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Was Mary Always A Virgin

Was Mary always a virgin? My catholic friend said yes, but the Bible states Jesus had half-brothers.

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 ---Jacob on 3/16/07
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"brothers" a word commonly used in the era Jesus lived in , was a term used for other people as well....like cousins....aunts..uncles...freinds..neigbors
That doesn't mean the Jesus actually had blood brothers.
The only blood shared was the Blessed Mothers blood in the womb.
She was His only human connection to enter the world. The ark of the New Covenant.
---lisa on 11/25/07


Earl: None of these people you mentioned are Christ's blood brothers or sisters. Come on Martha? She is the sister of Mary and Lazarus. Ruth? Her father's name is Elimelech. To all: Have you read the story of Ruth? Starting in Matthew 1:1-17 is a list of generations from David to Jesus Christ. And in Luke 3:23-38 which is a list from God to Jesus Christ. In all honestly it does not matter if Jesus had blood brothers and sisters. Regardless if he did or didn't, what difference does it make?
---Rebecca_D on 11/24/07


greetings.James,Martha,Miram,Jude,Amos,Simon,Joseph and Ruth were Jesus' brothers and sisters.What Jesus looked like may or may not be a contribution from his earthly parents or even resemble his brothers or sisters but the person who he is, with and or without mortal flesh is the Son of God.People continue to believe that they find favor from God when they remain childless even when taught to multiply.
---earl on 11/24/07


Helen 5378, sorry I forgot to specify - when I say Scriptures I am referring to the Holy Bible, which is where my passages all come from. Were you thinking of some other scriptures?

If it is a matter of interpretation, then take the passages I have given to you and provide me with your interpretation of them.
---lorra8574 on 3/24/07


Helen 5378 For you homework assignment, from any document, any culture and point in history - show me a sentence where a mother visiting her dead son is only identified by the name of a different son than the one she is visiting.

If you can do this, I will concede that you might have a point. Good hunting.
---lorra8574 on 3/24/07




Elder, our adoption does not affect Mary's virginity.

In the first century, they were watching for the Messiah, Herrod knew of His birth through the Magi, and they knew of Him through their studies. The scriptures prophesied about Him, including where He would be born and approximately when and under what circumstances.

Being born of a virgin is supposed to be a sign Isaiah 7:14. No one would have seen this sign except for Joseph, if Mary had gone on to have other children.
---lorra8574 on 3/24/07


**When you proclaim what is not in Scripture then it is false.**

Where does Scripture use the word "Bible"?

Where does Scripture use the word "computer," which you are clearly using?

Where does Scripture say what should be considered Scripture?

Where does the Scripture set itself up as the sole standard.

(Answer to all four questions: Nowhere.)
---Jack on 3/24/07


Mark 6:3: Is not this the carpenter, the son of Mary, the brother of James, and Joses, and of Juda, and Simon? and are not his sisters here with us? And they were offended at him.
---Cynthia_1 on 3/24/07


Lorra 8574 It is just lil' ol' me again with another scripture. Gal. 1:18-20 18) "Then afer three years, I went up to Jerusalem to see Peter, and abode with him fifteen days. 19) But other of the apostles saw I none, save James THE LORDS BROTHER, 20) Now the things which I write unto you, behold, before God, I lie not." If Paul was referring to the apostles as "the Lords brothers" why didn't he say such of James?
---MARK on 3/24/07


Lorra I am not trying to attack anyone here I am just trying to bring you the truth. Mary, if she could reach you, would tell you to keep your eye singlely on the Lord.
---MARK on 3/24/07




Lorra8574 - ("Helen 5378, for someone who is quick to denounce the traditions of others as heresy or false doctrines, why is it that you almost never quote scripture to back yourself up?") -- The reason I have not used Scripture in reply to you Lorra is that what you claim is simply not in Scripture so I cannot use Scripture. When you proclaim what is not in Scripture then it is false.
---Helen_5378 on 3/24/07


