ChristiaNet MallWorld's Largest Christian MallChristian BlogsFree Bible QuizzesFree Ecards and Free Greeting CardsLoans, Debt, Business and Insurance Articles

Salvation Or Baptism First

Does baptism come before salvation or after salvation? If baptism comes before salvation perhaps one could say salvation and baptism are one in the same. What do you think?

Join Our Christian Singles and Take The Salvation Bible Quiz
 ---Mima on 7/16/07
     Helpful Blog Vote (4)

Post a New Blog



All Naysayers:Is that assuming that one is spotless & does not need Washing or Baptism.Jesus was spotless yet he recieved Baptism -he could have entered heaven as is.but yet He Willingly choose Baptism, first, then salvation on the cross.AS adam2.
---Emcee on 7/17/07

There is no polite way to say this, Emcee, your statement is wrong. Jesus Christ wasn't "saved on the cross." He was/is God in the flesh and needed no salvation. He is the Saviour/salvation of the whole world. As "adam2", Jesus was for us what Adam was supposed to be. His completed work on the cross provided the means we needed to be able to come to the Father without being consumed.
---tommy3007 on 9/12/09


Acts:2
38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost..----------------
The scripture does not say be baptized and then repent. Baptism is an act of obedience that FOLLOWS salvation. It is also not necessary to salvation as demonstrated by the thief on the cross who repented, died, and then went straight to paradise.
---obewan on 9/12/09


John 1:33, John the Baptist tells us that Jesus will baptize with the Holy Spirit. John 3, "Born of water and Spirit" is not extremely clear what water means. However, I believe the passage has the Hebrew thought of parallelism, say one thing and say it again in a different way. To claim that the "water" refers to baptism really doesn't make sense in that Jesus had not died and rose again yet. How could John 3 refer to that? In Jesus' day, there were many mikvah's (Jewish baptismals), which were used for Jewish purification. Nicodemus would have been very confused if this meant baptism. Nicodemus brought up the physical birth, Jesus explained, physical birth once, spiritual birth once:). Life in Christ is spiritual.
---Rod on 9/12/09


Markv, brother, Nana is NOT making fun or stating man made traditions.
What he says is biblical. He only showed you the difference between YOUR belief and What Jesus says.
Your truth, in some ways, is false man made traditions. And in this case, it is false.
We are all trying to find the narrow road.
We all sometimse start down the wrong path in some parts. That is why WE all should seek truth in God's word NOT Calvin, Not RCC, But God's word! if it isn't in line with that, we should be questioning it.
---miche3754 on 9/12/09


Nana, the Truth always hurts, I can see how it hurt you to have you resort to remarks to some of us. I don't make fun of you or your religion, I question the motives why they had to change Scripture with their traditions. Your answers now and in the past give evidence of what kind of awakening, if any, people get from your traditions.
---MarkV. on 9/12/09




"If you do perfect law, you receive atonement"
Only anything of justice, mercy and faith avails. "Learn to do well, seek judgment, relieve the oppressed, judge the fatherless, plead for the widow,that is the righteousness our lord spoke of."

"If you fail somehow, the atonement is taken away"
If you must continue to fail, Jesus say, "And if thy right eye offend thee, pluck it out", "And if thy right hand offend thee, cut if off", or would you rather have hell to pay?

"they believe in baptismal regeneration"
I believe in regeneration only.

"over and over"
Paul said, "I die daily".

why do you act like a petty woman/man?
---Nana on 9/12/09


Mark E, thanks for the good work you have done for the gospel. I know some don't understand some things, others only care to argue, some answer to defend their church, but if they are reading Scripture you would think they would understand some of it.
Just take the answers that Nana's gives, If you do perfect law, you receive atonement. If you fail somehow, the atonement is taken away. If you again began to do perfect, you receive the atonement again. On and on. I am surprise they don't have many baptisms, since they believe in baptismal regeneration. They would lose there spiritual life over and over too. That is why they believe in purgatory, and they don't believe in one sacrifice. It is a continuence over and over.
---MarkV. on 9/11/09


Here is what Martin Luther had to say about baptism.
He was asked
Q. What does Baptism give? What good is it?
A. It gives the forgiveness of sins, redeems from death and the Devil, gives eternal salvation to all who believe this, just as God's words and promises declare.

