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Is Mary A Co-Redemptress

This from the Catholic catechism(1992)"MARY, SINLESS, PERPETUAL VIRGIN, MOTHER OF GOD, QUEEN OF HEAVEN, CO- REDEMPTRESS WITH CHRIST."-Does calling her co redempress mean they believe she is equal with Christ? A fellow God?

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 ---Mima on 4/5/07
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Anne and Alan:-Thank you .She was indeed a great lady. My wife & I had this special privelege.and We are both humbled by this grace given to us by God.
---MIC on 12/12/08


Mic~ What an honor to have met Mother Teresa. What made her extra special is that she did not seek praise or recognition or worldly honors for what she did. She did it because she had a beautiful, humble, compassionate heart that loved Jesus and had great compassion for the poor and lowly.

"Pure and undefiled religion before God and the Father is this: to visit orphans and widows in their trouble, and to keep oneself unspotted from the world." James 1:27
---Anne on 12/11/08


Lee ... I think Mic is justified in his answer to your post.

I'm sure you did not mean it, but it did sound as if you were suggesting she misappropriated or mis-spent the money, and that the public is wrong in seeing her as a person of Christian faith.
---alan_of_Uk on 12/11/08


Lee :- With your analytic mind My answer would be "She took it to heaven"Hee hee haw!But by research she used it to nourish the SICK, cloth the naked, feed the hungry Help those in need Build schools Hospitals to take care of the destitute and Dying the unwanted unfortanate is what Mother Teresa accomplished, she lived the life of Christ- for herself NOTHING -I know I met HER. She loved Her Jesus with more intensity than you can ever muster in 10 lifetimes if it were possible.Is it easy to speak the truth from one who lives in Hallucinations?.I guess not!
---MIC on 12/11/08


To start judging people or speaking ill of the dead does not prove anything.

What we need to discuss is the doctrine of CHRIST as taught by the Word of GOD. What does the Bible say. That should be our reference.
---Samuel on 12/11/08




Who said, "The disciple is not above his master: but every one that is perfect shall be as his master? Was it who said on how to enter into life, "keep the commandments"? Was it who said to do, "all those things which are commanded you"? The spirit of Eliphaz the Temanite is alive today and speaking likewise (Job 15:14_16), only that God did not approve of him! You who told frances008, "Can You raise the dead?", I ask, can you? Could your bones revive a dead man as Elisha's (2 Kings 13:21)?
---Nana on 12/10/08


Frances:You show by example of Charity what Jesus says 'whosoever does this to the lest of one of these my Brethren he does it to me"Yes This was indeed Mother Teresa's vow of Poverty and obedience.You have changed Frances may God inspire you to share His word HIS WAY.:-)Each one must perfect Him/herself in the way God sees fit.Be perfect as your Heavenyly Father is perfect.This focus is esential.
---MIC on 12/11/08


Kathr~ I have not heard Frances say anything so far that is contrary to God's word. She does not teach that you can 'earn your way to heaven,' but that we are to obey God's word. We show we are living in obedience to God by the works we do. I don't agree with a lot of Catholic outlooks, but Mother Teresa certainly was humble, contrite, merciful, a peacemaker, pure in heart, and meek...if all people were like her, it would be quite a lovely world.

And yes, the church age is corrupt, and if Christ were to here in the flesh today don't you believe He would be saying words similar to the words of Mt. 23 to many church leaders of our day?
---Anne on 12/10/08


*Mother Theresa was a good person.

While we honor her for your service to those who were suffering, we probably will never find out what happened to all the money that was donated to her cause - millions of dollars. There was virtually no accounting given to anyone on this subject.

