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Founded On Christian Principles

People boasting America is founded on Christian principles also revel at the brilliance of their representative republic based on a Greek model of democracy. How can you blend a biblical based theocracy, with a gentile/Greek model of democracy and call it a Judaeo-Christian inspired government?

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 ---Ryan_Z on 5/24/07
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American inhabitated by "gentle savadges" of asiatic ancestory was invaded by religious zealots seeking a safer place to practice their own forms of religion. First Jamestown, then plymouth, tho evidence exsists that they were no the first. Eventually established 13 colonies each of the religion of their choosing. Each oppresive. Eventually united to fight taxes.
---dan on 4/6/08

These united colonies brought together ideas from 'traditional' christianity, french humanism, masonery, atheism, pantheism, etc. Set up an expierment of self government through a democratic process under the umberella of a republic, ensuring that the majority did not oppress the minority.
---dan on 4/6/08

3. Patrick Henry the most 'christian' wanted government in every aspect of religion. Thomas Jefferson the author of the constitution suspended it to make the Louisiana purchase, believing that the greater good overrode even the law. Sought seperation of church and state. Franklin was a Quaker when it was needed, otherwise a humanist to the core. How it all works remains to be seen. Read the Federalists Papers in their entireity to gain an insight to how they all worked together.
---dan on 4/6/08

democracy.the only relationship that Gods kingdom has with any earth based government is free will choice.Gods kingdom is spiritual, spiritual truth, love to say any government is based on christian principles is false.governments are of men,not Gods principles.if they were we would have heaven on earth,and man we are FAR FROM THAT.
---tom2 on 3/21/08

Originally America was founded to bring glory to the Lord. Its founders, Washington and the others were spirit filled Christians. Atheist revisionists have rewritten history, leaving out Christian heritage and the fact that MOST were Christians. True, Democracy is pagan, but it was second to America being a Bible based country and government. Separation of Church and State is NOT in the constitution and the bill of rights-pushed by the apostate Jefferson was anti-God and should have not been ratified.
---John on 7/16/07

God will not share His glory with no man, His creatures. This is why America will never win a war. Men would stand around and pat each other on the backs and shake each other's hands and never look up in God's face.
---catherine on 7/16/07

(1) The Revolution fighters borrowed from rich sponsors, I have been informed. If this is true, was "loaning" to the rebels a clever way of getting "mercenaries" to do their fighting, in order to get their wealth free from British bloodsucking?
---Bill_bila5659 on 5/31/07

(2) In the United States, we have a middle class. The middlers have enough stuff so they aren't likely to rise up against the higher-up people.

IS this by design? Well-to-doers in young America knew what happened to the French aristocrats who had only a very poor class below them.

So, I'm curious if ones learned from history, and so they arranged to have a middle buffer class above the poor.
---Bill_bila5659 on 5/31/07

NO matter what man may come up with in creative plans in way of protecting us, rest for sure the Devil has his plans to counteract those plans that man makes.
---catherine on 5/30/07

Jack, Now that I reread Rom 1, basically yes, except most deist did not see deity as personal.

Implication of the Divine I do with.
---MikeM on 5/29/07

I have already criticized how the U.S. has not conducted itself as it would if its foundation was truly Christian.

But back to the original question...about if America's form of government can be Biblically theocratic AND Greco-democratic. And can you call this "mix" Judaeo-Christian? (IF I understood this right)

In Acts chapter six, we see how the Church leadership delegated to the people the responsibility to select their first seven deacons > sounds democratic, to me.
---Bill_bila5659 on 5/29/07

Chapter 15 of Acts shows what happened concerning if Gentile Christians must be circumcised and keep the Law of Moses. The Church met and we had "much dispute" about this (Acts 15:7) > sounds democratic, to me.

But Peter and other leaders chosen by God were used to settle the matter > sounds theocratic.

