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Was Hitler Born Innocent

If all babies are born innocent does this include such people as Esau, Hitler & The Anti-Christ?

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 ---Ryan_Z on 6/9/07
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Biblically speaking we are all born in sin and must be bought because we sold ourselves into Satins bondage. Jesus paid the price when he puchased us with is blood and paid the debt in full. There are two will for our life Gods will and Satins will. If we accept Christ then God will align our life with his will, if not we will remain in our sins and fullfill Satins goals. Such was the Case with Hamen, Hitler, and Nero.
---Marcia on 7/10/07


The Anti-Christ is different however, because Satin tries to duplicate everything God does. The Anti-Christ is part of Satins trinty and will supposedly be born of a nun and never bear children-mocking the virgin birth.
---Marcia on 7/10/07


He was innocent as a kid. If he would have died as a kid, he would have been accepted by a loving compassionate God. He chose his path. He grew and with age he became accountable. He will be judged as he judged others. No doubt there still might be some kind of mercy after he realizes the true depth of his sin. He will think he deserves nothing, but Im sure he will be grateful for even hell if thats what he gets.
---Matt_Splatt on 7/9/07


ashley, we become children of the Father, brothers and sisters, siblings to the Christ, dependent on the Father, just as children are dependent on their father. Flesh is sinful and humans are conceived and born wrapped in flesh, this is what makes them sinful. Now that I've answered your question will you answer mine: What scriptures in the bible declare human babies innocent?
---Ryan_Z on 6/24/07


Ashley

You demand scripture from others but you yet will not give me a scriptural answer to my question. I believe that its getting close to the tenth time I have asked you this question. Can you give me scripture that states that we are not sin, or sinful flesh in need of a saviour, just because in infantsy, we have never sinned? God bless.
---Billy on 6/24/07




ashley, Christ is, and will always be, the only innocent ever born. To say any human has that same uniqueness denies His divinity and seovereign purpose. So you see to say any human is innocent makes them equal wieth Christ, to elevate anything to the level of The Only Begotten Son of God is blasphemous.
---Ryan_Z on 6/24/07


Ryan: it is not blasphemy to say little children are innocent at birth. that is a fact. people like you are blasphemous when you deny that fact from scripture and spread heresy to all those who will listen to you. You cannot dispute scripture that says many times children are innocent, you are to become innocent through the atonement of Christ by repenting when you do something wrong. what sin did babies commit. I am still waiting for your answer from scripture.
---ashley on 6/24/07


ashley, if children are born innocent then they are human souls that do not need a Messiah. I am not sure you have thought through your position thuroughly. What you are suggesting is every human soul is conceived and born as the Christ, that is blasphemy. Only one has been conceived and born in innocence, the Lord Christ Jesus. To equate human souls, at any stage in their life, to the glory of the Lord is a denial of His Messiahship!!
---Ryan_Z on 6/23/07


Ashley

You said, Jesus said except a person becomes as a little child in innocence before him, he cannot enter the kingdom of God.

Ashley, your adding to Gods word. Jesus didnt say that becoming a little child is being innocent. Its the attribute of faith that a child has, that God wants us to have. Its also that children will believe what you tell them, not that they have faith in God. Its the attribute of faith to believe what you tell them that God wants us to have. God bless
---Billy on 6/23/07


So what happens to a child not guided by the parents knowing right from wrong? Feral children, also known as wild children, are children who've grown up with minimal or no human contact. They don't know how to read (the Bible), they will "steal" food to eat not knowing it's wrong to steal. They will not know obedience because they grew up not knowing God or parents. Are they born innocent or are they born wild?
---Steveng on 6/23/07




I am on the side of truth. children are born innocent. It's through temptation, whether it comes from their parents, family, peers or friends that causes sin. Jesus said except a person becomes as a little child in innocence before him, he cannot enter the kingdom of God. everyone here says they are born again. Yeah right. born again means living in harmony with Jesus like a new born baby, who lives in innocence, not openly mocking him and indulging in every evil the world offers.
---ashley on 6/23/07


(1) Ashley

This was your quote on 06/12/07, If your argument is guilty by association, you are barking up a dead tree. NO such animal. You say even though you believe in the bible now, you are guilty of sins your ancestors commited a thousand years ago. if they murdered someone or sinned against the holy ghost you are condemned before you are born and nothing you do can stop it.

