ChristiaNet MallWorld's Largest Christian MallChristian BlogsFree Bible QuizzesFree Ecards and Free Greeting CardsLoans, Debt, Business and Insurance Articles

The Holy Trinity For Salvation

Do I need to believe in the Holy trinity in order to be saved?

Join Our Christian Penpals and Take The Trinity Bible Quiz
 ---nora on 4/3/07
     Helpful Blog Vote (10)

Post a New Blog



God gave us His story as witness-again and again of the love He has for us. There is more then one Story-He tells us the End from the Beginning of all Things-Heaven and Earth,things seen and unseen.

Definition of Ab-everlasting in Is9:6.
A repetition of time-from a Beginning to and end-End to a beginning-again and again.
From Aleph who is silent to the Word that was spoken.From the prophetic seed of the Mashiach to the Son of the Father. Whos' Face that was hidden to a Face revealed.
A story of A Groom and His bride to a Husband and Wife. Father to child-Son. Redeemer of the His love for giveness.
To a New Heaven etc...
We Praise Him for His mercy and Grace.
---char on 7/9/10


God gave us His story as witness-again and again of the love He has for us. There is more then one Story-He tells us the End from the Beginning of all Things-Heaven and Earth,things seen and unseen.

Definition of Ab-everlasting in Is9:6.
A repetition of time-from a Beginning to and end-End to a beginning-again and again.
From Aleph who is silent to the Word that was spoken.From the prophetic seed of the Mashiach to the Son of the Father. Whos' Face that was hidden to a Face revealed.
A story of A Groom and His bride to a Husband and Wife. Father to child-Son. Redeemer of the His love for giveness.
To a New Heaven etc...
We Praise Him for His mercy and Grace.
---char on 7/9/10


Christ is not eternal unless you deny His Resurrection.

And yes, Hab12:1 [we shall not die] is [who die not] within the Massorah. I encourage a copy of manusripts-have and learn- the bibical Hebrew.

This transfers the resurrection to God alone-so the what was considered a correction was made-transferred to mortal men vs God "Who only hath immortality" 1 Tim 6:14-16-1Cor 15:53-54

Gods Words come from Within Him-They have gone out and will not return Void.

God alone conquered Death.
---char on 7/8/10


Here is the beautiful thing about God.
His Word is final.

Gods' Word comes from within Him.
Until spoken-It was Hidden-Within.

Olam-everlasting,concealed vanishing point until a time according to the Will of God to be expressed.
Qedm-Of ancient time-before.The Word in the beginning-before spoken.
Circling in time-condensed with truth-Doorway to Yehavah-believing in His Word-Yeshua.
Who brings you out of chao's into the light redeemed by His Blood.
The Door and Mashiach was of the tribe of Judah-true judge all authority given over mankind.Rev3:20

The Holy Spirit teaches and reveals using all the definitions to these Words.
---char on 7/9/10


MarkV

Really?

Did you actually read the post(s) below where many noteworthy translations render the Hebrew word 'matsaah' as 'origin'?

Check your facts. In this case I made it easy for you by doing a little reasearch and then posting the results for your convenience.

You're welcome.
---scott on 7/8/10




Scott, in Habukkuk 1:12 the Hebrew 'qedem' is used of God, and in Micah 5:2 of the coming ruler signifying their eternal nature. Aleph and Tau applied to both God and Jesus also signify their sovereignty, eternal nature, and all encompasing reality.

It is critical to understand what the Hebrew for 'origins' means in context "whose origins are from old, from ancient times"-literally "days of immeasurable time." As pointed out these two terms when together "convey the strongest assertion of indefinite duration of which the Hebrew language is capable."

The conclusion is innescapable, that Micah was saying Jesus is eternal God, and no amount of cutting and pasting changes anything.
---Warwick on 7/8/10


Scott, the word "origin" is not found in my KJV Bible for Micah 5:2. It is in the New World Translation, and on the NIV, which is not a good rendering of the words.
The words, "whose going forth are from of Old" are words called "Qedhem" and use as an Adv. "before of Old" and the passage ends with, "From everlasting" not as quoted on the New World Translation, where it says, "from the days of time indefinite."
By using the word Origin, you want to give Christ a beginning. Maybe not you, but the New World Translation.
---Mark_V. on 7/8/10


Scholar C.D.Ginsburg on Habakkuk 1:12:

"All the ancient records emphatically state that this exhibits the corrected text by the Sopherim and that the original reading was: 'Art thou not from everlasting? O Lord my God, mine Holy One, thou diest not.' The parallelism plainly shows that this is the correct reading. The address in both clauses is to the Lord who is described in the first clause as being from everlasting and in the second clause as never dying or enduring for ever. The introduction, therefore, of a new subject in the plural with the predicate 'we shall not die' thus ascribing immortality to the people is contrary to the scope of the passage..."

