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Are Catholics Truly Saved

If Catholic believe that it is a sin of Presumption to know that your going to Heaven, are they really saved?

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 ---Marcia on 7/21/07
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All Catholic-Christians I know are saved.
point being they accept Jesus as their Savior his birth , life, death, and resurrection and are awaiting his return. Christ is King of all ruler of all our Lord and God. We praise Him worship Him and Love and adore Him!
---lisa on 5/26/08

Helen::If Faith ALONE is a justification for salvation then why did Jesus preach many other things besides Faith.Love Hope ,Following him, attune yourself to Perfection.Bc we should not only presume on Gods there are other avenues to be explored.Satan knows Despair and Presumption are the 2 most deadly sins.That is why OSAS is a false doctrine.The more we live like Christ The greater is our chance for salvation,Use the right tools to get the best results.
---Emcee on 5/13/08

Roman Cathoics can believe that and still be saved. It is depending on works to save you that is the problem. GOD never says wrong doctrine will cause us to be lost. Not loving others will. Matthew 25:31-42
---Samuel on 5/12/08

Ed - You have a works justification, which is not Biblical and God does not accept. The only thing God accepts is the sacrifice of His Son Jesus Christ of Himself on the Cross for sin. Faith in that alone saves you and keeps you saved. It is Jesus who saves and He has paid the price in full. Galatians 3:11 "The just shall live by FAITH". Jesus' work on the Cross is a finished work and the moment you try to add to it you have fallen from grace, if ever you were there.
---Helen_5378 on 5/10/08

Joh 1:3 All things were made by him, and without him was not any thing made that was made.
Mary was so loved by God that He chose her to be the earthly mother of Jesus. She will not be anything other than a wonderful, grateful, saved person in heaven. Her rewards may be much greater than most, because of her obedience, but she is not now and will never ever be part of the Godhead. That is my understanding of the Word of the Living God.
Thank you for reading this.
---Doris_Gregston on 8/17/07


No, Helen, I am sorry but i am not going to accept your implied definition of 'debate'.

I am not here to split-hairs. I am not here to argue for arugment-sake. Nor am I here to ram my opinions down other people.

I am here to point out why (I believe) other people are wrong, and thereby bring them more to the truth. Likewise I am also here to learn from others, so that i too, may learn more about the truth.

That is very different to your implied definition.
---Ed on 8/17/07

2. Helen

If you are not here to debate, in the definition i give, then why are you are here? If you believe that debate is useless, then why come to this board. By your logic you are not able to add anything extra to the Bible. If so people should read the Bible instead of reading your posts. That is what happens if one takes your approach and argument to its logical conclusion.
---Ed on 8/17/07

Ed - ("Lastly, we have been debating for ages") -- God's Word is not up for debate.I tell the truths that I know from His Word.
---Helen_5378 on 8/17/07

Holly-directed was to Jim-U- responded. #1you can not separate the Mother from her Son.Upon birth-the umbilical cord is cut and that's a fact! Everyone knows the value a good Mother has on her child.That bond between a good mother and her child is never severed. Especially the Lord's blessed Mother.He listened to her while growing up. Mary the perfect Mother-raising the Divine child Jesus!God needed Mary to help Jesus grow up,care for Him, raise Him-teach Him until of age.Jesus honors His Mother forever.
---Lisa on 8/16/07

2. Helen

As Christians we don't have to talk about religion all the time. We are allowed to tell jokes, tell others what we did today, what books we like reading, and what we like doing in our free time. I mean children give their father pleasure when he sees them playing together, being themselves and getting on with each other.
Majority of our life is devoted directly towards God, but we are allowed to give some to our neighbours (Jesus commands it!)
---Ed on 8/16/07

3. Helen

Lastly, we have been debating for ages. I just don't want to think that all we are about is disagreeing with one another. That wouldn't be right, nor would it be pleasing to God.
---Ed on 8/16/07


"Jesus Christ and Him crucified" (1Corinthians 2:2). Do you love Him enough to do the same Ed?'

I was just trying to be nice. Sorry.
---Ed on 8/16/07

Or...He can name his new religion...

