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Christians Obey Authority

Why are Christians so rebellious and and non-Biblical when it comes to authority?

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 ---John on 7/23/07
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But it was an impudent affront to all religion, to forbid asking a petition of any god. Daniel's pious disobedience to this law. He did not retire into the country, but stood his ground, knowing that he had now a fair opportunity of honouring God before man. >>>We must take heed lest, under pretence of discretion, we be found guilty of cowardice in the cause of God. Daniel 6.
---catherine on 4/22/08

Andrea: You don't read your bible. We are told in the book of Hebrews to obey authority and those who have the rule over us. This also includes worldy leaders (even though they may not be men and women of God) we are to respect their positions of authority,anyway.
---Robyn on 4/22/08

REBELLION is a trait first displayed by Satan.This trait has permeated the whole of Humanity without exception.Few have learnt to Conquer this trait Those that do submit their wills to God,entirely and have gained Salvation.His words of Follow me appear simple but DYANAMIC to those who understand want to and deny themselves.He was obedient to HIS father.FOLLOW HIM.
---Emcee on 4/20/08

Here is some Bible truths>>>Authority--[Greek is exousia]. Although sometimes translated "power", referred not to physical strength or power, but to the rightful and legitimate exercise of power. A person has authority primarily by virtue of the position one holds, not by physical coercion or might.===Because God is God and Creator of the universe, God has sovereignty and dominion over all things. Only the Triune God has purely intrinsic Authority.
---catherine on 4/20/08

All Authority is properly God's. Jesus possesses the same intrinsic Authority as God the Father because He is coequal with the Father. [John 1:1,10:30,16:15]. During Jesus incarnation, there is a sense-in which His authority is given to Him by the Father. ====Human Authority. Since all Authority is derived from God, Christians should submit to the structures of Authority that God has established. God established an order of Authority in Spiritual matters as well.-More
---catherine on 4/20/08

Christian leaders should not FLAUNT their authority over others but should practice the servant leadership exemplified by Jesus Christ [1Peter 5:1-3].>>May I say something here: Every single person who holds power in their hands ought to practice doing good with it, instead of beating people on the heads.
---catherine on 4/20/08

Because there is no standard these days. The leaders and those in position of authority does not know how to treat the people in their care. They misuse and abuse their authority and positions and take advantage of the people. Leaders need to be taught. They need to be more loving and compassionate toward the people. There are many wounded and hurting sheep in the fold today.Money and prestige is the name of the church game today. The sheep are crying but no one hears. So sad.
---Robyn on 4/19/08

I have no problem with authority. My problem is with the leaders,especially the pastors. They show very little love and concern for the flock,today. But yet they want money,respect and total obedience from the people.You have to do as you are told, don't offer any input, or you risk getting put out of the church. They also want the prestige of a large building and many members to show off with.Tsk,tsk
---Robyn on 4/20/08

The answer is in these blogs. We all think we know everything, lol. I can't tell you how many times I've been burned because I said, thanks God, but I can handle this. Gulp! It's in my nature to be rebellious, but gratefully God has his ways of keeping me in line. :)
---Kady on 4/16/08

John, I just got to thinking about your question and I honestly feel if the Church would put her emphasis on loving God and loving each other--and not so much on who's in authority--we would really be more like what we're supposed to be.
---Mary on 8/16/07

Its not that the idea of sheparding is so bad its the obvious way it can be abused.
Why would anyone want another human being to submit to them? Why would you?
There is freedom in Christ - I choose to listen to my pastor but I don't follow him, I follow Christ and take resposibility before God for my own actions.
---Andrea on 8/12/07

That below 8/3 is NOT something i would write. I note someone by writing that swill is trying to tell mew to leave CN-That I will do without being asked twice.
---MikeM on 8/3/07

Those who have a real issue with authority have an issue with the Bible. Too much of the Church is compromised with the world, this is so more in America than any other country. Freedom does not mean doing what feels good for the Christian, for the uncompromised Christian it is freedom from not freedom to. When Christians are no longer at odds with the world, they are no longer Christian!
---MikeM on 8/3/07

If Christians are rebellious against God's authority, why wouldn't they be rebellious against any civil authorities as well?
eg: On whose authority was the 7th day made holy? Genesis 2:1-3
On whose authority was God's holy day superseded by the 1st day? Check the history books, it's not in the Bible.
---Robin on 7/30/07

"What was once called the Holiness Movement is now called legalistic. Our church was founded by spirit filled leaders from ft Lauderdale, Fl."