But now this is what you are saying.
---Billy on 6/22/07


(2) Ashley

Quote, if their parents are righteous, they will be righteous, if their parents are evil, the child will follow the voice of satan and not God.

So Ashley, which side of the fence are you going to stand on? Your recent quote is saying that the child is guilty to do evil because of its association to the evil parent. You say this as if the child is condemned before its ever born, and that theres nothing the child can do to stop it.
---Billy on 6/22/07


(3) Ashley

So is there "NO such animal", as you said 11 days ago, or have you changed your view on the subject? God bless.
---Billy on 6/22/07


ashley, there are no scriptures that state humans are conceived or born innocent. It is not that it is useless to post them, the truth is they don't exist.
---Ryan_Z on 6/22/07


Ashley

The reason you see it as useless to quote scripture is because you dont know of a scripture that will answer the question that ive asked you. This is your way out to stand on your unscriptural beliefs. Ill pray for you sister. God bless
---Billy on 6/22/07


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No one is born innocent. Through one man, sin entered... and "For all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God", Rom. 3:23. Scripture is pretty clear that we are ALL innately corrupt and depraved.
---daphn8897 on 6/22/07


its useless quoting scriptures because everyone ignores them anyways. all children are born innocent. it is what they are born into that influences how they will live. if their parents are righteous, they will be righteous, if their parents are evil, the child will follow the voice of satan and not God. they will choose darkness over light. it is ironic that people who are evil can turn someone who is good into an evil person. the prisons are full of christians gone bad and have become evil.
---ashley on 6/22/07


There is no "If", because not all babies are born innocent.
---Eloy on 6/22/07


Rick

You dont know how close to the truth you are. The last seven words of your post was a mouth full of truth that most would shun from. I would beg to differ on us being innocent as children "Rom 3:10", but dont let my disagreement with you on this part stop you from seeking the truth. God bless.
---Billy on 6/21/07


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#1 Mark

My approach shouldnt matter, only what the scriptures have to say. Though I believe in Universal salvation, this isnt the approach im aiming for. Im trying to get you to see what so many others dont want to agnolage, and that is that babies that havent matured in Christ will not be in heaven, nor will they be in the first resurrection.
---Billy on 6/21/07


#2 Mark

Babies that are living through the Millennium proves this fact. There resurrection will be the second resurrection, which is cast into the lake of fire. Would you agree with what scripture says on this fact, or do you take the views of men over God? God bless.
---Billy on 6/21/07


Of course he was, however, just as it happened with Adam and Eve, he came to know the difference between right and wrong. As with all mankind, that knowledge removes our innocence and reveals what we really are --sinners.
---Rick on 6/21/07


#5. Billy: Since you hold to the believe that everyone will be saved, I sure don't know which approach you are taking since none of the one's there say anything about Universal salvation. If you take the futurist approach as many do, I might be able to answer you cause I myself take that view.
---mark on 6/21/07


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Mark B

I dont know Mark. How will the people who are not a part of the church of Ephesus be included in this church?
---Billy on 6/18/07


Hey billy, while i was reading over the scripture verses in context, i noticed the verses in chpt 2 were written to the church of ephesus...does this not include the people who are not a part of the church of ephasis (i dunno how we really know)

Just want to know what you say to that
---mark_B. on 6/17/07


1/ Mark

When Jesus returns to gather his elect in the first resurrection, this will be the beginning of the millennial reign where Christ and his elect will rule the nations with a rod of iron. Rev 2:26 And he that overcometh, and keepeth my works unto the end, to him will I give power over the nations: [27] And he shall rule them with a rod of iron; as the vessels of a potter shall they be broken to shivers: even as I received of my Father.
---Billy on 6/17/07


2/ Mark

Rev 19:15 And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.

