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Statues Of The Virgin Mary

Lately I've seen more statues of Mary than of Jesus. Have we become a society of idol worshippers? Does having the statues violate the 2nd commandment?

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 ---martha on 2/21/07
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HI All, Courtesies implied - Matthew 25 - review Nicene Creed and the history of that creed. Careful no judging. Looking for change, be change you want in world, await no one. I converted to RC church,love it,walk your faith, do I fail, sure I do, I'm human, do I ask forgiveness, sure I do! Remember the commandment above all is to love one another and that means all not your favored few(I have trouble here too) but that's the command. Thanks for reading and Peace be with you on your journey of faith.
---tkd on 1/8/08


IT's not just statues of Mary but also statues of Jesus,Peter,Paul,Buddah,etc.They are all wrong.The Bible clearly teaches that idolatry is wrong.Dont try to justify it.It's wrong!
---donald on 12/31/07


statues are like pictures of remembrance.
They are not gods, like the gentiles and pagans used to have.

Jesus is first and foremost.
The focus is always on Him.
The Blessed Mother on the other hand has always pointed to Christ and His Mercy.

No one is taking away from Christ.
And when you die, your soul essence of who you are goes to Heaven or hell.
---lisa on 12/31/07


Parallel NT fulfillment MT 16 KJV -Jesus gives keys (symbolic of Prime Minister to Peter) That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it. And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.
---john on 12/29/07


Hebrews 7:25 Wherefore he is able also to save them to the uttermost that come unto God by him, seeing he ever liveth to make intercession for them.

WOW!..... did you see that??? .... "BY HIM" ... not by Mary.

It sure doesn't say that "Mary ever lives" to make intercession for us.
---Chipper on 5/4/07




Bill :You are probably more Inspired so you hand out your words like Candy.My statement was an AXIOM=A self evident Truth" This above all to thy own self be true."Maybe it was above your head.But that is ok learn the phrase becaus it will serve you well in time to come.
---Emcee on 5/3/07


Shakespear, was eloquent, but he was inspiried by his own vain imagination. How can you compare that with God's inspired Word? Emcee is wrong, don't listen to him. He is speaking from a carnal mind.
---Bill on 5/2/07


Chipper::Great things are written by Great People especially "SELF evident Truths"BTW how do you know Shakespear was not inspired when he wrote the famous words.Or do you wish to disagree with what is evidently a fact:or maybe disagree because you feel disagreeable .
---Emcee on 5/2/07


When we make the sign of the Cross, all we're saying is, that whatever we're about to do, we're going to do it in the name of the Father, and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit.

I think it's a nice gesture and there's nothing to condemn in it.
---Caring on 5/1/07


Lonnie, I hate what others have done to God. Made Him lower than a man, humbled Him so much that even the slightest praise of Mary or any Catholic figure is considered to be blasphemy. I stated a simple fact in scripture and was told that I blashemed. I prefer to remain in a church where the Bible is still the Word of God, even when inconvenient, and God is still the creator and ruler of all things.
---lorra8574 on 5/1/07




Emcee said: ."This above all to thine own self be true"Shakespear.

Friend, Shakespear was NEVER inspired by the Holy Ghost.

Romans 3:4 God forbid: yea, let God be true, but every man a liar; as it is written, That thou mightest be justified in thy sayings, and mightest overcome when thou art judged.

Proverbs 3:5 Trust in the LORD with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding.
---Chipper on 5/1/07


Chipper::All that is born of God & is Holy to God, is of God.Whilst you believe that to be true you must also live the fact or in your lingo walk the talk."This above all to thine own self be true"Shakespear.
---Emcee on 4/28/07


I hate the RCC. I did not say the Catholic people. I hate their church doctrine, because it mirepresents who God really is , and lies to it's people.
---Lonnie on 4/28/07


Clifford::Your post exposes a part or your character which I don't think you should be proud of.It shows you are a wolf in sheeps clothing.Repentance will restore your dignity as a human being.
---Emcee on 4/28/07


Clifford, if you were phoney, it does not mean that everyone is.

