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Holy Of Holies In Heaven

"When Jesus arose from the grave, He collected the blood that He shed, the only perfect blood in existence, and took it to the Holy of Holies in Heaven. Every drop of that blood is now on the Mercy Seat in the Holy of Holies in Heaven." Do you agree or disagree with this statement?

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 ---Mima on 8/2/07
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Ginger: No problem. I'm glad we could clear things up.
---Bobby3 on 9/25/08


markv, i would like to say thank you. you explained what i was trying to say perfectly. bobby3, it was my fault and i ask for your forgiveness. i get excited about God and get to typing and miss certain things. godbless you both!
---ginger on 9/24/08


bobby3, I am sorry. I was wrong about the spear. But what I say about the flesh is true. See 1 John 2:15-17 it talks of this. I agree with how MarkV explains what I am talking about. I have never claimed to be a teacher, LOL. The flesh is the enemy of God. Jesus gave us the example when he died on the cross. We cannot follow the will of the flesh(the 5 senses). The flesh will not do the will of God. Christ in the flesh did the will of God because he had a "quickening Spirit"(1 Corinthians 15:45)This is what Christ means when he says "pick up your cross"(Mark 8:34).
---ginger on 9/23/08


Also, another point that I forgot about. God took the natural things of the OT and made them Supernatural(Spiritual) in the NT. Many have asked if this replaces the old Covenant. I would say that it really is an Addition to it. I say this because when we accept Christ, all the laws are written inside of us, in our hearts and minds. This means we don't have to look at the 10 commandments to know when we sin and come under condemnation from the Father. We don't have to have a person telling us we sinned. God is inside us telling us what is right and what is wrong so we know we must repent. God Bless!!
---ginger on 9/23/08


Bobby 3, I agree with you and it is very important that we understand the humanity of Christ. He did come in the flesh, meaning He was human. A human body just like ours but sinless. After His death He was in his body, a body that was flesh but much different in ability. He could go through walls. He is now seated at the right hand of the Father in a humaness manner.
Flesh also appears in the Bible as humanity's flesh which is sinful on both believers and unbelievers. The believers body has not been redeemed and will decay and we will receive a new body at the resurrection that will unite with our Spirit prepared for the complete union with Christ who is Eternal Life.
---MarkV. on 9/22/08




Ginger, ginger:

It's not argument for argument's sake. If I disagree with what you've written, why can't I respond without being accused or insulted (2+2=4 by the way)?

You said that Christ shed His flesh and returned to Spirit form. You said the flesh is the enemy of God. You said the spirit/soul is contained within the blood. You said the piercing of Jesus' side released His spirit. You said only spirit can be in the presence of God. I have explained why I believe each of these claims to be (perhps not completely but at least in part) inaccurate. If you wish to engage the arguments, by all means do so.
---Bobby3 on 9/22/08


That is what I was talking about. You are still missing the point Bobby. Everything that Christ represents is Spiritual. What I ment was the sin nature of us. Which is exactly what you said. Do you mean to tell me that you can't put 2 and 2 together by what I was saying or were you just trying to argue for arguments sake? You know what brother, Try the Spirits. That is all I will say, Oh and stop trying to put almighty God in a box. He is just to big for anyone to do that. Think Keys- Spiritual Keys. Keys in this case mean clues, parables. Just try the Spirit. Bless you my brother.
---ginger on 9/22/08


Also, if you have access to an online bible, type in the word "new" and see how many times it appears in the Bible and how many context. God says many times even in the OT that when Jesus comes back EVERYTHING will be new. The things we see today will no longer exist.Not even the flesh we are walking around in. These are keys to what God wants us to see.
---ginger on 9/22/08


cont.

"The flesh profiteth nothing. The flesh is the enemy of God. We can not get to God through the flesh."