'Massoretico-Critical Edition of the Hebrew Bible', 1897,p.358.
---David8318 on 7/8/10


The rendering "we shall not die" at Habakkuk 1:12 in KJV is from the Masoretic Hebrew text as changed by the sopherim.

Repeated reference is made to God at Habakkuk 1:12. With this fact the words "we shall not die," a reference to the people, is inconsistent. After all, the issue is with regard to Jehovah's 'eternality', and not that of humans.

The correct rendering "you (Jehovah) do not die" presents no inconsistency with the context of the verse. Other translations agree with this correct rendering- "you do not die"- eg. 'An American Translation', and 'Rotherham's', are but some.

Jehovah is eternal in both directions. Christ is not eternal unless you deny the death of the Christ.
---David8318 on 7/8/10


Why don't you answer me? Is it because this verse disproves the lie you keep on repeating?
******

communion of Holy Spirit which DWELLS IN Believers? proves IT is a person how? ...unsure how ONE verse supports antichrist trinity theory much MUST be IMPLIED in choosing 2Corin 13:14

SEEING a dozen verses IGNORE Holy Spirit as a person when BOTH The Father and Christ are mentioned

endless contradiction by implying ideas within ONE verse in a vain attempt to cling to the pagan trinity given to you by rcc? YET religious christianity insists ONE LONE VERSE IMPLIES an idea that is unsupported by a dozen others?

BOND of communion through the power of Gods Spirit among those whom The Father has called to truth
---Rhonda on 7/8/10




According to God-His Word came from within Him.Jn1:1-15,Is55:11
His sheep will know His voice.
Wisdom of men His foolish.
He has told us The End from the beginning-
This does not change-From everlasting to everlasting-Out of His mouth-spoken.
I encourage understanding the Hebrew perspective-and the ancient Hebrew letters-manusripts.
But-it is God who confirms His Word-Himself-
Holy Spirit with us now.
Yehovah alone gets ALL Glory.
He Spoke-Words became flesh-He teaches-He Is HOLY-We Praise Him for His mercy and Grace.
Believers,
Stay focus-keep your eyes on the seed.
Gen3:15
Ex4:21
Thus said the Lord, Israel [is] my firstborn

Father-kinsman redeemer-Husband-Yeshua.Is9:6,Jer3:1
---char on 7/8/10


Micah 5:2 - Origin (3)

"[O]rigin is from olden times, from most ancient days" Isaac Lesser.

"[O]rigin is of old, of long descent."MO.

"[O]rigin is of old from ancient times."NAB.

"[O]rigin goes back to the distant past, to the days of old." JB.

"[O]rigin is from ancient age, from the days of old." George R. Noyes

"Origin is from early times, from the days of time indefinite." NWT

"Whence comes he? From the first beginning, from ages untold!." Ronald Knox, (KN)

"[O]rigins are from of old, From ancient days." AT
---scott on 7/8/10


Micah 5:2 - Origin (4)

"[O]rigins being from of old, from ancient days." BY

"[O]rigins are from of old, from ancient times." NIV.

"One whose origins are far back in the past, in ancient times." The Revised English Bible, (REB), 1989.

"[O]rigins stretch far back to days of yore." Leslie C. Allen in, The New International Commentary of the Old Testament.

"[C]omings forth [defined as origin in the footnote] have been from of old from the days of age-past time." RO

"[C)omings forth are of old, From the days of antiquity. Robert Young, (YO). In his Concise Critical Bible Commentary, Young defines olam as hidden time.
---scott on 7/8/10


Micah 5:2 - Origin

"...we must not restrict [motsaah] (his goings forth) to the appearance of the predicted future Ruler in the olden time, or to the revelation of the Messiah as the Angel of Jehovah even in the patriarchal age, but must so interpret it that it at least affirms His origin as well...the words affirm both the origin of the Messiah before all worlds and His appearances in the olden time... [motsaah] can only affirm the going forth from God at the creation of the world, and in the revelations of the olden and primeval times.

Carl Friedreich Keil and Franz Delitzsch. Biblical Commentary of the Old Testament, The Twelve Minor Prophets, Vol. II, pp. 480-1.
---scott on 7/8/10


Micah 5:2 - Origin

"The context, however, very clearly defines this going forth as the bringing forth by she which travaileth (v.3), as the birth of a human child by a human mother,Scripture speaks of another birth of this Child, born at Bethlehem of a human mother. God Himself, speaking to His Anointed, the Messiah, tells Him Ps. 2:7 [You are my son, today I have become your father.] Wisdom the Son of God speaks of His birth before all times (Pro. 8:22-31)...It is to this birth in the timeless eons of eternity that Micah refers here."

