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Dr. Kavorkian Gets Out Of Jail

Dr Kavorkian gets out of prison tomorrow. While reading the blog about putting pets to sleep, I was wondering what you thought about this. Is it only humane for pets? What about people?

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 ---sue on 6/1/07
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I disagree with both Bonnie and Moldy. There is very rarely a terminal cancer patient who cannot be made comfortable with medication properly administrated.(however,all too often, it is not). And I don't believe Jesus would approve of someone who assists a suicide. There are ALWAYS alternatives to suicide...why not help the suffering person find them?
If Dr. K did this, I'd consider him a hero. (anyone can be a killer!)
---Donna66 on 2/18/11


If anyone has ever had a loved one suffer and die from cancer then they would beleive in Dr. K
---Bonnie on 2/18/11


Dr. K is a hero and should be praised for his work. Anyone calling for his death is an idiot. This man is someone to be looked up at. He is a brave person whom I admire. Jesus would have loved him too!
---moldy on 6/29/10


jean -- Have you told your doctor how much pain you are having? It could be that your pain is not being managed as well as it could be.
---Donna66 on 6/21/10


I have cancer Im in pain every day. I cant imagion what the end will be like. I try not to think about it. I just hope I have someone who will make it ....easy????
---jean on 6/21/10




Elder--

My post was intended to be a bit of comic irony in response to Shannons decrying
keeping people alive with machines, medicines, tubes, pumps, etc.

I hoped that my statement would be SO absurd that people would not take it seriously. (And I probably assumed readers having more medical knowledge than they actually do)

Of course, machines, medicines, tubes, pumps are designed to keep people alive so they can recover. I think Shannon has in mind cases where someone is in a "permanent vegetative state", which is something we cannot predict. It's due to lack of oxygen to the brain. When we try to save lives, by CPR especially, there is always that risk. But we still try to save lives.
---Donna66 on 5/1/10


Donna do you realize that you just described the condition I was in. I had all of the below, that you wrote, happen to me in the year 2000. Without the machine, CPR, blood - 17 pints, oxygen, drains, intervention and more I would have been dead for almost 10 years now. Do you really think that is right?
"There IS a way to stop this and it's simple. Just stop doing CPR on anybody of any age. Don't try to stop the bleeding. Don't apply oxygen. Sure there is a chance you'll save them and return them to a normal life...but, you can't be sure. They might end up with irreversable brain damage. So why take the chance? Just don't intervene."
---Donna66 on 4/30/10
---Elder on 5/1/10


Shannon--
//(We) already play God by keeping people alive with machines, medicines, tubes, pumps, etc. We step in daily with millions of people and assert our technology on God's matters and intercept death//

I understand your feeling very well. I've seen far too many in the condition you describe.
There IS a way to stop this and it's simple. Just stop doing CPR on anybody of any age. Don't try to stop the bleeding. Don't apply oxygen. Sure there is a chance you'll save them and return them to a normal life...but, you can't be sure. They might end up with irreversable brain damage. So why take the chance? Just don't intervene.
---Donna66 on 4/30/10


Donna8679 -- Would you care to elaborate on just how you believe hospice "kills" people?
I think you may be misinterpeting what hospice does.
---Donna66 on 4/29/10


No need for kivorkian, just call hospice. They kill people on a daily basis. I have personally witnessed 3.
---donna8679 on 4/29/10




Only part of my post appeared.
Morphine does indeed slow respirations as well as relieve pain. That is why it is often given to imminently dying patients...makes death more comfortable.

Dr. Kevorkian helps those who think they may die and fear the pain. Too bad, because often there are other means of relieving the "pain".

Cowboy-- Contrary to what you would think, when a person is dying, hunger and thirst shut down, it's a natural process. Forcing nutrition and fluid will not save them and may even increase their discomfort.
---Donna66 on 4/26/10


If you want to die early there is always Dr's. Smith and Wesson.
The only thing this wacko Kevorkian has contributed to the medical field is death. Those who support his medical oath lie are just as bad.
---Elder on 4/26/10


If a person is seriously intending on killing himself, he generally succeeds.

However, physician-assisted suicide is nothing at all but a desire on the part of the person to shift the moral responsibility of his wish for self-destruction onto someone else.

Just wait.

