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Is Drinking Wine A Sin

Is drinking wine a sin? Didn't Jesus drink wine? If it's a sin then why did he turn the water into wine?

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Jesus made wine, John 2:3-11.
A curse to not be able to drink it, Isaiah 1:22, 24:11, Micah 6:15.
Offerings, Exodus 29:40, Numbers 15:4-10.
Medicine, 2Samuel 16:2, Proverbs 31:6, 1Timothy 5:23.
Made glad, Psalm 104:15, Ecclesiastes 10:19.
A blessing, Genesis 14:18, Proverbs 9:2, 5, Ecclesiastes 9:7, Isaiah 25:6, 55:1, Amos 9:14, Zechariah 10:7, Matthew 26:29, John 2:3-11, 1Corinthians 10:16.
Drunkenness forbidden: Esther 1:10-12, Proverbs 20:1, 23:29-35, 31:4-5, Isaiah 5:11, 28:7, Hosea 4:11, Joel 3:3, Amos 6:6, Luke 21:34, Romans 13:13, Ephesians 5:18, 1Timothy 3:8, Titus 1:7.
Priests in tabernacle, Leviticus 10:9. Nazarites, Numbers 6:3.
Consider weaker brother, Romans 14:1-15:7, 1Corinthians 8:3-13.
---Glenn on 5/16/09


"Seventh seal "Prove it was fermented wine in Timothy's Stomach. Prove that Christ was the wine bibber you want Him to be."

Prove it wasn't."

Fermentation is a sign of spoilage (sin). Just because others accused Jesus of being a winebibber doesn't mean that He was. They lied through their teeth and hoped it would stick--for some it has.
---djconklin on 2/2/09


Is drinking wine a sin? Didn't Jesus drink wine? If it's a sin then why did he turn the water into wine?

Because it isn't a sin.
People are drunk in the Bible.

You can't get drunk on Grape Juice.
It is impossible.
You will vomit only because of the sugar in the juice and volume of fluid.
No one has ever gotten drunk on grape juice.
---Nicole on 11/9/08


MARTY: You are so very welcome!
---Gena8493 on 11/6/08


Drinking wine was sin to the Rechabites.
See Jeremiah 35.
---Nana on 9/28/07




Jesus came to a people sitting in darkness,getting intoxicated. He was about to change their lives with a new and better way. Eph 5 Dont become intoxicated (drunk) with wine, but (instead) be inebriated by my Holy Spirit! Paul tells Timothy not to drink water exclusively but take it with a "little wine" Think for a minute, we chlorinate our water to prevent decease. Could it be? Come on! But those who love wine stay near it.
---steve on 9/26/07


John, If this were the case then the Jews who still celebrate the Pesach (Passover) would only use grape juice for the four cups of wine during the Seder. However, while grape juice is permissable, the tradition is to use actual red wine (Kosher, of course).
---lorra8574 on 9/20/07


John, read also Numbers 28, the drink offering throughout is "strong wine" not unfirmented wine, even during the passover. Since the point of communion is to share a meal with God, it seems unlikely that He would be consuming what He had forbidden His followers from consuming at a such a meal.
---lorra8574 on 9/20/07


Seventh seal "Prove it was fermented wine in Timothy's Stomach. Prove that Christ was the wine bibber you want Him to be."

Prove it wasn't.
---NurseRobert on 9/20/07


Old and New Testament use the words TIYROS and YAYIN to refer to grapejuice and wine. LXX regularly translates these words (including in the instances when they refer to grapejuice) to OINOS.

Sometimes the word Oinos means grapejuice and sometimes it means alcoholic wine. The problem is not that they didn't understand what they were saying, but in translation.

Jesus would of used unleavened bread, and therefore would of also used wine/grapejuice that was also unleavened ie, unfirmented.
---John on 9/20/07




krpls: Prove it was fermented wine in Timothy's Stomach. Prove that Christ was the wine bibber you want Him to be. You cant, because He is not and does not do what the unwise do.

Drink if you will. There is no 11th Commandment to that effect and know that scripture says it is not wise. Just do not make Christ out to be filled with leaven when He was not.
---SeventhSeal on 7/20/07


7S: prove that well known word chymos was not available to the Gospel writers in the Koine Greek. Prove from Scriptures that oinos was unfermented when praised and fermented when cursed.