Theodore Laetsch, Bible Commentary on the Minor Prophets, pp. 271-2.
---scott on 7/8/10


"...whose origin is from of old, from ancient days" - RSV, cf. JB, NEB, REB, NAB, NIV, AT, Mo, NRSV, NJB, Byington, and Young's.

Origin: "a coming into existence" - Webster's New World Dictionary, 1973.
---scott on 7/8/10


Read These Insightful Articles About Cholesterol


Scott further to Micah 5:2 you contend that "origins" means Christ is a created being. However the Hebrew word translated as 'origins' in the NIV means "goings out" or "goings forth." The NASB and the KJV, in fact most translations render this as "goings forth" or "going forth." The Septuagint, a Greek translation of the Hebrew, translates it this way also.

Therefore 'origins' does not relate to physical beginnings, but to his activities which are eternal. Only God is eternal.
---Warwick on 7/8/10


The Word-origin?--within God Himself-who is Eternal.

Is 55:11So shall My Word be that goeth forth out(mowtssah) of My mouth, it shall not return unto Me void, but it shall accomplish that which I please, and it shall prosper[in the thing] whereto I sent it.
Micah-The Word of the Lord...(Yeshuah)
1:3 For behold the Lord-Yehovah cometh forth out of His place,and will come down, and tread upon high places of the earth.
5:2 But [thou]Bethlehem Ephratah, though thou be little amoung the thousands of Judah, yet out of thee shall He come forth unto me That is to be ruler in Yisrael Whose goings forth(mowtssah)from of old,from everlasting(kedem)

Yeshuah-Word of God eternal-became flesh and dwelt amoung us Jn1:1-15-Is9:6,Mat1:20-23
---char on 7/8/10


I will continue to encourage learning the inspired definition to Hebrew Aleph-bet.
The root letters along with understanding the hebraic perspective locks in place, the acrostic to the true meaning behind God as Alpha and Omega-Aleph to Tav.
The Word of God is inspired by God down to each letter.

1Cor2(all)
But which the Holy Spirit teaches, comparing spiritual things with spiritual...
vs 16 without change-
For who hath known the mind of the Lord, that he may instrucht Him? but we have the mind of Christ.

1Jn2:26-29
...But the anointing which [ye]have received of Him abideth In you, and ye need not that any man teach you,...
---char on 7/7/10


Scott Micah 5:2 talks of Christ "whose origins are from of old, from ancient times."
This is Micah's affirmation of Christ's eternal nature.

This verse is saying Christ's 'origin' is in eternity. According to Jamieson, Fausset and Brown p 600, these two terms, when used together convey "the strongest assertion of infinite duration of which the Hebrew language is capable."

Further 'qedem' refers to God's eternality in Habakkuk 1:12 and Jesus' eternality in Micah 5:2.

Micah under Holy Spirit's inspiration was making sure his readers grasped this coming one was God Almighty Himself.

Jesus being Creator cannot be created.
---Warwick on 7/7/10


Read These Insightful Articles About Lasik Surgery


Warwick,
As always, fascinating to watch you avoid the simple and direct point. And that, again, is the Hebrew word rendered "origin" at Micah 5:2.

The word you are referring to is olam. It can mean according to Strong's:

"long duration, antiquity, old, ancient" or..

"...everlasting, indefinite, eternity, etc."


So although 'olam' has a sense of ambiguity because of the various ways it can be translated, Matsaah does not.

Therefore no matter how long in the past (untold billions of years perhaps) there was a 'matsaah', yes an origin to Christ's existence, a beginning, a 'springing forth'.

It's simply what the word means, like it or not.
---scott on 7/7/10


Scott Micah 5:3 speaking of Christ reads "whose origins are from old, from ancient times." "From of old" put together with "from ancient times" conveys the strongest assertion of infinite duration of which the Hebrew language is capable. This means Christs 'origins' are from eternity. Surely you are not claiming Micah 5: 3 says Christ is both created and eternal, in the one sentence?

I read your comments but was unable to discern your point.

However it would seem your point, even your 'raison d'etre'is to prove Jesus is not fully God and fully man. The full meaning of Micah 5:3 shows you are incorrect.

As you know "from of old' is equally applied to Jehovah God in Habukkuk 1:12.
---Warwick on 7/7/10


David you duck and weave.

Habakkuk 1:12 reads "are you not from everlasting?", using the exact word applied to Christ in Micah. This word 'qedem' which in this context obviously means eternal (being applied to Jehovah God) is used of Christ in Micah 5:2.