"ALL for ALLah"

Hmmm...sorta catchy isn't it?
---Holly4jc on 8/15/07

Ed - The only thing I want to talk about on these Blogs is "Jesus Christ and Him crucified" (1Corinthians 2:2). Do you love Him enough to do the same Ed?
---Helen_5378 on 8/15/07

Matthew, you say that others call those who live a holy life, self-righeous. What do you mean a holy life? Does that mean you don't sin? Here is the question again. Are you saying you sin but repent every time and others don't? Or you saying you live holy but they don't? how are you different then another Christian? Which sin takes others to hell, but not you? You said if someone sins, they belong to the devil. So again do you sin?
---tony on 8/16/07

Oh lorra please don't send him to us. Will anyone take him. Maybe he'll start his own denominations.hmmmmm

muslims for Jesus yeah - thats the ticket.
---Andrea on 8/15/07

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Andrea, that is news to me, but in this age anything is possible. Given that the Netherlands is a Protestant Country, it is rare that anything a Catholic says gets published, much less in context.

And given that an Anglican Bishop once questioned the resurrection of Christ and a Protestant theologian publically stated that the Gospels were contradictory to each other, I do not worry so much about a whole group unless the opinion is throughout the group.
---lorra8574 on 8/15/07

Andrea, P2: A little leaven, leaventh the whole lump - but only if it is allowed to permeate it. If it is excised quickly, then there should not be a problem. May be the Catholic Church needs to have another inquisition to get rid of any potential heretics. But we do have due process and that should be sufficient. Too bad that Protestants do not have that option.
---lorra8574 on 8/15/07

Andrea, I would also point out that Bishop Tiny Muskens (said Bishop) is a dissenter on other matters and not a proper rep for the Catholic Church.

Basically he is a Protestant who is not quite ready to break free yet, but may be ousted before long if he does not settle down.
---lorra8574 on 8/15/07


'My faith is totally in Jesus Christ and His finished work on the Cross for my sin, and His resurrection from the dead'

- all Christians believe this.
---Ed on 8/15/07

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I said i wouldn't debate with you anymore. Sorry, i did!
To be frank i would much rather chat with you about something else other than this. I don't know: something we have in common for a change. Any suggestions?
---Ed on 8/15/07

Ed - ("2. Helen / Mark Can you tell us exactly what you mean by faith? Your views and backed up by scripture?") -- My faith is totally in Jesus Christ and His finished work on the Cross for my sin, and His resurrection from the dead. I suggest you look up all the "faith" Scriptures in the New Testament.
---Helen_5378 on 8/15/07

A Roman Catholic Bishop in the Netherlands has proposed people of all faiths refer to God as Allah to foster understanding

you tell me?
---Andrea on 8/15/07

We are called to holiness and even told that without being holy we won't see the Lord.(Hebrews 12:14) So are we sinners or are we Saints? You acknowledge that you sin and repent accordingly? Good you do as you should! Do you say because I sin I am on the right track? That is error, yet that is what many claim on these blogs is being in the truth. Some actually act as if because I am sinning I am saved.
---Matthew_from_LA on 8/15/07

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They call those who live a holy life, self righteouss and damned. But you know what that sounds like?

Isaiah 5:20
Woe unto them that call evil good, and good evil, that put darkness for light, and light for darkness, that put bitter for sweet, and sweet for bitter!

In today's Christian world sinning is being saved and living in holiness is impossible and vain works of rightouesness. We are called to holiness people. Wake up and repent!
---Matthew_from_LA on 8/15/07


'trust' - absolutely. That is what i believe too. That is what the Catholic Church believes as well. And in order to demonstrate our trust to God we must be obedient to His will, in all that he asks us to think, feel, and do.
---Ed on 8/15/07

#3. Ed
faith comprises the essence of our hope for the future as Christians. In simple terms this means that we trust God for the future based on our faith in what He has accomplished in the past. To believe that God will continue to be trustworthy is not a gratuitous faith. There is every reason to believe that God will be as faithful to His promises in the future as He has been in the past. There is a reason, a substantive reason as Hebrews tells us, for the hope that is within us, Christ.
---mark on 8/14/07