Prove that they would have ignored the Hebrew understanding of a difference between wine and grape juice.

While you're at it, prove that a little wine (e.g. enough to be good for Timothy's stomach) makes one drunk, any more than reasonable eating makes one a glutton.
---Ktisophilos on 7/19/07


SeventhSeal - You are both naked and still blind!

Re 3:18 I counsel you to buy from me (the Lord) gold refined by fire, so that you may be rich, and white garments so that you may clothe yourself and the shame of your nakedness may not be seen, and salve to anoint your eyes, so that you may see.
---lee on 7/19/07


Rabbi: Its not minor. "A little leaven leaveneth the whole lump" Christ had no leaven in Him
Wine refers to Doctrine, drunken doctrine is just that. It leads to a "Woman riding a Scarlet & Crimson beast holding in her hand a golden cup of abomination"
Roman Church holds this cup filled with leaven declaring Christ resides in that pompous cup. She says this surrounded by Cardinals wearing Scarlet and Crimson who bow to a man called Pope and pray to a dead Mary for intercession
---SeventhSeal on 7/19/07


klopolis: Was chymos ptolemiac Greek of Jesus day? C'mon be honest. Spiritually Christ is our example. Did He drink Juice? Probably. Did He get drunk? Never. Unleavened represents His body, by default must represent His Blood. Can't have unleavened body with leaven in your blood

Christ said at Passover, Spring time, I will not drink of this "Fruit of the Vine" until I drink it "New" in the Kingdom. How God got fresh Juice in the Spring needs no answer.
---SeventhSeal on 7/19/07


Seventh Seal- We agree that the Messiah was never drunk. We disagree on the point that He never drank wine at all. In defense of this argument I used several scriptural verses in support, such as Mattityahu (Matthew)11:16-18. I hope that we both agree that this is a minor difference (salvation, grace, the life, death and resurrection of the Messiah, and much more)are of more importance. Though we disagree we can both shake hands and call each other brother. Shalom, brother.
---Rabbi_Dean on 7/19/07


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Lee: You are still naked.
---SeventhSeal on 7/19/07


Yes SeventhSeal, gospel writers used Greek, and as I said, there was a perfectly good word for juice, chymos. But they were Hebrews well versed in the OT, so knew there was a difference between wine and grape juice.

Your position is reading modern teetotalling legalism into Scripture, rather than letting Scripture determine morality.
---Ktisophilos on 7/19/07


**How God got fresh Juice in the Spring is not something I need to answe*8

What makes you think He did, other than your a priori assumptions?
---Jack on 7/18/07


Seventhseal - *Lee: Why do you hate the Adventist?*

I guess some people mistake differences of viewpoint as hatred.

Speaking of hatred, olde Ellen White had a deep hatred for the bride of Christ, the church condemning it and accusing it of being corrupt.



---lee on 7/18/07


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Seventhseal - *You ignore scripture & spiritual discussion in favor of denomination bashing.*

And what scripture do I ignore?

Christians live under the New Covenant, not the Old one declared obsolete by NT scripture.

You may not have ever read Hebrews 8:13

"In speaking of a new covenant, he makes the first one obsolete. What is obsolete & growing old is ready to vanish away."

Why seek to adhere to those religious tenets given only to the Jews?
---lee on 7/18/07


Lee: Why do you hate the Adventist? You ignore scripture and spiritual discussion in favor of denomination bashing. Clearly the Word of God is not upon which you stand. Stick to the Scriptures...and stop ignoring the ones given you. The Pharisees went to seminary, which one did you attend?
---SeventhSeal on 7/18/07


Rabbidean: Appreciate your comments. Yet, looking spiritually we see Christ as our example. Did He drink Juice? Probably. Did He get drunk? Never. Unleavened represents His body and by default must represent His Blood. You can't have an unleavened body with leaven in your blood

Christ said at Passover, Spring time, I will not drink of this "Fruit of the Vine" until I drink it "New" in the Kingdom. How God got fresh Juice in the Spring is not something I need to answer
---SeventhSeal on 7/18/07