As to her personal faith, who is qualified to make any sort of evaluation?
---Lee1538 on 12/10/08


Oh, Kathr, so because Mother Theresa was not killed, she is not a good example? Are you advocating that all Christians be executed? This is ridiculous. She gave up her personal happiness and comfort to be a loving figure not only to Catholics or Christians, but also to God's poor. Kathr, you have been reading the words of Christopher Hitchens and other atheists. No, we Christians must stick together. Mother Theresa was a good person. (If she was not then let God judge her.) But we must not look for divisions in the body of the Holy Spirit church. Anyone who is kind to God's people will not lose their reward. Though they may well lose their good name.
---frances008 on 12/10/08




Kathr, if you or anyone else has been taught a wrong version of Christianity, based on idol worship, false doctrines, or whatever, you may end up wasting your life on that false idea. So be careful what you lay your life down for. However, whatever you do in a spirit of loving God (make sure it is the true God)will surely be judged accordingly. If you are not sure which is the true God then be sure that if you care about your neighbour around about you, or those in far flung countries, suffering starvation, then you are worshipping the correct God.
---frances008 on 12/10/08


***Kathr, you are so wrong. Jesus said to give your life for your friends was the very best thing you could do.
---frances008 on 12/10/08 ***

Yes frances, that is a good thing, but if one does it to TRY to earn heaven....wrong. I believe Mother Theresa did lay down her life for others, yet she did not lay it down for the GOSPEL's Sake. That would encure PERSECUTION and possible loss of life. That is the motive for laying down our life. There is the difference.

Peter, Paul, Jesus Christ etc, laid their life down for the sake of the GOSPEL....telling everyone we are born sinners, and Jesus Christ came into this world to save sinners....those who KNOW they were born sinners.
---kathr4453 on 12/10/08


Anne,
Frances does not preach TRUTH....and should be REBUKED. That's not playing GOD that's being obedient to the Scriptures.

NO ONE can work their way to Heaven. No one can imitate Jesus Christ. We are to OBEY Christ, we are to FOLLOW Jesus Christ.

Paul is our example of what we are to follow...Phil 3..

The fellowship of His sufferings, being MADE conformable to His death that we may attain to the resurrection. ACCORDING to HIS POWER that is at work in us.....abundantly above all that we could possible ask or think...Ephesians 3.

WE are not asked to run and HIDE. Our life is HIDDEN with God in Christ.

To say the Church age is corrupt is to say CHRIST is corrupt. You are cursing Jesus Christ.
---kathr4453 on 12/10/08


Anne, I suppose the church I see as saved are God's people (that is, he owns them). Thus anyone who is not owned by Satan is owned by God. God's people are particularly, the poor, the sick, the lonely, the tortured, the persecuted, homeless, mentally sick, handicapped, etc. The devil is in control of this world, and in general his people are fit, healthy, powerful, status loving, rich, and are responsible for making the lives of God's people very difficult. When a US president visited one poor country, maybe Thailand, the homeless were all flown out of Thailand to some other country. Imagine what they went through. Being homeless and also foreigners. Just so the TV would not get a bad impression of their country.
---frances008 on 12/10/08


Kathr, you are so wrong. Jesus said to give your life for your friends was the very best thing you could do.
---frances008 on 12/10/08


You're right, Anne. There is a type of believer who is like the Japanese people, they know about Christianity and Jesus, but have not made a decision for him, and are good people, (there are others who are evil) and there are also people who have never heard of Jesus (in the world) who know him in that they have the Holy Spirit in them.

It is an honour to know you too, Anne.
---frances008 on 12/10/08


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Jesus said those who followed him, whosoever sins you forgive, they are forgiven, whosoever sins you retain, they are retaines.

Whilst Jesus was the one and only perfect life who died so that the sins of all men could be forgiven if they repented, (and in the case of those who have not heard the gospel - perhaps even unrepented sins which they did not know were sins - like idol worshipping other gods) we can all be Christ-like. If we are not Christ like there is no way that the nonChristian can know what Christ is like. It would be our fault that they did not decide for Christ.
---frances008 on 12/10/08


Kathr~ Why do you continue to act like God, and stand as the judge of Frances' soul? This is deeply troubling. Frances, often looks at things happening in the world today, and sees how it relates to what the Bible is telling us concerning future events. (ex. the falling away of man, the destruction of the earth etc.) These are not 'worldly' ways, but common sense observations of the world around her.
---Anne on 12/10/08


Miche~ Yes, sin came into the world through Adam and Eve and therefore we all need Jesus, or we could never one day stand before a Holy God. However, we are accountable for our own sins, and won't be able to blame Adam and Eve one day.

(Frances, when you said 'nonbelievers' may inherit possibly, if they are pure in heart etc....I think you misworded that since they are actually 'believers', but just may not know that it's Jesus who saves them.)