These scriptures show that Christ and his elect will rule the nations with a rod of iron. After the first resurrection, only the elect will have immortality to live through the ages to reign with Christ, so that his kingdom will be set up on this earth to rule the nations.
---Billy on 6/17/07


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3/ Mark

The nations and the rest of humanity will continue to live for the next thousand years. Through this thousand years, life will continue to go on, babies will be born through this time of rulership by Christ and his elect. People will be born, and people will die. Also satan will have been confined to the pit at the beginning of this thousand year reign.

Rev 20:1 And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit
---Billy on 6/17/07


4/ Mark

and a great chain in his hand. [2] And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years, [3] And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.

So Mark, this shows that people and nations will be living on this earth, going about
---Billy on 6/17/07


5/ Mark

there daily affairs while Christ and his elect will be ruling them with a rod of iron. There will be babies born through this thousand year period, all the way to the conclusion of this time. If babies were not born through the millennium, being that mans life span isnt a thousand years, humanity will have died off the face of the planet and there would be no one here for the next nine hundred years for Christ to rule over. Also, no one through this time will be saved
---Billy on 6/17/07


6/ Mark

to have the opportunity to have age-abiding life, because the first resurrection will have past. The only other alternative is the second resurrection which will be cast into the lake of fire. So at the end of the thousand years, satan is loosed from the pit to go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth,

Rev 20:7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,
---Billy on 6/17/07


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7/ Mark

[8] And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.

Can you guess what happens next?

Rev 20:9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city [Christ and his elect]: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.
---Billy on 6/17/07


8/ Mark

This is when God will have ended all flesh as we know it. The number of whom is as the sand of the sea will consist of women, and children, men and women of all ages, infints and women that are pregnant, and including the elderly. God will not spare a one, just as he did with Sodom and Gomorrah. So Mark, tell me what resurrection will these babies be in and what is the location of there final judgement? Biblical answers only. God bless
---Billy on 6/17/07


Mark

When I get home this afternoon, ill start on a post to explane what it is that your not understanding about my question. God bless brother
---Billy on 6/17/07


Billy, let me try to understand you for a minute on your questions to me. You say in part 3, "when babies are been born at this time, and God brings an end to all flesh" does not make sense at all. In your words, how can babies be born when God does away with all flesh? Now, I am not agreeing or disagreeing on anything, just that you are confused on the question, or you mean something I just don't understand.
---mark on 6/17/07


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Ashley

I forgot to ask you for the third time, can you give me scripture that states that we are not sin, or sinful flesh in need of a saviour, just because in infantsy, we have never sinned? If you can give me scripture to prove this point, I will surely consider your view. God bless
---Billy on 6/16/07


#1 Mark

Thank you for your kind words of my sincerity. Yes im not speaking or believeing what I see as truth, for no other reasons except out of sincerity. I believe that you also fall in the category of sincerity as well. I dont doubt for a minute that you are not sincere with what you believe, and you are correct that being sincere and kind doesnt make a person right. Im glad to know that we are sincere about what were doing here and not just trying to deceive people.
---Billy on 6/16/07


#2 Mark

Ive looked back to see if I had even remotely steared into the subject of Universalism, and I dont see where I have. Evidently Mark B hasnt seen what ive posted on other blogs, so I believe that he was only acting on what he had been reading on this blog, so dont be to hard on him. OK, so getting back to the subject. As I was trying to stay on the subject of the destination of those that havnt matured to sonship, including infants,
---Billy on 6/16/07


