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Did Constantine Corrupt Christians

Did Constantine corrupt christianity?

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 ---Marcia on 8/2/07
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Alas, it is pitiful that Christians today do not read John Foxe's actual book- The Actes and Monuments of Martyrs 1583 edition.

John Foxe's 1583 book explains that:

Christians were sore persecuted for 42 months (294 years).

Constantine was a true Christian that vanquished tyrants and the peace of the Church was established for one thousand years till the time of John Wycliffe... (this one thousand years of peace the devil was bound in the bottomless pit for one thousand years as foretold in Revelation 20:1-3).

The year of our Lord 1324 was the year the devil was loosed out of his prison (Revelation 20:7-9).

That is why it's so important that Revelation 20:4 and 6 accurately write "a thousand year".
---Kev on 8/7/10


Him with others created their own Man - made christianity & Is corrupted, the trin rcc that came from here 2nd.Cor.11 v's 14 - 15.
---Lawrence on 8/7/10


Constantine worshiped mithra and only confessed Christ on his death bed. making Christianity the state religion was a way of appeasing a movement that was changing the world.
Unwittingly Constantine allowed the effects of money and power to creep into the church. So the church was corrupted as are all churches that succomb to temptations.
---Andrea on 8/22/07


Some of these storys about Constantine are fasinating, however they are contradicting. Some of them must be Myths.

Some state that Constantine was the Savior of Christianity and Some say Constantine is the Pagan Curruptor of Christianity.

Which one is it?
---Marcia on 8/13/07


Constantine was raised Christian in Britain he raised and Army to go and take back his right to the throne of Rome that was being held by a pagan Sorcerer he almost lost the Battle but Jesus appeared to him told him to carry the cross into the battle he obeyed and took his rightful throne. He sent word into India that if they did not stop their persecution of Christians he would take them also and they obeyed out of fear.
---Exzucuh on 8/13/07




Marcia

'Constantine was guilty of this, The RCC is guilty of this, and so are Apostate protestant churches' - you mean ALL Christian denominations are guilt of this.

Don't forget, however, the many in the Catholic Church who live in poverty. The Franciscans. The Dominicans. The Carmelites. The Benedictines. And many more. Priests, friars, monks, nuns - and some, even, were Popes. And don't forget that much Catholic doctrine eminated from Franciscan and Domincan theologians, in particular.
---Ed on 8/13/07


yoshin - even the people that are adamently anti-catholic have researched this and all in all they did a wonderful job of keeping the scriptures whole.
I know, I know
still the OT and many of the Syriac manuscripts that have come forward not in the RCs hands are identical.
A few differences did not change the heart of the word.
Thank you RC that fought and died to keep the word that we now all cherish.
---Andrea on 8/12/07


"Constantine created Christianity as we know it today by voting the books he wanted in the Bible."

Not even close. The church already knew which books were Scripture--look in a concordance for the use of the word "Scripture" in the NT.
---David on 8/12/07


*Constantine created Christianity as we know it today by voting the books he wanted in the Bible.*

That is simply untrue. The Four Gospels of the Bible was consider Scripture all before Constantine was born. The Epistles of the Bible was also consider Scripture long before Constantine was born. Learn your History! Read the Early Church writings. Constantine had no say to what books should be in the Bible.
---Ramon on 8/12/07


To Exzucuh, Constantine legalized Christianity with the hope of giving unity to a fracturing empire, as Christianity was growing in spite of all efforts to stop it. He did not actually convert to Christianity himself until old age, at which time he fully accepted Christ into his heart.

As for his affect on the doctrines and scriptures - look to China now.
---lorra8574 on 8/12/07




P2: China has state controlled version of the Catholic Church that co-exists along side the proper Catholic Church which is illegal. The government appoints Bishops which then try to seek approval from Rome, but if approval is not received, some refuse the "honour", others accept it and do their best to work within the Chinese system while still trying to hold onto their Catholic Faith.

The Church survived Constantine, and she will survive the powers that be in China.
---lorra8574 on 8/12/07


I would point out that most Protestants accept all 27 books of the NT - so if you honestly believe that Constantine was stronger than the Holy Spirit and succeeded in corrupting that, you MUST toss out all of your current Bibles and start from scratch.

I will warn you that this will be no easy task and you will find that Christians long before Constantine were using books that you don't like now.
---lorra8574 on 8/12/07


Constantine had nothing to do with putting the Bible together. Christianity was already divided into many fighting sects long before he was emperor. He was baptized on his death bed. At Nicea selected Bishops voted on what would be orthodox theology, like the trinity-what they voted on became orthodox Christianity for the RCC and protestants. Within a generation of his death the Christians were persecuting pagans and all other non orthodox sects. This persecution did not stop until about 200 years ago.
---MikeM on 8/12/07


ED>>>

It was said once by a wise man it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle then for a rich man to enter into the Kingdom of God.