#4. Ed:
"Saving faith" is the Spirit-induced confidence which cause a person to trust Christ as His sin-bear, (Acts 16:31, Eph. 2:8,9).
"Serving faith" is the confidence in God which prompts a believer to yield his redeemed life to God's will, (Romans 12:1,2).
"Sanctifying faith" denotes the believer's confidence in Christ as his source of sustaining grace and divine power, (Romans 6:11, 4).
---mark on 8/14/07

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#5. Ed:
"Responsive faith" is a working belief which produces the fruit of the Spirit, (Galatians 5:22,23, 5).
"Creedal or doctrinal faith" is trust in the body of revealed truth of the Gospel, (1 Cor. 16:13, 2:7, Jude 1:3).
"Faith pleases God and frees Him to act on behalf of those who honor Him by believing His Word, the Gospel, (Hebrews 11:6).
---mark on 8/14/07

#1 you can not separate the Mother from her Son.

Upon birth, the umbilical cord is cut and that's a fact!

But we as believers (Mary too) cannot be SEPARATED FROM THE LOVE OF GOD IN CHRIST JESUS.

Romans 8:38-39 For I am persuaded that neither death nor life, nor angels nor principalities nor powers, nor things present nor things to come, nor height nor depth, nor any other created thing, shall be able to SEPARATE US from the love of God which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.
---Holly4jc on 8/14/07

Lisa: #6 yes Christ died to set us free from eternal death.

Yes...but does that include going straight to heaven when we die or having to make a pit stop in purgatory first?
---Holly4jc on 8/14/07

#6 Ed: James is not saying that works save anyone. He is saying, "If any man be in Christ he is a new creation and if he is a new creation where are the works? If there is nothing there, James says, that faith you talk about is dead. But if you have true faith, which all true believers have, then you will produce good works, not because of yourself, because of your love for Christ. You didn't have that love before, your deeds meant nothing apart from God.
---mark on 8/14/07

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Ed ,the scriptures you gave speak for themselves. I have heard the question well what sin does it take to lose your salvation and I always respond "It isn't about sin it's about the heart." Has the heart turned away from the Lord and pursued after the desires of the flesh or has the heart remained in the faith, in the truth, in obedience, desiring the fruits of the HS? The wicked heart won't repent when it sins and makes excuses to not have to repent.
---Matthew_from_LA on 8/15/07

The pure heart repents of sins when they happen and desires to love god (which is obeying). Loving God and obeying can't be seperated. There is no "puppy dog love" with God although many think they love God just because they feel it. Sure, you can "feel" love for God all you want but if you aren't obeying Him, God could care less how much love you feel for Him. The feely kinda love is a human thing and is not spiritual.
---Matthew_from_LA on 8/15/07

It is safe to say a true Christian, one who is on the right track, flees from sin, which is repentance. Also the true Christian undergoes spiritual growth and in time reaches Spiritual maturity and thus lives a holy life. Free from the life of drinking,lieing,fornicating, etc. People will say that's impossible. When that happens tell them

Luke 18:27
Jesus replied, "What is impossible with men is possible with God."

Sure it's impossible for me to do it, but not God.
---Matthew_from_LA on 8/15/07

Understanding God is powerful and only God's power can sanctify(make holy) a person is the key to reaching maturity. Most hinder the Spirit, make excuses and eventually fall from the faith and back into the world. God once told me in my mind "If you are not growing then you are falling." I grow tired of people saying only God is holy. That makes me scratch my head.
---Matthew_from_LA on 8/15/07

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When the God tells us through His Word, "If any man be in Christ, he is a new creation." If you are a new creation we have to display it or manifest it by our works. Works don't save anyone, the law never saved anyone. Faith in Christ alone saves, and that faith will produce good fruits. God can look at our works as the objective proof that we are saved. He will look at our works and see a pattern of righteousness, true righteousness born of a love for Christ.
---mark on 8/14/07