#3 Mark

you were the first to bring Universalism into the picture, not me. This is why when you said "Billy, your problem is not the babies. Your problem is that all the wicked will be saved." Then I said that my problem wasnt with babies nor God saving all of his creation, but what do the scriptures say concerning the topic at hand. So if you could, can you answer the question I had asked. Ill copy and past it again.
---Billy on 6/16/07


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#4 Mark

After the first resurrection has taken place, and the Millennial Reign of Christ begins, as babies are being born through the Millennium which will be ruled by a rod of iron by Christ and his elect, what resurrection will these take part in seeing that the first resurrection has past? Lets not forget that at the conclusion of the Millennium when satan is loosed from the pit, there will still be babies being born at this time when God brings an end to all flesh.
---Billy on 6/16/07


#5 Mark

So Mark, tell me what resurrection will these babies be in and what is the location of there final judgement? Biblical answers only. God bless
---Billy on 6/16/07


Mark B, I have heard Billy many times speak before. I have heard that he believes in Universal Salvation. That is not one of the essentials of the Christian faith. It does not pertain to the Christian. Of course many can make a case for many things when Scripture is taken out of context. I see that all the time when someone looks for that reason only and not to find the truth. I do not have to ask him any questions. I know he is sincere on what he speaks,
---mark on 6/16/07


#2. Mark B. But been sincere and kind does not make a person right. It takes for God to bring light to Scripture in order to understand it. It would be a waste of time to go on discussing Universal salvation for that is not the topic here. I stay away from those subjects since they don't give light to God's word. Now some like to discuss Universal salvation, some like to discuss denominations, for me I rather study and discuss doctrines. There is no Universal doctrine in Scripture.
---mark on 6/16/07


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1/ Ashley, Ashley, Ashley.

Lets not put words in peoples mouth! No one has said that babies are evil. But Rom 3:19 does say that all are under the law and that all the world is guilty before God. I believe this would include babies. Being born in this flesh places us under the law "Psa 51:5, Gal 4:4".
---Billy on 6/16/07


2/ Ashley

Being made of a woman places us under the law, which makes us all guilty of being sin. Only the righteousness of God which is by the faith of Jesus Christ can save us. If a child hasnt had the chance to grow in the faith and righteousness of Christ, it misses the mark. God bless
---Billy on 6/16/07


Now the truth is exposed. many here say babies are born evil and are condemned, but then in their next breath they say everyone has a sinful nature. that is a BIG difference. yes everyone can be tempted during their life. as people grow and learn the difference between good and evil, then satan starts tempting us. Making evil appear to be good, so many fall. Yes, Jesus was the only one who never gave into temptation. I am happy to see everyone finally sees the light. Its about time.
---ashley on 6/15/07


Actually mark, it is quite a bad idea to put things into peoples mouths and assume that you are correct...i have heard Billy say plenty times that All saved God to heaven, all not saved Get punished but then like kinda disappear eh, no eternal punishment, Is this right billy?? So yea mark try to ask more questions then say that you are correct about that person
---mark_B. on 6/15/07


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#1 Mark

Of course my problem isnt with babies nor weither God will save all of his creation, but where the problem is, is what do the scriptures say, and who will stand for the truth of the Word of God. All though I do believe that I could find more than one passage of scripture that proves that God will save us all, I will just stick to the issue at hand.
---Billy on 6/15/07


#2 Mark

So could you answer me a question? After the first resurrection has taken place, and the Millennial Reign of Christ begins, as babies are being born through the Millennium which will be ruled by a rod of iron by Christ and his elect, what resurrection will these take part in seeing that the first resurrection has past?
---Billy on 6/15/07


#3 Mark

Lets not forget that at the conclusion of the Millennium when satan is loosed from the pit, there will still be babies being born at this time when God brings an end to all flesh. So Mark, tell me what resurrection will these babies be in and what is the location of there final judgement? Biblical answers only. God bless
---Billy on 6/15/07