This is what is known as baptismal regeneration!!!!! It is of course a afront to both God and the Bible are in the Bible it is clearly shown that salvation(receiving the Lord Jesus Christ) always comes before baptism.
---mima on 9/10/09


YLBD, Those are great verses that communicate the newness one has in Christ. You might consider that those verses are not talking about a physical baptism. The context of Colossians is a spiritual happening. Everything has to do with what happens spiritually to a saved person's heart. Since you quoted I Peter 3:21, I wasn't sure what you were meaning to convince, that baptism was neccesary or not for salvation. I Peter 3:21 is very clear, he does not mean water baptism, "not the removal of dirt from the flesh." I would like to repeat, Life in Christ is a spiritual happening in the heart, not accomplished by a religious ritual.
---Rod on 9/9/09


Romans 6:4
Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.

Colossians 2:12
Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead.

1 Peter 3:21
The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also NOW SAVE US (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:
---YLBD on 9/9/09




Mark_Eaton,
You say, "But what about atonement?". There is no atonement if man does not die to his sins and is raised a new man with Christ, and that is not even a new recipe, for the same thing is spelled out in Isaiah 1:15-21. to die to sin is to, "Learn to do well, seek judgment, relieve the oppressed, judge the fatherless, plead for the widow,that is the righteousness our lord spoke of." Then will the Lord say, "Come now, and let us reason together, saith the LORD: though your sins be as scarlet, they shall be as white as snow, though they be red like crimson, they shall be as wool.", not before.
---Nana on 9/8/09


Acts:2
38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-==-=-

Acts 8:
35 Then Philip opened his mouth, and began at the same scripture, and preached unto him Jesus.

36 And as they went on their way, they came unto a certain water: and the eunuch said, See, here is water, what doth hinder me to be baptized?

37 And Philip said, If thou believest with all thine heart, thou mayest. And he answered and said, I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God.
---YLBD on 9/5/09


At first I thought this was a poor question. But the more I thought about it the more I like it.

If an unsaved person gets baptized, it doesn't save him or her. If one is saved before getting baptized, one doesn't need to get baptized because he or she is saved.

Is there any record of the disciples getting baptized?
---Rod on 9/5/09


Nana:

So your expectation is to perform the works of the law to perfection, thereby gaining entrance into the kingdom of heaven and being at least the second to do so, Jesus being the first.

But what about atonement?

James 2:10 "For whoever keeps the whole law and yet stumbles in one point, he has become guilty of all."

Unless you have performed the works of the law perfectly from birth, you are guilty of breaking it all.

How will you erase that sin? If it is by accepting grace and mercy from Jesus, then your works of the law did not gain you entrance, His grace did.
---Mark_Eaton on 9/5/09


Mark_Eaton,
Yes, the same one who also said:
Matthew 23:23: "Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone."

The Scribes and the Pharisees DID NOT perform the works of the Law to perfection. They omitted that which builds character and righteousness. The audience in matt 5:20 and us, we ought to follow his advice, only that "the other", do not pertain to us, such as circumcision.
---Nana on 9/5/09


---Mark_Eaton post on this subject is very instructive.
---mima on 9/5/09


Read These Insightful Articles About Bad Credit Loans


Nana:

The same person who said:

Matt 5:20 "For I say to you that unless your righteousness surpasses that of the scribes and Pharisees, you will not enter the kingdom of heaven".

Did not the scribes and the Pharisees perform the works of the Law to perfection? And yet, according to this verse, not unless you surpass their righteousness will you be able to enter the kingdom of heaven.

So then, how do you expect to gain entrance into the kingdom of heaven based upon works of the Law?
---Mark_Eaton on 9/4/09


Mark_Eaton,

Who was it that said:

Mark 10:19: "Thou knowest the commandments, Do not commit adultery, Do not kill, Do not steal, Do not bear false witness, Defraud not, Honour thy father and mother."

It was said in repply to "Good Master, what shall I do that I may inherit eternal life?"