The gate may seem like an odd metaphor; however, Jesus chose not to just poof Himself onto our earthly plain. He chose to enter the world as humans usually do, through their mother's birth canal. But unlike us, Jesus did not originate in His mother's womb, His human body was formed there, but He existed from the beginning. Therefore, He did enter through a gateway of sorts. When He returns, however, it will be in His full glory directly from Heaven.
---lorra8574 on 3/23/07


Helen 5378, for someone who is quick to denounce the traditions of others as heresy or false doctrines, why is it that you almost never quote scripture to back yourself up? The rare occassions when you did with me, you worked with the passages I gave you.

I try to back up what I say with scripture, but those who denounce me tend to rely more upon their own faith traditions than the Bible.
---lorra8574 on 3/23/07


Cynthia: show in scripture where Jesus had 8 brothers and sisters. And do not use Matthew 13:55 because in my post on 3/21 I broke it down who the parents were on these 4 men. And the bible does not say who Jesus sisters were. So the way I see it, the truth you so claim is false. Because you have no scripture backing up you statements. these sisters and brothers to Christ are his brothers and sisters in the Lord. Like you and I are sisters in the Lord.
---Rebecca_D on 3/23/07


Jesus was in deed the Messiah, and the gate was metaphorical. After all what was the Lord entering? The Lord was God after all. Ezekiel was a Prophetic book, this is a Messianic Prophecy. And since I have already established that the so-called brothers of the Lord had different parents than Jesus, how can you still insist that they were born of the Virgin Mary?
---lorra8574 on 3/23/07


Jesus had eight brothers and sisters, four boys and three girls. Sorry, but truth is truth whether you like it or not.
---Cynthia_1 on 3/23/07


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Jack, where do you find the phrase Judah and his brothers in the book of Matthew? Also, if 4 different mothers are involved in any family, sons would would still be referred to as brothers if they shared the same father (even though they are actually half-brothers). Please give an actual text for me to check.
---mpa on 3/23/07


Lorra8574 - ("Ezekiel 44:2 prophesies that after the Lord enters our world, the gate by which He entered would be shut. All other gates were opened.") -- You don't honestly expect anybody to even entertain the thought that the gate spoken of here was Mary's womb. Heresy. So, now you are saying that Mary had a gate!! Goodness, what next.
---Helen_5378 on 3/23/07


Lorra 8574 - ("Should we be looking for another Messiah? Because the real one will be an only child.") -- What next is going to come out of your mouth, rather fingers. You're just too much with all your false teachings that you expound all the time on here. Are you saying that Jesus hasn't been yet?
---Helen_5378 on 3/23/07


*Should we be looking for another Messiah? Because the real one will be an only child.
---lorra8574 on 3/22/07 *

Like the Cave man said, "What?" Who said that and where?
Jesus was the only child Mary gave birth to that did not have an earthly/human father.
He was God the Father's only begotten son but not His only son. I am a son also, by adoption.
---Elder on 3/23/07


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**Jesus had four brothers**

There are many places in the Bible where brother/sister is used when there is clearly NO biological relationship.

Matthew 1 refers to "Judah and his brothers," though they were NOT all of the same mother, but FOUR mothers were involved.
---Jack on 3/23/07


Heos often translates as "until". And sometimes, a change does occur afterward and sometimes not - the Greek "heos" does not guarantee a change in state such virgin to non-virgin. Matthew 22:44 is God going to kick Jesus away from His right hand at the fulfillment of this prophecy? Matthew 27:8, I don't know if it stopped being called the Field of Flood, but probably not on that day. Matthew 29:20, is Jesus going to abandon us at the end of the world?
---lorra8574 on 3/22/07


Mary did not have these men, James, Joses, Simon, Judas. As I have broke it down with scripture that these men had parents and Mary was not their mother. Do you people ever read the genealogies of these people and you will see that MARY IS NOT THEIR MOTHER. Cynthia; how do you know that Mary bore more children other than Christ? Well we know that 4 men doesn't belong to her. Who are the other three?
---Rebecca_D on 3/22/07


Cynthia 1, I explained quite clearly that James and Joses and Judas, and by extension Simon, had different parents. And the term brethren is far broader amoung the Jews than it is for 20th Century Gentiles.

