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Early Christian Church

How did the early christian church have church and how did we get our current church format which doesn't seem to come from the Bible?

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 ---Bob on 5/2/07
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To my knowledge, scripture does not contain the words "personal relationship". It is sad that anyone would have an objection to a personal relationship with The Lord, BUT, anyone who does have an objection, I will not bother trying to convince such a hard-hearted person that they should have a personal relationship with Him (you either LOVE HIM of your own volition/will or you don't....BOTTOM LINE...this is the 'be all and end all' of Godliness).

The ONLY way that love is ever REAL is when it is PERSONAL, ask your spouse, parents, brothers, and sisters.

If you want a relationship based on faith,....FINE, but...
" but the greatest of these is love" 1 Corinthians 13:13.
---more_excellent_way on 8/12/10


John 15:13-14 Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends. Ye are my friends, if ye do whatsoever I command you.
James 2:23 And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God.
Hebrews 13:5 [Let your] conversation [be] without covetousness, [and be] content with such things as ye have: for he hath said, I will never leave thee, nor forsake thee.
Matthew 28:20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, [even] unto the end of the world. Amen.
It sounds quite personal to me and what a relationship we have with our great God and King!!
---micha9344 on 8/12/10


Can you please give where the Bible says anything about a "personal relationship with Jesus"?
---Cluny on 8/11/10


Genesis 49:18
I have waited for thy salvation, O LORD.
Job 13:16
He also shall be my salvation: for an hypocrite shall not come before him.
Psalm 18:2
The LORD is my rock, and my fortress, and my deliverer, my God, my strength, in whom I will trust, my buckler, and the horn of my salvation, and my high tower.
Acts 13:26
Men and brethren, children of the stock of Abraham, and whosoever among you feareth God, to you is the word of this salvation sent.
---Trav on 8/12/10


\\Any one know of any church where you can just walk in and be the speaker?
---francis on 8/10/10\\

Do you actually think that REAL Churches do that today, francis?

Or are you claiming to be on the spiritual level of St. Paul or Jesus?
---Cluny on 8/10/10\\
---francis on 8/12/10


\\As you can see when i said that this does not happen any more, you went against it. then you went for it. That is why you are getting funnier every single post
---francis on 8/11/10\\

Please quote my exact words where you claim I "went for it."

Be specific, giving the day I said it, as I do with you.

**The relationship with Jesus is supposed to be a PERSONAL relationship.**

Can you please give where the Bible says anything about a "personal relationship with Jesus"?
---Cluny on 8/11/10




people do not go to churches and just have anyone read a passage, or anyone stand up and speak anymore.

Usualy there is a scheduled speaker
Everyone knows that, so stop the arguement for aruement sake.
---francis on 8/9/10

You're looking at the exception, making a rule of it, and by your ignorance YOU are the one being argumentative.
---Cluny on 8/9/10

As you can see when i said that this does not happen any more, you went against it. then you went for it. That is why you are getting funnier every single post
---francis on 8/11/10


The relationship with Jesus is supposed to be a PERSONAL relationship.

"PERSONAL" doesn't seem to really mean very much to the modern worshipper anymore (never did really in the traditional teachings). "PERSONAL" means...."NOT IDENTICAL". If further explanation is necessary, it also means...."not TEAM relationship". It also means..."not like the early church" and not like the other "team", church, or other person.

So, what do you care about the early practitioners of the faith?...they are not this "PERSONAL" relationship we are to each have.

"PERSONAL" means PERSONAL.
---more_excellent_way on 8/11/10


\\\Any one know of any church where you can just walk in and be the speaker?
---francis on 8/10/10\\

Do you actually think that REAL Churches do that today, francis?

Or are you claiming to be on the spiritual level of St. Paul or Jesus?
---Cluny on 8/10/10\\

Notice, class, how once more francis does not answer a direct question posed to him.
---Cluny on 8/11/10


\Any one know of any church where you can just walk in and be the speaker?
---francis on 8/10/10\\

Do you actually think that REAL Churches do that today, francis?

Or are you claiming to be on the spiritual level of St. Paul or Jesus?
---Cluny on 8/10/10


people do not go to churches and just have anyone read a passage, or anyone stand up and speak anymore.