And now that you are "true to God" you took the direction of showing your hatred towards the RCC. Very impressive indeed.
---Caring on 4/28/07


When I was a Catholic, we always did the sign of the cross. Now that I left that church for good, and became born again, I don't make the sign of the cross anymore, but I truly serve God now, in Jesus name.
It's like when a guy takes your daughter out on a date and he is very polite to your face, but he's got evil plans for your daughter, so his respect for you is phoney. That's how I was, when I was Cathiolic. I made the sign of the cross, but I was not living for God.
---Clifford on 4/27/07


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Emcee & Catherine12345: Whatever!

I know that my Jesus is alive for evermore and sits on the right hand of His Father, to make intercession for me.

Hebrews 7:25 Wherefore he is able also to save them to the uttermost that come unto God by him, seeing he ever liveth to make intercession for them.

WOW! did you see that .... "BY HIM" ... not by Mary.

It sure doesn't say that "Mary ever lives" to make intercession for us.
---Chipper on 4/26/07


---Chipper said: Catherine, Jesus is not on the cross anymore. He is alive, He is risen.


1 Cor 1:23 "we proclaim Christ crucified, a stumbling block to Jews and foolishness to Gentiles"

Of course He is Risen, but is the Crucified Christ a stumbling block or foolishness to you?
---Catherine12345 on 4/26/07


But it's good to remember what He went through for our sins!!!
---Caring on 4/26/07


**Catherine, Jesus is not on the cross anymore. He is alive, He is risen.**

A Christless cross no refuge were for me.
A crossless Christ my Saviour could not be.
But, O Christ crucified,
I rest in Thee.
---Jack on 4/25/07


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**Why do your priests and parishioners do the "genuflect" thing every time they pass in front of the table in front of the church?...If this is not worship, what do you call it?**

The genuflection is not inteded for either the altar or cross.

Obviously you don't understand the difference between the worship of LATREIA due to God alone, and the relative veneration of DOULEIA or PROSKYNESIS, a distinction the Greek NT itself makes.
---Jack on 4/25/07


Chipper ::Think about this every time WE commit sin we put Jesus back on that cross.???because it was our sins that put him there in the First place.
---Emcee on 4/25/07


Hello Chipper::The sign of the cross is the sign of the christian If you do not believe this you are NOT a christian.This is how Christians used to greet one another in the old old old Days while you were still a speck in the cosmic realm.Or become a Catholic inthe true sence of theword & see what youi have truly Missed .
---Emcee on 4/25/07


Hello Chipper::The sign of the cross is the sign of the christian If you do not believe this you are NOT a christian.This is how Christians used to greet one another in the old old old Days while you were still a speck in the cosmic realm.Or become a Catholic inthe true sence of theword & see what youi have truly Missed .
---Emcee on 4/25/07


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Catherine12345:
The empty cross is the fact that Jesus has overcome death and the grave.

Revelation 1:18 I am he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore,

Catherine, Jesus is not on the cross anymore. He is alive, He is risen.
---Chipper on 4/25/07


Catherine12345:
1 Timothy 6:17 Charge them that are rich in this world, that they be not highminded, nor trust in uncertain riches, but in the living God, who giveth us richly all things to enjoy;

Hebrews 9:14 How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?
---Chipper on 4/25/07


Catherine12345:
Hebrews 9:14 How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?

Hebrews 10:31 It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.
---Chipper on 4/25/07


Chipper said:Why do they keep Christ on the cross? They glory in His death while we glory in His ressurection.
1 Cor 1:23 "we proclaim Christ crucified, a stumbling block to Jews and foolishness to Gentiles"
1 Cor 2:2 "For I resolved to know nothing while I was with you except Jesus Christ, and him crucified."
Galatians 6:14 "But may I never boast except in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, through which the world has been crucified to me, and I to the world."
---Catherine12345 on 4/21/07


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Lorra perfect explanation - as usual.

