As God is my witness the JW heavies (bulk and attitude) insisted the days of creation are either one thousand or one million years each. This places death before sin, in contradiction of Romans 5:12.
---Warwick on 2/9/15


'creation days'- Warwick.

At Gen.2:4, all 6 creative "days" are summed up in one all embracing "day". Thus, "day" at Gen.2:4 does not mean a 24hour period.

Of interest is Genesis 2:23, part of the 6th "day", in which Adam was comissioned to "cultivate" the garden (2:15) and to name the animals (2:19,20). All in the space of 24hours?

In the same "day", Genesis 2:23 tells us when Eve was brought to the man, Adam exclaimed "happa'am", or "now at length or "at last". Adam would not have said 'happa'am' after only a few hours! Clearly, cultivating the garden and naming animals was a lengthy task.
---David8318 on 2/9/15


David, you have some problem regarding God speaking to man. "Out of heaven he let you hear his voice, that he might discipline you. And on earth he let you see his great fire, and you heard his words out of the midst of the fire' Deuteronomy 4:36. See also Isaiah 30:30, Hebrews 3:7,15, 4:7, Acts 32:14, Matthew 12:19, John 5:28, 10:3.

And you think it is something demonic to hear His voice. Obviously God disagrees with you on this. And of course almost everything else!

BTW you still haven't told us where in Scripture God has appointed the WTS as His voice on earth.
---Warwick on 2/9/15


Scott, long lost to reason's call and pursuit of truth, quotes from Barnes' attack on Athanasius, the very Barnes Scott's own quoted New World Encyclopedia said his "hostile attitude towards Athanasius [was] based on an unfair judgment of historical sources."

"Never mind," dishonest Scott plots, "anything to further the Witchtower Kingdom."

For merely speaking "against them as heretics, pro-Arian [i.e. JW] bishops began to foment controversies against the young bishop, accusing him of various crimes against the faith." (NW Encyclopedia)
---Marc on 2/9/15


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'Christians should keep the 10 Commandments'- jerry6593.

JW's do not believe Christians are still bound by the 10 Commandments. JW's certainly do not keep a literal Sabbath!

Jerry, as it was "Years ago", you were more likely talking to Mormons or Roman Catholics, who still adhere to the 10 Commandments.

I also like talking to trinitarians. Jerry- can you tell me why trinitarians who still adhere to the 10 Commandments not obey the 1st and 2nd Commandments?
---David8318 on 2/9/15


'In the JW's long-ages idea death was there eons before sin'- Warwick.

I'm sure Warwick had to "hush every other sound" to let his demonic "samll voice" inside his head to come up with that one! The 'JW long ages idea' is total Warwick fabrication!

The writer of Genesis- Moses- said regarding creation at Psalm 90:4, a 1000 years to God are "but as yesterday when it is past". As no one has ever lived beyond 1000yrs, a day with God cannot be humanly measured.

As regards sin, JW's believe what the Bible teaches at Romans 5:12 which states sin (and death) entered into the world 'through one man' (Adam) not eons of time before. This is a typical Warwick/trinitarian misrepresentation.
---David8318 on 2/9/15


I pointed out this nonBiblical belief undermines the basis of the gospel...
At this the boss spat the dummy and stomped out muttering.
---Warwick on 2/8/15

Wow, what a inspiring story, such a man handler. Ha. JW's must have a wanted picture on you? Biggest doctrinal dummy(pacifier) of all is plugged your mouth and ears. Bragging about running JW's off. A proud accomplishment. Can't convince or convert em...run em off.
I like them better every time you and your ignorant puppy tell a story.
Heb_8:8 For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah:
Hmmm, anglican, anglican where is that, in scripture.
---Trav on 2/9/15


'where I said Good [God] speaks to me'- Warwick.

Warwick's founding C & MA member (A Simpson) taught occult practices whereby if one '...hush every other sound, we can hear His [Gods] still, small voice',

Another C & MA cult member wrote: 'God can and does speak to us in multi-level methods as we open up all the vents of our soul to listen'- David Smith, who lists 30 ways God speaks to believers, including mental pictures, imagination, visions, and even journaling conversations with God!

Others who practice occult "journaling conversations" with "God" also claim what Hitler and the Nazi's did was necessary!(Neale Walsch,April 7,2000)

Just what exactly does Warwick mean?
---David8318 on 2/9/15


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\\"[Athanasias] maintained the popular support which he enjoyed from the outset and buttressed his position by organizing an ecclesiastical mafia..\\

First off, the proper spelling of his name is AthanasiUs.