Ktsphls: Gospel writers use Greek not Hebrew
Greek: oinos and theres no distinction between fermented and unfemented
Christs body represented by Unleavened Bread, His blood is pure and thus unleavened also
Christ said He would not drink again of this "fruit of the vine" until He drinks it "New" in His Kingdom
Spiritual things are spiritually discerned, Christs symbol for blood is as pure as He is
Be a winebibber just do not call My Savior one to support your habit
---SeventhSeal on 7/18/07


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SeventhSeal, we've been through this already. It is eisegesis to translate oinos as wine when bad and grape juice when good. There was an unambiguous word for juice, chymos. And the Nazirite vow forbade both wine and grape juice (Numbers 6:3), showing that the Hebrews distinguished them clearly.
---Ktisophilos on 7/17/07


TS - *Chipper/Kathr/Prodigal/SeventhSeal - I wish you would go back to Bible School.*

If they did, they would probably find more arguments to disagree with your position.

We know that as many pastors & theologians have left the Adventist movement upon studying the Scripture and finding that much in Adventism cannot be supported either by Scripture or church history.

In summation, knowledge of the Word of God is a very dangerous thing to Adventism.
---lee on 7/17/07


Seventhseal: You are right, I should not have stolen your handle and made false accusations about you.
---TS on 7/17/07


August(a), either way, you observe correctly. I have observed the same religious 'ranting and raving', 'blathering and foaming', the same mouthiness that was there when T.S. arrived on the blogs. The names change, alot, but the content is always the same.
---KCee on 7/17/07


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Warwick: Greek uses "Oinos" which can mean fermented or unfermented. Jesus told them to drink a little "oinos" because acid in juice aids digestion and helps kill bacteria

The fact He said to be Sober indicates we are not to be drunk. Fermented product leads to drunkeness and unholy behavior. Only where medicinal purposes are needed is fermented product to be used

Wine is symbolic of Christs Blood and His Blood is pure. And so is the "oinos" He refers to.
---SeventhSeal on 7/17/07


Thanks, R.Dean for the clarification. A few of us made the same statements a few weeks ago. You have some legalistic denominational believers that have distorted Scripture to suit their new laws/commandments. Some are fundamental holiness that have manmade holiness definitions (works).
---KCeeopolis on 7/17/07


What a foolish argument. You folk could be defending the truth of God's Word against deceivers or out spreading the Gospel but you prefer to argue about whether we can drink wine or not -we can!

In the NT the word wine occurs many times- Jesus created wine, Timothy was told to drink a litte & we are told not to be drunk on wine. Every time it is the same word in Greek-it means alcoholic wine. Unfermented wine is an oxymoron.

Rabbi Dean thanks for your knowledgeable input.
---Warwick on 7/17/07


Rabbi we should all agree though that drinking for the purpose of getting drunk is a sin. I agree with you thoguh in that drinking a little wine isn't a sin, and to use wine for medicinal purposes was a commandment. (1 Timothy 5:23)
---Matthew on 7/17/07


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That's funny, TS. I was thinking you sound alot like Seventhseal yourself.

"Only a Devil would accuse Christ of being a Winebibber."

"YOU are the one saying "behold a winebibber and a glutton" just like Christ's other false accusers."

You posted the very same things ^ when you first came here.

Good movie, though (The Seventh Seal). Actually it's one of my favorites. :)
---augua9846 on 7/16/07


TS- I believe you used B'Midbar Numbers) 6:2-4 as a supporting verse for your discussion. These verses are about Nazir (Nazarene) vows. These verses cannot be used to support that the Messiah was from the line of the Cohens, since this vow could be taken by all of the people of Israel (v.2), both men and women(v.2). Yeshua was a Natzrati (from Natzeret or Nazereth). Nowhere in the Tanach (OT) does it say that Yeshua would be a Nazir, rather Isaiah 11:1 calls him a netzer (a shoot from a branch).
---Rabbi_Dean on 7/16/07


TS-Jewish tradition before the birth of Messiah had wine being used at Pesach (Passover).The Last Supper was the first night of Passover meal (Matt 26:20-29). Jewish tradition was to drink wine, not grape juice, at the Passover. The Mishnah commands that even the poorest person must drink the minimum four cups, even if he had to work extra or borrow money in order to buy the wine. Traditionally there were 3 cups of wine that were drank. Yeshua Himself added the fourth cup the Cup of Redemption.
---Rabbi_Dean on 7/16/07


