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Rapture Second Coming

Is the rapture the second comming of Christ?

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 ---cynth9664 on 7/14/07
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Jesus leaves on a cloud: Acts 1:9-11,
Jesus comes to reap the harvest: Rev 14:14-16 just prior to the vials of wrath, while His second Cominng is after the vials of wrath when He rides a White Horse and defeats the armies at Armegeddon
---Larry on 10/29/07


bb45: "they are already in heaven and return with him at the second coming." Sorry, but I can't seem to find this doctrine in the Bible. Would you kindly provide the scripture that substantiates it? My Bible only mentions "all the angels" returning with Christ (Mat 25:31).
---jerry6593 on 10/29/07


dan: What are you talking about? And please don't use all caps.
---jerry6593 on 10/29/07


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---dan on 10/28/07


For those of you who believe in the pretrib rapture.

You will be deceived. When the mark of the beast is handed out, you will not believe it's the mark mentioned in Revelation because you will think that you were have been taken up before that time. Open your eyes to what Satan is doing to Christians today.
---Steveng on 10/27/07




For those of you who believe in the pretrib rapture. Part II

There are only two resurrections: one when Jesus returns and the dead in Christ shall rise and the living in Christ is caught up with them. blessed are those who rise in the first resurrection.

The second resurrection is at the end of the thousand year rein of Christ where all the other dead in all of history will rise and be judged from the Book of Life.
---Steveng on 10/27/07


BB45:

Um...not biblical....at all.

Show me scripture that shows the Rapture as a different event than His Second Coming.
---Adam on 10/27/07


Matt 25 (ten virgins)out of time same as seventh trumpet (be no more time) many other comparisons 1 Thess 4:16, Rev 14, Rev 22:12
---Larry on 10/27/07


Matthew 25(ten virgins), 1 cor 15:50-52, 1 Thess 4:16, Rev. 10 (7th trumpet), Rev 14, Rev 22:12 all seem to be telling us the rapture precedes the vials of wrath, similarities tie together
---Larry on 10/27/07


Cynth, what some refer to as the Rapture is the Second coming of Our Lord, Jesus Christ. There will not be another. On the last day, we shall rise up to meet the Lord in the air, the dead shall rise first.

Some confusion arises over Matthew 24, but this is not the rapture, the ones left behind are the survivors of the Fall of Jerusalem. Those taken are the ones who died. Luke repeats these passages in Luke 17:34-36, but also adds verse 37 which explains where the "taken" go.
---lorra8574 on 10/26/07




Rature appears to be at 7th trumpet just before vials of wrath. compare Matt 25:1-10, 1 Cor 15:50-52, 1 Thess 4:16, Rev 10, Rev 14, Rev 22:12 many likenesses
---Larry on 10/26/07


Rature appears to be at 7th trumpet just before vials of wrath. compare Matt 25:1-10, 1 Cor 15:50-52, 1 Thess 4:16, Rev 10, Rev 14, Rev 22:12 many likenesses
---Larry on 10/26/07


In essence, it is the same. It is the second coming to believers, but not to the Earth. That takes place at the end of the Trib. as stated in the previous post. There is a secret second coming for the Church known as the Rapture, and a Literal second coming when he comes back to the Earth and establishes his Kingdom that shall never be destroyed.
---Tommy on 10/26/07


I agree with---BB45's statement about the Per-tribulation rapture.
---Mima on 10/26/07


The rapture and second coming are clearly two separate events. The saints are taken up to meet Jesus at the rapture: they are already in heaven and return with him at the second coming. I don't see how anyone can fail to see the difference. If the rapture is at the end of the tribulation then there can be no Christians left to occupy the earth during the millenium. This is just one of the things that rule out a post-tribulation rapture. There are many other differences that indicate a pre -trib rapture.
---BB45 on 10/26/07


cynth9664, Yes, the Rapture is the 2nd coming of Christ. Armageddon(the conclusion of the 7-year Tribulation Period) is His 3rd Coming. Jesus will bring His saints with Him on Heavenly horses to end that 7-year period with great Vengeance on the wicked (Jude 1:14-21), make sure you will be in that number... with Christ on those horses, that is. God Bless!
---Mrs._Morgan on 7/27/07