Who was it that said:

Ephesians 6:2: "Honour thy father and mother, (which is the first commandment with promise,)"
---Nana on 9/4/09


You are right Mark,
Without faith/trust in God first, no one would ever,EVER offer up their son as Abraham did. Faith in God MADE him do it.
---duane on 9/3/09


Salvation by faith along 2:
3. The work that James said justified Abraham was his offereing up of Isaac (Gen. 22:9,12) an event that occurred many years after he first exercised faith and was declared righteous before God (Gen.12:1-7, 15:6). Instead Abraham's offering of Isaac demonstrated the genuineness of his faith and the reality of his justification before God. James is emphasizing the vindication before others of a man's claim to salvation. James teaching perfectly complements Paul's writings that salvation is determined by faith along (Eph. 2:8,9) and demonstrated by faithfulness to obey God's will alone (Eph. 2:10).
---MarkV. on 9/3/09


Read These Insightful Articles About Bankruptcy


Nana:

Works of the Law: obedience to the 10 written commandments, the 600 or so additional oral commandments, obedience to the rabbinnical teaching of the 60 books of the Talmud, keeping the feasts, festivals, and holy days, making offerings, sacrifices, tithes, etc.

Why am I listing these?
---Mark_Eaton on 9/3/09


James in 2:21-26 cites 3 illustrations of living faith'
1, Abraham vv 21-25
2. Rhab v. 25
3. the human body and the Spirit v. 26.
The justified by works comments (v. 23) by James does not contradict Paul's clear teaching that Abraham was justified before God by grace alone through faith along (Rom. 3:20, 4:1-25, Gal. 3:6,11). For several reasons, James cannot mean that Abraham was constituted righeous before God because of his own good works because,
1. James already stressed that salvation is a gracious gift (1:17,18).
2. In the middle of this disputed passage (v.23) James quoted Gen. 15:5 which forcefully claims that God credited righteousness to Abarham solely on the basis of his faith.
---MarkV. on 9/3/09


Mark_Eaton,
It is a simple request, unless you have no idea what is meant by "works of the Law".
---Nana on 9/2/09


Nana:

I cannot because it is not true.

I don't follow what you are trying to say to me but I listed those passages because they show that NO one is justified by the works of the Law, not the reverse.

We are only justified by faith in Jesus.
---Mark_Eaton on 9/2/09


Shop For Church Fundraisers


Mark_Eaton,
I challenge you to declare specifically at least 3 of those "works of the Law" Paul was refering to, and which perhaps you imply that Ruben is supporting.
---Nana on 9/1/09


Why didn't you show him v10 "For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them." And he should have show you James 2:24 "Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only."
---Ruben on 9/1/09

Or Rom 3:20 "because by the works of the Law no flesh will be justified in His sight, for through the Law comes the knowledge of sin".

Or Rom. 3:28 "For we maintain that a man is justified by faith apart from works of the Law".
---Mark_Eaton on 9/1/09


---Mark_Eaton once after much discussion with a fellow worker,in which he admitted that the Catholic Church believed in works, I showed him Ephesians 2:8-9. After carefully reading it twice he looked me straight in the eye and I said, "I still believe it is of works". He was a staunch Catholic with four children in the church. And that's the exact words he told me.
---mima on 9/1/09

Why didn't you show him v10 "For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them." And he should have show you James 2:24 "Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only."
---Ruben on 9/1/09


---Mark_Eaton once after much discussion with a fellow worker,in which he admitted that the Catholic Church believed in works, I showed him Ephesians 2:8-9. After carefully reading it twice he looked me straight in the eye and I said, "I still believe it is of works". He was a staunch Catholic with four children in the church. And that's the exact words he told me.
---mima on 9/1/09


Read These Insightful Articles About Cash Advance


Lawrence:

I am sorry but I must STRONGLY disagree with your statement about "no works salvation".

If you believe in Jesus, it is a "no works" salvation.

Eph 2:8-9 "For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God, not as a result of works, so that no one may boast"

There is NO work that can be done to merit salvation except to accept the gift that God has given to us. That is why it is called grace, it is unmerited favor given by God to us, who do not deserve it.