TS- Thank you for holding in there with me. The "fruit of the vine" could not be grape juice. We agreed that freezing food was not possible in biblical Israel. The grape harvest begins in the Jewish month Elul (August-September)and ends before Sukkot (D'varim 16:13) on Tishri 15-21 (September-October. Pesach (Passover) is Nisan 14 (April), or seven months after the grape harvest. Technically, it would be impossible to have anything but wine.
---Rabbi_Dean on 7/16/07


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TS-. Mattityahu 11:16-18 Yeshua said, "Oh, what can I compare this generation with? They're like children sitting in the marketplaces, calling out to each other, 'We made happy music, but you wouldn't dance! We made sad music, but you wouldn't cry!'For Yochanan came, fasting, not drinking- so they say, 'He has a demon.' The Son of Man came, eating feely and drinking wine-so they say, 'Aha! A glutton and a drunkard!" Luke 7:33-35 says this too. Thank you very much, and I await your reply.
---Rabbi_Dean on 7/16/07


Ts Thanks for the response. With all of the arguing, I hope to have a friendly discussion. Before we run I need to let you know where I stand. I don't drink anything harder than Coca-Cola (except an energy drink occasionally). However, the use of alcohol is considered fine in Jewish teachings and customs even among the most Orthodox Jews, including Messianic Jews. I don't drink wine because of a medical condition, and I don't want to be a stumbling block to others, not because I believe it is a sin.
---Rabbi_Dean on 7/16/07


Chipper/Kathr/Prodigal/SeventhSeal - I wish you would go back to Bible School.
---TS on 7/16/07


Rabbi: So the distinction would be that fermented product is unholy and common. Thanks for pointing that out. Christ is not common, neither is His Blood...Pure Unfermented Wine is symbolic of His Blood rather than common liquor.
---Seventhseal on 7/16/07


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The Bible says don't get drunk with wine, but with the Holy Ghost, and beer and wine are mockers - stay away from them. Jesus drank only unfermented wine (wine without alcohol), He also turned the water into unfermented wine.
---Leslie on 7/16/07


Seventhseal - *In the US "Your Term" implies perversion. You may be too out of touch to understand the culture.*

Frankly you are the one that is out of touch as such a term has always been considered offensive.

Read a dictionary of common vulgarity & you will soon realize that.

It is best not to resort to name calling as that in itself is offensive.

Col 4:6 Let your speech be alway with grace, seasoned with salt, that ye may know how ye ought to answer every man.
---lee on 7/16/07


If I were a nonchristian reading all the nasty, uncharitable comments generated in some of these blogs, I very well might conclude that Christianity brings more evil than good into this world....
---JohnS on 7/16/07


Lee: In the US "Your Term" implies perversion. You may be too out of touch to understand the culture. And his name was Jack, and quite appropriate. But there will always be those with carnal minds taking thier thoughts to seek perverse meaning.
---Seventhseal on 7/16/07


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Rabbi: The Pharisees accussed Christ of being a Glutton and a WineBibber. Those on this board use those lies to support that Jesus drank femented wine. He did not. He was a Levite, a Rabbi, Commanded in the Torah to abstain.
---Seventhseal on 7/16/07


Seven whatever is Kathr.
---TS on 7/14/07


Is it me, or does anyone else think the language is becoming filthier by the day?
I suppose it is an accurate reflection of hearts and the condition of the Church.
It is disturbing, especially the graphic slang.
---Bob on 7/14/07


SeventhSeal-1. "ADONAI said to Aharon, "Don't drink any wine or other intoxicating liquor, neither you nor your sons with you, WHEN YOU ENTER THE TENT OF MEETING, so that you will not die....So that you will distinguish between the holy and the common, between the clean and the unclean". Vayikra (Leviticus) 10:8-10. It was done so they would destinguish between the holy and the common. NOT that they were supposed to abstain from wine completely.
---Rabbi_Dean on 7/14/07


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SeventhSeal-2. If God did not want wine to be consumed at all, why did He tell Moshe in Vayikra (Leviticus) 23:13, "Its grain offering is to be one gallon of fine flour mixed with olive oil, an offering made by fire to ADONAI as a fragrant aroma, its drink offering is to be of wine, one quart (CJB)?
---Rabbi_Dean on 7/14/07