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They will scoffingly say, where is the promise of His coming? Till our Lord shall have come they will not themselves believe that He will come, They will laugh at the very mention of His second coming. These seducers, because they wish He never nay therefore do all that in them lies to cheat themselves and others into a persuasion that He never will come. They will laugh at that very promise. Where is the promise, say they, of His coming?>>> Good day.++
---catherine on 7/25/07


Interesting reading on this subject besides the gospels, IThess.4:13-14, ICor.15:35-58 are in IIThess.2:1-5,6-12,13-17, Titus 2:1-(*13)15.

The last mention of the church 'birthed' on The Day Of Pentecost in Acts 2:1-36,37-47 is found in Rev.3:22, BEFORE the indescribable 'horrors' on earth begins.

In Rev.13:9, the recorded phrase "let those who have an ear to hear [(what the spirit is saying to the church)"is written again with no mention of that same church]. Something of note!
---bob_[Elishama]_6749 on 7/21/07


Yes, absolutely, if you mean are they concurrent. There is only one "caught up" mentioned in the Bible (1 Th 4:13-17), and that is in conjunction with the coming of the "Lord himself" (v. 16) and the resurrection of the dead in Christ. The modern theory of a separate, secret rapture is a non-biblical myth - a second chance false hope.
---jerry6593 on 7/21/07


The Rapture is to take the saved up in the air..when Christ redeems us from earth and the 2nd coming is When He returns to take all believers home...
---jana on 7/21/07


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The rapture takes place before the second coming of Christ. Some will be raptured but this era would not yet be over and the gospel would still be needed and widely accepted during the tribulation before Christ comes. But grace would be less as far as earthly security is concerned, because the more evil man becomes the more they obstruct the intervention of grace. God would take away an already justified group so they won't have to suffer through that inevitable time. See Rev 3:10 (the rapture).
---OK on 7/20/07


The rapture is the rapture, the second coming is the second coming. Those are 2 seperate things just like a death and burrial. I think we could all agree that no matter when or how it happens we are certainly told to be ready, and live like it is could happen today.
---john on 7/20/07


Paul says Jesus will resurrect us "at the last trumpet" > in 1 Corinthians 15:52. The last trumpet Jesus mentions is in Matthew 24:31, coming "immediately

after the tribulation

of those days" (verse 29), and this seems to be just before the millennial kingdom.

AND the last trumpet of Revelation (11:15) is the SEVENTH > with which comes reference to our Lord and His Christ reigning...also a possible millennial reference. I think we have a match, here, Joseph.
---Bill_bila5659 on 7/20/07


So, the Rapture is clearly AFTER the trib., if Paul by "last trumpet" means the last historical trumpet mentioned in the Bible.

God is able to take care of us through anything, even during His wrath judgements > "For God did not appoint us to wrath, but to obtain salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ," (1 Thessalonians 5:9) He WILL be in control of Himself...NOT like an alcoholic father who smacks his good kids along with the naughty ones > Psalm 91:7-13.
---Bill_bila5659 on 7/20/07


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No! They're completely different! The Great Catching Away or 'Rapture' of I Thess.4:13-18 [what happens], & I Cor.15:13-50, 51-58 [how it happens].

The second coming is mentioned in Matt.24:1->, other gospels, prophetic writings, Rev.19:11-16, Jude 14. If every eye see's The Risen Christ return, they'll be in the 'second' ressurection & most likely are the souls under the alter in heaven crying "how long Lord, how long"?
---bob[Echad]_6749 on 7/20/07


Pt.3 Disciples are children of the day, not to be taken in the night "The days will come, when you shall desire to see 'one' of the days of the Son of man, and you shall not see it. If any man shall say unto you, behold He [the Messiah] is in the 'desert' (empty space), go not forth: behold He is in the 'secret chamber' (as a distributor of a private transition) believe it not. For as the lightning comes out of the east, and shines even unto west: so shall also the coming of the Son of man be."
---joseph on 7/20/07