Scripture contrasts things 'of the flesh' with things 'of the spirit'. However, this is less literal than what you might be driving at. Flesh can be used symbolically to refer to humanity's sinful nature. However, this is not the only way 'flesh' is used in Scripture. 'Flesh' may also describe literal human (or animal) flesh. In such cases , 'flesh' doesn't carry the meaning of that which opposes God. For example, John 1:14 states, "The Word became flesh." Given this, we cannot conclude that flesh is the enemy of God because this would put the Incarnate Word at odds with God the Father.
---Bobby3 on 9/22/08


Something that ALL Christians are guilty of is putting God in a box but we should not do this. He is OMNIPRESENT , he can be anywhere and everywhere at the same time. When Jesus appeared to Mary Magdelene he was in his bodily form. Then he disappeared. He did not walk to go see the disciples. I hope you read that. He disappeared from her sight then reappeared to the disciples. This is proof that he could change his form. He is God after all. When we are caught up in the resurrection it will not be in the bodies we are in now. We will be given a new form. The Word says this. Read 1 Cor. 15:42-58.
Bless you brother!
---ginger on 9/22/08




Ginger, I disagree with much of what you wrote:

"Once He died and came back again, he could choose his form to be what he wanted...He simply shed his flesh and returned to his true form- SPIRIT."

Please provide biblical support for this assertion. Your statements here seem to deny Jesus' bodily resurrection, something orthodox Christianity has always maintained. Also, Jesus ascended BODILY into heaven to sit at the right hand of the Father and will BODILY return to Earth. This is what Paul speaks of in his epistles: Jesus is the first fruits of the resurrection. Because He was raised, so shall we be raised. (1 Cor 15)
---Bobby3 on 9/22/08


I definately understand your point and you are right DDM. But we must look at what was told to us and the power of Christ. Once He died and came back again, he could choose his form to be what he wanted. He is God after all. The fleshly form was to prove to the desciples that He had been resurrected. To return back to heaven did he die again? no he did not. He simply shed his flesh and returned to his true form- SPIRIT. God must be worshiped in SPIRIT and truth. The flesh profiteth nothing. The flesh is the enemy of God. We can not get to God through the flesh. Just search the scripture through the spirit. You will find I am telling the TRUTH. Bless You!
---ginger on 9/21/08


Ginger_Jesus was with the D's after his Death & Res., He appeared in the middle of them and it scared them as if they had seen a SPIRIT, BUT Jesus told Them to HANDLE him and he said to them Does a Spirit have "FLESH" as "I DO".
And then he asked for some food and they gave him a piece of honeycomb, and HE ATE it and said does a Spirit eat?
Do you want the Book & Verse's that give the complete account of what "HE DID & SAID"?

He ascended into Heaven with a body of FLESH,I think you've missed the point of "Flesh & Blood" not being able to inheirit the kingdom of heaven, ONLY thru the Spirit can we find Salvation & become a heir of his kingdom is all that really means!
---Duane_Dudley_Martin on 9/21/08


the piercing of his side was PROOF that his body was dead. Them Not breaking his legs was part of the fufilment of prophecy. the POINT is that Jesus killed off the FLESH to release THE Spirit. From this point on everything that was fleshly, became Spiritual. FLESH and BLOOD CANNOT ENTER INTO THE KINGDOM OF HEAVEN. Paul said everyday he puts the FLESH under the CONTROL of the SPIRIT. WE are told to walk in the SPIRIT. This means let the SPIRIT of God that is in us have control so we can do GODS will because the FLESH WILL NOT AND CANNOT DO GOD'S WILL. God bless you all!!
---ginger on 9/21/08


Just as Bobby3 says, Yahshua(Jesus) gave up the Ghost before Longinus pierced his side.

Jesus said "Father into thy hands I commit my spirit" and he gave up the ghost.

Then it had to be after Joseph of aremathia went and pleaded for his body from Pilate, this took some time, However the Lord was off the cross by sundown...
It was around 3pm when he gave up the ghost,
so that gave about 3 or 4 hrs. before sundown.
So this theory that Jesus did'nt give up his Ghost until his side was pierced is Hogwash.

The bible say's that they seen that Jesus was already dead(some witnessed it)so they did'nt break his legs as they did the other 2 that were still alive, so they pierced him instead(Prophecy fulfilled)
---Duane_Dudley_Martin on 9/21/08


Yes, I do remember the soldier who pierced his side, his name was Longinus,
Praise God for his tender mercies!
The story goes as this, Longinus was old & going blind when he pierced the side of Yahshua(Jesus) and water & blood came out him and sprayed all over him and it cured his dimmed sight and he became a Christian who was later crucified for the word of God...
Mysterious & Mighty are the way's of God!
---Duane_Dudley_Martin on 9/20/08


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"Remember when the soldier pierced the side of Jesus on the cross? water and blood poured out. This is the release of the spirit."