Ed, So you want to test my faith. Today is the day of salvation, to the one that hears, sees and understands.
Faith in our world today is mistaken for a blind belief in something that is unreasonable. But to call the Christian faith "blind faith" however, is not only demeaning to Christians but an outrage to God. The saving faith of true Christians is a give of God. It is not blind and is but the antidote to blindness.
---mark on 8/14/07

#2. Ed:
Faith at it's root means "trust" and to the true believer is "to trust God" God is the only One who proves Himself to be trustworthy and faithful. To be credulity is to believe something for no sound reason. The stuff of which superstitions come from. Faith is established upon coherent and consistent reasoning upon sound and perfect evidence. Example, "Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen" Heb. 11:1.
---mark on 8/14/07

#1 you can not separate the Mother from her Son
#2 faith in Christ without works is dead (James)
#3 Christ told us to preach the Gospel
#4 All prayers to the Father in Jesus's Name is good
#5 We all know Christ is the way the truth and the Light and life! No contest here.
#6 yes Christ died to set us free from eternal death
I love the Lord my God with all my heart.
God bless you Jim!
---Lisa on 8/14/07

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I was hoping the someone from the RCC camp would decode my catch phrase. I should of known you would catch it first.

I would hate to be one of your kides, can't get anything past you.

(Emphasize)I mean this in a good way!!
---Marcia on 8/14/07

1. Jim

While "faith alone" is invalid, "grace alone" still applies: the works we do are originate in God and are energised by him. This is entirely distinct from the "man clawing himself into heaven" works envisioned by Protestants.
---Ed on 8/14/07

2. Jim

Please study:

"Not every one who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. (Mt 7:21)

Mt 25:31-44-- At the Last Judgement, the Lord judges the sheep and the goats based on what they have done.

The good man out of the good treasure of his heart produces good, and the evil man out of his evil treasure produces evil, for out of the abundance of the heart his mouth speaks. (Lk 6:45)
---Ed on 8/14/07

3. Jim

``For he will render to every man according to his works'' (Rm 2:6)

There will be tribulation and distress for every human being who does evil, the Jew first and also the Greek, but glory and honor and peace for every one who does good, the Jew first and also the Greek. For God shows no partiality. (Rm 2:11)

For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision is of any avail, but faith working through love. (Gal 5:6)
---Ed on 8/14/07

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3. Jim

Take care, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil, unbelieving heart, leading you to fall away from the living God. But exhort one another every day, as long as it is called ``

And this is his commandment, that we should believe in the name of his Son Jesus Christ and love one another, just as he has commanded us. All who keep his commandments abide in him, and he in them. And by this we know that he abides in us, by the Spirit which he has given us. (1 Jn 3:23-24)
---Ed on 8/14/07

4. Jim

And I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne, and books were opened. Also another book was opened, which is the book of life. And the dead were judged by what was written in the books, by what they had done. (Rev 20:12)

Works is something that derives from God. But we must be obedient to God's will for the works to happen.

Faith is about believing in God and also about being obedient to His will. It is not just about knowledge of (God), but loving God.
---Ed on 8/14/07

Marcia - demons tremble at the name of Jesus.
---Andrea on 8/14/07

Ed....please study John 3:16 real good.It is through our faith(belief) in Christ that we are children of God.(Gal.3:26)

It is not about Christ (+) mary.
It is not Christ (+) works.
It is not about Christ (+) knocking on doors.
It is not about Christ (+) rosary beads.
***It is Christ (+) NOTHING.
There is no other name given under Heaven wherby we must be saved. Acts4:12
**It is about Christ and Him only**
**It is the freedom we have in Christ**Gal.5:1
---JIM on 8/14/07

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I believe the same question can be asked of any religious circle. Is a Baptist truly saved? Is a Pentecostal truly saved? and on and on. ONLY God knows the hearts and intents of any man. WE do not see their hearts.All religions carry a church title,but God sees WAY beyond our titles, He sees our hearts! So,in answer to that question, ONLY GOD KNOWS, and we are in NO place to judge any man's salvation. For we ALL will stand before Him to give an account of our lives.Love on another!
---Charlotte on 8/14/07