Why is it so important for you that Mary had other children? Ezekiel 44:2 prophesies that after the Lord enters our world, the gate by which He entered would be shut. All other gates were opened.

Should we be looking for another Messiah? Because the real one will be an only child.
---lorra8574 on 3/22/07


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Mary had other children, Jesus had four brothers, James, Joses, Simon, Judas. Jesus also had three sisters also. Mary had bore eight children altogether, however, only one immaculate. Jesus, son of God.
---Cynthia_1 on 3/22/07


**But after reading Mt 1:25, it says Joseph "knew her not" until Jesus was born. The meaning of "know her" is sexual relations. Judges 19:25.**

If "UNTIL/EOS (Greek word) in 1:25 means they had sexual relations, then "UNTIL/EOS" in 28:20 means that at the end of the world Jesus will no longer be with us.

It's the SAME WORD used in the SAME PHRASING in the SAME GOSPEL.
---Jack on 3/22/07


Catherine; read my post from 3/21/07 4th down from you post. I broke it down and explained where these men came from and who their parents were. Mary was not the mother of any of them. Mary didn't remain a virgin not because of other children, because I truely don't know and neither does anyone else. But after reading Mt 1:25, it says Joseph "knew her not" until Jesus was born. The meaning of "know her" is sexual relations. Judges 19:25.
---Rebecca_D on 3/22/07


Catherine, Mark 6:3 does not say that Mary had other children.
---lorra8574 on 3/22/07


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m.p.a. Cat got your tongue (or fingers)? How did I do? Have I answered all of your questions satisfactorily?
---lorra8574 on 3/22/07


The three leaders of the Reformation, Martin Luther, Ulrich Zwingli, and Jean Chauvin (John Calvin), all believed and taught the perpetual virginity of the Virgin Mary.
---Jack on 3/21/07


Mary was a virgin until after she had Jesus. After she and Joseph returned to Nazareth, she gave birth to other children. [Mark 6-3.]
---catherine on 3/21/07


Rebecca D, Thanks for your aid. You should be aware that I wasn't pulling passages at random, they were deliberately chosen because of who they specifically referred to, and not just generally by name.

I would not think less of Mary if she had given us the example of a large family, but the fact that so many people accuse my church of telling lies when it is so clear from scripture and history that Mary remained a virigin.
---lorra8574 on 3/21/07


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The funny thing is that traditional or conservative Catholics generally have large families. Protestants typically (not all) have much smaller families - initially supported by the idea that Jesus' family example was small and therefore acceptable.

Now that the trend is toward a larger Christian family example with Mary and Joseph having a huge number of children, will Protestants start having large families too?
---lorra8574 on 3/21/07


There was a typo in my last reply, Judas is the son of Simon, not the son of a son. Silly me. Ps 12:6-7 is talking about the faithful people the Lord shall perserve them and keep them forever.
---Rebecca_D on 3/21/07


James is the son of Zebedee and Salome, Mk 1:19, Joses is the son of Eliezer, Luke 3:29, Simon (Peter) is the son of Jona, Jn 1:42, Judas is the son of a son of Simon, Jn 6:71. Ps 12:6-7 has nothing to do with whether or not Mary had other children. None of these men were the son of Mary, so that is telling me that what it says in Scripture in Mt 13:55 that these men were brothers in Christ to Jesus. Just as I am a sister in Christ to all of you.
---Rebecca_D on 3/21/07


m.p.a. Here is a question for you to consider. Mark 15:47, Mark 16:1 - let us suppose for a moment that Jesus never existed and Judas was the brother that died of the flu. Are there any literary examples in the history of the world where one would say that the mother of James went to annoint Judas? Instead of the mother of Judas went to annoint him? Or the mother of Joses when to behold Judas in his tomb? Would we ever say that today?
---lorra8574 on 3/21/07


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m.p.a. P2 If I said that the Judas' mother went to behold or annoint him (Judas) that would not mean that she was not also the mother of James and Joses. But if she were NOT his mother, then we would have to identify whose mother she was.