3. Biblically the commandment is do not get drunk, although messing with strong drink is playing with fire. "Wine is as good as life to a man, if he drink it in moderation (Ben Sira 31:27). Of course, it is also said, "Wine is a bad thing. It makes you quarrel with your neighbor, it makes you shoot at your landloard, it makes you-miss him" (Gabrilowistch. qCMH, 140)
---Rabbi_Dean on 7/14/07


Seventh Seal-The first time the word "winebibber" appears is in Proberbs 23:20, "Don't be on of those who guzzle wine (winebibber), or of those who eat meat to excess, for both drunkard and glutton will become poor-drowsiness will clothe them with rags!". No one has posted Yeshua (Jesus) as a wine guzzler/drunkard. He did turn the water into an "adult beverage". If he did drink wine on Shabbat (drink it, not get drunk from it), would He be any less perfect and any less God?
---Rabbi_Dean on 7/14/07


SeventhSeal - *Jackoff is someone Jerking People around with lies.*

A better descriptor in that case would have been 'jerkoff', not 'jackoff' as the latter implies a sexual connotation.

And who gave you the right to accuse others of being liars? Are you some kind of superior being? The accuser of the brethren is Satan.Rev. 12:10
---lee on 7/14/07


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drinking is not a sin,like almost everything else, if you drink too much then that is when drinking becomes a sin.
---becky on 7/14/07


Are not those who resort to name calling actually carnal Christians? I hope seventheSeal you can retract those remarks as they can be very hurting.
---MaryG on 7/13/07


Even if SeventheSeal's blog did "slip by" the mods, why is it still here today?

Even the mods on my secular boards wouldn't have posted that, and if it did get by them they would have removed it ASAP.
---augua9846 on 7/13/07


QUEEN: LOL! Coming from the Humble Queen herself?
Jackoff is someone Jerking People around with lies. Elijah called false Prophets on it, Christ called them Hypocrites! and so do I

Should the Queen humble herself and submit to the authority of Scripture rather than Pope and drop her Holier than thou attitude?

You claim to have seen Hell? The Fire that gets poured out on this planet at the end or the Myth Propagated by the Roman Beast and an overactive imagination? Which one?
---SeventhSeal on 7/13/07


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Only a Devil would accuse Christ of being a Winebibber.
---SeventhSeal on 7/13/07


Jesus did not drink wine at Passover for the same reason he did not drink on the cross (Matt 27:34) He kept Himself free from the effects of a depressant. He felt every hair pulled from His beard, every whip on His back, every hammer blow on the nails going through His body. Most of all He was able to feel the full effect as His Father placed the sin of the world on His shoulders, and His Father turned His back on the Him. It wasn't because of a rule, it was because of Love.
---Rabbi_Dean on 7/13/07


Seventh, you can have all of the bible knowledge in the world and still end up in hell. If you do not have the love of Christ ruling and reigning in your heart, than you are none of his. Put to practice in your life the scriptures. Calling names is NOT Christlike, the bible says that we will know them by the fruit that they bare, and your fruit is extremely bitter. You need to humble yourself,repent to the lord in Jesus name and then ask the people here for forgiveness.
---queen on 7/13/07


There have been many judgemental words written by those who choose not to drink alcohol.

Scripture says we're not to be drunkards or gluttons but we're never told not to eat food or drink wine. The difference should be obvious.
Jesus used wine to represent His blood at the last supper-good enough for Him, good enough for me. If anyone does not want to eat meat or drink wine then that's a choice. I don't condemn, so how about ceasing to pour condemnation on those who choose to drink wine?
---Warwick on 7/13/07


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SeventhSeal- Shame on you! I hope your proud of yourself that you got one past the moderator. Anything you type will have no validity since you have shamed yourself and this site with such silly name calling. I guess we know who will find the smallest rock to crawl under, don't we?
---Rabbi_Dean on 7/12/07


"---SeventheSeal...They said "behold a winebibber and a glutton" because he drank wine and ate food, but the accusation was false because he was not a wine-bibber, which is drinking excessively.
Drinking in moderation is not "wine-bibbing or drunkenness, any mor ethan eating sensibly is gluttony
---alan_of_UK on 7/12/07


Jackoff: YOU are the one saying "behold a winebibber and a glutton" just like Christ's other false accusers. They were retards and thier accusations were false my inebriated fiend. Read the bible and the references I gave and stop defending lies.
---SeventheSeal on 7/12/07


Not in my opinion. The Bible tells us that a glass of wine for the stomach's sake is ok. We are also told to do things in moderation,also that we are not to be drunk with wine. Drunkeness is not acceptable.