And with this came agreement. They moved with CONSENSUS > "the apostles and elders, with the whole church" (verse 22). So, it was the "best of everything".
---Bill_bila5659 on 5/29/07

**They were inspired by deist ideas, such as divine revelation was given through nature,**

Doesn't St. Paul say this same basic thing in Romans 1?
---Jack on 5/29/07

1.Wayne; What 'specific' christian principles were the founders inspired by? The constitution is a secular document. It is inspired by the masonic leveling of man, all are equal. They were inspired by deist ideas, such as divine revelation was given through nature, and AT MOST was revealed to individuals, not to nations or tribes.

Greatness is relitive. Manifest Destiny and its victims ranged from Wounded Knee to Saigon. The economic powerhouse had winners and losers.
---MikeM on 5/29/07

2. The greatness of America is its constitution. There is a dialectic paradigm embodied within the constitution that, over time, with much blood and sweat democratized groups and individuals.

As to religion its pluralism. DeToquville noted this in 1831, a reliance on deity, not goverment, or more important, goverment sponsered religion.
---MikeM on 5/29/07

thanks Jack: thats interesting...I thought the ones who landed at P/Rock were the first humans there ever..yes, I read you correctly..what book would u recommend I read on that subject please..I am not in the U.S
---jana on 5/28/07

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I don't think anyone is "bailing"
I am thankful to live in this country, and that it's founders were inspired by christian principles. If you don' agree with this, then please tell why you think this country has achieved the greatness that we have. I'm listening....
---wayne on 5/28/07

Thank you, Jack, for telling me that > I should not assume all churches are the same as what I have seen.

If I want to share personally with people in Iraq, I've found that I can use the Christianet "search" service to seek friendships with people in Iraq, Iran, and elsewhere.
---Bill_bila5659 on 5/28/07

In America, each adult can have one vote. But this can make each individual one's OWN dictator!!! And in our selfish struggling, each for one's own ways, we keep divided so we can't control the ones at the top. So, maybe democracy is a "mirage", a clever way of the ones in power keeping the people OUT of control.

And, as our own dictators, we can do our own selves more harm than a tyrant might.
---Bill_bila5659 on 5/28/07

I tend to agree with most of the posters here, not much to add. I note when the subject comes up, those who promote the notion that Americas founders were 'devout Christians' bail.

As to the Constitution it self, its ideas were enlightenment, deist. John Locke, Hume and others were the influence. A the Idea of a republic itself is a refutation of Biblical principles.
---MikeM on 5/27/07

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**do we hear public prayer for Iraqi people, as well as for American soldiers?**

You do in my church, as most of the members have middle eastern, including Iraqi, roots.

But for the most part, Bill, you've made good points.
---Jack on 5/27/07

** Jack, correct me friend, wasnt america populated first by those who landed at Plymouth Rock and found everything in place for them, and found noone at all around to have prepared them a place to stay?**

No, Jana, it was not.

First off, the Jamestown Colony was founded 13 years BEFORE the landing at Plymouth Rock.

Next, America was already populated by the first peoples who came here, collectively called at the time "Indians."
---Jack on 5/27/07

(1) How did they get their bloodshed or by loving their enemies?

(2) What did they do to the Torries, after they won, forgive them and urge them to stay to be reconciled, or drive them out of the country?

(3) When ones found out that sovereign tribal nations inhabited lands out west, did they respect their sovereignty, or covet their neighbors' lands and violently take them?
---Bill_bila5659 on 5/26/07

(4) When they made treaties with native tribal nations, did they keep their word?

(5) After ones attacked and killed wives and children, on purpose, while moving native nations out of their lands, did they bring those killers to justice and restore whatever had been taken?

Such behavior and failure does not have Christ's love and love commandments as its foundation. And no American history teacher has ever made sure I know this.
---Bill_bila5659 on 5/26/07

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"Jesus answered, 'My kingdom is not of this world. If My kingdom were of this world, My servants would fight, so that I should not be delivered to the Jews; but now My kingdom is not from here.'" (John 18:36)

"'But I say to you, love your enemies, bless those who curse you, do good to those who hate you, and pray for those who spitefully use you and persecute you," (Matthew 5:44)
---Bill_bila5659 on 5/26/07

In response to 9/11 > what is the Christian foundation response > to call for revenge, or, "Father, forgive them, for they do not know what they do?"? To love enemies, or to hate and fear (1 John 4:18)?