You know something? I'm not even sure these people really believe their own propaganda

They just do anything to denigrate the Catholics showing their own misery in the process.
---Caring on 4/21/07


Chipper, we genufect and make the Sign of the Cross to GOD, not Mary. The Church is God's house, we built it for Him. We also believe that Jesus is truly present in the Eucharist and therefore He is present in every Catholic Church where a concecrated host is present, or where two or more are gathered in His Name. So yes, we do worship God, what of it?
---lorra8574 on 4/20/07


Ashley said: "They represent the death of Jesus Christ, not His resurrection." (she was speaking of the empty cross).

Ashley, the empty cross signifies that Jesus did die , was buried, and rose again.
He is NOT still hanging on the cross as the catholics depict Him.

Why do they keep Christ on the cross? They glory in His death while we glory in His ressurection. Praise God He is alive for evermore.

Do you glory in death or do you glory in life?
---Chipper on 4/20/07


Lorra and other catholics:
Why do your priests and parishioners do the "genuflect" thing every time they pass in front of the table in front of the church?
Why do catholics make the "sign of the cross" all the time?
If this is not worship, what do you call it?
---Chipper on 4/20/07


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Lorra:
Years ago I talked with an Amish man about why they did not allow themselves to be photographed by anyone, including but not limited to tourists, news reporters, etc. He told me they go by the commandment of God about making any graven images unto yourselves. They feel that a photograph is included in this command. If this is what they want to do, God bless them.
What is your churches understanding of a "graven image"?
I know we are in the New Testament, don't use that excuse.
---Chipper on 4/20/07


Chipper, if Jesus were to sneak out and walk amoung us, I would not expect Him to be wearing first century shepherd garb. But the point of the pictures is to remember that He became man for us. The images give us pause to reflect and to remember. That's what photographs are for now. I have photos of my children from when they were babies. They do not look like that anymore, but I still like their baby photos, it brings to mind an era of innocence. Judge by their fruits.
---lorra8574 on 4/19/07


Chipper P2: God forbade idols and graven images, but these terms have specific meaning. People really did worship idols believing them to be actual gods. The Jews even made a golden calf and thanked the calf for bringing them out of Egypt. That is what an idol is. A graven image is a representative of a god, perhaps even God that is worshipped in the place of the real thing, as if the object could act on behalf of the one it represents.
---lorra8574 on 4/19/07


Chipper P3: Catholics do not believe that their manmade statues can hear them or act on their behalf. We do not believe that either the statues or the ones they represent are divine wrt saints. Even images of Christ are not worshipped for they are only images and do not represent Christ on earth. We do venerate such images, but with the knowledge that the images are not the real deal.
---lorra8574 on 4/19/07


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Yes Chipper:: He may come as a non descript dirty & unkempt would you see the christ in His humility.That is how He came & the world Knew Him NOT yesterday & even today.But when He come Now, (this time) will be in Power & Majesty with Trumpets heralding Him from the clouds Of Heaven.He will have his winnowing wand in His hand.He will reclaim His churchMatt16:17-19.
---Emcee on 4/19/07


Lorra:
My point was that I highly doubt that we would recognize Jesus if He actually walked up to us on the street today... and I think this was all part of the design, so that we would NOT have a visual of Him. We will know Him by the print of the nails in His hands.
If Jesus was here today, he may wear jeans or a three piece suit and tie and have a crew cut.
---Chipper on 4/19/07


Lorra:
In my opinion, I doubt He would have long hair as in artists conceptions, although I believe He may have a beard.
Isaiah 50:6 I gave my back to the smiters, and my cheeks to them that plucked off the hair: I hid not my face from shame and spitting.
---Chipper on 4/19/07


Chipper you are being picky. We have lovely artists renditions in charcoal, ink and paint and in embroidery, sculpture, etc.

We may not know exactly what Jesus looked like, and I am sure that He does not resemble the European versions with the blond hair and blue eyes. But, we do know that He was a man, He lived in Palestine, He described Himself in many ways, including as the Good Shepherd. Know by the fruits that are produced. Good trees produce good fruits, bad trees produce bad fruits.
---lorra8574 on 4/18/07


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Lorra says: "I love pictures of Jesus..."
Really?? I wasn't aware that there were any photographers back then. I've never seen anything but an "artists conception" of what He "may have looked like".