Miche and Frances, you are both two gracious ladies, and I'm very thankful to 'know' you both.
---Anne on 12/10/08


frances,sorry, I forgot. But I will respond to what you said.
Through one man's sin THE ENTIRE HUMAN RACE WAS CONDEMNED.Romans 5:19
But you say contridictory to the Word of God-
"It is not Adam's sin that condemns us to hell, but our own."
Partly right, BUT, Sin came into the world through Adam and Eve or we would not have needed Jesus.
Sin is a thought that becomes and action that is wrong. This capacity to Sin is passed down from generation to generation.
Babies are born into Sin- this means born with the ability to sin. They learn it as they grow. Sis, all are born in this capacity none are exempt from it except Jesus.
---miche3754 on 12/10/08


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The church I am in is not made of bricks, Kathr. It is made of living stones.
---frances008 on 12/9/08


Yes frances those LIVING stones Peter describes are built up a SPIRITUAL habitation, Jesus the chief corner stone and is IN HEAVEN, not here on earth.

Paul as well tells us concerning the Church and our obedience is in Phil 3.

Also Paul tells us in Colossians 3:1-4....we are dead to this world and our life is hidden with God in Christ,to look at things ABOVE and NOT below.

YES, You are in the WRONG Kingdom.

AND you cannot immitate Jesus...Can You raise the dead? OR Die for anyone's sin?
---kathr4453 on 12/10/08


There was nothing wrong in Frances saying that she believes we are out of the church age. The Bible says it very plainly that evil men and imposters will grow worse and worse deceiving and being deceived. (II Tim. 3:13). The Bible also tells how we will heap up teachers to please our ears instead of those who teach God's truths. Very, very few churches are truly and earnestly teaching God's truths in their fullness, but normally focus on the doctrines of men.
---Anne on 12/9/08

You are correct Anne! The emergent church is proof of the apostacy in the last days.
The RCC is also now reaching out to the Muslims to find common ground.
The One-World universal religion is on it's way.
---Mike356 on 12/10/08


On Dec 5th you posted something about a baby's state spiritually, Miche. I am referring to what you wrote.
---frances008 on 12/9/08


frances, are you talking about me or are you talking to mic?
I haven't posted anything until now and that is in my defense.
Maybe it is a typo.
---miche3754 on 12/9/08


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Thanks, Nana.

Kathr, why does Jesus tell us to look out for the signs of the end, state that the love of many will grow cold, that family members will hand you over to be executed, that Christians must flee to the countryside and not look back, that we must not believe all those saying 'Christ is coming, look he's almost here!' That we should endure to the end and go through great tribulation. Who do you think is in control of this earth. It is Satan. And where does he reign from? It is Rome. GM crops, global warming/HAARP/Chemtrails and oil pollution all are in the Bible as the things that are done by those who try to destroy this world.
---frances008 on 12/9/08


Miche, we have all sinned and fallen short of the glory of God. But we were made in the image of God and a plan was made for our lives - a purpose for us to fulfil - and for that God would need to be our Master and King. It is not Adam's sin that condemns us to hell, but our own. It is Jesus who was killed (nailed to the cross by wicked men who did not like his message) and in being killed showed us the way to Heaven. Indeed many nonbelievers will be killed and inherit the kingdom of God through being baptized by suffering and death. Meanwhile those who cause them suffering, either by conspiring against them, or through their own indifference to the things of God, will go to Hell.
---frances008 on 12/9/08


Kathr~ Why are you so harsh to Frances, and tell her things like 'she is in the wrong kingdom.' I truly hope you apologize to her and to the Lord for those unkind and judgmental words.