Matthew 28:1 Mary Magdalene went to the tomb with the "other Mary". There were three Marys at the foot of the cross. A mother would not be listed as "the other Mary", left to be confused with her sister.
---lorra8574 on 3/21/07


m.p.a. P3

This Mary, the mother of James and Joses, is also the wife of Cleophas, even though James may have had a different father.

The simplest solution is the easiest. The NT authors were not afraid to name Mary as the mother of Jesus, they did so on many occasions, so why step around this at a crucial scene? Because it was Mary's sister that went to the Tomb with Mary Magdalene.

James and Joses were therefore cousins of Jesus and would be labelled as brethren in the Bible.
---lorra8574 on 3/21/07


Rubon: yeah and that helper is the Holy Ghost, it sure isn't Mary. To me it doesn't matter if Mary had other children. It isn't going to affect my walk with God. The most important thing to know is Jesus and believe upon him. It really shouldn't matter to anyone if Mary had other children.
---Rebecca_D on 3/20/07


Rebecca D, In the Word of God; Mt 13:55 it says "Is this not the carpenter's son? Is not His mother called Mary? And his brethren James, and Joses, and Simon, and Judas?" Argue with God on this. Ps 12:6-7 "The words of the Lord are pure words ....O Lord Thou shalt preserve them...FOREVER."
---MARK on 3/20/07


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... Jesus ... taught them in their synagogue, insomuch that they were astonished, and said, Whence hath this man this wisdom, and these mighty works? Is not this the carpenter's son? is not his mother called Mary? and his brethren, James, and Joses, and Simon, and Judas? And his sisters, are they not all with us? Whence then hath this man all these things?
(Matthew 13:53-56)
Question: Did Joseph alone have these children? Certainly not! Did he marry another wife? My Bible has no such record!
---theod3582 on 3/21/07


Jesus was the first biological son of Mary. She was still a virgin when she gave birth to Jesus. But after that she was still married to only Joseph. Joseph didn't have another wife in addition to Mary, nor did he divorce her! The bible however records the names of some of his brothers and sisters read my next post ...
---theod3582 on 3/21/07


Jesus grew up in a normal family with parents and brothers. Jesus' Nazareth critics listed them in Mark 6:3 as James, Joses, Juda, and Simon.Their names appear again in the parallel passage of Matthew 13:55, except Joseph is used as the alternate spelling of Joses (see NASB). The risen Christ appeared to one of them, James, and he became the leader of the church in Jerusalem (Acts 12:17; 1 Cor. 15:7).
---Barbara on 3/21/07


m.p.a. One more to consider:

Luke 1:31-34

The Angel was speaking of a future event (not immediate), and Mary was betrothed to Joseph and by now probably had that little mother daughter talk. So when the Angel announced that she would conceive and bear a child, the expected response for someone entering into a normal marriage relationship would have been "that's wonderful" or "Joseph will be pleased to have a son". What did Mary answer? "How can this be...?"
---lorra8574 on 3/20/07


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Rebecca-I ask you what difference does it make if Mary had other children?