What we deserve for our "works" is damnation, separation from a Holy God, and a devil's hell.
---Mark_Eaton on 9/1/09


mima
The trin-people are doing their best to get into heaven some other means than through the door. The same is as a theif & a robber, trin-ministers teaching easy believism, repeat aft me, no works salvation, sinners prayer & the such like, these Are Man-made salvation teachings with No scriptural basis.
Jesus Christ Is The Door. When He said in Mark 16 v 16. 1st Peter 3 v 21. God's One & Only Salvation Plan Is according to Acts 2 v's 37-41 which Fulfills Matt. 28 v's 19-20.
Apostle Peter delivered this to the Jewish people first on the day of Pentecost. Apostle Paul brought this Very Same to us gentiles. The trinity denies this.
---Lawrence on 8/31/09


OK Lawrence ... perhaps if I reword my question:

"What happens to the person who believes, and has full faith and accepts Jesus as his saviour, but, having come to that belief,faith anhd acceptance, dies before having the opportunity to be baptised?"

Is he still lost, because the physical baptism has not taken place?
---alan8566_of_uk on 8/31/09


--- Lawrence, you ever hear of a pregnant woman's water breaking? Inside of our mothers we were all once in a sack of water.
Jesus also said to Nicodemus,John 3:6"That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit." And that is what is referred to here as being born of water.
Since John 4:2 says," (Though Jesus himself baptized not, but his disciples,)" you're believe that baptism is absolutely necessary to salvation seems to go against the practices of Jesus Christ(who Scripture says baptized not).
---mima on 8/31/09


Read These Insightful Articles About Credit Counseling


alan
Believing is only a part. A person that just believed & then passes away, that person Is lost. The one theif on the cross believed & will be with Jesus (that was still under the law times. Salvation under Grace wasn't fulfilled aft Jesus died then ressuerected. Aft His ressurection Salvation started under the grace period). Jesus told Nichodemas that you must be born again of water & spirit. With out it, people Are lost. Trin-ministers teaching this easy beleivism, no works salvation, the sinners pryaer & the such like Is Man-made teachings with No scriptural basis & came from here, 2nd Cor. 11 v's 14-15.
---Lawrence on 8/31/09


The Gospel of Christ IS the power of God unto salvation. Water wont save you. Its Jesus Christ. In HIM is our salvation.
Do you have faith IN HIM or water?
Our messiah needs no help, its finished...
---duane on 8/30/09


Lawrence - You are MISQUOTING Jesus. He said those who believe (Salvation FIRST), and then are baptized (this is AFTER) will be saved. He did NOT say (as you say) that if they believe/baptized they are saved. If you get baptized and think that is salvation, you are DECEIVED and are NOT really saved. Jesus makes a clear DISTINTION between the two - Salvation is FIRST, than baptism - they are NOT one in the same.
---Leslie on 8/29/09


If people will carefuly study scripture they will learn there is a difference regarding the Gospel of the Kingdom, and the Gospel Of Christ, which is part of the Mystery of the Gospel.

The Kingdom Gospel was given to the Jews and required Baptism. Nowhere in the Mystery of the Gospel will you find baptism is required.
---Rob on 8/29/09


Read These Insightful Articles About Debt Relief


Lawrence ... the problem with what you say is:

"What happens to the person who believes but, having come to that belief, dies before having the opportunity to be baptised?"
---alan8566_of_uk on 8/29/09


This has Nothing to do with red-hair.
Again, some are trying to put the cart before the horse. Without some ones carnal philosophy & theology ideas, find me scripture where it does say your saved first & then your baptized.
Mark 16 v 16, he that believeth & is baptized shall be saved.
Carnal Man's ideas saying, he that is saved & believeth then you shall be baptized.
---Lawrence on 8/28/09


Lawrence you wrote this," Mark 16 v 16, he that believeth & is baptized shall be saved." While fully recognizing the truthfulness of this would you also say that this statement is true ? "He that believeth and has red hair shall be saved" what do you think?
---mima on 8/28/09


"Where do we get faith?"
Paul also said, Romans 12:3: "For I say, through the grace given unto me, to every man that is among you, not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think, but to think soberly, according as God hath dealt to every man the measure of faith."