'is also very hypnotic with all it's pomp and ceremony'

- there are different traditions of worship in Catholicism as there are in Protestant Churches. Some Catholics, in particular the friars and monks, have very low Church services. Where all there is a simple wooden altar, some candles and maybe a bunch of flowers. And that's it. No incense. No bells. No statues. Just the Bible, the wine and the bread. And that's it.
---Ed on 8/14/07

2. Helen / Mark

Can you tell us exactly what you mean by faith? Your views and backed up by scripture?
---Ed on 8/14/07

Mima - ("The Roman Catholic Church is the greatest hindrance to individuals obtaining salvation. Because of their heretic teachings.") -- I agree. It is extremely dangerous because it looks and sounds alright to the undiscerning person. It "has a form of godliness, but denies the power thereof" (2Timothy 3:5). It is also very hypnotic with all it's pomp and ceremony and idolatry.
---Helen_5378 on 8/14/07

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Lisa - praise God your a Christian Catholic.
Thats what I like to hear.
We don't get a theology test before we enter heaven - God didn't give me a better knowledge of Him then He gave you.
---Andrea on 8/13/07

Demons do tremble at the mention of "her" Name?
---Marcia on 8/13/07

'rarely hear protestants even mention her name except at Christmas when they sing the words "round yon' Virgin", or when they're attacking Catholics'

- this is worth repeating, whoever said this (?)
---Ed on 8/13/07


'There are some Catholics that are truly saved. But they did not arrive at nor get their salvation from the teachings of the Roman Catholic Church. The Roman Catholic Church is the greatest hindrance to individuals obtaining salvation. Because of their heretic teachings'

Unless you explain / reason / provide evidence from Catholic Catechism / show from scripture why Catholic Catechism is wrong, then i might as well say that Protestants believe in pink frogs that live on the moon.
---Ed on 8/13/07

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Andrea, if you were familiar with our "prayers" to Mary, you would note that they are requests for prayers from Mary to God on our behalf, just as we pray for one another in accordance with scripture.

The Magnificat is not so direct, but is a glorification of God, not Mary, and comes directly, verbatum, from the Gospel according to Luke - it was set up as a cantical to be used by the faithful.
---lorra8574 on 8/13/07

Well, I'm Catholic / Christian / saved!
Many are.
My church taught me:
Jesus is the way the truth and the Light.
They also read the Bible with us.
Christ died for our salvation.
Faith without works is dead! (James)
Faith/Hope / charity/ LOVE/ compassion.
The Trinity Father/ Son/ Holy Spirit/ Baptism
All the new testament!
The prophecy from old testament.

I know and follow HIm> Many do.
---Lisa on 8/13/07

rarely hear protestants even mention her name except at Christmas when they sing the words "round yon' Virgin", or when they're attacking Catholics.

Thats bc thats when we honor her.
She is mentioned in the Bible only a few times - albeit VERY important times. There is no presedence in scripture to pray to anyone other then Jesus Christ.
AS a matter of fact it is akin to idolatry. and should be considered anathema by any Christian
---Andrea on 8/13/07

3 Matthew

When the Good Samaratin showed compassion to the beggar in the ditch, it wasn't the Good Samaratin on his own showing compassion. It was God telling the Good Samaratin to show compassion to the beggar (God being the man's conscience). It is conscience that separates us from animals. And it is following our conscience that makes us obedient to God, and true believers in Christ, where we believe that He died for our Salvation. But we must have faith for the free gift of salvation.
---Ed on 8/13/07

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Good works are an evidence of salvation - regeneration of your spirit. The thief had no works so they are not a requirement - they are an out growth from a clean heart. And the glory is God's alone for it is Him who works through you.
---Andrea on 8/13/07

There are some Catholics that are truly saved. But they did not arrive at nor get their salvation from the teachings of the Roman Catholic Church. The Roman Catholic Church is the greatest hindrance to individuals obtaining salvation. Because of their heretic teachings.
---Mima on 8/13/07

1. Matthew

'Faith and obedience go hand in hand' - this is spot on.