I do see your point on how Christianity can be corrupted by those who use it as a means for gain.
---Marcia on 8/12/07


ED>>>

Constantine was guilty of this, The RCC is guilty of this, and so are Apostate protestant churches.
---Marcia on 8/12/07


ED>>>

Here is one of my memory verses: You would do well to make it your memory verse as well.

30:8 Remove far from me vanity and lies: give me neither poverty nor riches, feed me with food convenient for me:

30:9 Lest I be full, and deny thee, and say, Who is the LORD? or lest I be poor, and steal, and take the name of my God in vain.

I hope this help us all from falling into this wicked snare.
---Marcia on 8/12/07


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Helen

'Life' doesn't equal worldly riches.

Yes, Jesus is the King of Kings. And what role in life did The King of Kings choose: carpenter. The Jews expected their Messiah to come as a traditional king might, on a mighty steed, and defeat the foes of Israel in battle. What does Jesus do? He rides a humble donkey into Jersualem, and allows Himself to be mocked, persecuted and killed on a cross.

Jesus is The King of Kings in a spiritual, not a worldly, sense.
---Ed on 8/12/07


2. Helen

Many of God's names emphasize His great love for the poor:

Defender of the fatherless and widows (Deut. 10:18, Psalm 10:16-18, 40:17, 68:5, Jeremiah 22:16)
Protector of the poor (Psalm 12:5)
Rescuer of the poor (I Sam 2:8, Psalm 35:10, 72:4, 12-14, Isaiah 19:20, Jeremiah 20:13)
Provider of the poor (Psalm 68:10, 146:7, Isaiah 41:17)
Savior of the poor (Psalm 34:6, 109:31)
Refuge of the poor (Psalm 14:6, Isaiah 25:4).
---Ed on 8/12/07


Excucuh

But that isn't a reason for condemning poverty. Quite simply because Jesus said that if you want to be perfect or complete then go sell all you have and give to the poor. Poverty can bring us closer to God because we are in more immediate need of Him. Riches can expose one more to the temptations of the world.

I am no poor man. But my point is that many Catholics and Catholic theologians practise poverty - and this helps to guarantee and keep safe Catholic teachings.
---Ed on 8/12/07


Constantine created Christianity as we know it today by voting the books he wanted in the Bible.
---yoshin on 8/12/07


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Jesus did not say to live in poverty. if you seek the kingdom first God will provide whatever you need A rich man represents a person who is able to provide every thing they need.rather than seeing their own poverty without Jesus. You can be the poorest man on earth and still be considered rich because you don't need Jesus you believe you have everything you need but are spiritually bankrupt. To gain the world and lose your soul. The blood of Jesus is our wealth.
---Exzucuh on 8/12/07


Ed - ("My point about poverty is that Jesus said that Christians must live in poverty if they want to be perfect.") -- Jesus DOES say in John 10:10 "The thief does not come except to steal, and to kill and to destroy. I have come that they might have life, and that they might have it more abundantly". I am a child of the King of kings and I believe I should like a King's kid too, not like a pauper.
---Helen_5378 on 8/12/07


Marcia

I don't know.

There is an argument as to whether Constantine introducing Christianity into the Roman Empire led (eventually) to the downfall of the Roman Empire, itself. The Roman Empire was a wordly and pagan organization, although certainly it did have a few good points. People have written books on the subject.

The point about poverty, is that only those who live lives of complete poverty can be less lightly to corrupt Christianity than those in the world.
God bless.
---Ed on 8/12/07


ED

You keep dodgeing the question, I wonder why you even bother to post here. You could have just disregarded the my question if you disagree with it. I hve read other quetions here and have found answer to my question. But with you answer I just find ramblings about poverty and such.
---Marcia on 8/11/07


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Actually when Constantine made Christianity the state religion He rewarded the first bishop with wealth and that bishop turned it down fearing that it would corrupt the church. The next bishop (sorry don't remember names) took the wealth, power and extravaganzes given by Connie. So the popes knew that it was compromising - some did- some didn't - just shows how truly human they are.
---Andrea on 8/11/07