The "right to die with dignity" will soon become the "duty to die"--and eventually the "right to kill."
---Cluny on 4/26/10


relaxes the diaphram and aids breathing to slow and eventually stop - havent we already crossed the line
---Donna66 on 4/26/10


It is totally humane for pets and humans. I would be so happy to have someone like the Dr. to help me on my way. Course I am one of those who have given their bodies to medical science, like medical research. After all its only a body. If I was put in a situation where I had no choice about my life, such as cancer, or whatever, that is incurable, the Dr. would be my first call. I have had cancer and may again, but I do not plan to go through all the treatments if it uncuriable. I want to tell Dr. Kavorkian that there should be lots more understanding about what he believes in.
---Helen on 4/25/10


If they want to die...Do it themself. There are many ways to do it without incorporating others into this act!
---James on 1/15/10

That was Kevorkian's idea but he still went to prison. At the end, he only advised people how to kill themselves painlessly and quickly. In some cases he supplied the equipment, but he let them do the act of killing in an attempt to skirt the law.

If I was going to attempt it I would also want help with the method so I did not botch it up.
---obewan on 1/15/10


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If they want to die...Do it themself. There are many ways to do it without incorporating others into this act!
---James on 1/15/10


One is against the law, the other-one is not. Pets are not people. At the same token the television will portray the horror of abusing animals, yet people are being mistreated and abused all over this world. No one is talking too much about that.
---catherine on 8/27/08


Hi Shannon, I'm sooo sorry about your family. You make some very very good points too. Anyway mainly just really sorry about the loss of family. :( I barely survived the relatively few losses in my family and I pray special blessings on you and others like you who have suffered so much more. May God minister to your heart deeply. Love in Christ, Mary
---Mary on 8/26/08


Hi, I'm really suprised reading this blog that we've forgotten as a culture that we already play God by keeping people alive with machines, medicines, tubes, pumps, etc. We step in daily with millions of people and assert our technology on God's matters and intercept death... .extend life. I've lost most of my family and I have to tell you, "medicine" has prolonged many of my families lives and not always for the best. Morphine relaxes the diaphram and aids breathing to slow and eventually stop - havent we already crossed the line. We are a freak culture keeping people alive on machines and slowing the act of death rather than humanely helping people tranisiton to the next life. I think we are more humane to animals.
---shannon on 8/25/08


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Dr Kavorkian is partly correct but the law is not on his side.This is where the problem is. Until an issue becomes law, we are not to take that into our own hands.These type issues are very tough to deal with. If someone is so ill with no hope of recovery, perhaps, taking them out of their misery would be a kinder things, to do.Abortion is similar. Depending on the circumstances the child was conceived under, it may be better to abort.
---Robyn on 4/10/08


Hi; I can understand the desire to help people die but I still feel strongly it's God's job to determine when they die, not theirs or ours. And yes, I was tempted to help my father when I watched him suffer terribly at the end. :( So I can understand it but I think it's still wrong.
---Mary on 4/10/08


I think that allowing euthanasia would be a very slippery slope. We cannot play God and decide who will die and when. I know it can be very hard to watch someone suffer and know nothing else can be done, I went through that with my dad, but God gives life and only He has the righ to take it.
---maryj9396 on 6/21/07


Lynet; the DNR papers doesn't mean the feeding to be stopped. This means that if the person is dying they don't want the Doctors to help them, resitate them. My mom was a DNR, and she said if her heart stopped she didn't want any resitating done on her. She still had medicine and food to eat.
---Rebecca_D on 6/5/07


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Nurse Robert,
As I said there are instances when treatments or the lack therof are not the same. I, unlike some others am not an authority. But you, were not there.
The great thing about life is we can agree to disagree and that without being unkind.
I will leave these posts like that.
God Bless
---Lynet on 6/5/07


Lynet, I am sorry for your loss.