Next, it was the ecclesiastical mafia who EXILED him several times from his see of Alexandria.

This book does not sound very accurate.

Glory to jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 2/9/15


Warwick, where have I said God speaks to you audibly? I have not made this claim simply because God doesn't speak to people like you!

I posted, "I and others have been asking of you for an explanation as to whether God speaks directly to you either audibly or in the head".

Your cult founder A Simpson wrote:'There is, in the deepest centre of the soul... where, if we will only enter in and hush every other sound, we can hear His still, small voice'- (ref provided). Rather than deny, you defend your occult C & MA by saying:

'You claim God does not speak to man' (1/4/15).

'You appear to saying that God does not speak to us' (12/23/14)

So just how does God speak to you Warwick?
---David8318 on 2/9/15


Athanasias-

"[Athanasias] maintained the popular support which he enjoyed from the outset and buttressed his position by organizing an ecclesiastical mafia...like a modern gangster, he evoked widespread mistrust, proclaimed total innocence - and usually succeeded in evading conviction on specific charges." T.D. Barnes, Constantine and Eusebius, Cambriddge, 1981, p. 230

"Athansias exercised power and protected his position in Alexandria by systematic use of violence and intimidation." Barnes, Athanasias and Constantinius, Cambridge, 1993, pp. 32-3
---scott on 2/9/15


John 4:48 - Then said Jesus unto him, Except ye see signs and wonders, ye will not believe,
---RichardC on 2/8/15


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Scott, up to his old tricks again, "conveniently" (i.e. tendentiously [will someone please pass Scott the dictionary?]) leaves out from his snip-snip, cut-and-paste job on Athanasius, the following important balanced argument (something that intellectual of intellectual organisations, the Witchtower, holds dearly): "However, there are also many modern historians who object to this view and point out that such hostile attitudes towards Athanasius are based on an unfair judgment of historical sources." (New World Encyclopedia)

Hey, Warwick, do you think we should ever trust Dishonest Scott and his quotes?
---Marc on 2/9/15


David, I am still waiting to see you quote where I said Good speaks to me audibly. As you are a liar, caught in yet another lie I suppose I will have to wait a long long time!
---Warwick on 2/9/15


Warwick: Years ago I also had a visit from some JW's. They did not seem very knowledgeable about their own bible. So I asked them if they believed that Christians should keep the 10 Commandments. They said emphatically YES! So I asked why they don't keep the 4th one. They went away confused, and returned with the local head JW days later. He was also biblically illiterate, and when unable to answer my questions, he got very angry and left. I love to talk to JW's.


---jerry6593 on 2/9/15


"Some MODERN historians"???

"Some MODERN historians"???

Extraordinary scholarship, Scott. Got any more unread but cut-and-paste [mis]quotes for us, Scott?

All hail, cut-and-paste king of Kingdom Halls!!
---Marc on 2/8/15


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Miracles (and prophesy) are proof of God's existance. Many people were healed by God through Christ, some accepted Christ and some did not, some believed and some did not. Matthew 5:43-45

The OT miracles occurred so people throughout the world and even in future generations would know Jehovah is the true God - including plagues on Egypt, crossing the Red Sea, Daniel's three friends in the fiery furnace.

The NT miracles also prove that Jehovah is the true God

John 5:36
John 10:37,38, 14:10,11
Acts 2:22-24
Mark 16:20
2 Corinthians 12:11,12
Hebrews 2:3,4


---Steveng on 2/8/15


Athanasius-

"Some modern historians suggest that the tactics of Athanasius, while often downplayed by church historians, were a significant factor in his success. He did not hesitate to back up his theological views with the use of force...he...could instigate a riot in the city if needed. It was an arrangement "perpetuated by violence."[1] ...beatings, intimidation, kidnapping and imprisonment to silence his theological opponents...[he was] tried many times for "bribery, theft, extortion, sacrilege, treason and murder."[2] While the charges rarely stuck..." New World Encyclopedia

1. Barnes. Athanasius and Constantius: Theology and Politics...

2. Rubenstein. When Jesus Became God
---scott on 2/8/15


Marc, I received a personal visit from 2 local JW heavies. They tried the usual JW 101 line but when lead off their prepared spiel they floundered. I asked whether creation days were 24hr days as Scripture says. One replied no they are more likely one thousand or one million years long.