I disagree. Recall the sequence of events recounted in John 19. Verse 30: 'He said, "It is finished!" And He bowed His head and gave up His spirit.' AFTER that (though an exact time span is not indicated), the soldiers pierced His side and blood and water poured out. Given this, how does one interpret the meaning of 'gave up His spirit' if the contention is that His spirit was NOT released until the piecing of His side?
---Bobby3 on 9/20/08


Thank you markv. You are truly a blessing! katavasia is definately right, flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of GOD. This subject connects to the covenants God made with us. The first was a fleshly covenant. The new one is spiritual. Most people miss this part but when Jesus was hanging on the cross, he was sometimes speaking in the flesh - "My God, why have you forsaken me?" and sometimes in the spirit- "It is finished". This was a key to let us know His fleshly death had reconciled us back to God. yes, mima, I do when I don't know what to pray for, the spirit in me prays for me(tongues). Bless you all!!!
---ginger on 9/20/08


"Under the new covenant, only the spirit can be in the presence of God."

What about the ressurrected body?
---Bobby3 on 9/20/08


Isn't this a needlessly literal interpretation of Biblical symbols?

How is there "blood" in heaven, especially since Jesus said that flesh and blood could not inherit the Kingdom of God?
---katavasia on 9/20/08


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Not every drop of blood is on the Mercy Seat. If this were true, then we would have no way of being cleansed daily of sins, healed, delivered, and protected. The blood is also here on Earth (spiritually speaking) to help us with all that. The Bible says that we (as Christians) are the Temple of the Holy Spirit. What was in the Temple here on Earth and in Heaven? = the Mercy Seat (on the Ark of the Covenant). Since we are the Temple, we have the Ark of the Covenant (with the Mercy Seat) in us. The Ark contained God's presence and glory, so we are containers of God's presence and glory. The blood of Christ also is on us and in us (from salvation and repentance of sins).
---Leslie on 9/19/08


Ginger in light of what you have just posted I feel led to ask you this question,
Do you speak in tongues? In my spirit I feel the answer is yes.
---mima on 9/19/08


Ginger, thank you for discussing this topic with me. You can correct me if I write something wrong, or if someone else see's something that contradicts other passages. I am glad you are willing to discuss spiritual matters of God.
First of all, let me say, that you made a good point about Jesus death. Something that I answered without making sure, cause I was so possitive my answer was right. It had to do whether Jesus Spirit died on the cross or not, even if it was for a moment. I have to make sure it does not contradict other passages. I read something on that issue and now I have to go back and recheck again. This is a critical point to make so it takes careful reading on it. I will answer you back on that later.
---MarkV. on 9/19/08


Ok mark. The FLESHLY part of Jesus died on the cross. When I was talking about the sacrifice in the old testament, when the lamb was slaughtered, its blood did not go to heaven to atone for sin, its soul did. I did give scripture. It is not the spirit that causes sin. It is the flesh that we walk around in. We don't kill the spirit, We condemn the flesh. Paul talks of this. Just read corinthians. Jesus crucified the FLESH. Under the new covenant, only the spirit can be in the presence of God. That is how we commune with him. IN SPIRIT AND IN TRUTH. I know you know this mark, you are smart and spiritual. Bless you!!!
---ginger on 9/19/08


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mark, every living thing on this earth, God breathed life into it. This means he put a part of his spirit in us. We, as FLESHLY beings, corrupted this. God sent a part of himself back to reconcile us back to him. Read Genesis chapter one it says God breathed life into EVERYTHING. The spirit in us is what communes with God. Once we get saved, His spirit comes to live with ours. This is how in the rapture, we become transformed, made a new creature. We will not be in these bodies.I am free to answer any questions you might have on this. Oh, the new covenant, is the cutting off of the flesh and walking in spirit. God Bless!!
---ginger on 9/19/08


Mima- remember Jesus means GOD with Us. Well, when he was here, God was with us in human form. So, yes it is the same thing. When he breathed on them, He gave them some of the Holy Spirit. They got the full Holy Spirit after Jesus died.His death released it to us and He left it here with us. This is why why we must commune with God in the Spirit. Acts is full of things about the Holy Spirit. I call it the Acts of the Holy Spirit because the Apostles receive it and do the works of it. We can't have the power without the Holy Spirit. Acts 1:8 says this. Check it out because Acts is a great guide to what we can do when we receive it. God Bless!!
---ginger on 9/19/08


ginger you wrote,"Remember when the soldier pierced the side of Jesus on the cross? water and blood poured out. This is the release of the spirit. I hope this helps.
ginge7376"