Usualy there is a scheduled speaker
Everyone knows that, so stop the arguement for aruement sake.
---francis on 8/9/10

You're looking at the exception, making a rule of it, and by your ignorance YOU are the one being argumentative.
---Cluny on 8/9/10

Pick ONE answer and go with it.
You cannot choose both answers
---francis on 8/11/10


\\Denominational "churches" are a creation of Satan - be it Catholic, Protestant, Baptist, Lutheran, Mormon, JW, etc. Denominational "churches" divides christians up into their own little cults each having their own rituals, traditions, ways of living, and interpretations of the bible.\\

Of course, you don't have your OWN interpretation of the Bible, or your OWN ritual, traditions, or ways of living, now do you?

\\Christ's church is simply like-minded christians and where two or more meet there is Jesus also.\\

Does your definition of "like-minded Christians" include or exclude those who are 100% in agreement with you?
---Cluny on 8/10/10




\\Any one know of any church where you can just walk in and be the speaker?
---francis on 8/10/10\\

Do you actually think that REAL Churches do that today, francis?

Or are you claiming to be on the spiritual level of St. Paul or Jesus?
---Cluny on 8/10/10


"Any one know of any church where you can just walk in and be the speaker?" (francis)

You mean just walk in and deliver a sermon (thus elevate yourself as a teacher, someone who has the authority) during the Divine Liturgy?

Not in any of the Ancient (Pre-Reformation) Apostolic Churches.......

In IC.XC.,
---Ignatius on 8/10/10


Denominational "churches" are a creation of Satan - be it Catholic, Protestant, Baptist, Lutheran, Mormon, JW, etc. Denominational "churches" divides christians up into their own little cults each having their own rituals, traditions, ways of living, and interpretations of the bible. Denominational "churches" weaken the christian.

Do an online KJV bible search for "one another," "each other," "comfort," and "encourag" because living a christian life is a 24/7 lifestyle not a once a week pep talk dished out by denominational "churches."

Christ's church is simply like-minded christians and where two or more meet there is Jesus also.
---Steveng on 8/10/10


Any one know of any church where you can just walk in and be the speaker?
---francis on 8/10/10


\\---Cluny on 8/9/10
Sometimes you are just plain funny
---francis on 8/10/10\\

Typical of the ad hominem argument made by people who cannot refute what is actually said in a discussion.

Apparently you did NOT know the meaning of "theofovoumenos", while simultaneously laboring under the misconception that there would be sermons in heaven.
---Cluny on 8/10/10


---Cluny on 8/9/10
Sometimes you are just plain funny
---francis on 8/10/10


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\\yes sir, part of the worship experience is hearing the word of God (sermons)\\

Where the worship of God will be at its purest form in heaven, do you actually think there will be sermons?

**Ye that fear God mean those who respect God.**

Wrong.

The Greek word "theofovoumenos/-oi" referred to Gentiles who frequented synagogues and believed in the God of Israel, but had not formally converted to Judaism by circumcision.

||people do not go to churches and just have anyone read a passage, or anyone stand up and speak anymore.||

You're looking at the exception, making a rule of it, and by your ignorance YOU are the one being argumentative.
---Cluny on 8/9/10


Cluny on 8/9/10

yes sir, part of the worship experience is hearing the word of God (sermons)

Not sure what verse you are taking rendered from.

Ye that fear God mean those who respect God.

What I am saying is true
people do not go to churches and just have anyone read a passage, or anyone stand up and speak anymore.

Usualy there is a scheduled speaker
Everyone knows that, so stop the arguement for aruement sake.
---francis on 8/9/10


\\NO ONE WORSHIPS LIKE THIS ANYMORE:\\

And you actually think that sermons are the same thing as worship, francis?

BTW, do you know what St. Paul meant by the word rendered in English, "Ye that fear God"?

If you do, tell us.
---Cluny on 8/9/10


NO ONE WORSHIPS LIKE THIS ANYMORE:

Luke 4:16 And he came to Nazareth, where he had been brought up: and, as his custom was, he went into the synagogue on the sabbath day, and stood up for to read.

Luke 4:20 And he closed the book, and he gave [it] again to the minister, and sat down.