There is not room here for detail however I pointed out this nonBiblical belief undermines the basis of the gospel which is based upon Jesus coming to pay the price of sin, sin and its consequence death the result of Adam's sin. In the JW's long-ages idea death was there eons before sin the opposite of what God's word says. At this the boss spat the dummy and stomped out muttering.
---Warwick on 2/8/15


"Athanasius complains it impossible to pin the Arians down. Attacked at one point, they change their ground and take refuge in equivocation. Despite claims to be logical, despite their system's superficial appearance of logicality, they could never be consistent: 'As a system, Arianism was utterly illogical'. If proof of Arians' inconsistency is asked for, it's necessary only to point to his original statement's modification that the Son is a creature by adding the words 'but not as one of the creatures'...or to Athanasius' account of the Arians' whisperings and winkings during the Council of Nicea debate...The early Arian statements' confusion and self-contradiction is due to Arius' sophistry" (Pollard, T.E., The Origins of Arianism)
---Marc on 2/8/15


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"Knuckleheads! Dunces! Fools & idiots!"- Christian Zionist Marc, 2/6/15

"Christian Zionism: The Most Virulent and Hatred Driven Heresy"- Dr. Jim West, Adjunct Professor of Biblical Studies:

"Christian Zionists, who speak...about love of Israel...are quicker to malign, misrepresent, and attempt to deceive concerning those with whom they disagree than Satan himself...

...Its best if some...dim Christian zionist tries to interact with you to ignore them and let them wallow in their own cesspool of vile Hagee-esque idiocy. They arent interested in conversation [but] in hearing you say something which they can then distort...to demonize you and exalt their own heretical anti-christianity."
---scott on 2/7/15


I prompted people to insert Papias, Ignatius, Polycarp into the JW search engine to discover the WT's cover-up of what the first Christian theologians wrote about the Trinity. Scott rebuked me, insisting "detailed" material is on their Online Library. Our chutzpah-brimming JW "prophet" demanded an apology. Instead, I followed Scott's command, and what did I find? One or two vacuous, unreferenced statements, and despite their dearth of substance, convoluted to appear favourable to JW heresy.

Scott, you continue to deceive.

BTW, met a JW yesterday. He reckoned the proof JWs were God's chosen was because, "'You are My WITNESSES,' says the Lord" (Isaiah 43:10). Such impeccable, irresistible logic!!
---Marc on 2/7/15


Jesus healed 10 leppers, but only 1 returned to thank God. Now, I dont know if they were saved afterward, but it appears the 9 who didnt even bother to acknowledge God had no change of heart, which typically accompanies salvation. I doubt their hard hearts accepted Jesus as their savior if they couldn't even thank him for healing their leprosy.
---Jed on 2/2/15


The man healed at the pool passage is not included in older more reliable scriptures.
Such a healing procedure is contrary to the Lord's character, and is actually quite cruel. The Word leaves out whether some people were saved or unsaved before being healed indicating both types can be healed.
---TL on 2/2/15


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To Whosoever has an ear to hear?

Ask yourself this question and you'll have the answer to the first question of this Blog:

Is there ANY healing, that has come upon a believer or non-believe, that hasn't come from the Power of God?

....and as far as did their healing cause them to become saved? That always depends on their acknowledgement of where their healing came from & their awareness of the fact that they'll need to continueously submit to the Drawing Power of God's Healing Word to stay healed, whole & saved.
---Shawn_M.T. on 12/9/08


God takes action or inaction appropriate and consistent with his preordained plans.
---notlaw99 on 11/21/08


Sin, is the sickness, disease, and torment of the soul. Give praise to our glorious Redeemer who forgiveth all our iniquities, and so healeth all our diseases. Christ, by curing bodily diseases, intended to show that His greatest errand into the world was to cure Spiritual maladies. [Matt.] None was too hard.>>>Lunacy, Palsy, Possession of the devil, which is the greatest misery and calamity of both.
---catherine on 3/16/07


We who have God is not Gods concern it is those that do not know him that he is interested with. I thought as a prophetess you would know that Catherine? There are unsaved people that visit this site and what should someone think if we go propergating a lie that ''Gods only interested in his Chosen people'' LOL
---Carla5754 on 2/26/07


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Jesus healed me when I was 11yrs. old. I was an unbeliever, but my family prayed for me & I was healed.
---Rickey on 2/22/07


God came to save sinners, is true. ofcourse. But guess what. God's main interest is His very own People, whom He has already chosen. The ones whom He has saved through His Blood.
---catherine on 2/22/07


Well since God is for the unbelieving and also he came from heaven just for them (Jesus) that is. Then Of course the unbelieving have been healed and this has caused many to become believers. My mum was prayed for by the church and she came through a double heart bypass and through many dangers toils and snares she Had a testimony that caused her to serve God with a Faith that I thought would never materialize but God is faithful :)
---Carla5754 on 2/22/07


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