Billy, your problem is not the babies. Your problem is that all the wicked will be saved. That is so far from the truth. The subject of the babies is not even your concern, yours is eternal salvation for everyone which is not from Scripture. You might find one passage that seems to imply that, but you will have the whole of Scripture that says, the wicked go to Hell. One or two people might agree with you, but there is always someone who disagrees with Scripture and put their spin on the Bible.
---mark on 6/15/07


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(1) Earl

You are correct that all personalities begin their ascention as human "physical terrestrial" beings that pergress to a spiritual level "1Cor 15:46". Being born sin isnt because of anything that the individual has done, nor what the parents have done, and is common to everyone, including babies "Rom 8:20". Being born sin will migrate to a sin if given enough time, because this is our nature. Only Jesus had the strength to overcome this nature.
---Billy on 6/14/07


(2) Earl

You said, We do not choose our birth material.1/3 of heaven was sinful.How were they born? Being sin and committing sin is two different things. We are at a disadvantage because we dont have to sin to miss the mark. Scripture proves this point by Jesus becoming flesh "sin" 2Cor 5:21, but yet he didnt sin. Angels commiting sin just proves that we dont have to be sin to commit sin. But in our case, we are born in need of a saviour. God bless
---Billy on 6/14/07


greetings.billy.If one is to call a baby sin-full then did you sin at birth or your parents?how does being born migrate to a sin?Born as a terrestrial is natural.All personalities begin their ascention as human.Imperfection is normal.The transformation from physical to spiritual is the common method of life ascention.Our beginnings are natural, normal and common to all.We do not choose our birth material.1/3 of heaven was sinful.How were they born?
---earl on 6/14/07


#1 Mark

Thats just it. If babies have done nothing concerning works, then how can they be known by there fruits, because a tree is know by its fruits, by its works. A baby has not had its spiritual maturing process, so how can an infant stand with Christ "in the first resurrection" to judge the world, if it hasnt been trained, " or judged in this life", to do the job?
---Billy on 6/14/07


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#2 Mark

If and infant hasnt had the opportunity to be judged in this life bacause of an early death, he must be judged in the latter resurrection. God bless.
---Billy on 6/14/07


ryanz: "God formed man from the dust of the earth and man became a living soul"

Souls consist of formed dust and breath. They are either alive or dead.

They are not disembodied Spirits housed inside of a body. Your last quote left the impression of just the opposite. Maybe I misread your comment.
---TS on 6/14/07


1/ Earl

According to your post, you seem to claim that at birth, we all stood toe to toe with Christ, because we hadnt sinned at birth. When in fact, Christ was standing toe to toe with us. Heb 2: 16 For verily he took not on him the nature of angels; but he took on him the seed of Abraham. [17] Wherefore in all things it behoved him to be made like unto his brethren, that he might be a merciful and faithful high priest
---Billy on 6/13/07


2/ Earl

in things pertaining to God, to make reconciliation for the sins of the people. But you miss my point as well, I wasnt saying that because Jesus hung out with the sinners that this made him a sinner. We are all sin at birth because of our association with corruptible sinful flesh. Jesus was made to be sin for us. 2Cor 5:21 For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.
---Billy on 6/13/07


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3/ Earl

Even Jesus was cursed with corruptible sinful flesh, but yet he never sinned. Jesus was guilty because he was made under the law. Rom 3:19, Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God. Gal 4:4-5, But when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son,
---Billy on 6/13/07


4/ Earl

made of a woman, made under the law, [5] To redeem them that were under the law, that we might receive the adoption of sons. So yes, Jesus did partake of our fallen nature, but the second time, he will appear without sin. "Heb 9:28" So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation.
---Billy on 6/13/07


5/ Earl

No matter how you cut it, even Jesus "and babies" are guilty, and will have to go through the maturing process and shed this corruptible sinful flesh to enter his kingdom, for flesh and blood cannot enter Gods kingdom. Earl, if a baby hasnt sinned, he is still guilty because of being sinful flesh, guilty by association, God bless.
---Billy on 6/13/07