There was nothing wrong in Frances saying that she believes we are out of the church age. The Bible says it very plainly that evil men and imposters will grow worse and worse deceiving and being deceived. (II Tim. 3:13). The Bible also tells how we will heap up teachers to please our ears instead of those who teach God's truths. Very, very few churches are truly and earnestly teaching God's truths in their fullness, but normally focus on the doctrines of men.
---Anne on 12/9/08


The church I am in is not made of bricks, Kathr. It is made of living stones.
---frances008 on 12/9/08


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Kathr, I believe we are out of the church age as such. There is a remnant of true believers left, who are carrying their crosses, both inside and outside of the church. The church has aposticized. Those who can imitate Jesus will be okay, and those who refuse to be a 'Nazarene' are now going to have to work their way to Heaven. Imitating Jesus is not works, it is grace.
---frances008 on 12/8/08

Frances what makes you think we are out of the church age. At the End of the Church age will be the return of Jesus Christ at his second coming. Only Jesus can set up the Kingdom Age, and that hasn't happened yet.

Unfortunately YOU are in the wrong Kingdom.
---kathr4453 on 12/9/08


"Imitating Jesus is not works, it is grace."
---frances008 on 12/8/08
Most excellent, frances008!
---Nana on 12/8/08


Kathr, I believe we are out of the church age as such. There is a remnant of true believers left, who are carrying their crosses, both inside and outside of the church. The church has aposticized. Those who can imitate Jesus will be okay, and those who refuse to be a 'Nazarene' are now going to have to work their way to Heaven. Imitating Jesus is not works, it is grace.
---frances008 on 12/8/08


Frances you are teaching Jesus is our example of how we are to behave, and if we follow His standard then we can work our way to heaven.

Well the Bible teaches that during the church age,.....not the Kingdom Age spoken in Matthew. Christianity is CHRIST in you...the hope of Glory. It's the spirit of the Life of Christ in you that sets you free from the law of sin and death.

Many well meaning people can immitate Jesus....but true christinaity is not an innitation, but the very PERSON of Christ who lives through you.....

Those will be the ones who are joint heirs with Christ during this time spoken in Matthew. The Church is not going back under LAW....We will reign and rule WITH Christ.
---kathr4453 on 12/8/08


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Mic ... Thank you ... I see now what you were saying!

I was surprised that you seemd to be ascribing ill-will to me, and am pleased you were not!

I don't though agree with you that ill-will is always started among uneducated people.

The NI troubles originated because of gross oppression of the RC indiginous population. They were no less educated than their oppressors, except that in due course they were deprived of proper academic education.

That became a justified complaint, which inevitably became ill-will when nothing was done to right the wrongs.

At that stage the ill-will became violence, and there was violent response, leading to decades of catastrophe.
---alan_of_UK on 12/8/08


A OF UK:- This was not an attack but a reflection on what you stated of the conditions in your country.Ill will is always started by the uneducated people out to seek revenge in Places where they think it exists.These people I classify as OAFS.My reflection has nothing to do with You.Have a joyful peaceful Merry Christmas with the blessings of the Infant who came to bring us peace and show us His way of obtaining it.
---MIC on 12/8/08


You can follow Jesus without knowing it and you can follow Satan without knowing it. This is what confused me earlier on when I said we do not have free will. We actually do have free will, but Satan has taken some people captive. Why? Because they consciously prefer lies to the truth. They know that something smells wrong, but they will not wake up and admit it. Instead they listen to whatever their itching ears want to hear.
---frances008 on 12/8/08


Kathr, it gets boring trying to teach basic Christianity to Christians. If we do or don't do as Jesus commands us - and we can do as he teaches with the presence of the Holy Spirit in our lives - then the Judge, Jesus, will decide whether we go to Heaven or Hell. Jesus promises that whoever helps the poor, sick, lonely, imprisoned, etc etc, are helping him and will be told that they have inherited the Kingdom of God. It is in Matthew 25 and numerous other places the same doctrine is put forth. It is the wicked that go to Hell and the righteous that go to Heaven. Religion does not count.
---frances008 on 12/7/08


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Mic ... I am not sure I understand what you are saying!

You suggest ill-will started in this country?

The ill-will I was talking about was in NI which led to decades of vicious and blood conflict, between Catholics and Protestants. I think you understood what I meant and what ill will I was talking about.

You now appear to say that that same ill-will is inbred in me. Are you suggesting that my disagreement with some RC doctrine is to do with ill-will? Please refer to what I have said about the cause of those troubles, and see my sympathy for the catholic victims of protestant oppression.