Matthew 8:10: "When Jesus heard it, he marvelled, and said to them that followed, Verily I say unto you, I have not found so great faith, no, not in Israel." Did the Centurion get two scoops of faith?

Why didn't the apostles get the faith they asked for in Luke 17? Have you seen a measure of faith in the law? According to Matthew 23:23, it is in there.
---Nana on 8/28/09


Read These Insightful Articles About Debt Settlement


Salvation has to come first.

Please follow my logic.

Heb11:6 But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.

- So then to come to God we must first have faith.

Where do we get faith?

Gal5:22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,
Gal5:23 Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.

Faith came as a fruit of the Holy Spirit.

Eph2:1 And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins,
So we were "dead in sin" and the Holy Ghost came and made us alive. Life alway precedes action.
---trey on 8/27/09


Salvation has to come first.

Do you still doubt? Let me ask you this, is baptism a righteous act? Would you consider baptism to be pleasing to the Lord? Does someone who is not saved have Christ working in them?

Php2:13 For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.

Why did you decide to be baptized? Was it because he had done a work on you first? Sounds like GRACE to me.
---trey on 8/27/09


Sorry Lesli, you can call Jesus a liar all you want. Mark 16 v 16, he that believeth & is baptized shall be saved. It does Not say that your to be saved first then you need to be baptized.
---Lawrence on 8/27/09


Lawrence - You are WRONG. Baptism has NOTHING to do with salvation. It is simply an outward act of an inward working. This is why salvation comes FIRST than baptism. The two are DIFFERENT, NOT the same. Just because you get baptised, does NOT make you a Christian. Salvation through repentance and Jesus Christ makes you a Christian.
---Leslie on 8/27/09


Read These Insightful Articles About Distance Learning


Greek transliteration-
SEMORON-definition:
1.This (very)day
2.What has happened today
Stongs#4594

Hebrew for Jesus-(Yahushu'a)
Definition-Jehovah(Yahovah)SAVES

Luke23:42-43
And he said unto Jesus(Yahushu'a)
"Lord,rember me when Thou comest into Thy kingdom"
And Jesus(Yahushu's-God who Saves)said unto him,
"Verily,I SAY unto thee,TODAY(Semoron)shalt thou be with ME in paridise."
Ecc 12:7-2Cor5:6
Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was:and the spirit shall return unto God Who gave it.
Matt6:11
Give us THIS DAY(semoron) our daily BREAD.
---char on 8/27/09


St. John 3:5 except a man be born of the water and the spirt he can not enter heaven..
There is NOWAY around this.
Read the bible, and obey it.
---Batieste on 8/26/09



Repentance & baptism Is All part of salvation. I know Acts 2 v 38, been there & done that even still there. I repented of my sins(all my wrongs)not saved yet, was baptized In Jesus Name (still not saved yet)
receieved the Holy-Ghost, living a clean & Holy life, I'm in the proccess of being saved every day till my number is called in death, raised out of the grave, the rapture takes place.
---Lawrence on 8/26/09


Salvation comes BEFORE baptism. In Acts 2 - Repent and then be baptised is the order.
---Leslie on 8/26/09


Read These Insightful Articles About Education


Mark 16 v 16 - Acts 2 v's 37-41 which Fulfills Matt 28 v's 19-20.
I've not found in scriptures where it says that your saved first then to be baptized.
Some trin-ministers will say, you dont have to be baptized to be saved but you do to be in my church. This Is So Wrong. This minister makes it sound like it's more important to be in his church,another Man-made idea his church, than to be In God's Church to go to Heaven.
---Lawrence on 8/26/09


Jim, Mary was conceived in the normal way by her parents, but, unlike her parents she received a special grace. She was saved by Jesus at her conception in preparation for her role as the mother of Our Lord. Just as God prepares those who would speak His Word, Jer. 1:5, God also prepared the one who would bear the Word of God made flesh as the new Eve, free from all sin. Remember that Eve was also free from all sin until she was tempted to commit that great sin that put us all in need of redemption.
---lorra8574 on 8/11/07