The Holiness Movement is legalistic and many doctrines are very unscriptural. A shepherding church is a cult.
---Ted on 7/29/07

God gives us preacher after His own heart. It tells us that in the book of Isaiah. There are righteous preachers around. Preachers that have been truly called by God to take care of the sheep. It is the bad and false teacher and preachers that people are against. We do not have to follow a false preacher or teacher or anyone that spews falsehood and untruths. That is our right. We do have choices. I use mine.
---Robyn on 7/28/07

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Everyone has a position in the church. Everything has to have a leader or chaos will follow. Christ is the head of the church. The pastor/leader should be led by the Holy Spirit. He is God's messenger. But we need to remember there are false preachers and teachers around also. They shall be known by the fruit they bear. Everyone calling on the name of Jesus will not be going to heaven or is saved. We(Christians) should respect genuine authority and leadership.
---Robyn on 7/27/07

Steveng: if a president commanded us to worship his statue or abort babies, "we must obey God rather than man" (Acts 5:29).
---Ktisophilos on 7/27/07

TED,This is exactly what I escaped at 16, what John promotes. Several of my family members are now excaping it as well, they even come to live with us for a time, telling us horror stories too sordid to post here. It Is the first and most potent exposure to pentacostal/fundamentalism I experienced. The trouble is most escaping from it never return to any church-of any type, thue its evil is double, what it does while within, and after.
---MikeM on 7/27/07

The "Christians" who are rebellious against God, do not have a right relationship with God and need to repent. However, let me make it clear that the only authority we are to see as supreme, is God. No humans should be regarded as being on this same level. See I Corinthians, chapter 1.
---Debby on 7/27/07

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Many are POSING as Christians, trying to get / earn salvation. They want to honor their own will & get many blessings from God. It doesn't work that way.

Christian = servant to God. We do what He wants.

Salvation =
- having the Holy Spirit =
- having an ability to do the difficulties that God requires.

Forgiveness, humility, meekness, sacrificial love, forego revenge: these cannot be done routinely without having His Spirit.
---a_servant on 7/27/07

Mt 7:13 Enter you in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leads to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:
14 Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leads to life, and few there be that find it.

strait =
- strict, as in requirements or principles
- difficult, stressful, confined, constricted
- strict, rigid, or righteous

We can't do this without the Holy Spirit.
---a_servant on 7/27/07

Shepherding: The relationships that were formed became known theologically as "covenant relationships". A network of cell groups were formed. Members had to be submitted to a "shepherd", who in turn was submitted to their representatives. At its height, an estimated 100,000 adherents across the US were involved in the networks.

Some of the early leaders of the movement came out of Campus Crusade for Christ, but Crusade itself did not embrace it.
---Ted on 7/27/07

Shepherding doctrine influenced International Churches of Christ, Maranatha Campus Ministries, Great Commission International/ Great Commission Ministries/Great Comm. Assoc. of Churches) . A network of accountability within church members, with individuals acting as personal pastors to others. Shepherding relationships existed outside bounds of individual churches, leading to the unusual situation of a church member being accountable not to others in his/her church, but someone outside the church.
---Ted on 7/27/07

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The movement gained a reputation for controlling and abusive behaviour, with emphasis placed upon importance of obedience to a shepherd. In many cases, disobeying one's shepherd was tantamount to disobeying God. Many lives were damaged, and a very large number of testimonies of people who have encountered damage by Shepherding teachings.
---Ted on 7/27/07

Shepherding continues today. Shepherds prefer to call it the "Covenant Movement."
It is cultic in nature.
---Ted on 7/27/07

I wouldn't want John as my Shepherd, and I'm glad I'm not his child. I can hear the spiritual abuse in his answers and beliefs.
---Ted on 7/27/07

The 'phrase', Do not touch the Lord's anointed, is greatly misused today. It is saying under no circumstance should someone be challenged. Using this as a strategy to pander to flesh is spiritually dangerous. "Touch not the Lord's anointed" used in this way will help you slide into a biblical compromise.
---Rachel on 7/27/07

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If they are rebelling against righteous authority, it is because they are not Christians, if they are rebelling against unrighteous authority, it is because they are Christians.
---Eloy on 7/27/07

I want to friend's daughter was involved in "the Church of Christ of Denver". This is part of the churches of Christ that do not have buildings, but meet in hotels, schools, etc. These churches usually attach whatever city they are located in to the words "Church of Christ" and they usually target young adults. My daughter was approached by them when she was a teen (around 17) when living in Miami. I believe they are called the International Church of Christ there.
---Holly4jc on 7/27/07