I do not bear any ill-will towards the RCC, and I don't think I have shown any here.
---alan_of_UK on 12/7/08


Thanks, Anne. What I say is all in the Bible. People are cherry picking verses, saying, well if it says the ones who don't believe are damned then all nonbelievers are damned. But read in context, the bible is referring to people who have the evidence put before them and who deny what is blatantly obviously the truth. It is not referring to little 21 century Japanese children (etc) who will never be presented with a proper western Christianity but only with lies and propaganda from the atheists in the west. There are other conditions that can be met to allow people entrance into Heaven.
---frances008 on 12/7/08


Matthew 5:3: "Blessed are the poor in spirit: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven."
Matthew 5:10: "Blessed are they which are persecuted for righteousness' sake: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven."
Matthew 18:10: "Take heed that ye despise not one of these little ones, for I say unto you, That in heaven their angels do always behold the face of my Father which is in heaven."
I am in accord with frances008 here.
---Nana on 12/7/08


To answer the question directly, NO.
The suggestion is straight from the pit of hell.
There is nothing Mary can do for you and she certainly cannot hear you, she is too busy worshiping her son.

I fear that some may take these questions seriously, not knowing most of the questions on this blog are provocative nonsense.
This and the question concerning incest come from demented minds.
---larry on 12/7/08


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Kathr~ Frances is calmly, logically and patiently teaching the Bible's truths. God is concerned about the condition of our hearts, and if we are following a pure clean conscience...this is what it means to 'follow Jesus.' (Read the first 2 chapters of Romans for perfect clarity.)

Frances is not teaching 'good works' alone save...she is teaching about living in righteousness & holiness. When we listen to our conscience, it accuses us or excuses us.

Many people who 'profess to be Christians' however, because they are regular church-goers etc. have had their consciences seared so that they barely know good from evil.
---Anne on 12/7/08


***You can follow Jesus without knowing it. **

Frances I totally disagree that one can follow Jesus and not know it.

What are they following? A principal of goodness? To follow Jesus is to follow Him into Death and Resurrection life. To follow HIM is to Preach the GOSPEL OF JESUS CHRIST...AND SUFFER FOR IT!!!. That GOSPEL is very specific...no one can come to the Father except through His Son.

Are you saying one can come to the Father and not even KNOW the Son? That one can be washed in the Blood of Jesus Christ without first acknowledging they need to be washed, and ONLY CHRIST's BLOOD can wash you?
---kathr4453 on 12/7/08


A of UK:you are living in a country where ill will started and it will continue as long as the people do not meet the problem head on.You my friend with many others including some of my Relaives are in the midst os such upreaval.YOU are not part of the problem that you can by simple disassociation, distance yourself.Ill will is inbred,and within the jurisdiction of each ones Control."He who loses his life for my sake saves it and he who saves his life loses it"we have no control over others actions but OUR OWN.
---Mic on 12/6/08


If those who are in New Age have been deceived by clever lies and propaganda then they will have some excuse. whoever know the truth and reject it go to hell.
---frances008 on 12/5/08

You err, Ignorance will be NO excuse, Frances008...
---Duane_Dudley_Martin on 12/6/08


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Kathr, I am against the New Age religion which comes from the Satanists. I am preaching what I read in the Bible. Those who are righteous will be saved, those who are unrighteous will be damned. Repent and believe the good news, take up your cross and follow Jesus - that is my teaching. You can follow Jesus without knowing it. Those who claim to know Jesus won't go to Heaven if they are not doing what Jesus did. Leprosy was not caused by any sins of the victim. Same with all diseases. Adam and Eve's sin caused illness and death is what the Bible says. God might allow illness to teach us obedience - in those cases sin could be the indirect cause.
---frances008 on 12/6/08


I am not preaching New Age, but am totally against it. Religions and cults are the chief problems to getting a right relationship with Jesus and God. Jesus is the only way, because he is the decision maker when it comes to Judgement Day. If you take up with false idolatrous religions, you will have to answer to Jesus. It will be worse on that day for those who heard about the Word of God and did not think it important enough to study. However, within religions there are many going to be saved because of their child-like faith and desire to please God. I mean in all religions. If those who are in New Age have been deceived by clever lies and propaganda then they will have some excuse. whoever know the truth and reject it go to hell.
---frances008 on 12/5/08


Mic ... I'm not sure what you are trying to say to me. I do not harbour ill-will, and I hope you do not.