Why not let the Bible answer? Mark 16:15,16, "He that BELIEVETH and is BAPTIZED shall be SAVED.........." God said it, I believe it, end of story.
---Jimmy on 8/11/07


DEbra::Did I say that Jesus our saviour needed saving?you must be mistaken.Those without blemish (humans) need no saving as they are already saved.Eg Mary, St John the Baptist,who were both concieved by God Almighty Himself.You cite 3000 saved at pentecost? were they repentant -YES then they recieved baptism of the HS.One must repent before being absolved. Like the good thief on the cross.what is Baptism?an outward sign of inward grace.so repentance is first then salvation hence Baptism which is iniation.
---Emcee on 7/25/07


Read These Insightful Articles About Home Equity Loans


Debra::Did I say that Jesus our saviour needed saving?you must be mistaken.Those without blemish (humans) need no saving as they are already saved.Eg Mary, St John the Baptist,who were both concieved by God Almighty Himself.You cite 3000 saved at pentecost? were they repentant -YES then they recieved baptism of the HS.One must repent before being absolved. Like the good thief on the cross.what is Baptism?an outward sign of inward grace.so repentance is first then salvation hence Baptism which is iniation.
---Emcee on 7/25/07


Emcee.........was mary Gods only begotten daughter?? Or was she born due to sexual relations her mother and father had??
If the answer is the latter...she was born a sinner.
---JIM on 7/25/07


Emcee: I would be interested to know the scripture references you find to prove that Jesus needed salvation, and that Mary and John the baptist NEVER sinned. The only person who was without sin was Jesus. As for your statement about Bibical history, How about the day of pentecost when three thousand were saved THEN baptized? Acts 2:41. Simon believed (1st) and was baptized (2nd)Acts 8:12-13. The Ethiopian eunuch believed with all his heart (1st) and then was allowed to be baptized (2nd) Acts 8:26-37.
---Debra on 7/24/07


Faith:Perfection Needs NO Saving.Just like The Blessed Virgin Mary.Perfect is to be Like GOD that is what he wants us to be like him"Let us make man to our Image likeness "Genesis1:26 A+E had that quality but they listened to SATAN, were Disobedient inviting sin into this world Satan used the deceit'[You wil be like god'.God wants us to be the same that is why nothing defiled enters heaven.Satan still beguiles mankind.Still listen to Dr Phil or The word of God.
---Emcee on 7/20/07


Read These Insightful Articles About Interest Rates


Debra:The only case recorded in bible history where salvation came before Baptism was JESUS & Mary.they were without blemish & st John the baptist.In the NT.The rest were born with original sin which must be washed to gain salvationIt is an acknowledgement "I desire to be saved & iniated to Gods Family"
---Emcee on 7/20/07


Clearly, salvation comes before baptism. Baptism represents the dying to sin, being buried & rising again to show others the decision you have made to accept Christ as your personal Savior. Baptism is not required as a part of salvation remember the thief on the cross beside Jesus, and Jesus told him "this day you will be with me in paradise" getting down off the cross and being baptized was not a requirement but rather is a commandment of God for an outward show of an inner decision.
---Debra on 7/20/07


Jody - ("He was already saved as He was the GOD MAN.") -- God has never needed saving. What you say is false. God has always been God and He is perfect and always has been perfect and He is never going to change.
---Helen_5378 on 7/19/07


emcee: you know, adam & eve were perfect. in the words of Dr. Phil, how did that work for them? i don't want to be perfect, because then I would not continue to need Jesus. Being perfect will make you forget God just like they did. You must be perfect to enter Heaven, but the only way to receive that perfection is through the BLOOD of Jesus. Not of our own merit.
---faith on 7/19/07


Read These Insightful Articles About Internet Marketing


Oh Helen::Disgust heresy trash too late.Jody got part of it.OK-Do you save something with a blemish or do you wash it first?Saving means going to heaven?so do you go to heaven to be cleansed or becleansed before going to heaven.Remember nothing defiled enters heaven.Did Jesus say Follow me?did he get Baptised.was that not path of the way as a human in obedience to His Fathers wish,as all fall short-He takes on a sinful nature as man but as GOd He is PURE spotless.offering a spotless sacrifice.
---Emcee on 7/18/07