AMEN brother Ryan! Youve tought me something as well. God bless brother
---Billy on 6/13/07


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(1) Ashley

I see that you had asked a question 10 times before I stepped up to the plate to try to give you an answer, and ive asked you a question "once" and you didnt give me an answer. So ill ask a second time. Can you give me scripture that states that we are not sin, or sinful flesh in need of a saviour, just because in infantsy, we have never sinned. It shouldnt be a hard question to answer.
---Billy on 6/13/07


(2) Ashley

You said, You sin when you knowingly disobey a commandment of God. There are no ifs ands or buts about that. It cannot be twisted, distorted or denied. Babies have neither the knowledge, will or means to disobey a commandment of God until they reach an age where they are taught good from evil.

OK, so would this be the same for adults as well? Can an adult that doesnt know
---Billy on 6/13/07


(3) Ashley

right from wrong be held accountable for there lack of knowledge to do Gods will? There are also parents that dont do a good job at teaching ther children right from wrong. The scripture I used to address Rebecca has still been unanswered. Look at "Luke 12:47-48", [47] And that servant, which knew his lord's will, and prepared not himself, neither did according to his will,
---Billy on 6/13/07


(4) Ashley

shall be beaten with many stripes. [48] But he that knew not, and did commit things worthy of stripes, shall be beaten with few stripes. For unto whomsoever much is given, of him shall be much required: and to whom men have committed much, of him they will ask the more.

Ashley, according to you, this latter servant has done nothing wrong because he didnt have the knowledge to do the right thing.
---Billy on 6/13/07


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(5) Ashley

According to you, he had done nothing worthy of stripes because he didnt know. But there are those that will be destroyed for lack of knowledge "Hos 4:6". So try to answer my question, and comment on "Luk 12:47-48". God bless.
---Billy on 6/13/07


Billy: I say again you are barking up a dead tree if you really believe what you said. Babies have sin because of those around them. Give me a break. You sin when you knowingly disobey a commandment of God. There are no ifs ands or buts about that. It cannot be twisted, distorted or denied. Babies have neither the knowledge, will or means to disobey a commandment of God until they reach an age where they are taught good from evil. You can deny that all you want, but you are the one in error, no one else.
---ashley on 6/13/07


#1 ashley, ever wonder why the transgression of Adam and Eve is never referred to as sin in the bible? The word of God always labels it a "Transgression". I always found that interesting. We are not born into sinful flesh becasue of the sin of our ancestors, namely Adam & Eve. We do, however, inherit the sinful flesh from their TRANSGRESSION.
---Ryan_Z on 6/13/07


#2 ashley, The bible does not read, "...through one man's sin, sin entered the world..." it says, "...through one man sin entered the world...". It is the flesh that is corrupted and houses the corruptable soul. So we are conceived and housed in corruption because of the transgression of Adam.
---Ryan_Z on 6/13/07


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Ryanz: Sure, Jesus told the thief "surely you will be with ME in paradise"
Jesus also said that "unless a man is born of water and of the Spirit He can not enter into the Kingdom" Did He lie in letting the thief enter?
The Thief was not Baptized with water so Jesus had to do it for him. Jesus certainly did not need the baptism of Water for the Remission of His own Sins since He was sinless. He did it for the Thief and all like him
Spiritual things are spiritually discerned
---TS on 6/13/07


#1 Ashley

Im not barking up a dead tree, and no I will not quickly change my tune. I never said that we were sin because we are guilty of sins our ancestors committed. I said that being associated with corruptible flesh is what makes us sinners, not anything that our parents had done, nor what we have done. We are sinners at birth and nothing can change that.
---Billy on 6/13/07


#2 Ashley

So please answer my question, can you give me scripture that states that we are not sinners, or sinful flesh in need of a saviour, just because in infantsy, we have never sinned. If you find scripture to answer that question, I will change my tune. God bless
---Billy on 6/13/07


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