But ill-will there is.

Don't forget that I have observed from a few miles away decades of bloody conflict here, and have heard often enough (and that is far too often) the words Papist & Prod spoken with hatred and fear, not only by stone-throwing children, but bomb-planting adults.

Is it not time that the weeping is allowed to stop?

In case in Canada you have not heard, the causation of the Irish troubles was injustice to indigenous Irish Catholics by incoming Scottish Protestants.
---alan_of_UK on 12/5/08


Alan of UK:It is useless to harbour thoughts words of ill will.Remember the saying "Sticks and stones may break my Bones but words can never harm me"This is a tactic used by the uncivilised.all over the world.People who take umbrage at some oafs sayings allow themselves to stoop to the same level IMHO.I do believe there has been much advancement since the 14th century in the British Isles.so words of proddy papish and may be others are really childishly used.
---Mic on 12/5/08


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The important point is exactly as Frances said... if we don't pay attention to Jesus and continue to habitually keep on sinning, then we inherit condemnation.

Yes, we are all conceived in sin, but Christ's death on the cross erases all the sins of all those who live steadfastly in righteousness from Adam to now and beyond. Jesus said 'let the little children come to me for to such belong the Kingdom of God.' Babies and little children are not held accountable.

Kathr~ this is not universalism...it is mercy, and justice. Romans 2:13-16 explains it perfectly. (The law is written in all of our hearts...those who hear of Jesus, and those who never do.) Not the hearers, but the doers are just in God's sight.
---Anne on 12/5/08


NO FRANCES, Jesus FREED ONLY THOSE who come to HIM to be freed....

YOU are not preaching TRUTH here.

Are YOU crucified with Christ?????

That is YOUR decision to make....if you want to be free from sin. You are teaching universalism....that is a false doctrine. It's NEW AGE as well!!!

As the serpent was lifted up in the wilderness so must Christ be....WHO SO EVER WILL. YET you will find even in the OT....many out of pride did not look upon the serpent to be freed from Leoprosy..brough on by SIN!!!
---kathr4453 on 12/5/08


frances sister that still does not change the fact that
through the sin of Adam, ALL were made sinners.
We are born into sin. Just from that one selfish act.
It is through the UN-selfish act of Jesus that all can be saved.
A baby cannot commit sin because it soe not know sin.
But it is still born into sin.
---miche3754 on 12/5/08


Frances ... There are some Protestants who have nasty terms for Roman Catholics. One of these is Papist ... said with a hissing spitting sound.

Rather unerving when said by a so-called man of God.

In the UK we are too clse in time to the terrible times in Northern Ireland, when appression of the RC eventually led to violent revolt, and years of murder by both sides.

But only a small proportion on each side was involved, which is why I have said to Mic that not all Protestants are the same
---alan_of_UK on 12/5/08


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Miche, because of Christ's death on the cross, the sins of the whole world were paid for. That is the end of the story about Adam. But if you do not pay attention to Jesus, (I don't mean you, I mean anyone), and continue on in sinning - a habit we learnt by living in this world (we were not sinners before we were born, therefore we were born free from sin), then we will not inherit anything except condemnation. People are not sinners because they are human beings but because they choose to follow the devil. Jesus freed us from his power.
---frances008 on 12/4/08


The O.T. makes it clear that - whilst the sins of the fathers may have an effect (during this life) on the following generations - spiritually speaking, the punishment for the sins is not passed on. We may learn how to sin from our forebears but if we do, we are punished for it in either this or the next life, unless we repent. What changed with Jesus? Jesus paid for all the sins of men for those who will repent and change, we were offered grace instead of captivity to the bondage of sin. Now we are moving out of the period of grace, because people are saying false things, like we do not have to change or repent.
---frances008 on 12/4/08


"Bearing False witness against your neighbour is sacreligious as it is Breaks the 8th commandment of God.Eloy to note."the same judgement shall be meeted out to you"
---Mic on 12/4/08


Frances:Proddy dogs? used by 12 year old children? they are young adults.Are you not in Japan pan pan.My How the English language has changed over 2000 years.PROD =to poke or incite.Oh well something to put on the back burner.
---Mic on 12/4/08