Acts 13:15 And after the reading of the law and the prophets the rulers of the synagogue sent unto them, saying, [Ye] men [and] brethren, if ye have any word of exhortation for the people, say on.

Acts 13:16 Then Paul stood up, and beckoning with [his] hand said, Men of Israel, and ye that fear God, give audience.

our preachers are scheduled months in advance
We do not usually have discussions we have monologues
---francis on 8/9/10


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\\There was a time was Jews and christians did worship in the very same biilding\\

Except the Christians would gather in private homes for the Eucharist.

And Christians were eventually expelled from synagogues, as Christ prophesied, by 125 AD.

**how did we get our current church format which doesn't seem to come from the Bible?**

Who's "WE", Kemo Sabe?

You're right. Protestant worship does NOT come from the Bible. But Orthodoxy's does.
---Cluny on 8/9/10


There was a time was Jews and christians did worship in the very same biilding

Acts 5:42 And daily in the temple, and in every house, they ceased not to teach and preach Jesus Christ.

They also worshiped in houses.

Our current method os church is partially influenced by RCC wher one man speaks and the rest listen.
1 Corinthians 14:29 Let the prophets speak two or three, and let the other judge.
---francis on 8/9/10


The Early Church that Is according to Mark 16 v 16, Acts 2 v's 37 - 41 which Fulfills Matt.28 v's 19 - 20 to the Jewish people First on the day of Pentecost. Apostle Paul brought this very Same to us gentiles.

The Early Church made the devil mad, so the devil with the roman leaders, nero & the crusades killed off the some of the Early Church Saints, so the roman leaders could start their Man - made trin rcc.

I am part of the Early Church today. The devil didn't kill us all & he sure would like to, because of The Truth of The Gospel.
---Lawrence on 8/7/10


Colonial America had a Biblical Method of education. Noah Webster [1758-1843] helped to establish the principle approach as the Standard Method of education in the new Republic of America. The principle approach to education inculcates [to impress upon the mind] in individuals the abilty to reason from the Bible to every aspect of life, as Christians, we know we are suppose to do this. Do we know how? To geography, astronomy, mathematics, history, national defense, foreign policy, or civil government.
---catherine on 6/2/07


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Mike, what you read in the Didache and the Early Church Fathers is also found in the Roman Catholic Church and all Eastern and Latin Rite Churches under the Pope and all Orthodox Churches.
---lorra8574 on 5/30/07


For once I agree with Jack, what is dewcribed in the Didachae and early Fathers is not found in pop-evangelism, and I will go a stage further and say it is probably truly found in the Orthodox church, or at leasdt the Greek Orthodox, which is the only one I have had much contact with.
---mike8384 on 5/30/07


Dr. Scott Hahn used to be a Prebyterian minister and a professor at a Calvinist college. From his indepth study of the Bible and early Christian history, he sought to recreate the worship style of the early Christians for his local church services. He was very successful and they loved it. It brought the scriptures to life and presented a beautiful way to praise God. Then he found out that Catholics had been celibrating this way for nearly 2000 years. He is now a Roman Catholic.
---lorra8574 on 5/23/07


John, I have read the scriptures and the Catholic Mass is very familiar to what is to be found in the scriptures and supported by the writings of the early Christians. Although I think it might be a little shorter than one of Paul's services (he really liked to preach).

This is why I haven't faced many of the problems with church services posted here. The Scriptures are one of the main pillars of our service and are always read at every mass, not just when it is preferable to the minister.
---lorra8574 on 5/6/07


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John- Jewish worship in the Temple was given to them by God.

In the very early days of Christianity, this worship was carried over into the beginnings of the Catholic church.

Some of these practices still exist today.
---William_Halverson on 5/5/07


There are lots of early Christian writings (though post-Biblical) that describe how the early Church worshipped: the Letters of Ignatius, the Apology of Justin, the Didache, among others.

What's interesting is how similar their descriptions are.

Read them, if you dare, but something tells me you're not going to like what they say.

