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USA Founders Spirit-Filled

Some come here and say America was not founded as a Christian nation. My Pastor says all the founders were all spirit filled-believers, can this be backed up?

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 ---ASHLEY on 5/9/07
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No. It not only can't be backed up, it is totally not historical. Your pastor is making up history. Many of the founders of this nation were not even Christians. Many of them were Masons. Besides, there were many, many founders (settlers) of this nation who were not even mentioned in history. Also, this country was first settled by Indian tribes. They were the actual founders of this nation and should not be forgotten. Your pastor needs to get history right.
---Susie on 6/22/08


Some people are very ignorant of American history. I display what the actually founders said, it is still rejected.
---MikeM on 6/5/07


What mikeM. is really telling you, catherine, mormons believe the founding fathers of this country were mormon.
---Martha on 6/5/07


"The metaphysical insanities of Athanasius, of Loyola, and of Calvin, are, to my understanding, mere lapses into polytheism, differing from paganism only by being more unintelligible."
..........To Jared Sparks, 1820
---MikeM on 6/5/07


George Washington 1789=="It is the duty of all Americans to acknowledge the Providence of Almighty God, to obey His will, to be grateful for His benefits, and humbly to implore His protection and favor".
---catherine on 6/4/07




Catherine, The "form of this nation's government" is that of a republic. A republic is 100% a pagan conceptsecular concept. This comes from Athens greece, 500BC and has nothing to do with the Bible. Bible based government throughout history have always been dictaterships, Oliver Cromwell in England,and all the other Bible-based regimes were hostile to Democracy.
---MikeM on 6/4/07


Catherine, again, the Founders of this country were deist, freemasons, and unitarians. I will say they were 'well immersed' in the Judueo-Christian tradition, and it was no secular society as we have today. Their hostility towards organized religion and concepts like the trinity and sola scriptora was intense. Too many people missed history 101
---MikeM on 6/4/07


Ashley, your "pastor" says all the founding fathers were Mormons.
---sam on 6/3/07


A Christian nation is determined by its form of government, not who formed it. If the form of a nation's government is shaped by Biblical ideas of man and government, in contrast to pagan or man centered ideas, then the nation is a Christian nation. In 1867===The North American Review declared that "The American Government and Constitution is the...political expression of Christian ideas." Our Founders were Universally convinced of this truth.
---catherine on 6/2/07


Why do you go to mere humans for help? Turn away from your sins, call out my name and I will heal your land. If you don't I will destroy you. I can stop the rains, I can send diseases, I can turn all nations against you. I am God I can do all these things. Turn away from your sins call out my name and I will heal your land. I the Lord has spoken.
---catherine on 5/29/07




Carly: I realize you have opinions and positions, but you should let go of them when appropriate. don't let judgement get in the way of learning. Instead of saying "Prove it to me and then I'll believe it," you should ask, "What if this were true?" and explore the possibilities. By the way, what I say is found in the Bible. Examples of cultures and nations falling is found, too. Remember: there is nothing new under the sun, especially concerning humans and nations.
---Steveng on 5/14/07


No Mormon would ever use the term spirit-filled. So, this Ashley couldn't possibly be Mormon.
---Susie on 5/13/07


You know what Steveng, that's rather overboard and extreme.
I knew you would be back today for your purging. I knew it this morning.
Give up that weird art, and you won't have to feel so guilty.
---Carly on 5/13/07


God chose theIsraelites to bring to the world His purpose. The Israelites failed, it was Jesus who brought God's purpose tothe Gentiles tospread theword of God. Knowing His people couldn't survive a few hundred years, God needed to create a country that will help His people endure until the end so He create the US. Most of the founding fathers were not Christians, but He used people that were more favorable. In the beginning, the US was great. Now we havefallen to Satan. God will no longer protect the US.
---Steveng on 5/13/07


ashley told us 'SHE' HOLDS THE PRIESTHOOD.

That was a real goof on MikeM.'s part. Women don't hold the priesthood in the mormon church. So good ole MikeM. is ashley whenever HE needs to be.
---sammy on 5/13/07


Jack, the office of 'high mason'-high degrees, contrary to popular belief existed before 'Pike.'
---MikeM on 5/13/07


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** Jack- I would like to know where you got your infromation. **

In a book entitled FREEMASONRY by Charles Finney.
---Jack on 5/13/07


Part 2:


Furthermore, Ashley, if you would only stop to think about it, you'd see that Red China would not think the US Constitution would be divinely inspired either, so the idea they would look upon it as "heretical" is baseless.
---Jack on 5/13/07


Part 3:

**the constitution was inspired by God for the people, by the people to guide them in righteousness**

Ashley, have you ever actually READ the U. S. Constitution?