In our church do we not pursue anyone, but we vigorously reach out to those in the grasp of apostasy. This is an essential feature of our Churchs ministry. I have personally seen much joy in the faces of those brought back from a backslidden state or apostasy via our churchs ongoing ministry. The scriptures speak of divisions, as the consequence for following Christ between family members. Submission is not to be dismissed as its unpopular in our culture or Laodicean church as its a scriptural mandate.
---John on 7/27/07

And that would be a Scripture than you are using in error, as another method to make your shepherding church work.
---Ted on 7/27/07

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Mr. Ted. I have heard of some of these names but my church is no affiliated with them. My church is a charismatic church in Walnut Ca. that stands solidly on scripture. The heretic hunters are out in force, perhaps acquiescence to scripture itself by these heretic hunters would be in order. Submission to leaders is clearly taught in scripture. Mike Mocker and others should consider Touch not mine anointed is a scripture that comes to mind when they rail against the Church.
---John on 7/27/07

"Our judgment will be relative to our submission (to human leaders), for authority is of God. To resist delegated authority is to resist God's authority. We should not take upon ourselves the pressure to discern beforehand whether leaders are right or not. Nor should we judge after the fact. This is not our burden, but God's. He alone knows and can change hearts as He so desires."
This is from Watchman Nees book, "Spiritual authority"
---John on 7/27/07

1) Ted: You are so right. My girlfriend's daughter was involved with the Denver sect. She and her mother were living in Denver, she was in college, with a career in mind and had a very close relationship with her mother. Well she dropped out of college, moved out of her mom's and turned against her own mother, expressing hate towards her and then totally stopped talking to her. She tried to kill herself 3 times while in that cult.
---Holly4jc on 7/27/07

2) Ted: They made her move in with this lady who was in a wheelchair, an invalid, and made her take care of the lady, doing all kinds of "nursing" type duties, like bathing her, helping her use the bathroom, etc. Her mother had moved back to Florida, where I was and she and I, as well as my home fellowship group had to pray her out of it. The very last time she was in the hospital from a suicide attempt, she finally agreed to come back to Florida.
---Holly4jc on 7/27/07

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3) Ted: She came out of that cult a basket case, all doped up on meds and to this day, is still totally screwed up and it's been around 10 years now. When she moved back to Florida, the Florida group started to pursue her, (I guess they got their orders from Denver) and she got involved again for a time. She is extremely damaged and still does not talk to her mother. So sad...those cults...gggrrrrrr...they just make me so mad!
---Holly4jc on 7/27/07

A shepherding church is a cult.

International Churches of Christ, Kip McKean, Los Angeles, CA: Formerly called the Boston Church of Christ movement, this worldwide splinter from the traditional Churches of Christ originally developed out of the controversial "Crossroads" Church of Christ campus ministry in Gainesville, FL. Former members and critics allege mind control. Practices shepherding, teaches baptismal regeneration, and claims to be the only true church.
---Ted on 7/26/07

Shepherding: Christian growth is allegedly facilitated by yielding personal freedoms to a discipler or shepherd who controls virtually every aspect of an individuals life. This is a form of spiritual abuse, a manipulative distortion of true biblical discipleship that can ultimately rob individuals of their liberty and autonomy that is to be found in Christ. Used by many traditional cults, as well as by some religious organizations that are not cultic in their basic doctrine.
---Ted on 7/26/07

Taken in the Context of todays Laodicean churches or lukewarm churches I do believe that we need some Martin Luthers to blow the whistle on some of these prosperity preachers. We need Jesus's example of turning over the money changers in the Temple. The Church is to be a house of Prayer. Why do so many churches want to make merchandise out of the flock instead of children of God.

Now that is rebellion-- Against who? Against God.
---Marcia on 7/25/07

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We are to submit to their authority as to Gods. The reasons Churchs falter is rebellion in the flock. The scripture says bring every though captive. Its what scripture says I do not second guess scripture. Romans make this clear as does Tim 2. I make no apology for accepting scripture as essential to the governance of all in our lives, from our homes, to church to society, all must be brought under his dominion. Did the Israelites vote for Joshua? Did the Christians vote for their leaders?
---John on 7/24/07

lew: "His Word says that ANYTHING is possible w/Christ."

A little technicality: the Bible says anything is possible with God.
---Steveng on 7/24/07

WE have civil laws, moral laws, and ceremonial laws. Christians are told to obey the law of the land, but what happens if President Bush (nothing really against him) erected a statue of himself and commanded everyong in America to bow down to it? What path do we take as Christians against abortion?