The Bible says in John 20:22,

" And when he had said this, he breathed on them, and saith unto them, Receive ye the Holy Ghost"
question, is the Holy Spirit different from the Holy Ghost?
---mima on 9/19/08


Ginger, You didn't give Scripture. Even from the beginning where soul/spirit is concern.
Here is why on the first sentence, If soul/Spirit is contained in the blood, then all who are fallen have a living spirit, and Scripture say's they are dead spiritually. Spiritual Death is the condition of all before coming to Christ. And you are saying its in the blood.
Second, how do we shed the blood in the Sacrifice? When does that happen? I never heard of Christians shedding his blood anywhere. or did you mean Jesus shed His blood? And where does it say that flesh and blood cannot be in the presence of God? Flesh and blood was in the presence of God in the Old Testament. Jesus Spirit did not die on the Cross, His physical body did for He is God.
---MarkV. on 9/18/08


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You asked me for scripture..well here we go. Read 1 Corinthians chapter 15 starting from verse 21. I can't post it all here no room. It talks of the spiritual body and the natural body.How we were all made with living souls but how Jesus had a quickening spirit.. This spirit(part of God)is what wanted to do GOD's will. It is very very spiritual you must ask to see to be able to see. I wish I could really discuss this further but the blogs only allow 125 words. If anyone has ?'s feel free to ask. I didn't understand at first either. We must remember that the Bible is not all literal. It is also spiritual. God Bless!!
---ginger on 9/18/08


The soul/spirit is contained in the blood. When the blood is shed, the soul is released. That is WHY we had to shed the blood in the sacrifice. Flesh and blood cannot enter into the Father's presence. So it is the soul that gave remmition for our sins BY the shedding of his blood the soul was released to go back to the Father, where it came from. Remember when the soldier pierced the side of Jesus on the cross? water and blood poured out. This is the release of the spirit. I hope this helps.
ginge7376
---ginger on 9/18/08


ginger Leviticus 17:14 says this concerning the blood."For the life of the flesh is in the blood: and I have given it to you upon the altar to make an atonement for your souls: for it is the blood that maketh an atonement for the soul."

The life of all flesh is in the blood. Lord Jesus gave his life for us(his blood).

Also the Scripture says, Without the shedding of blood there is no remission of sis.

It was by his own blood that Jesus entered heaven.
---mima on 9/18/08


Please give me scripture to back this statement, it is an intriging thought but it does not make sense to me. Jesus' blood was spilled for mankind onto the dust that mankind is made of. Even in the old testiment the blood of the sacrifice was sprinkled on the alter, not the Ark of the Covenant. Jesus' blood is the new covenant available to man. Communion etc... ???
---Charles on 9/17/08


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Without the Blood of the Lamb(Jesus)of God, their is no sacrifice or salvation for the Sins & Souls of men...
---Duane_Dudley_Martin on 9/17/08


Mima, it was not his blood that was the sacrifice. It was his soul. No flesh and blood can enter into the kingdom of GOD. We must worship him in spirit and in truth. The key here is Spirit. Jesus' spirit or soul was the only perfect sacrifice acceptable to God. This is what saves us. The belief that this is the truth. So his blood does not technically save us. The blood is our evidence of his sacrifice for us. The blood contains the soul/spirit. This being said, that is why his blood is said to cover sin. It contains Christ soul/spirit.
God bless!! ginge7376
---ginger on 9/17/08


Mima:-You have made outrageous statesments but your Imagination does not coincide with scripture so in one word --NO.
---MIC on 9/17/08


I disagree. It's not in the Bible. The blood Christ shed does its work on earth. Did they collect the blood of the lambs that were the OT sacrifice and save all that? No because a sacrifice is something you give away/up,an offering, not to be hoarded-stored up/hidden away. Christ as High priest entered into the Holy Place,one time,instead of over and over,by His own blood made a way for us into the Holy of Holies.He redeemed us from the curse of sin by His blood. No flesh or blood shall enter heaven.
---Darlene_1 on 9/17/08


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After a close look at Hebrews I can find no better answer than to believe what Jack says,"Sounds like a needlessly literal interpretation of certain scriptures, if you ask me."
---Jack on 8/2/07
I agree that a literal interpretation of the Scriptures would bring one to this line of thinking.
---Mima on 8/24/07


Mima:

Where did you get that from?
There is NO scriptural evidence to support this WHATSOEVER.