It sets up a federal system of representative democracy. No more. It certainly is not a moral or spirital treatise.

Just how does it "lead people into righteousness"? Please elaborate.
---Jack on 5/13/07


I agree with Ashley. part 1: The 1st U.S. Constitution of America is called The Mayflower Compact, signed on November 11, 1620. The Mayflower Compact is a Constitution in that the settlers agreed to form a government for the general good, and to be bound by its rules. And the settlers recognized that government could be legitimate only if it originated with the combined consent of those it claimed to govern.
---Eloy on 5/13/07


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pt.2: "We Covenant ourselves together into a Civil Body Politic for the Glory of God and our better ordering and advancement of the Christian Faith. We enact, Constitute and frame such just and equal Laws, Ordinances, Acts, Constitutions and Offices as thought most suitable and convenient for the general good of the Colony, to which we promise all due submission and obedience."
---Eloy on 5/13/07


The 2nd U.S. Constitution of America was signed on September 17, 1787

We the people of the United States, in order to form a more perfect union, establish justice, insure domestic tranquility, provide for the common defense, promote the general welfare, and secure the blessings of liberty to ourselves and our posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.
---Eloy on 5/13/07


The 1st Amendment of the U.S. Constitution sanctioned on December 15, 1791, The precedent stipulates: Congress will make no law prohibiting the free exercise of religion.

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances.
---Eloy on 5/13/07


The 1st U.S. Constitution of America is called The Mayflower Compact, signed on November 11, 1620. The 2nd U.S. Constitution of America was signed on September 17, 1787. The 1st Amendment of the U.S. Constitution sanctioned on December 15, 1791, The precedent stipulates: "Congress will make no law prohibiting the free exercise of religion". I encourage all to freely and publicly share their faith. And if ANY ONE tries to censor your right to this freedom, sue them.
---Eloy on 5/13/07


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ashley I am in no way denying the divinity of GOd. You claim God inspired the constitution of the united states, this is not in accordance with scripture. God says, in His divinely inspired word, that the nations are nothing to Him. DOes He make an exception for america? Why would He? America is no less evil than any other nation. I am not saying I hate america, I am merely stating that I belong to Christ above all things, this includes my current geographical dwelling place.
---Ryan_Z on 5/12/07


MikeM I was unaware that Thomas Jefferson was considered a prophet, apostle or one that spoke for God. It always appears in the bible that those that rebel are always in rebellion against God and when one turns from rebellion it is declared repentance, although I may be wrong.
---Ryan_Z on 5/12/07


Yes, Ryan, rebellion sometimes is from God.

"Rebellion against tyrannts is Gods will"-Thomas Jefferson

Ashley is LDS???????
---MikeM on 5/12/07


Now I have heard everything. Its no wonder the world is in such bad shape and evil runs rampant. Now you are all denying the divinity of God and that He inspires others. If you don't like the constitution, move to communist China where your heretic views will end in your death. If you don't like living in a democracy, leave. it is that simple, but don't try to poison the minds of others through your own selfishness and rebellion. You show every time you open your mouths whom you serve and it isn't God.
---ashley on 5/12/07


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ashley, the constitution was inspired by God? Well it should be cannoized and placed in scritpure. The Word of God is the only work that I know of that was inspired by God. THe founding of America was done in a spirit of rebellion from the established government. Is rebellion from GOd? The breaking point for the colonies was "Taxation without representation" so it came down to money. The constitution is to God as Satan is to holiness.
---Ryan_Z on 5/11/07


Ashley-I offer only the facts. I 'personally' believe they were inspired, but that is an subjective belief.