Faith: Can a saviour be saved ?He is the saviour of Saviours. He came as a God taking the form of Man to show us as humans it is possible to reach Perfection,even to death on the cross.why is it so many canot understand thatBeing God he lived his life as a man to show us its possible to attain perfection because That is what Heaven is made of as his FATHER-PERFECTION.He had the same feelings desires & needs as a man but overcame that in obedience to His Father.
---Emcee on 7/18/07


Emcee - ("yet He Willingly choose Baptism, first, then salvation on the cross.") -- Emcee, what you are now saying absolutely disgusts me. Are you saying that the RCC teaches you that trash? You speak heresy. To even consider that God needs saving. You really had better cry out to Jesus for forgiveness before it is too late for you.
---Helen_5378 on 7/18/07


Jesus did not die at the cross for HIS salvation. He died as a sacrifice fou OUR salvation. He was already saved as He was the GOD MAN. God does not need salvation and what an irreverent notion that God would need salvation. His baptism was an example of obedience to the Father for believers,just as he exemplified all else pertaining to Godliness and Life for us even to death for his friends. When he washed the feet of the saints, was that so he could be saved? No,just another good example for man.
---jody on 7/18/07


Read These Insightful Articles About Life Insurance


Emcee, you believe that Jesus was saved on the cross?
---faith on 7/17/07


All Naysayers:Is that assuming that one is spotless & does not need Washing or Baptism.Jesus was spotless yet he recieved Baptism -he could have entered heaven as is.but yet He Willingly choose Baptism, first, then salvation on the cross.AS adam2.
---Emcee on 7/17/07


Both water baptism and baptism in the Holy Spirit come after salvation, and have nothing to do with salvation itself.
---Helen_5378 on 7/17/07


Mima,I have seen your wisdom on these blogs. But this question sounds like an enticement to begin disputings and even inviting false doctrine which confuses readers. Christs Doctrine is to display ourselves with "one mind".For the purpose of readers, I will say what the other blogers say which is so elementry but just in case someone who is a wolfe comes to say the false thing, SALVATION must come first. If any other doctrine comes to you, Let it be acuresed as it is not of Christ.
---jody on 7/17/07


Read These Insightful Articles About Make Money


doesn't matter if you are EVER baptised with water. fully understanding salvation is what's important.
---faith on 7/16/07


Sorry to disagree with you all "Baptism of desire" by sincere repentance, was first & Jesus,then granted him forgiveness & salvation,maintaining the word "nothing defiled shall enter heaven.
---Emcee on 7/16/07


Mark 16:16 shows that those who believe AND are baptised shall be saved, but it also shows that those who do not believe are damned - independent of whether they are baptised or not. Baptism may may be done at any time, and even those who are unable to confess their faith, whether due to young age or mental incapacity, may be baptised and submit to God's mercy. Faith is a gift from God and is not in vain should we be unable to be baptised through no fault of our own.
---lorra8574 on 7/16/07


Come on now you know better than that. Salvation then baptism. And lets use a little common sinse. The thief on the cross had no water what he had was hell. Jesus [GOD] gave him favour and saved him.
---catherine on 7/16/07


Read These Insightful Articles About Rehab Treatments


Some denominations have Baptism first and consider that salvation. You don't have to make the choice for Christ yourself, it's made for you. Hopefully, it sticks for them.
Some cults conduct baptisms for the dead, I know those don't stick. It's a temple work and those don't mean anything either.
---Jenny on 7/16/07


Not the same. Thief on the cross had no time for Baptism, but he had salvation.
Salvation first, Baptism follows.
---Jenny on 7/16/07


Salvation = being born again (accepting Christ into your heart as Lord and Savior). Baptism = dieing to your old self and being made new. Salvation comes first, because you have to be born again before you can be made new. Birth comes before development.
---Leslie on 7/16/07


Copyright© 1996-2015 ChristiaNet®. All Rights Reserved.