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Idolatry is sin.
---Eloy on 12/4/08


Proddy-dog is an offensive name used by under 12 year olds to their rivals. IE Used by Catholic children in the UK. It is street language. Funny how the Protestants don't have a nasty name for Catholics as far as I know.
---frances008 on 12/3/08


Kathr, you take what I say to you and use it like you are addressing me. Kathr, that point about Job comforters was for you. You are the one who uses the words of people who are not God as if they were God. People like David. And you entirely missed the meaning of my post. You don't understand the Bible either.
---frances008 on 12/3/08


David was a shepherd boy who became a king. He was not a priest, or a theologian. I do not think he was a prophet either. I repeat that he did many bad things. But he did trust in God. He also repented and knew his weaknesses. Why do you put so much store by his words for figuring out dogma, Kathr. He was wicked but he wanted to be good. He was humble. He occassionally used language that Jesus would not approve of, begging for disasters to smite his enemies etc.
---frances008 on 12/3/08


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***(like Job's comforters)***


frances, i wouldn't put too much faith in the friends of Job. GOD said they were not speaking truth...only Job. Have you not read that part. Beware of the friends of Job in your life.

Frances you really MUST read ALL of Job....and if you can't get through it...read the last few Chapters where God tells us exactly what He thinks of what those friends were saying....basically hog-wash.....where God asked Job to sacrifice for them and pray for them for forgivness of speaking lies about Him...God.

---kathr4453 on 12/3/08


The Incorruptible and Perfectly Gentle Comforter, The Holy Spirit, Sowed The Christ to come as though a Light or Prophet into the world of sin and sinners. The First Born among the dead as written.

He was without blemish and blameless.

His Flesh is real Manna Food. Those in communion of the fellowship of supplication (doing The Will of God which is the sanctification resurrection of the dead inner man subject to sin and law of lawlessness) and in abiding In Him and With Him (those for Me are not against Me) remaining In Him in bearing Good Fruits through Him.
---jack_david on 12/3/08


frances, kath is right.
To be born into a fleshly body is to be born into sin.John 3:6 says that which is flesh is flesh. That which is Spirit is Spirit.
Jesus was born into sin(a fleshly body) but is sinless.
This is HOW Christ is the Savior.
Christ is both Flesh & Spirit.
He put on the Sin of MAN and nailed it to the cross- The Flesh.
What do you get when you take a Fleshly being- Mary, and The Spirit of God- you get Jesus.
Remember, through one mans disobedience(sin-(Adam) ALL were made sinners.
Through One Man's obedience(sacrifice-JESUS) many be made righteous.Romans 5:19
---miche3754 on 12/3/08


No, Kathr, again you cherry pick verses. The Bible is a record of what godly men and ungodly people (like Job's comforters) said. Some godly people like Peter made mistakes and were rebuked for their words. You can find the word 'bloody' in at least two of the psalms to describe evil people. There is rape in the Bible. Not everything in the Bible is good. There is idolatry reported in the Bible. David did some wicked things and he is showing his own humility here. God says 'Be fruitful and multiply' and he was not referring to having orgies, but to being wed and having children.
---frances008 on 12/2/08


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Kathr, you do not study your Bible, that is my considered opinion.
---frances008 on 12/2/08


***Babies are not conceived in sin, but through a very natural act of which we all know about.***

francess, AGAIN you call GOD and HIS WORD a lie. David very specifically stated he was altogether conceived IN SIN from his mothers womb.

Is YOUR OPINION more important then what God teaches? Shame on you!!!!
---kathr4453 on 12/2/08


Mic ... The term Prod is particularly used to describe the virulantly anti-Catholics of Northern Ireland, and is thus a term of something akin to contempt. So I would like you not to use it of me,
Thanbk you

You seem to think I have accused you of hating me? When was that?

Hatred of the RCC does exist here, as you have had just cause to complain, and I have oft supported you in that complaint.

There are signs too of similar feelings from some RCs towards non-RC groups.