Constantine, well meaning and dedicated to Christianity, stopped all persecution of Christians. The things that he did, he did out of a well meaning spirit. trying to establish a government that operated with the church. He was not learned in the scripture and was taken advantage of by heretics that he had appointed to important positions, thinking they were dedicated to Jesus, but they were dedicated to a Jezebel spirit of manipulation and indoctrination of false beliefs that satisfied their ego.
---Exzucuh on 8/11/07


Marcia

My point about poverty is that Jesus said that Christians must live in poverty if they want to be perfect. Thanks to those many Christian theologians who have lived lives of poverty over the ages we have been preserved from the worldiness within the Church (whether you believe Constantine was a force of the world or not). Our Church is not perfect but don't forget that your church doesn't have theologians living in apostolic poverty, focusing, purely on God, prayer and theology.
---Ed on 8/11/07


ED:

I have been reading your response and can find no answer to the question I posted.
I don't see what Poverty has to do with Constantine and I don't see how asking this historical question would demean the Catholic faith unless you are suggesting that the two are connected and you are afraid that if it holds some truth that Constantine Currupted Christianity/Catholicism then your faith is a shame.

In any event, stick to the subject at hand and stop playing cat and mouse games.
---Marcia on 8/11/07


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Andrea

I know, I apologized to Marcia.
My anger has been building because a group of anti-Catholics on this board have been condemning Catholicism by subjective remarks, as opposed to objective ones (i.e stating exactly what the Church has done wrong and backing it up with evidence either from the Bible and referring to the error in Catholic Catechism). The attackers of Catholicism never (as far as i have seen) refer to Catholic Catechism which is lays out what Catholic beliefs are.
---Ed on 8/11/07


2 Andrea

I don't mind people criticizing Catholicism in principle. What i object to is the subjective , as opposed to the objective, nature of the criticisms. If someone goes on trial you cannot judge a man on heresay. You must judge him on facts if those facts are available. Those facts are available (The Catholic Catechism).

So it's not the criticism of Catholicism in principle that i object to on this board, but the unjust, subjective means that are used to carry that out.
---Ed on 8/11/07


3 Andrea

Lastly, I am not here to condem other people's faiths. I have been defending my own faith. And i find it hurtful that other Christians undermine and condemn it in the way that they do.
---Ed on 8/11/07


Ed - weren't you the one saying how unsupportive these posters were. Be nice and disagree.
Fuzzy thinking, I thought this was all about our fuzzy thinking. Trying to clear up that fuzzy thinking by pointing one another to Christ. Which is why whenever a denomination is mentioned people jump all over it. GOOD. None of us should be looking at a church to save us. We all need encouragement to go to our source - CHRIST JESUS.
---Andrea on 8/10/07


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Marcia

There is a time for fuzzy talk when it comes to the mysteries of the Bible. But there is no time for fuzzy talk when you are attacking the Catholic Church from the point of view of its traditions. Your analogy is completely incorrect: there is a world of difference between explaining the mysteries of the Bible and attacking the Catholic Church, based on its traditions. I am sorry but that is just lazy thinking (and lazy thinking that leads to the defamation of a faith you know little about.)
---Ed on 8/10/07


(2. Marcia. At least on some of the things you have discussed regarding the Catholic Church you don't seem to know that much - maybe on other subjects you do, i don't know).
---Ed on 8/10/07


3 Marcia

I don't mean to accuse you of 'lazy thinking' - apologies. But i have come across so much lazy thinking by some anti-Catholics on this board. They argue from hunches not from fact. They argue from heresay and what they have heard. Not what they have read and thought about hard. I don't mind people criticising Catholicism as long as they present us with a proper argument backed up with reference to Catholic Catechism and The Bible (i.e why they think the Catechism is wrong.)
---Ed on 8/10/07


ED:

You don't like that I speak in parables.
---Marcia on 8/9/07


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Perhaps if John Newman would have had a Bible believing church nearby instead of what he was brought up with, he would not have become a Roman Catholic.

People that are spiritually starved will always go after anything that appears to be good food even if it turns out to be just husk.
---lee on 8/9/07


Marcia

Stop all this fuzzy talk and gives us examples of what you mean. Your personal opinions count for diddly-squat unless you back up your claims with proof, facts etc ..
---Ed on 8/9/07


One thing I have learned since I've been on this site is that the RCC will alway try to lead you to a man in order to justify their traditions. I think it would be better if they would drop the tradition that are not in agreement with God's WORD so that instead of leading the brethern to mere men they can began to lead the brethern to Christ himself who alone has the power to save and destroy.
---Marcia on 8/9/07