The information you gave IS incorrect. Signing a DNR does not mean that medical care will stop, only the act of resusitation when death comes. If a family choose to stop all treatment, there are still things that can be done to stop the pain and suffering. Was your mother placed on hospice? If the hospital did not offer that, then they did you and your mother a diservice.
---NurseRobert on 6/5/07


I for one do not want to live in a persistive vegatative state. When my time has come, I don't want it prolonged by machines, feeding tubes included. I do NOT beleive that is what God intended for us.
---NurseRobert on 6/4/07
I am in total agreement with you Robert.
---NVBarbara on 6/5/07


Melissa, with the good care Terry. S. was receiving, she probably would have lived much longer. Her family wanted that. You cannot tell me that the starvation process was without pain.
Some families want that, I've watched it. They quit feeding the person and let them die. I think it's horrible.
Why start the life support process if at some time you decide, that you've had enough.
So pull the plug, starve them, and let them die. Is that right?
---Cowboy on 6/5/07


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Bottom line, don't start this life support process if you're not going to follow through. Like Terry, midstream decide to take someone's life.
It would have been better never to have started it. That's your decision. Can YOU follow through until the end.
---Cowboy on 6/5/07


My relative had all of the chemo treatments.
He never wanted life support, he didn't take pain meds (morphine) until the last week. That's it. He was only in the hospital 3 days and died.
---Cowboy on 6/5/07


lynet, that is death.
Dr. Kavorkian assisted 130 people with suicide. Many family members felt their loved ones were in too much pain to know the responsibility of that decision.
I lost someone over a year's time. Although he was in pain for months, he wanted to be alive right up until the final moments. He was a young man and had many important things to share with his family.
---Cowboy on 6/5/07


I don't believe in assisted suicide at any cost.
Jesus paid the ultimate price and it was not without horrible pain. Jesus shows us how to live and how to die. Many experience pain at the time of dying.

Jesus refused that numbing agent on the Cross.
If Jesus did it, so should we.
What crown will you have to lay at the feet of Jesus if you take your own life?
---Cowboy on 6/5/07


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At the very moment I wrote this for you, I was thinking about Jesus dying on the Cross, He brought the numbing agent part back to my remembrance.
---Cowboy on 6/5/07


I am not saying that morphine, pain killers are wrong when your body is full of cancer or some other disease.
But I don't believe in assisted suicide to speed the dying process up.

What they did to Terry Shiavo was no better than a concentration camp. What a disaster that was.
---Cowboy on 6/5/07


Thank you Nurse Robert for your reply, as a medical professional. However I'm not spouting information, but my personal experience, and am offended at the accusation. If you have information which may be helpful, share it, don't wrongly judge.
My experience is limited to the illness and ultimate death of my mother. Perhaps most situations are basically the same, but differences do exist, I know what happened in her case as I was there daily, and told what was going to happen.
I could never forget.
---lynet on 6/4/07


Catherine; At what point does your "common sense" draw the line about killing?
---1st_cliff on 6/4/07


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Does anyone know whaat signing DNR papers in the hospital mean? ---lynet on 6/3/07

Actually, Lynet, I do, and its not what you are spouting. A DNR simply means that if your heart stops, you will NOT be resusitated. There are many levels of DNRs.
People with DNRs can have tube feeding and drugs as well as ventilator support.
---NurseRobert on 6/4/07


I spend a great deal of time dealing with this issue where I work. Just last night one of my favorite residents died. The family decided it was time to stop treatment. He passed peacefully in his sleep.

The decision to stop life prolonging treatment is difficult at best. I support the family in their wishes, giving them what wisdom I can and helping them to make those decisions.
---NurseRobert on 6/4/07


Each and everyone of you should have "living will" or advanced medical directives outlining just what you want done if you are in that situation.

I for one do not want to live in a persistive vegatative state. When my time has come, I don't want it prolonged by machines, feeding tubes included. I do NOT beleive that is what God intended for us.
---NurseRobert on 6/4/07


What is your opinion about a family member making the decision to take a person off of life support? There have been cases of people recovering, even after having been unhooked from life support (rare, I'm sure!) That is proof positive that God is in control and defies doctors' explanations. Do you think the person who makes that decision feels like they "killed" their loved one?
---melissa on 6/4/07


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Does anyone know whaat signing DNR papers in the hospital mean?
When those papers are signed it gives permission for all medical treatment to be stopped, up to and including feeding. However drugs are administered. It can take days or weeks for the patient to die. It's horrible, the patients really suffer.
Same thing, only slower, without fanfare.
As soon as a way to make money, and make it not seem so bad is discovered, Dr. Kovorkian's method will become a popular money making business.
---lynet on 6/3/07