However Micah 5:2 continues with "from ancient times." Interestingly "from ancient times" literally means days of immeasurable time. Taken together "from of old" and from ancient times" convey the strongest assertion of infinite duration (eternity) of which the Hebrew language is capable.

Therefore Christ is no creature but eternal God.

Habakkuk actually says we will not die, not you will not die!
---Warwick on 7/7/10


Thanks scott,

I am refering as before to Isaiah 9:6.
In doing so-I am referencing the context and the definition of the letters.
The book of Lamentations can help define the meaning of each letter-however-the definition to the Word-Father and Counselor are already defined within the context.

The Child is called Mighty God and Everlasting Father. The scripture confirm it in Mat 1:23-24-He is named Immanuel,God with us. Again confirmed in Jn1:1 The Word Became Flesh-just a few as it's witness.
---char on 7/7/10


Shop For Church Seating


\\John 1:1 CLEARLY has TWO beings no other "OPTIONS"

dozen greetings to Church of God the Apostles open their greetings to The Father in Heaven and Christ

NOT ONCE do they greet another "person"\\

Rhonda, is 2 Cor 13:14 just not in your Bible?

This is NOT the first time I've asked you this.

14The grace of the Lord Jesus Christ, and the love of God, and the communion of the Holy Ghost, be with you all. Amen.

Why don't you answer me? Is it because this verse disproves the lie you keep on repeating?
---Cluny on 7/7/10


God alone confirms-counselor-and knows His Word.
Wonderful Counselor-
God is Aleph to Tav-Alpha and Omega
Bk of Lamentation-

Hebrew-letters for Counselor
yod-ayin-tsade-
yod-Lamentation-is the form all letter begin and end-Within every letter-Prasie God.Defined as the "hook" of creation-the "doorway" of creation
Ex: Y'hovah,Y'shuah,Y'israel etc...
Ayin-"To see" to understand-spiritual light of God-Lamentations,jer5:21
tsade-Lamentation-to wait.
Scripture witness:
1Cor 2
without change vs 16
For who hath known the mind of the Lord, that he may instruct Him? But [we] have the mind of Christ.
---char on 7/7/10


Char,

I'm having difficulty deciphering your comments.

Perhaps if you just selected one point that you would like to discuss I could offer some sort of response.

It may be me, but your expressions are a little cryptic.
---scott on 7/7/10


Scott-Key word-'FIRST'-
//It's important to examine the actual language of the inspired test to understand//- Agreed-you may have missed my reference to this very statement---
I will continue,
Is9:6-Gives us the definition of context.
God calls the Child-Eternal Father. The Hebrew Word for this is Ab. The witness spoken and confirmed in Mt 1:20-23-Immanuel-God with us.
Hebrew Ab-[inspired letter to text]
(a)Aleph-ox which means Strenght- Father
(b)Bet-family,house,In
Ab-ba-Father-house-In
Scripture witness-Jn10:30 I and Father are One
Jn14-Believest thou not that [I]am IN the Father, and the Father IN ME? the Words that [I] speak unto you I speak not of Myself,but the Father That dwelleth IN ME,[he] doeth the works
---char on 7/7/10


Read These Insightful Articles About Bullion


"I am looking first at the plain english..." Char

God's word was not written in English (plain or otherwise). And it's impossible to translate, word for word, from Hebrew, Greek or Aramaic into English...no matter how careful a translator or translation committee is.

With that in mind it's important to examine the actual language of the inspired text to understand, and to get the sense of, any particular passage.

We benefit greatly from reading God's word in our own language, but there are shades of intrinsic meaning that only becomes apparent when we dig a little deeper into the original biblical languages.
---scott on 7/7/10


Since all three Persons--Father, Son, and Holy Spirit--are involved in our salvation, which Person do you think is optional?
****

Apostles and Christ never HAD another "OPTION" of Holy Spirit as a person

John 1:1 CLEARLY has TWO beings no other "OPTIONS"

dozen greetings to Church of God the Apostles open their greetings to The Father in Heaven and Christ

NOT ONCE do they greet another "person" ...it would be impossible for Apostles to forget OPTION of including this fictitious "other person" seeing rcc didn't borrow trinity concept until 325AD

seeing Christ was ONLY ONE with The Father you must be IMPLYING Christ forgot this other "OPTION"
---Rhonda on 7/7/10


There is only One Mighty God-Everlastling Father.
Is 9:6 Defines the definition of God-El' within the context,
" The Mighty God, The Everlasting(Eternal) Father"
the context defines the meaning and is in reference to the Child who is the Word of God that is the one of the prophecy spoken of.
God's Word became flesh-there is only One God-no other-every Word of God proceeds out of the mouth of God.