They certainly won't match the pop-evangelical ideas of worship.
---Jack on 5/4/07


.emcee, synagogue? I did not say synagogue, that is your word. Which house is my Papa's house? my house, the house where only Jesus Christ the Almighty is worshipped.
---Eloy on 5/3/07


John, your confusion is that the English language developed in a peculiar way. The English word "priest" as used by Catholics, developed from the Greek word "presbuteros" which means "elder". One does not mean the other, a Catholic Priest is an Elder in the NT sense, and is the same term as something you might be more familiar with "presbyter".
---lorra8574 on 5/3/07


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John P2: In the RCC, we still have the Presbyterate, but we call them priests and do not confuse them with the other type of priest from the Greek word "hiereus" which means priest not elder. Jesus is a hiereus, Catholic priests are presbuteros.
---lorra8574 on 5/3/07


John P3: Something that may help. At the very first Passover, the Jews slaughtered their lambs and used the blood to mark their houses and ate the lamb as part of a special type of feast that would become part of a permanent celebration. But there were no priests yet to make this offering. Moses was an Elder not a priest. And the lambs were slaughtered for a feast eaten with the individual households (shared if necessary).
---lorra8574 on 5/3/07


John P4: When Jesus celebrated the Passover with His followers, He inaugerated a new type of Passover for us. We celebrate it communally rather than just individually, but it is because we are part of a larger family now. 1 Cor 4:15, Paul has no children yet describes himself as a spiritual father to his spiritual children.
---lorra8574 on 5/3/07


Eloy::"Papas house of Prayer"Were you refering to the synogagoues of the Jewish race? Jesus started off by teaching there. But his people denyed Him & He introduces His own ChurchIn Matt16:17-19& on His death The veil of that covenant was wrent in 2.so which house is papa's house you allude to.
---Emcee on 5/3/07


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First Church: Church is our Papa's house of prayer. Its purpose is to worship and praise Christ, minister to the body, and fellowship with the saints. Its mission is to propagate the gospel, offer sanctuary and ministering, and make new converts of all people. Please Read- Genesis 28:16-22; Psalms100; 134; Lamentations 3:41; Matthew 5:23,24; 21:13-16; Luke 14:15-24; 24:51-53; Acts 2:36-47; 3:1-21; 13:5; I Corinthians 12:4-31; 14:26-40.
---Eloy on 5/3/07


I would stronly disagree that the service in a Catholic church has any resemblance to the New Testament services in the Bible. The format is found in 1 Cor.14:28-31. I see no mention of a priest in the N.T. either. And what about the Lord's Supper without people taking the cup? Tradition or not, this isn't a resemblance of what I read in the BIble.
---john on 5/3/07


Be careful, Bob.

The only answer to that question is the T-word (tradition).

EVERYONE, EVERY CHURCH, has tradition.

The real question is: What kind of tradition are we going to have? New ones made up according to current fancies or fads? Or tradition going bak to the time of the Apostles?
---Jack on 5/2/07


The services in my church are very close to what the early Christians celebrated, as described in detail by Justin Martyr (about 160 AD) and loosely described in the NT - see Paul's Epistles and Revelations (the Mass on earth is patterned after the Mass in Heaven).

Dr. Scott Hahn, when he was still a Presbyterian minister, recreated the early Christian service for his congregation and they loved it. But he knew he was in trouble when former Catholics told him he had recreated the Catholic Mass.
---lorra8574 on 5/2/07


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If you want an idea of what the early church was like, then you only have to look at the Catholic Church.

The Catholic church followed the patterns of the Judaic practices. They haven't departed that much even today.
---William_Halverson on 5/2/07


You need to do some extra Biblical research on the Internet. You want to find a translation of the Apostolic Fathers Collection, Christian commentators from the 2nd - 4th Centuries CE. Start with the writings of Justin Martyr and continue through Eusebius Pamphillius. These writing will give you a lot of information of how the early Christian church developed including locations and formats of worship and doctrinal development. Online Seminary Libraries are you best locations for this information.
---notlaw99 on 5/2/07


It looks like the meetings didn't have a lot of people because the instructions are for everyone who had a tongue or a prophecy or a song, to give it. Can you imagine having a mega church and trying to implement that? They frequently met in houses but wherever they met it was expected for the congregation to participate because they all had gifts to use to build eachother.
---john on 5/2/07


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