Pt.2 "Take heed that no man deceive you. For many shall come in my name saying, I am christ (anointed), and shall deceive many. The deception shall bring great tribulation (anguish), such as have never been since the beginning of the world unto this time, no, nor ever will be again. And except those days be shortened, there shall be no flesh (those subject to be led by their external perceptions) saved: But for the 'elects' sake those days shall be shortened. Cont. Pt.3
---joseph on 7/20/07


Jesus only returns once more, at the seventh trump, to execute the wrath of God & establish His kingdom on earth. "Let no man deceive you by any means: For that day [The second advent of Jesus] shall not come except there be a falling away [defection from the truth concerning His coming] first and that man of sin is revealed, the son of perdition" This reveal initiates the 'Great Tribulation' intense pressure to accept The deceiver as The Christ. Cont. Pt.2
---joseph on 7/20/07


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Pastor_Herb: You give pastoring and Christianity a bad name. This is a frivolous debate that shouldn't be discussed. Pastors should discuss the Kingdom of God and how to get there. Stop creating debates and only do the two commandments Jesus of the NT and God of the OT spoke of - to love your God... and to love your neighbor. Christians are only to be aware of the things to come, not debate over it. God protects those who pray that we are worthy of His protection during the tribulation.
---Steveng on 7/19/07


Bill, exactly. Jesus spoke clearly about baptism, repentence, his birth, his miracles, his crucifiction, his resurrection and many other things to increase our faith in him. you would think that something as important as our eternal salvation would be defined clearly too. He did that when he spoke of the first and second resurrections. We are either worthy of the first or second. it is man that invents raptures and corrupts what Jesus taught us and that is the problem. people are gullible.
---Lori on 7/19/07


Well...for a while I heard only the pre-trib belief. And wherever I read a scripture about Jesus coming back, I ASSUMED this would be before the trib. But then I checked to see if any of these scriptures said WHEN Jesus will return. NO scripture anywhere clearly says Jesus comes back BEFORE the trib. NO scripture says the Rapture is BEFORE. I was told to check to see if the Bible says what people are saying.
---Bill_bila5659 on 7/19/07


There is NO scripture which directly and simply states anything like, "Jesus will come before the trib," or that He will Rapture us BEFORE the trib. If this is a TRUE doctrine AND as important as ones are treating it to be, you'd think the Holy Spirit would have put it in the Bible...in plain words like how He has written various important Bible doctrines.
---Bill_bila5659 on 7/19/07


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Pastor Herb, I could not have said it better myself..I am convinced through the word of God that the rapture and the second comming of Christ are not the same thing.. God bless!
---Cynthia on 7/18/07


Yes, those Bible passages that talk about being taken up, are a reference to the Second Coming of Jesus. There is no indication that this will occur more than once. And Jesus specifically prayed to His Father to ask that His followers NOT be taken out of this world John 17:15.
---lorra8574 on 7/16/07


The rapture and the second comming are not the same thing. First Jesus comes but stops short of placing feet on the earth. He calls his saints who will meet him in the air. Second, there will be 7 yrs of tribulation.Third, Christ returns to earth with his saints to set up 1000 yr kingdom.

Second resurection happens at time of rapture, First has already happened, at Christ's Crucifiction, The third happens at the end of 1000 yr reign.
---Pastor_Herb on 7/16/07


That is what I like about this site. people speak out of both sides of their mouth in contradiction all the time. They say there is a rapture, but then say it happens when Jesus returns for his second coming. If you read the bible, His second coming ushers in the first resurrection of the righteous. How can two events happen at the same time if everyone says they are different. Just say the rapture is another name for the first resurrection and be done with it.
---Lori on 7/15/07


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The Rapture happens at the Second Coming of Christ at the end of the world, as Matthew 13 says in the parable of the wheat and tares, and not seven years (or 1007 years) before the end of the world as pop-evangelical followers of the novelties of Darby and Schofield say.
---Jack on 7/14/07


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