Because Jesus said " I am sending you a helper, and he will lead you to all truth." The Bible says the "Church is the pillar and foundation of the truth." 1 Tim 3:15
---Ruben on 3/20/07


This arguement has went on and on and on. I'm sorry but it is a stupid thing to argue over. I ask you what difference does it make if Mary had other children? If you read Gen 29:15, does that make Laban and Jacob blood brothers? No, they were brothers in the spirit. Christ tells his disciples they were all his brothers in Mat 28:1-8. In 1 Cor 15:6 Jesus appeared to 500 brethen. So those of you believe Jesus had blood brothers, name all of them, and we will break it down the genealogy of Christ.
---Rebecca_D on 3/20/07


m.p.a. As for your last question, on which side of the family Mary's sister Mary is on - not a clue. It could be Mary, as it was not unheard of to have siblings with the same name, but I am more inclined to think that she was related to Joseph. I would have to go extra-Biblical to see if there is more information on Joseph's family, but I didn't want to do that for this exercise.
---lorra8574 on 3/20/07


m.p.a. Last P2 As mentioned previously, sister Mary was currently married to a Cleophas, but this is not necessarily the Cleopas also mentioned in the scriptures. Some have suggested that Cleophas and Alphaeus are the same person (it was common to have two names, but usually one Hebrew and one Roman), but the simplest solution is likely the best - widows could and did remarry.
---lorra8574 on 3/20/07


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Helen, how many women do think were there in that upper chamber? We have the Apostles, Mary the mother of Jesus, likely Mary Magdalene, Mary wife of Cleophas (aunt to Jesus), Joanna, Salome, and perhaps a few more women. Do you expect me to believe that the remaining brethren making up the rest of the 120 people were all blood brothers. Even with polygamy that would be an impressive number of offspring, but impossible for one woman.
---lorra8574 on 3/20/07


m.p.a. I have another one for you.

Luke 2:40-46 - Mary is still with Joseph, no sign of Alphaeus, which could mean that we could possibly have a plethura of James. Except, there are no James here either. No James, no Judas, no Joses, no Simon, no sisters. It has been 12 years, yet Mary has not produced any more children. If she were barren, Jesus couldn't have any brothers, but if she wasn't what was she waiting for?
---lorra8574 on 3/20/07


m.p.a. part 2
Note also, I have three younger brothers and a sister, and three sons and a daughter, and my parents came from larger families still. As an expert on brothers, I can tell you that if Jesus had any siblings, Mary and Joseph would not have made it out of Jerusalem before one of them ratted Jesus out.
---lorra8574 on 3/20/07


m.p.a. When I was younger I believed that it didn't matter whether Mary remained a virgin or not. I was hip, I was cool, and I was modern - so what? But that was before I started really studying the Bible. It wasn't the Church that brought me to believe that Mary was ever virgin, the Bible showed me that this was so. Further, the Early Church Fathers beleived it. And the major players of the Reformation also believed it and defended her virginity in writing - from the scriptures.
---lorra8574 on 3/20/07


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Lorra8574 - ("Acts 1:13-15, the apostles and Mary the mother of Jesus, the women and the brethren are together in a room, their number totaled about 120. That would make for a huge number of brothers if they were all sons of Mary.") -- Acts 1:14 reads "..and with His brothers." That comes straight after "Mary the mother of Jesus". You need to read it again. Jesus' brothers in the flesh were there at the Upper Room prayer meeting.
---Helen_5378 on 3/20/07


m.p.a. p4 Brethren
The term brethren is used far more widely in Judaism.

See Matthew 5:47, it would seem a little narrow if we only treated our immediate family well.

Acts 1:13-15, the apostles and Mary the mother of Jesus, the women and the brethren are together in a room, their number totaled about 120. That would make for a huge number of brothers if they were all sons of Mary.
---lorra8574 on 3/19/07


m.p.a. P5
From the OT I give you:
Genesis 12:5 and Genesis 14:12 Lot is Abrams brothers son (nephew)
Genesis 13:8 Abram calls Lot his brethren
Genesis 14:16 Abraham identifies Lot as his brother

Jews were not that particular. And even though the NT is now all in Greek, Jesus preached in Aramaic, His followers spoke Aramaic as their first language and the oral tradition of the NT was originally in Aramaic.
---lorra8574 on 3/19/07


m.p.a. P6

What we see in the NT, the Virgin Mary is frequently identified as being the mother of Jesus, but you never see Mary the mother of Jesus and James, or Jesus and Joses, or any other combination. James, Joses, Judah and Simon are listed as brothers of Christ, but not as sons of Mary the mother of Christ. We have a number of other Marys.