Isaiah 53:2 For he shall grow up before him as a tender plant, and as a root out of a dry ground: he hath no form nor comeliness; and when we shall see him, there is no beauty that we should desire him.

If you're looking for the man in your picture, forget it.
---Chipper on 4/18/07


the cross is the symbol of the death of Jesus Christ, but where on the cross does it indicate His resurrection and that He lives. Every cruxifix I have seen shows the agony and suffering He had on the cross, leading to His death. in no way does it show He rose from the dead and was resurrected, meaning we will live again and live in His kingdom if we are worthy. Many glorify the death, but His resurrection is not shown in any way. Lorra is right. Her picture shows He lives and is our Salvation.
---ashley on 4/18/07


Chipper, you're not the only one who has had someone post using your name. I've had it happen, and the other"Christina" posted about hating someone... however, the web is vast, and I am sure there are many Christina's out there as well as a few Chippers...don't worry what a few may think, just keep your eyes on the Lord and allow the HS to direct your posts.Bless you.
---Christina on 4/18/07


Ashley:
The "empty" cross that christians use but do not worship, is a symbol of "death", namely the death and resurection of Jesus Christ. Jesus told us Matthew 16:24 Then said Jesus unto his disciples, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me.
---Chipper on 4/18/07


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Ashley:
Philippians 2:8 And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.

Philippians 3:18 (For many walk, of whom I have told you often, and now tell you even weeping, that they are the enemies of the cross of Christ:

Galatians 6:14 But God forbid that I should glory, save (except) in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom the world is crucified unto me, and I unto the world.
---Chipper on 4/18/07


Nicely put Ashley. What you have with Jesus depicted on your wall, is all we have with any of our statues, crucifixes or crosses.

I love pictures of Jesus smiling or as the Good Shepherd. My church has an amazing picture of Jesus with a lamb draped across His shoulders in a field of sheep. My church is named Good Shepherd.
---lorra8574 on 4/17/07


For the record, I have never posted anything in a name other than "Chipper". But I have had a few postings by someone using my name. I don't understand how that can happen because it should be proteced by ChristiaNet. Once someone has a user name, no one else should be allowed to use that same name. They should have to post as example: Chipper1 etc. but not Chipper.
---Chipper on 4/17/07


If you have family pictures in your wallet does that mean you are worshipping them? What if you have a coin in your pocket that has an image of a former president? If your children watch a movie about Noah's arc, or do a school play about Moses. Is there idol worshpping going on here? I dont think so.
---Dan on 4/17/07


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many statues of saints and Mary are seen in catholic homes. born again christians denounce them as idol worship. they in turn worship cruxifices and crosses. They represent the death of Jesus Christ, not His resurrection. Talk about the pot calling the kettle black. I have a picture of Jesus on my wall to remember His sacrifice for me, but crosses will never enter my home. To me, Jesus is alive, not dead. The picture reminds me to repent often. study His words and live in His image through his example.
---ashley on 4/17/07


Chipper, there are numerous different statues of saints in Catholic Churches, in Catholic homes and even in their front lawns. It might surprise you to know that some of the statues are not even Mary. My last parish had a statue of St. Theresa. Other have had statues of St. Therese the little flower. Male statues may include St. Joseph, St. Jude, St. Anthony, St. Augustine and yes St. Peter. We also like statues of St. Michael the Archangel and the other Archangels and Angels and Cherubs.
---lorra8574 on 4/17/07


Chipper:It is the unbelievers who call themselves Christians & who Insist we show veneration to others even ABOVE God but that does NOT make it true. If you love your wife & Parents very much does it mean it is above God.NO Of Course not.BTW if your feet need washing You have a volunteer in me you are not Catholic?are you?
---Emcee on 4/17/07


As for the original question regarding the many statues of Mary:
They say they don't "worship" Mary but everywhere you look there are these little alcoves with Mary standing in them. I guess they don't want her to get wet.
I'm surprised they don't have statues of Peter in their yards.
They may as well have flamingos or gnomes or a deer.
---Chipper on 4/17/07