Ashley-Instead of offering opinions, or rhetoric try FACTS. People will be good or evil in any society no matter how religious. Americas founders, BTW were know for their fhilandering, Jefferson had affair with 14 year old girl, young Ben0 Franklin used 'social clubs' of Paris. Many of the founders followed a 'double standerd of morality, upsetting their home bound wives, thats a FACT.
---MikeM on 5/11/07


Jack- I would like to know where you got your infromation. Washingtons 'high mason'
apron was presented to the Grand Lodge of Pennsylvania by the Washington Benevolent Society on July 3, 1829 and is now on display in the Grand Lodge Museum at the Masonic Temple in Philadelphia. It is consistant with the apron given in the 'higher orders' (I am not mason)
---MikeM on 5/11/07


it often amazes me how people can be so blind to truths. the constitution was inspired by God for the people, by the people to guide them in righteousness. who cares which church or not they belonged to. that is irrelevent. the fact they put God as the leader of the nation is what is important. what gives people the right to take God out of society to promote their own bigotry and hatred of others. a nation where God is absent is ripe for destruction. remember Sodom and Gomorrah.
---ashley on 5/11/07


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**George Washington was a 32 degree mason.**

Impossible, as the Scottish Rite with its 32 degrees (and 33rd honorary one) did not exist in the 18th century.

There is evidence that he never even went beyond the first degree: Entered Apprentice.

Would you like to try again?

(I'm not defending masonry, simply giving the historical truth of a particular issue.)
---Jack on 5/11/07


If your pastor was referring to Spirit-filled as being pentecostal as we use today, none of them were.
---Susie on 5/11/07


It's not nearly soon enough for a drive-by fruiting.
---LimeintheCoconut on 5/11/07


Is it too soon to call this thread a bailing?
---MikeM on 5/11/07


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The founders were well immersed in the Christian tradition. This is clearly reflected in some of the symbols in D.C. You will also see a plethera of masonic designs all over DC. In fact the whole city is laid out on a masonic grid, look it up, an old picture of the city, you will get the picture. Those specific Bible verses relate to specific masonic codes. George Washington was a 32 degree mason.



'National Treasure' does only scratch the picture, but you can 'get the picture' on video
---MikeM on 5/10/07


As you walk up the steps to the building which houses the US supreme court you can see near the top of the building a row of the world's law givers and each one is facing the middle who is facing forward with a full frontal view, it is Moses and he is holding the Ten Commandments.
---wayne on 5/10/07


in the supreme court courtroom the two oak doors have the Ten Commandments engraved on each lower portion of each door...
There are bible verses etched in stone all over the Federal building and Monuments in Washing DC.
MikeM..get the picture?
---wayne on 5/10/07


Wayne,major correction "52 of the 56 founders of the constitution were members of the established orthodox" They were, as babies baptized into the anglican, or calvinist religions, but most, as adults did NOT recieve communion, nor were they confirmed. "being members" especially in the matter of the founding fathers, meant little. 15 signers, freemason, most Deist, including james Madison,who was also a Unitarian, as were a dozen others,- rejecting the Nicea Trinity. Orthodox hardly!
---MikeM on 5/10/07


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Patrick Henry wanted a theocracy, was cencured at the C. Congress.

"The trinity is incomprensible gibberish, rendering deity unknowable and unlovable"
-James Madison
---MikeM on 5/10/07


John Hay, the first supreme court justic said " Americans should select and perfer christians as their rulers"
52 of the 55 founders of the constitution were members of the established orthodox churches in the colonies
---wayne on 4/17/07
---wayne on 5/9/07


what country are you from? James Madison fourth president, stated "we have staked the whole political institutions upon the capacity of man kind for self government upon the capicity of each and all of us to govern ourselves to control ourselves to sustain ourselves according to the ten Commandments of God."
---wayne on 5/9/07


Patrick Henry (founding father) said""It cannot be emphasized too strongly or too often that this great nation was founded not by religionists but by Christians, not on religions but on the Gospel of Jesus Christ"**
---wayne on 5/9/07


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I agree with Susie. Your pastor has bought into the propoganda machine and has thrown historical accuracy out the window.
---Ryan_Z on 5/9/07


For your Pastor to appear credible, he whould have to rely on the relitive ignorance of the laity. I have heard such things before, usually those who hold up such nonsence bail fast when confronted with reality.

However,if your Pastor is refering to the colonial 'founders,' they were mostly Anglicans and Calvinist(Puratins) They came here for freedom, as they did not have the freedom to persecute others in Europe.
---MikeM on 5/9/07


Washington was a Mason who REFUSED to attend communion services or be confirmed, to his wife's sorrow.

Benjamin Franklin frankly admitted he was a Deist, converting to it after hearing it condemned from pulpits.

Thomas Jefferson denied the miraculous in the NT, comparing the Virgin Birth of Jesus with the legend of the birth of Athena.

And so it goes.
---Jack on 5/9/07


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