According to Is9:6 this is in reference to Yehovah-Who is beginning and end-Is44:6-9
Jn1:1 In the Beginning was the Word...Word became flesh
---char on 7/7/10


God said-He is the Beginning and the End Is44:6-8 besides Him there is No God-no other Rock-not one.
Jn1:1 tell us His Word Became flesh-is called Immanuel interpeted-God with us.

God declares He is El'(Hebrew letter Aleph and hebrew letter Lamed=A and an L)- the scripture defines as possessor of Heaven and earth.
Gen 14:18-22

Each Hebrew letter defines and holds it own definition.
Aleph means Father and Lamed means authority as a shepherd performs-the scripture defines as possessor of Heaven and earth-the Hebraic perspective is all things-omnipotent-all presence.
Gods'-Word-Truth(emet)from Aleph to Tav-Alpha/Omega-With each letter.Is 44:6,Rev 1:8
The Word became Flesh-Jn1:1-15
ONE-Zech 14:9,Deut 6:4
Jn 10:30
---char on 7/7/10


Read These Insightful Articles About Menopause


Thank you scott for you reply.

I am looking first at the plain english written in Is 9:6 as stated previously.

The Child who is confirmed in Mat 1:20-26 is Immanuel-interpeted -God with us within the same chapter as Jesus.

Along with Jn1:1 states The Word became flesh-clarified and confirm within the same chapter as Jesus-the Word that became flesh.

Is9:6 God spoke the prophecy of The Child who's name will be called Mighty God-Everlasting Father Prince of Peace.
The clarity cannot be changed.
This is just the english-I will continue.
---char on 7/7/10


That is an interesting scripture in Habakkuk 1:12. It doesn't apply the word 'origin' to Jehovah as it does in Micah 5:2 to Jesus.

But what Habakkuk 1:12 does say with regard to Jehovah is "O Jehovah? O my God, my Holy One, you do not die".

Salvation depends on accepting and exercising faith in the death of the Christ. (Matthew 20:28, John 3:16)

Here again is further scriptural evidence that Jehovah was not and is not Jesus Christ.

At Habakkuk 1:12, it is clear that Jehovah does "not die".

Thus Jehovah is not Christ. Jesus is not AlmightyGod because God cannot die. How can the trinity lead to salvation if Christ does "not die"?
---David8318 on 7/7/10


Since all three Persons--Father, Son, and Holy Spirit--are involved in our salvation, which Person do you think is optional?
---Cluny on 7/7/10


Char,

Great question(s). Let me just start with your understanding of the Hebrew word 'El'.

I'm curious about the definition that you've posted because Strong's Concordance provides this meaning for 'El':

1) god, god-like one, mighty one
a) mighty men, men of rank, mighty heroes
b) angels
c) god, false god, (demons, imaginations)
d) God, the one true God, Jehovah
2) mighty things in nature
3) strength, power

"El', then, does not automatically refer to YHWH or Jehovah.

Note that Ezekiel 31:11 employs the word 'El' in reference to Nebuchadnezzar. ('God" YLT, 'ruler' NIV, 'mighty one' others).
---scott on 7/7/10


Read These Insightful Articles About Christian Penpals


"Scott I am not sure what point you are trying to make..." Warwick

Feel free to actually read my comments (for what they are worth) before posting some sort of contradictory opinion.

It's clear that I referred, not to 'kedem', rendered generally as "from of old" or "distant past" (ESV) but to...

'Motsaah'...

...rendered (by most) as origin. Note the lexical meaning of this Hebrew (word found at Micah 5:2) in my previous post, as well as a simple dictionary definition of the word 'origin.'
---scott on 7/7/10


Scott and David-
God spoke to Isaiah:Is8:5
God calls the Child-Mighty God-Everlasting Father-El'omnipotent-
Is 9:6,Mat 1:1-25-Immanuel-God with us.
Jn1:1 Tells us the Word was in the beginning and the Word became flesh.
Is9:6
Unto us a child is born...
A Son given...His name shall be called Wonderful Counselor,The Mighty GOD,Everlasting Father.

Again, Why?
I have-will wait for your reply.
---char on 7/7/10


Scott and David-

Jn 1:1 states

In the beginning was the Word,and the Word was with God and the Word was God, The same was in the beginning with God, All things were made by Him, and without Him was not any thing made that was Made.

vs 14-And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt amoung us,(we beheld His glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

This is the Child of prophecy God Himself SPOKE OF WITH HIS WORDS-before they BECAME FLESH... in Is 9:6

Unto us...Child...Mighty GOD...EVERLASTING FATHER...
---char on 7/7/10


So trinitarians believe Christ was 'God the Spirit' when he was on earth. John 4:24.