Mary mother of Jesus
Mary Magdalene
Mary wife of Cleophas who is also sister or sister in law to Mary the mother of Jesus
---lorra8574 on 3/19/07


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m.p.a. P7

There were other Marys as well, but not so closely connected. Brethren can denote fellowship, or common roots (same neighbourhood or community), or common ancestry, or closer relationships such as cousin or brother.

James the Less is the son Alphaeus, not Cleophas or Joseph. Jesus' mother was married to Joseph, but was alone when Jesus gave her into John's care. So she was not likely married to Alphaeus.
---lorra8574 on 3/19/07


m.p.a P8
It is possible but not likely that the virgin Mary would have outlived two husbands.
Her "sister" Mary is currently married to Cleopas, but that does not rule out her having been married to Alphaeus previously.

During Christ's crucifixion, where would Jesus' mother be expected? At the foot of the Cross, never having left His side since His first step on the road to Golgotha.
---lorra8574 on 3/19/07


m.p.a. P9?
We find Mary there in John 19:25 and identified properly as His mother. Others moving in and out of the picture.

In Matthew 27:55-56 we have many women who had followed Jesus and ministered to Him in Galilee - Mary Magdalene, Mary the mother of James and Joses, and the mother of Zebedee's children (Joanna?). But a mother would never leave her son to die alone.
---lorra8574 on 3/19/07


m.p.a P10
Matthew 27:61 shows Mary Magdalene going to the tomb with "the other Mary", since when is the Mother of Jesus, the other Mary???

Who is this other Mary? See Mark 15:47 Mary Magdalene went with Mary the mother of Joses to the tomb. And Mark 16:1 Mary the mother of James came to annoint Him (Jesus). This is the proper role of family, like a mother or an aunt.
---lorra8574 on 3/20/07


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m.p.a. P11

Now if Jesus mom were the "other" Mary, then why not identify her as Jesus' mother? She is going to anoint Jesus for burial, this would be the appropriate to identify her as His mother, if that were the case.

But she was this other Mary, then why did Jesus give His mother into the care of a man who was NOT her son, when there were at least four other sons and possibly some sisters whose legal duty was to take care of their widowed mother.
---lorra8574 on 3/20/07


m.p.a. P12
Then we have James epistle, James 1:27 extoling the virtues of caring for widows and orphans? If he were the Virgin Mary's actual son, that would make him one monumental hypocrite. Here he is speaking on the care of widows while Jesus wouldn't even let him look after his own mom???

Jesus was also outspoken on care of widows, see Matthew 15:3-7

No worries, James was a cousin to Jesus and very likely did look after his own mother, also named Mary, wife of Cleophas.
---lorra8574 on 3/20/07


m.p.a P13
I have read that some consider there to be many more James in the Bible and that James the brother is not the son of Alphaeus; however, after the James son of Zebedee is martyred, the NT seems to assume that we will know who James is when he is named, this would only work if James was a single person and not a collective. Read through the NT.

Note also the Apostles, Jesus spends a lot of time with Peter, James and John (of Zebedee).
---lorra8574 on 3/20/07


m.p.a. P14, ok I couldn't resist:

In addition to Matthew 5:47, check out John 7:3-5. Here are Jesus' brethren again, but in spite of having been raised by Mary and Joseph and regailed with stories of Jesus' miraculous birth and birthrite, didn't believe in Him. Yet we know that this can't be entirely true, Acts 12:17 suddenly they are faithful again? Acts 15:13, suddenly they are important? Galations 1:9 Paul found James the Lord's brother. Change of heart, or matter of interpretation?
---lorra8574 on 3/20/07


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One small detail. While I do not beleive that the brethren were from Joseph from a prior marriage, I overlooked a matter of Jewish practice in royal succession. David was the eighth child, not the first, and Solomon was not the first born son to David, therefore, if Joseph had sons from a prior marriage, this would not have affected Christ's Kingship, as I suggested in an earlier post.
---lorra8574 on 3/19/07


m.p.a. per my promise.
From Matthew 13:55 and Mark 6:3 we have suggested brothers by the name of James and Joses and Simon and Judas.