On the other side of the coin, we are a rebellious people, even Christians, who have hate in their hearts and who believe the 10C are no longer. What does God judge if there isn't any laws?
---Steveng on 7/24/07

For starters, some are not really even Christians but are rather self decieved. Secondly, I can't lump Christians in the way that you have. I do agree that some are rebellious,but those are usually backslidden carnal Christians whos salvation is at risk. A Christian who is walking in the Spirit is not on a rebellious path. However, if an official would command him/her to reject Jesus,he/she would not obey.
---jody on 7/24/07

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There are so many false teachers and preachers around today. Many Christians have been wounded, lied to and misled so long they are beginning to rebel. Tired of being skinned and literally robbed blind by so-called prosperity preaching and teaching. Would would not be leary of these type tactics. Enough is enough. We need to stay in the Word, pray and not be persuaded by every sermon and preacher who says they have a Word from God. Peace
---Robyn on 7/24/07

The shepherding movement has been much maligned, and in the past, yes abuses have occurred. But it stands firmly on scripture, scripture many in the Laodicean church wish to avoid. Todays church is do what you want and accept some comfortable pagan heathen principles and standards, but not others.' Thats the Laodicean Church in a nutshell. Stand on the whole Word of God, reject works of darkness of the World, do not be a compromiser.
---John on 7/24/07

By rebelliousness, Christians accept some comfortable pagan heathen principles and standards. Todays Christians reject evolution, invented by atheist yet accept psychology also invented by atheist. Psychology has rightly so been called witchcraft at it is filled with occultists concepts, like the unconscious and 'collective unconscious.' Democracy, invented by heathens pagans yet accepted by Christians. Democracy is where man- thus sin rules. This is NOT the standard offered in the Bible.
---John on 7/24/07

Rebellion toward Nebuchanazzer, Rebellion towards Hamen, Rebellion towards Jezabel, Rebellion against Hitler, Rebellion towards Pharoah. Rebellion is not always bad and when a true Christian is rebelling it is often for the cause of Christ.
---Marcia on 7/24/07

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Some Christians are rebellious against authority because they have a demon spirit called Jezebel in them. This is a spirit that rebels against authority, wants complete control, and is walking in the flesh (not the spirit) the majority of the time.
---Leslie on 7/24/07

We are told to be holy. Christ was holy and w/o blemish. His Word says that ANYTHING is possible w/Christ. Therefore, I believe it IS possible for us to be holy, but it's not going to happen because of our fallen, prideful nature. That's where the grace comes into play as long as we admit our guilt. However, that grace doesn't give us the freedom to constantly sin as so many feel.
---lew on 7/24/07

Rebellious towards who?

When Martin Luther King marched through the south many churches said he was rebellious and sided against him. I would advise you to read Martin Luther Kings letter while in the Birmingham Jail. It will answer your quetion.
Christians are not rebellious to God as much as they are to Satin.
---Marcia on 7/24/07

Christians should obey the government on morally neutral areas (Romans 13). But we must obey God rather than man if the government commands immoral actions (Acts 5:29). E.g. Germans had an obligation to disobey Hitler's command to kill Jews.
---Ktisophilos on 7/24/07

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Why lump all Christians into the rebellious category? At our house, we submit to the Lord's authority. My husband is the head of our household. We respect and submit to our pastor's authority. Is there one specific subject that you think ALL Christians are rebelling?
---Susie on 7/23/07

You do not specify what authority we are supposedly rebellious toward. I can only say that the carnal Christian will be rebellious toward all authority, as they will sin in other areas as well.
---Madison1101 on 7/23/07

We let pride get in the way. And we have the attiude that no one is going to tell us what to do.
---Rebecca_D on 7/23/07

because we want to live in the flesh, human nature. that's why authority is hard to listen to.
---candice on 7/23/07

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Hi john, I believe we can be rebellious and non biblical because we still have the sin nature in us. In other words, the FLESHLY nature. The spirit and the flesh war against each other. It depends on which nature you submit to.
---Cynthia on 7/23/07

Nobody likes being "lorded over" by anyone, Christian or not. People who act all authoritarian are not being mature Christians, really. Jesus Himself said not to act like the Pharisees and other leaders who liked to "rule".
---Mary on 7/23/07

You belong to some sort of a fundamental holiness, UPC type church, which is cultish.
Everyone else who is not in a shepherding type church seems rebellious to you.
It's all relative.
---Ted on 7/23/07

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