If a person carried out their own will when trying to good, then that would be pelagianism or semi-pelagianism. But when one is obedient to the will of God and Gods communicates to us in our prayers and in our consciences to give to the poor, to pray, and so on, then it is we who are being obedient to God's will. Obedience and faith go together.
---Ed on 8/13/07

2. Matthew

It is through our obedience to God that we demonstrate our true faith. Faith is no longer just an idea (I believe) but a committment of one's whole mind, body and spirit to God.
---Ed on 8/13/07

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MatthewfromLA - Yes, God has given us commands to live by, but those commands do not get us to Heaven. Our obedience does not pay the price for sin, Jesus paid for that with His Blood on the Cross. We are justified, i.e. made right with God, by faith in Jesus' finished work on the Cross.
---Helen_5378 on 8/13/07

Col2:8 taken captive by the traditions of men.
Rom 10:1 paul teaches how men will try to obtain righteuosness through works
Acts 16:31 what must I do to be saved....believe on the Lord Jesus Christ....not join a baptized...confess to a man your sin
you must believe in your heart and turn away from salvation through man made institutions believing solely in salvation through Jesus.
its so simple even a child can do it!
---Andrea on 8/12/07

Helen Jesus gave us many commands to live by. Turn the other cheek, give to the poor, etc. We are to live by these commandments. We are to beg God to help us to follow these commands whenever we are given the oppurtunity. We live by faith and we also live by obedience. Faith and obedience go hand in hand. You can't have one without the other. Jesus came as an example, showing us how we are to live. He always obeyed God and he never sinned, so we must strive to do the same.
---Matthew_from_LA on 8/12/07

Ed - Why then are you living by works when Jesus commands you to live by faith? Scripture teaches it is Jesus who saves, and that there is nothing to be added to His finished work on the Cross. If you try to do that you have fallen from grace. Faith is hard to live by, because the human nature wants to do something, but God says no. I am not speaking of obedience to the Word because we are commanded to obey God. If you even think you have to do works to stay saved you have got it wrong.
---Helen_5378 on 8/12/07

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EMCEE - you've lost me on that one. I don't have control over anyone outside of my own family. and thats a good thing.

now if your suggesting that I use debate and argument to provoke and stir someone to look into their relationship with Christ - if that is a control issue ---so be it.
---Andrea on 8/11/07

"These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God, that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God." 1 John 5:13
So what is the sin of presumption - could it be something about presuming that there is a different way to heaven then the one Paul taught?
---Andrea on 8/11/07

Andrea::You are absolutely Right -salvation is a control thing not by the RCC but by your own sweet little self,its called self denial-try it you may find a change in your disposition.Faith by itself,and yourself in the name of Jesus will be Presumption because you are presuming on His mercy and forgot to read the fine print smiles wishes X's.Love is a 2 way street, endeavour is reciprocated.
---Emcee on 8/11/07

It is taught in the RCC that it is a sin to believe that you are going to Heaven after you die. Catholic believe that the sinner will either go to hell, Heaven, or Puragatory, so anyone who believe that they are going to Heaven is commiting the sin of Presumption. I disagree with this doctrine and believe that it is a stumbling block that cause people to turn to works for salvation in Christ.
---Marcia on 8/11/07

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A Helen

Can you please explain the following from the Bible:

Matthew 24:13 - "But he who endures to the end shall be saved."

1 Corinthians 9:27 - 'But I discipline my body and bring it into subjection, lest, when I have preached to others, I myself should become disqualified'.

Philippians 2:12,13 'work out your own salvation with fear and trembling'
---Ed on 8/11/07

B Helen

Hebrews 2:1-3 - Therefore we must give the more earnest heed to the things we have heard, lest we drift away

Hebrews 3:12,13 - Beware, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief in departing from the living God

Hebrews 3:14 - For we have become partakers of Christ if we hold the beginning of our confidence steadfast to the end

- "Now the just shall live by faith, but if anyone draws back, my soul has no pleasure in him."
---Ed on 8/11/07


'Have you asked Jesus to forgive you of your sin and to be Lord and Saviour of your life?' - yes.
---Ed on 8/11/07

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