However, alcoholics should never drink anything containing alcohol. There is spiritual deliverance available for them, if they seek it. There is a spiritual battle to be won.
---pat on 7/11/07


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OH, and a glass of wine a day for the stomach's sake, means a small glass, NOT a water goblet full !! Excessssssssive! :)
---pat on 7/11/07


**Christ abstained.**

* W * R * O * N * G * !!!

"Behold, a winebibber and a glutton," was one of the slanders hurled at Him PRECISELY because He did not.

His first miracle was making several hundred gallons of WINE--not grape juice.

And just what do you think was in the cup He blessed at the Last Supper? Sunny Delight?
---Jack on 7/11/07


You be the judge: Prov.20:1"...whoever drinks wine is NOT wise,Now if you're not wise, you're a Fool, Psa.53:1 The FOOL said there's no God.Why did Jesus do what he did, "He was at a party of FOOLS!
Leaving Sin, has to be your choice, He won't force you.
---Charla on 7/11/07


You be the judge: Prov.20:1"...whoever drinks wine is NOT wise,Now if you're not wise, you're a Fool, Psa.53:1 The FOOL said there's no God.if u don't believe there's a God, you are a SIN- NER.
Why did Jesus do what he did, "He was at a party of FOOLS!
Leaving Sin, has to be your choice, He won't force you.
---Charla on 7/11/07


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Drinking wine is not a sin, in fact Paul told Timonthy to drink a little wine for his infirmity. Some Christians choose to drink wine and some don't. Just like some choose to marry and some don't. Drinking wine is only a sin when the person drinking it is at risk of becoming addicted or getting druck.
---Marcia on 7/11/07


Christ drew the line at abstinence!

Priests Commanded abstain "lest ye die"
Christ abstained. Jesus was of Judah and Levi through David-Bathsheeba via Solomon
Bathsheeba's dad is Ammiel, called Eliam 1chr4:4, 2Sm11:3
Ammiel listed as LEVITE 1chr26:5, 1chr26:17
Note "Solomon Sacrificed" in the temple and "Fire Came down from Heaven and consumed" the sacrifice. Only Levites performed service in the Temple
Jesus our High Priest abstained and so should we
---TS on 7/11/07


kathr - *Exactly where does one draw the line when it comes to drunkenness?*

Good question! Being drunk is defined as "having the faculties impaired by alcohol: dominated by an intense feeling, relating to, or caused by intoxication".

Much depends upon the strength of the alcoholic drink, body weight, food already on the stomach, etc.

In any case, one needs to be responsible and consider the welfare of others.

---lee on 6/19/07


*Exactly where does one draw the line when it comes to drunkenness?*

I think some have already drawn before they take their first sip. I think what God really looks at is your intention.
---Matthew on 6/18/07


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1 Timothy 5:23
Drink no longer water, but use a little wine for thy stomach's sake and thine often infirmities.

When wine is drank for medicinal purposes there is nothing wrong with it. I know a woman who has a real problem digesting her food. She drinks a little wine to help the digestion. Are you telling me what she does is wrong? Please.
---Matthew on 6/18/07


2)
If you were in the middle of nowhere and someone with you lost a limb and there was nothing but alcohol to ease the pain would it be wrong for Him to drink it? If anestesia is not wrong for that purpose then why should alcohol be?
---Matthew on 6/18/07


Lee: Exactly where does one draw the line when it comes to drunkenness? I know what humans consider legally too drunk to drive etc, but what is God's cut off? Can you find the scripture. On a scale of our's compared to God's, Is 1/6 th or 1/10th of our legally drunk limit drunk to God. Do you think He goes by OUR standards? What about sin, is just a little white lie, or about 1/6th of of a big lie a sin still...in God's eyes.?
---kathr4453 on 6/18/07


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