John said it is anti-Christ those that teach Christ did not come in the flesh- 1 John 4:2,3. Of course, trinitarians will use various forms of unscriptural trinitarian 'psycho babble' to twist their way around John's words, trying to explain Christ was both flesh and spirit at the same time.

1 Timothy 3:16 says regarding Jesus that "He was made manifest in the flesh", not God. The Greek word for 'He' is similar to 'God'. Trinitarians use 'God'. Should the word 'God' be used or 'He'?

If we take the trinitarian view, 1 Tim.3:16 also teaches that 'God was... received up into glory'. (KJV) Received by who? God? How can God receive God?
---David8318 on 7/7/10


Read These Insightful Articles About Accounting


Trinitarians continue to promote the anti-Christ idea that Christ was 'fully God'. John said it is the anti-Christ expression which teaches Christ was not flesh. (1 John 4:2,3)

This is so because the trinity teaching (ie Christ is God who is 'a Spirit') in fact cancels out 'the Christ'. How can 'the Christ' also be 'God the Spirit'? (John 4:24) That's the teaching John warned against in his first letter.

"Trinity... describe(s) God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Spirit". (Warwick 7/5/10)

This is a quotation straight out of Warwick's Neo-platonic, trinitarian text book. Where does the Bible say 'God the Father, God the Son, God the HS'? Show where the Bible say's this- it will help answer your question.
---David8318 on 7/7/10


Scott I am not sure what point you are trying to make about Micah 5:2. However if you are suggesting "whose origins are from of old" means that God the Son is a created being then you are in error. Read Habakkuk 1:12 which also uses "from of old" referring to Jehovah God!

If you claim "from of old" in Micah 5:2 means God the Son is a created being, then to be consistent you must be saying Habakkuk 1:12 says Jehovah God is also a created being!

In reality these two Scriptures mean both the Father and the Son are one and the same eternal Almighty God.
---Warwick on 7/7/10


David and Scott-Why is it the child is called Alighty God-Everlasting Father etc....
The Hebrew word used for God in this scripture is EL-defined as Omnipotent.
Is9:6
For there has been a child born to us, there has been a son given to us,and the princely rule will come be upon his shoulder. And his name will be called WONDERFUL COUNSELOR,MIGHTY GOD, ETERNAL FATHER, PRINCE OF PEACE.

It is further confirmed in Mat 1:23-25
...and they will call his name Immanuel, which means, when translated, "With Us Is God"

I have will wait for you reply.
---char on 7/6/10


As the Word and His Spirit proceed from the Father, So does/did Christ Jesus. Christ did not give up being His Word when He entered a moment in time, but gave up His authority as the Word to enter in His creation. The air He breathed, He created. He came into His own and they knew Him not. Human reasoning cannot fully comprehend or explain this, yet people still try. It is the Spirit that guides us in all truth, for as the heavens are above the earth, His thoughts are higher than ours, yet Christ knew them. Of course you will bring up the second coming, but Christ did empty Himself of alot to be our replacement for a debt we could not pay.
---micha9344 on 7/6/10


Read These Insightful Articles About Fundraisers


"God is...not a creature." Warwick

That's certainly true of the Father, but there is enough scriptural evidence regarding God's Son in this regard to give any serious bible student reason to avoid jumping to hasty conclusions.

Mic 5:2 "...out of you will come for me one who will be ruler over Israel, whose origins are from of old, from ancient times."

Origin= Hebrew 'Motsaah'.

Origin= "Rise or derivation from a particular source...the first stage of existence, beginning..."

Gesenius's Lexicon regarding Motsaah- "Origin, springing..."

Strong's- "Origin, place of going out from".
---scott on 7/6/10


Markv- You're correct. 6-31-10 (not 7-31), a continuation from a separate, recently closed thread.

Thank you for your keen attention to detail.
---scott on 7/6/10


Scott, on 7/1/10 you said Warwick said something on 7/30/10, can you see Warwicks answers ahead of time? Before you posted your comments no one had posted since Lisa on 11/5/07.
---Mark_V. on 7/6/10


David Jesus did say God is spirit, and that is what He is and what we have said all along. And it is God, the spirit who is 'manifest in flesh, (1 Tim. 3:16), Jesus the Son. He is therefore fully God-Son of God as to His spirit, and fully man, Son of Man as to His flesh.

That Jesus acknowledged that God is spirit does not in any way mean He is not God. This does not follow.

Trinity is a Term to describe God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Spirit. It is through the name of these three, who are one, that new believers are baptized. Which one isn't needed?

The Watchtower Society describes itself as a 'Theocracy' but this word does not appear in Scripture!
---Warwick on 7/5/10


Read These Insightful Articles About Ecommerce


"God is a Spirit", is a statement made by Christ at John 4:24 when he was at Jacobs well (or fountain) just south of the modern city of Nablus.