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Chipper, you have used more names than I can shake a stick at. Then you'll use another name to defend the pseudo name.
I know you think you have the wool pulled over everyone's eyes, you don't.
---Farsey on 4/17/07


I am come in my Father's name and you receive me not, another shall come in his name and him you will receive.---- A prophet that comes only in the name of a profit shall receive a prophets reward.---- The least in heaven shall be greater than him. You can not be Jews and follow Jesus, you can not be a christian and follow Moses and the Prophets (profits)
---discipeabct on 4/17/07


Chipper>>> Your apology ----is accepted. What else can I say. Have a Great Day.
---catherine on 4/17/07


My appologies for misdirecting my post to the wrong catherine. I will try to be more careful in the future ... even though there seems to be no way we can know for sure we are talking to the same person on here. It seems that people can and do post in the same names as others, which can really confuse the discussion.
There should be a better way to prevent this.
---Chipper on 4/16/07


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Can someone please explain this seemingly insatiable need for the catholics to venerate and idolize people and things beyond the Holy Trinity??
I'm talking about your pope, Peter, Mary and anyone else you insist on placing equal to or above the one and only savior, intercessor, propitiation, the Lamb slain for the sins of the whole world.

Jesus took a basin with water and a towel and washed the disciples feet. Do you catholics wash each others feet? ... which was a sign of humility.
---Chipper on 4/16/07


Chipper said: Catherine:
"I just read Acts 15 and connot find anything to support your claim about Peter being the "final authority"."

Acts 15:7-12. The debate took place. Peter then talked to the assembly. The debate clearly ended as the assembly fell silent and they continued with the next part of the meeting where Paul and Barnabas described wonders.
---Catherine12345 on 4/15/07


Chipper>>>Catherine did not write that. I know nothing about it. I would have to dig to figure out what in the world you are talking about. Sorry.
---catherine on 4/15/07


Catherine:
I just read Acts 15 and connot find anything to support your claim about Peter being the "final authority".
I do find this: Acts 15:12 Then all the multitude kept silence, and gave audience to Barnabas and Paul,...
Nothing more is said of Peter in this chapter. But a lot is said about Paul, Barnabas, vs 32 And Judas and Silas, being prophets also themselves, exhorted the brethren with many words, and confirmed them.
---Chipper on 4/15/07


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Lorra said: "Paul seems to put himself as equal to Peter but excludes all the others in ministy".
Contrary to what you said, Paul does not EXCLUDE the others from the ministry.
In Act 15:12, Peter has become silent and Paul and Barnabas were given audience.
Acts 15:12 Then all the multitude kept silence, and gave audience to Barnabas and Paul, declaring what miracles and wonders God had wrought among the Gentiles by them.
---Chipper on 4/15/07


The book of Peter was written by Peter about 2 or 3 years after Luke wrote Acts.
I Peter 1:1 .. Peter refers to himself as "one of the apostles". He never elevated himself above any of the others.
1 Peter 1:1 Peter, an apostle of Jesus Christ,...
Also, nowhere else in scripture do we find that Peter is refered to as "The Rock" or having more authority than any other apostle.
---Chipper on 4/15/07


For a long time it has been my thoughts that the 24 Elders in the book of Revelation are the 12 Tribes of Israel and the 12 Apostles. Peter, being one of these, does not seem to leave room for all your popes.
Revelation 19:4 And the four and twenty elders and the four beasts fell down and worshipped God that sat on the throne, saying, Amen; Alleluia.
---Chipper on 4/14/07


Chipper said: "In Gal 2:9 Paul says: And when James, Cephas, and John, who seemed to be pillars, perceived the grace that was given unto me,...
I'm sure if Peter was the rock you claim he is, Paul would have acknowledged this fact, but he didn't.
Read it people, and think! Don't let your church do your thinking for you."