From Luke 6:15-16 we have a James the Son of Alpheus and a Judas who is either the son or brother of James (may be a different James, but probably not).

See Jude 1:1, Jude (probably aka Judas) identifies himself as a brother (close relative) to James (he assumes that we will know which James).
---lorra8574 on 3/19/07


m.p.a P2
Mark 15:40 and Matthew 27:56 identifies a Mary as the mother of a James the Less and a Joseph or Joses (Joses is Joseph)

James the Less or Small has this addition to separate him from James (brother of John and son of Zebedee) aka James the Greater in tradition. Just so we all know that James the Less is The Apostle James and not some other, and Joses is his actual blood brother, and Judas is closely related to this same James.

Are you still with me?
---lorra8574 on 3/19/07


m.p.a. P3
So now we have James the Less, son of Alphaeus being also the son of a woman named Mary who is also the mother of Joses, and possibly Judas, but not necessarily. More than once Mary is identified as Mother of James and Mother of Joses, but is never identified directly as mother of Judas. We can assume but that is not the same as proof.

More on the different Marys and the Brethren to follow.
---lorra8574 on 3/19/07


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I can see how you read it that way, mpa, but the fact that she didn't depart the temple (vs 37) makes more sense in reference to the remark about her virginity. This would also explain why her husband lived only 7 years after their marriage, being that most were given in marriage to the care of widowers when they reached puberty.

According to tradition Mary's parents took her to the temple to be consecrated when she was three and she lived there until age twelve. con't
---augusta on 3/19/07


2. "And when she was twelve years old there was held a council of the priests, saying: Behold, Mary has reached the age of twelve years in the temple of the Lord. What then shall we do with her?"

"and, behold, a dove came out of the rod, and flew upon Joseph's head. And the priest said to Joseph, Thou hast been chosen by lot to take into thy keeping the virgin of the Lord. But Joseph refused, saying: I have children, and I am an old man, and she is a young girl"
---augusta on 3/19/07


3. This is from the Protoevangelium of James. The Orthodox Church even celebrates Mary's presentation to the Temple, if I'm not mistaken, so Jack would probably have more information on this.

It is very compelling because Joseph having children from a former marriage clears up all the problems with the brothers named in Scripture. And there are lots of problems there. I've been through all of them and it's nearly impossible to make them work out to be Jesus' full brothers.
---augusta on 3/19/07


Let me ask you something here. Why would Mary remain a virgin? For what purpose?
---Joseph on 3/19/07


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Does it really matter if Mary remained a virgin or not? those of you whom think she did, then so be it. and vice versa. After being married, I had intimate relations with my husband. Isn't that what all of you did have a "relationship" with your spouse? It isn't shameful, it isn't wrong, and beside the fact God told us in the beginning that (parapharsing) when a married couple see eachother naked it was not shameful. So le-it-go.
---Rebecca_D on 3/19/07


m.p.a. Of course, but with an 85 word limit per post I want to arrange it in a discernable format. It takes several passages to link everyone together as Mary the sister (who stood with the Virgin Mary at the foot of the Cross) is not easily linked to Alpheus the Father of James the Less, but I can show that both were connected through their common son. I should have some time tonight to post the scripture passages (I often do use scripture passages whenever I can fit them in - check my other posts).
---lorra8574 on 3/19/07


Emcee, frankly, my friend, I don't care where you rank me. My position in Christ is the only one I am concerened with. Your attacks and name calling explain, all to well, your character.
---Ryan on 3/19/07


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