Christ was 'flesh', a man on earth when he made this statement.

Peter said Jesus was 'put to death in the flesh, but made alive in the Spirit' (1 Pe.3:18). It is thus abundantly clear that Jesus was NOT 'God the Spirit' when he said what he said at John 4:24.

'God is Trinity' is unscriptural and is not a Bible teaching but a teaching of Neo-platonists who attempt to squeeze Hellenic philosophy into scripture.

Christ had to die to remit our sins. AlmightyGod cannot die, He is eternal. El-Shaddai cannot also be Messiah.
---David8318 on 7/5/10


The Holy Spirit is God in action performing and confirming His Word spoken.
God is Spirit-Is He Not Holy?
The Spirit that dwelt In His Word on earth.
Referred to also as Counselor-teacher.
Is:9:6
For unto us a Child is born, unto us a Son is given:and thegovernment shall be upon His shoulder: and His name shall be called Wonderful, Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father , Prince of Peace.
1Cor2
Gal 5:16:18
1Jn5
---char on 7/5/10


"The trinity" is "The Triune God". God the Father bore man the Son whom bore the Holy Spirit. This belief is essential because: if you deny Jesus is God, then you deny his Almighty Godhood: and if you deny that God became a human Son, then you deny a Redeemer who relates to humans: and if you deny that God is the Holy Ghost, then you deny his Omnipresence and that he is holy. There are many verses professing that this gospel is salvation: "for that which is conceived in her is of the Holy Ghost: therefore also that holy thing which will be born of you will be called the Son from God. For to you is born this day in the city of David a Savior, which is Christ the Lord." Mt.1:20+ Lk.1:35+ 2:11.
---Eloy on 7/4/10


Scott God is Spirit, not a creature. Being Omnipresent we cannot divide His being because He does not exist in the way any creature exists.

Salvation comes through faith in God-do you disagree?

You asked if people are saved by faith in the Trinity and I answered yes because God is Trinity. People are baptized into the name (power/authority) of the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit. Which one is not essential?


"How do you define Trinity?"

Three coequal persons in the one Godhead. Because you do not believe in the Trinity does not prove the Trinity does not exist, any more than an atheists disbelief in God negates His reality.
---Warwick on 7/4/10


Read These Insightful Articles About Jewelry


\\All three are of the utmost importance. But I would argue that bible does not teach that the Holy Spirit is an actual 'person'.
---scott on 7/1/10\\

"Person" in Trinitarian theology has a technical meaning.

But since, according to St. Paul, the Holy Spirit can be grieved, He clearly has personhood, as do the Son and the Father.

Ephesians 4:30
And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption.
---Cluny on 7/4/10


Such Falsehood from the trin - rcc, just like them saying holy father( the pope, the priest ), holy Mary. Matt.15 v 9 & came from here 2nd.Cor.11 v's 14 - 15.
---Lawrence on 7/1/10


Rod4Him,

"Christians teach that God is Trinity: Father, Son, Holy Spirit." Cluny

I would ask which Christians? I understand what many 'teach' today. I'm most interested in what Christ and the apostles taught about this subject as recorded in God's inspired word. Cluny, in rejecting 'Sola Scriptura', places the words, decisions and creeds of men (that came after the death of the bible writers) on the same par with God's word. I would disagree.

"Which person is unnecessary for our salvation...which one can we do without?" Cluny

All three are of the utmost importance. But I would argue that bible does not teach that the Holy Spirit is an actual 'person'.
---scott on 7/1/10


Scott, I don't recall your response to a great question of cluny's,

//Christians teach that God is Trinity: Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.

Which person is unnecessary for our salvation?//

Which person can you do without?
---Rod4Him on 7/1/10


Read These Insightful Articles About Furniture


"We cannot separate Father, Son, and Holy Spirit..." Warwick 7-30-10

Were does God's inspired word say this?

"Scripture does say salvation comes by faith in God who we call the Trinity." Warwick 7-30-10

Where? What scripture? What verse?

"How do you define Trinity?"

I understand that the so called 'orthodox' trinitarian view (three persons rather than three God's) is often misunderstood by non-trinitarians.

However, you would have to admit that many, if not most, trinitarians, offer a wide range of (often conflicting) ideas for what they call 'the trinity."

In any case, I define it at false and unscriptural.
---scott on 7/1/10


It is how to make disciples of all nations.
Matthew 28:19
Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,
---Lisa on 11/15/07


Trinity Quiz

20. The Holy Spirit raised Jesus from the dead.

The correct answer is True.


Romans 8:11 - But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.





---Bob on 11/14/07


Trinity Quiz

15. The Holy Spirit is God.

The correct answer is True.