Then Catherine, why did Joshua kill everyone in Canaan? Was God a hypocrite?
---NurseRobert on 6/3/07


1st cliff... there was no need to get so bent out of shape. Excuse me for saying kill and not murder. I just stated as I had learned it, but I think most of the people here know what the implied meaning is. Such pettiness.
---betty8468 on 6/3/07


**Whose to say what he did was wrong.**

God.
---Jack on 6/3/07


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Prisoners on death row are treated more humanely than Terry S. (with the exception of one recently that took eight attempts).
Dr. K. set everything up, so you could kill yourself. People have been in pain from disease since the fall. Are there biblical accounts of those with sickness and in pain, killing themselves.
---Raine on 6/3/07


Suffering and pain are often a part of death for everyone. Not too many die in their sleep. Heart attacks, cancer, some die on the operating room table, car wrecks, plane crashes. We came into this world with pain and most go out the same way. It's what the Bible said would happen.
Putting people down like animals is the easy way out, but it's not God's way.
---Raine on 6/3/07


Dr. K. provided a service, assisted suicide.
How will those who died ever repay him, with lasting gratitude. I don't think so.

Catherine, speaking of bugs, when I was 3/4, there was an older man in my neighborhood that sprayed all the ants on the sidewalk. As soon as I spotted him, I would run out and shake my finger and tell him to stop it, until he went back inside of his house. I'd tell him, don't you dare kill those ants anymore. He had to wait until I took my nap.
---Raine on 6/3/07


Robyn: No! Everyone did NOT think that the cruel starvation/dehydration murder of T. Schiavo was OK. If you will recall, it caused a great outcry (but alas, to no avail).
---Jerry on 6/3/07


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One of the Ten Commandments saids, and I my friend shall quote God, "Thou shalt not KILL". All of the rest about killing bugs I will leave that alone. For your commom sense that God gives to us at birth.
---catherine on 6/3/07


Betty; The bible says "You must not murder" not you must not kill, Otherwise you could not swat that mosquito or fly! No burgers,wings or ribs. Why do they shoot horses who break a leg? This subject is not cut-and-dried! There's room for much latitude! It was legal for the next of kin to kill the unintentional manslayer if he did not reach the "city of refuge"! Look it up.
---1st_cliff on 6/2/07


Dr. K has done no more than what they did in T Schiavo's case. They literally did the same thing. Everyone felt it was ok. Why is this? Dr. K is a legitimate doctor, not a quack. Whose to say what he did was wrong. It is mired in politics more than what we all have details on. All I know is: if a person is really suffering and there is no hope of getting better. Why not? When someone is disconnected from a ventilator, its the same thing. Most people agree with this.
---Robyn on 6/2/07


Raine: I would hate to see Dr. Kavorkian 'put down one of my family members' but I would also hate to see a loved one suffer so much. People pray all the time for God to 'take my loved one home' because they are in pain, suffering so much. People also have said that God works through people.
---sue on 6/2/07


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It seems the main problem with "assisted suicide" is that it has the potential to shift from an act of mercy to an act of money. If it ever became profitable to "help" people kill themselves then there would surely be cases of "pre-mature" death; in other words murder for the sake of increase in volume of sales/customers. Also, who gets to decide the point of futily living - the doctor, the patient, or the government who tries to regulate both?
---Anthony on 6/2/07


Dr. K. is a serial killer. According to the Bible, he should be put to death.
---Jerry on 6/2/07


As a Christian, I would say it is God's decision. However, have you ever watched a loved one die by inches? My husband had colon cancer. Soon enough, you will be praying for the Lord to take him..Having put to sleep my favorite cat (cancer), I can't help wonder, what is the difference when a human has NO more hope. Think about it..Perhaps a group of doctors could make a decision if requested. Of course, that would hurt alot of pocket books, including the doctors,drug companies and hospitals..
---Sarah on 6/1/07


We shouldn't be putting people to sleep. That's God's business. Dr. K. looks wild and crazy, since he's on the loose.
Sue, would you like Dr. K. to put one of your family members down?
---Raine on 6/1/07


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Putting pets "to sleep" is just a kind way of saying killing them. The Bible says Thou shall not kill. That applies to humans.
---betty8468 on 6/1/07


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