It is your understanding that the RCC comprises the whole universality of Christ's people ... but it is evident that is not the case, unless you deny that non-RCs are Christ's people.
---alan_of_UK on 12/2/08


Alan of UK:-The saying "there will always be an England "does not comprise the universe you speak and corelate your defined doctrine to the Islands of the UK.WE are talking of the prods and other defiant spirituality in relation to the Universe.not just GREAT Britian.You take things personally being Anglican which is not even a drop in the sea of confusion caused by Satan.I called you friend so I fail to see how you equate Hate with that term!!If however you continue to use it I may remind you it relates to one of the Commandments "Thou shalt not Kill"this springs from Hate.My point is there is only ONE Universitality in Jesus church.RCC.
---Mic on 12/2/08


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Babies are not conceived in sin, but through a very natural act of which we all know about. In marriages it is holy. Outside of marriage, the baby that is born is not sinful because of the situation in which he or she was conceived. A baby is a pure blessing - whether it is healthy, handicapped, whatever. Life is a blessed thing. It is evil in the world that can affect a person but did not affect the 100 per cent human and divine Jesus. God commands men to go forth and MULTIPLY. Not go forth and enjoy pleasures without producing any babies. That is the sin - controlling the number of children to suit your convenience and comfort. And if you are too poor, then you know what to abstain from.
---frances008 on 12/1/08


Mic ... The term Prods is used for the Irish extremist, and they, like others, some of them here, DO hate. So I would be glad if you do not use it for me.

As for the rest of what you say, please read the whole of my three posts.

You may then understand what I am saying, even if you do not agree with it.
---alan_of_UK on 12/2/08


Mic ... You don't seem to be able to understand that the churches comprise people.

You will have noticed here, I expect, there are Protestants who are RC-haters, and those who are not.

And there are RCs here who are clearly nonRC-haters, and those who are not.

You say do not use the word hatred ... I am not afraid to use it, because it exists ... and it is shown clearly to exist here on these blogs. I will have no part in it though.
---alan_of_UK on 12/2/08


Alan of UK:-A basic fact:Things equal to the same thing are equal to one another, Do you agree?So if there is a slight difference they are not equal-congruent.You state that C of E Prods are different from Irish Prods.Lets not use the word Hatred its contrary to Gods law "difference of opinion"what about other Prods who come under the umbrella of the same term are you suggesting they are Catholic but not Roman"This then is a new kettle of Fish.Catholic is ONE =UNIVERSAL which is RCC with Apostolic succession,why do Prods so vehementantly deny The RomanChurch under Matt16:13-19Here in lies the Enigma, b/c It does not Have Christs SEAL of Approval."My church"Sorry but to be true one must be true to oneown's self.
---Mic on 12/1/08


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Mic ... You have said many times there are thousands of "protestant" groups.
A few of them exhibit the strong hatred of the RCC which is shown here. We have had the "Prods" in Northern Ireland who are rabid in their hatred.

But in the UK, most Protestant denominations do not have that hatred, and view the RCC as another Christian denomination (with faults) and the RCC views protestant churches as non-catholic Christian denominations (with faults)

Part of the problem between us seems to be that you regard all Protestants as being of that former type, when in fact they are the minority and not typical. Perhaps that is why you respond with so much hostility to all protestants, when it should only be for a few.
---alan_of_UK on 12/1/08


***The egg and sperm were the Holy Spirit ***

David Jack, no the egg was Mary's. If both were of the Holy Spirit then Jesus would not be MAN as well as God...he would be completely God....and would not be able to die on a cross for our sin. Jesus flesh would then be god flesh, and there is no such thing as god flesh. Flesh is MAN...
---kathr4453 on 12/1/08


Nicole ... There are only 3 types of Christian?

Well, there are more than that.

Using your basic divisions, we have "Western" by which I assume you mean Roman Catholic ... split into those who hate any non-Catholic ideas, and those who live in peace with other denominations.

Then we have the Eastern (you mean Orthodox) who are probably sub-divided in the same way

And Protestants are also divided along the same lines, of hatred or acceptance of the RCC as a fellow Christian church

Sadly, some contributors here display the less attractive sub-divisions ... i.e. hatred of non-Catholics, or hatred of RCC.

Where do you fit in., and why?

Can I say "Peace" to yuo?
---alan_of_UK on 12/1/08


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