So what do you think happened? Jesus rose from the dead, rolled away the stone, talked to the woman in the garden, walked all the way back to Golgotha (a fair distance away), found a bucket somewhere, picked up all the blood (that had soaked into the ground for three days already), rose to heaven, sprinkled it on the Mercy Seat, came back to earth, and want off to visit his disciples... ?
---Mark on 8/24/07


dj - thats what I said a dry run - as in a 'type' of the plan of salvation. Christ is our mercy seat. The vail being torn so that we could enter in -....
---Andrea on 8/23/07


"The temple was a dry run to God - a type - or practice session"

Oh, not even close. It was a physical model of how we are saved. The lambs that were slain was a symbol of Christ. The bread in the holy place was a symbol of us feeding on the Word. The candlesticks symbolized the HS giving us light. The MHP was the throne room of God, the mercy seat is the throne, the 10C within is the symbol of the nature of God: love.
---djconklin on 8/23/07


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"But BY HIS OWN BLOOD he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for us." -Hebrews 9:12

When I read this I remember that Christ stood outside of the tomb and said"don't touch me I have not yet ascended to my Father". Where was all that blood - did he collect the blood - He is God - it is not like here on earth the blood He sacrificed once for all was not about a physical act it was done in the heavenlies.
Not on a seat made with hands ...
---Andrea on 8/23/07


Before the foundation of the world God knew - "I think" that in order to have a relationship with us - He'd have to make a way for us to screw up and come back to Him.

The temple was a dry run to God - a type - or practice session

A relationship is not diety and little nothings - a relationship is family - we are His family

talk about moving in bad company - He must be going to do one mighty do-over when we get to heaven!
---Andrea on 8/20/07


The shedding of Jesus' blood brought about the remission of the sin of man. He gave His mortal, earthly life to redeem us from that sin. To purify unto himself a peculiar people, opened to and zealous for good works. The Father, until Jesus, accepted the sprinkling of blood upon A mercy seat fabricated by man, to honor His word concerning the extension His mercy towards man. However after His atoning sacrifice all conditions necessary for mans redemption were met, and by His own words, It was finished.
---joseph on 8/9/07


After a close look at Hebrews chapter 9 versus 13 to 28 I understand the understanding where this statement comes from. This teaching is definitely in the Scriptures, whether not your background or training will let you accept this teaching, is really the crux of the whole matter.
---Mima on 8/6/07


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I am on the road witnessing at a county fair at this time and staying at a motel. When I return home next week I will try to give some study to this question. During witnessing this idea was mentioned so I posted it.
---mima on 8/3/07


Hogwash, Jesus Christ didn't collect anything when arose from the dead. The veil was torn at Christ's death to symbolize direct access of all people to God's salvation through Jesus Christ. Before Christ died people would sprinkle animal blood on the mercy seat, God would be present and hear and answer prayers. To shorten this>>All we need now is the blood of Christ. He did IT all on the CROSS. Not when He arose from the grave, but on the cross.
---catherine on 8/2/07


MIMA Like I said before you have gone to an evangelical school of your own making & interpretation Mercy seat?I believe that is of Baptist origin.I also enquire where?? people on the street are gullible but Mima if you want to include this as a testing ground to your ministry you will have to resort strictly to HIS WORD.
---Emcee on 8/2/07


Mima,where is scripture in Gods word to support this statement? I do not agree with what you are saying.
---Cynthia on 8/2/07


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Read 9:12 I think.
---MIMA on 8/2/07


I find no scripture to support this idea.
---Susie on 8/2/07


Sounds like a needlessly literal interpretation of certain scriptures, if you ask me.
---Jack on 8/2/07


I have never seen anything to support that contention. Do you have a scriptural or non scriptural reference.

In reality Christ did nor shed that much blood. Only that of the scourging and the nails when he was crucified. When he was speared on the cross to see if he was dead there was little blood mostly clear lymph according to eyewitness accounts of John and Matthew.

It is a nice story but lack a factual basis so I would never use it in Christian training.
---Phil_the_Elder on 8/2/07


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