Acts 5:3-4 - But Peter said, Ananias, why hath Satan filled thine heart to lie to the Holy Ghost, and to keep back part of the price of the land? Whiles it remained, was it not thine own? and after it was sold, was it not in thine own power? why hast thou conceived this thing in thine heart? thou hast not lied unto men, but unto God.

The Holy Spirit is God




---Bob on 11/14/07


Read These Insightful Articles About Laptops


Acts 2:38 Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

Recieve Christ, the Son of God,(Faith in Christ WHO God resurrected and made Lord and Savior) and you shall recieve the POWER of God, which is his HS. not a 3rd Person..It is God's Spirit, impowering you, creating you into a "New Creation"..His Children born in Spirit, to become just like his first begotten Son, Jesus.
---CiNdY92714 on 11/14/07


Acts 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

John 3:36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God abideth on him.

A doctrine of mans Idea of who God is cannot save only faith in the Son of God can save.
---exzucuh on 11/13/07


Yes. If one doesn't believe in the Holy Trinity, (The Father, the Son and the Holy Ghost) then you can't become saved.
---Rebecca_D on 11/13/07


The answer is YES!Part one> 14 reasons for the Incarnation>>>>1.To reveal the invisible God. 2.To fulfill prophecy. 3.To guarantee the Davidic covenant. 4.To make a sacrifice for our sins. 5.To reconcile man to God. 6.To provide an example for believers. 7.To provide the believer with a high priest. 8.To destroy the DEVIL [wow] and his works. 9.To escape the historical curse. 10.To heal the brokenhearted. 11.To set at liberty the bruised.
---catherine on 4/20/07


Read These Insightful Articles About Lawyer


Part two>>>The Incarnation of Jesus Christ continues-12.To proclaim the acceptable year of the Lord. 13.To give life- abundant. 14.To Glorify the Father. [John 13:31;14:13;17-4]. The End.
---catherine on 4/20/07


All three Persons in the Trinity were involved in His death. >>>The Father.>>>The Son.>>>The Holy Spirit.
---catherine on 4/18/07


The Holy Trinity composes the the three personalities of God. God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Spirit.
Believing in their existence is your faith in your way of Salvation.
The Mediator of God the Father is God the Son, the Lord Jesus Christ. By accepting and believing in Him that He died on the cross to save us from the bondage of sins and thats is the means to be saved.
edna8476
---Edna on 4/5/07


The holy trinity means the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit is one God, and not 3 Gods. Jesus is called the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit, because there is only one God. But if you believe in 3 Gods, and that Jesus is something less than 100% God, then you are not a real Christian because real Christians worship Christ, the true Almighty God. Please read Revelation 1:8.
---Eloy on 4/4/07


Read These Insightful Articles About Dedicated Hosting


John 3:16 is all you need to be saved. As you grow in the faith and study the Word you will learn more and more of the Truth and know that the Trinity is Truth but to believe in it for salvation, the Bible does not say that.
---betty8468 on 4/4/07


Jesus said, "Go you all therefore, and teach all nations, batizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost; whom obeys and is baptized will be saved, but whom not obeys will be condemned." Matthew 28:19; Mark 16:16.
---Eloy on 4/3/07


No there is not an unholy trinity. The Holy Trinity because God is HOLY, My friend. And yes, you must believe in the Trinity in order to be saved. But really when you are saved, you just believe. Let me explain little bit more here. after Jesus saves you then believing in the Trinity comes natural to the believer. Okey. Praise God.
---catherine on 4/3/07


[...Is there an "Unholy" Trinity?]

Susie, I have heard it's satan, the anti-Christ & the false prophet who is also known as the "other beast"(who is mentioned in Revelation 13:11-15 -AND- Revelation 20:10). In a very sick and twisted way, The enemy tries to counterfeit everything of God, pathetic. God Bless!
---Mrs._Morgan on 4/3/07


Read These Insightful Articles About Online Marketing


* Just a thought. Why is it called the "Holy" Trinity? Is there an "Unholy" Trinity?*

Anything relating to God is "Holy". God is a Trinity, and Unity in Trinity. If you don't believe this then you are unsaved. You don't believe in the real God. Not to mention, that you are rejecting the Bible itself.

May the Glory and Honor be given to the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. One Holy Triune God!. Anyone one who rejects the Holy Trinity is a heretic.
---Ramon on 4/3/07


Just a thought. Why is it called the "Holy" Trinity? Is there an "Unholy" Trinity?
---Susie on 4/3/07


Yes.

Otherwise, you don't believe in the REAL God at all.
---Jack on 4/3/07


Copyright© 1996-2015 ChristiaNet®. All Rights Reserved.