Read Acts 15. Lots of discussion at the first Church Council, the Council of Jerusalem. AFTER PETER SPOKE, the assembly fell silent. He was the final authority.
---Catherine12345 on 4/14/07


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Chipper part 2: 1 Cor 9:5; Gal 1:18; Gal 2:7-8, Paul seems to put himself as equal to Peter but excludes all the others in ministy. 1 Peter 1:1-2, and 2 Peter 1:1 is addressing his epistles to a broad group rather than to individual churches. Paul played a role similar to that of Cardinal Ratzinger to Pope JPII. Peter played an enormous role in the scriptures, more so than all the others (except for Christ), and only the blind would not see that.
---lorra8574 on 4/13/07


How weak you people are depending on what the RCC and Strongs interpretations of the Bible. Doesn't anyone have enough faith in the Holy Spirit to interprete the Bible? Even some weak Christians depend only on the Bible for it's own interpretation. Does anyone have Bible verses to back up what you are trying to personally interprete?
---Steveng on 4/13/07


Chipper, Paul recognised that Cephas (Peter's Aramaic name) was a pillar of the church, but may or may not have been entirely familiar with the heirarchy yet. And even if he was, this was not a critical place to mention it. In other places Paul specifically seeks Peter out, and not just to chastise him for behaving improperly. 1 Cor 15:4-5, Paul puts Peter in a place of primacy by his own words.
---lorra8574 on 4/13/07


Jesus is THE Rock; Jesus is THE Stone; Jesus is THE CORNERSTONE. Keep your Peter, and give me Jesus.
---Eloy on 4/13/07


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Chipper, go to the Unbound Bible and do a parallel reading of both Matthew 16:18 and John 1:42, using the English version of your choice, the received text in transliterated Greek, and your choice of French translation. In both Greek and Latin, the term for rock is a feminine noun and in both cases, the noun is masculinized to fit with Simon who is clearly male. However, in French the term for rock is masculine and in all three spots, in both passages, the word remains unchanged - pierre.
---lorra8574 on 4/13/07


Chipper, You are allowing the English translation throw you. In Greek and Latin, the masculinized versions of the word for rock, do not exist other than in relation to Simon Peter. Petrus in Latin does not mean anything in Latin, other than as a proper name - which we know as Peter. The same occurs in the Greek, petros is not a real word and is specific to Simon Peter, always.

I always believe in the truth, it is you who are in denial.
---lorra8574 on 4/13/07


Lorra and all catholics:
The book of John was written about 80/90 AD.

In Galatians 2:9 (written about 49 AD) Paul says: And when James, Cephas, and John, who seemed to be pillars, perceived the grace that was given unto me,...
I'm sure if Peter was the rock you claim he is, Paul would have acknowledged this fact, but he didn't.
Read it people, and think! Don't let your church do your thinking for you.
---Chipper on 4/13/07


Chipper, also cephas can mean either rock or stone, it is not that specific, even if some Protestant dictionaries wish that it were.
---lorra8574 on 4/13/07


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Chipper, Catholics follow the Magisterium of the Catholic Church, interpretations that are passed on from the Apostles. The whole point of the Magisterium is to pass on faithfully and completely the teachings of Jesus as taught to the Apostles. Strong's interpretation that you quote is not in alignment with the teaching of the Church and Apostolic Tradition.
---Catherine12345 on 4/13/07


Lorra:
I ask you as Jesus asked the Pharisees, why do you violate the word of God for the sake of your traditions?? Don't you believe the truth?

John 1:42 Thou art Simon the son of Jona: thou shalt be called Cephas, which is by interpretation, A stone.

Jesus called Peter "a stone" not the rock.
Check Strongs #3710 = Cephas = "stone"
1) another name for the apostle Peter,

Also check #4074 and #3037
---Chipper on 4/13/07


Emcee,
I'm sure glad he didn't hand those keys over to you. I would be so confused I wouldn't know which way was up.
Mary cannot help you. She is dead.
Jesus told us to not be like the hypocrites who love to pray repeticious prayers so they would be heard for their "much speaking". Does this sound like saying hail Mary's over and over and over and over again. I often wonder if God isn't bored to tears with all this nonsense.
---Chipper on 4/12/07


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