Soldiers have killed women and kids in Iraq; do we hear public prayer for Iraqi people, as well as for American soldiers? Do we care in prayer for other people and their countries as ourselves?
---Bill_bila5659 on 5/26/07

Jacj, there is no freedom outside the Lord's freedom. I do not know if America was founded on Christianity, conflicting evidence seems to make it difficult to know for sure. What is clear in a democracy man rules=sin rules. In a theocracy God rules=sin contained. Democracy is moral chaos. Does the scripture say mans will be be done, or thy will be done?
---John on 5/26/07

Every new and successful example therefore of a perfect separation between ecclesiastical and civil matters, is of importance"
..........James Madison, 1822,

"Strongly guarded as is the separation between Religion and Government in the Constitution of the United States, the danger of encroachment by Ecclesiastical Bodies, may be illustrated by precedents already furnished in their short history"
.....James Madison, undated,
---MikeM on 5/26/07

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Patrick Henry (founding father) said""It cannot be emphasized too strongly or too often that this great nation was founded not by religionists but by Christians, not on religions but on the Gospel of Jesus Christ
---wayne on 5/26/07

In OT Israel there was a theocracy(God rules) Who are we to second guess the Word as to what Gods goverment is supposed to be? As I understand the so-called 'Founders' were apostate Christians. Yes, republic is mans laws, theocracy is God's law. Joshua said, "As for me and my house, we will serve the Lord" who will you serve?
---John on 5/26/07

As you walk up the steps to the building which houses the US supreme court you can see near the top of the building a row of the world's law givers and each one is facing the middle who is facing forward with a full frontal view, it is Moses and he is holding the Ten Commandments.
---wayne on 5/26/07

John Hay, the first supreme court justic said " Americans should select and perfer christians as their rulers"
52 of the 55 founders of the constitution were members of the established orthodox churches in the colonies
---wayne on 5/26/07

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Doesn't matter as they are attempting to take Christianity out of this country and world anyway. And without going into much detail, truth is we are not a republic but a covert fashistic world and the US representatives are merely powerless pawns. Soon enough we will be a Christless overt fashistic police state that involves the entire world.
---jody on 5/25/07

every government that has leaders that make decisions without divine guidance are doomed.any country or government that lives culturally without morals,or biblical truths will fail.why?cause its citizens will be given over too their flesh.then anything goes.
---tom2 on 5/25/07

Since sin came into the world human leadership was established. Biblically, government is supposed to be theocratic (God Rules). Although neither is followed very closely, I believe it is rightly called Judaeo Christian because of the influence of the Old Testament Jews and Christ.
---john on 5/25/07

This seems to come up again and again. Its very clear America was not founded as a Christian nation as Jack said. In past threads the uninformed who propose otherwise 'head for the hills' when confronted with the facts that the founders were freemasons, deist and Unitarians.

As to colonial times, the calvinist and other came here to escape ersecution, as they did not have the freedom to persecute other as the bigger religions did in Europs.
---MikeM on 5/25/07

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Jack, correct me friend, wasnt america populated first by those who landed at Plymouth Rock and found everything in place for them, and found noone at all around to have prepared them a place to stay? And them who knew God and were running away from persecution? I remember reading about it and how the first unbelieving humans landed first and didnt survive due to the harshness of the terrain..vast difference to the 2nd group who landed after them...
---jana on 5/25/07

everytime Ive heard that, they meant that our laws and precedental actions were originaly inspired by Christian and Jewish beliefs. But presently it would seem as though our choices are inspired by Satan.
---Jon_NPV on 5/24/07

how manny times do we have to discuss this.
Jack, you're still as ignorant as ever.
---wayne on 5/24/07

Jack - In order for you to say that you must either be an exceptionally informed scholar, or prone to making bold, sweeping generalizations in order to make your opinion seem more important than what it really is. Hope you aren't bluffing here...
---Anthony on 5/24/07

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Those who say the USA was found on Christian principles know nothing about history, the Constitution, or even Christianity.
---Jack on 5/24/07

Say what? What exactly did all of that mean?
It came across like religious mumbo jumbo.
---Toby on 5/24/07

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