Andrea

If you want to look at a well-known Protestant who converted to Catholicism look up 'Cardinal John Henry Newman'. Also, have a look at Sir Thomas More, the great defender of Catholicism during the Reformation - Thomas More, who was Lord Chancellor of England, and best friends with the leading humanist scholar of the age - Erasmus. More who was executed by King Henry viii for defending the Catholic faith. This was made into a famous play and film called: 'A Man For All Seasons.'
---Ed on 8/9/07


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2. Andrea

Another Protestant convert to Catholicism i recommend is Bishop Christopher Butler, who was a monk at the school i was educated at. He was a Cambridge tripos scholar and knew his Bible and faith inside out before converting. He played a major role in Vatican ii, which has been huge in the history and reform of The Catholic Church. He was also a decent and sane man. A monk, dedicated to the monastic life of the 7th century St Benedict - a life devoted to prayer and Christian theology.
---Ed on 8/9/07


Andrea:

Thanks, I appreciate the info, can't wait to start researching. Its 11pm though so I should probably go to bed.
---Marcia on 8/8/07


If you want to see how a lot of Christian doctrine was corrupted go to:
christian truth dot com /forgeries
Its amazing.
---Andrea on 8/8/07


Andrea

'Poverty is still not a good thing and not something to be desired' - this goes against the teachings of Our Lord.

Again, it is wrong to love poverty for poverty-sake. But it is right to love poverty if it brings one closer to God. Jesus says very clearly: "Jesus said to him, 'If you wish to be complete, go sell your possessions and give to [the] poor, and you will have treasure in heaven' Matthew 19:21.
---Ed on 8/8/07


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2. Andrea

"The foxes have holes, and the birds of the air nests: but the son of man hath not where to lay his head" (Matthew 8:20)

In Acts 2:45, the first Christians act thus: 'Their possessions and goods they sold and divided them to all, according as every one had need'

'Cult' is a charged word. It doesn't mean anything unless you can explain what you mean by it, and quote from scripture why someone or some denomination is guilty of that.
---Ed on 8/8/07


3. Andrea

Poverty is something that is taught to us by Jesus, Himself. Poverty goes against the worldly values of the Roman Empire.
Jesus doesn't tell us we must give up everything. Just that if you want to be perfect or complete you must give up everything.
This brings me back to the point that many of the major Catholic theologians lived in apostolic poverty - thereby having no distractions in getting closer to God and to understanding theology for the benefit of the rest of the Church.
---Ed on 8/8/07


ed...Poverty is still not a good thing and not something to be desired. If you need poverty to get close to Christ your picking the most difficult path - a form of self mutilation also practiced by many cults. The priests I've seen with a vow of poverty do not suffer as those in true poverty. they are warm, well fed, medical taken care of. Not so for the poor person trying to raise a family. So why take four posts to teach me about poverty. I'm 50+ I've seen it. Its ugly, it kills.
---Andrea on 8/8/07


Andrea

Sorry in one of my posts i said 'dangers of poverty' i meant dangers of 'wealth'.

And what i really want to say is that poverty is NOT a bad thing.
---Ed on 8/7/07


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Yes he mixed Pagan teachings with chrisitanity, but thanks to God that God can correct the past mistakes.
---candice on 8/6/07


1. Andrea

Jesus doesn't condemn money itself but He does condemn the love of money (and also worldly position / influence). But He does warn against the dangers of riches.

But Jesus also says: 'If thou wilt be perfect, go sell what thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come, follow me'.

And we know the first Christians gave up everything: 'Their possessions and goods they sold and divided them to all, according as every one had need' Acts.
---Ed on 8/6/07


Andrea

Many Catholics followed the first Christians in poverty. Many of them being theologians. Living in poverty gave them the time and space just to focus on prayer, scripture and theology. Of course, many Catholics are rich. And the Vatican is sumptuous, I agree. But is is Catholics such as Francis of Assisi, who lived in complete poverty, who remind other Catholics, including The Vatican, to be wary of riches. Many of the Popes arrived at the Vatican having lived lives of poverty.
---Ed on 8/6/07


3 Andrea

I am not saying we should love poverty for poverty-sake. But we must be mindful of Jesus' words and the first Christians in reminding ourselves of the dangers of poverty - and my point is not that i eat bread and water and a terribly good chap - but that many Catholics and Catholic theologians do practice poverty.
---Ed on 8/6/07


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5 Andrea

Just because people are born into poverty doesn't mean they are less favourable to God.
I mean many of the middle class Germans of the Third Reich were born into relative wealth and enjoyed greater wealth. In fact the Nazis thought they were special.
Job on the other hand was inflicted with poverty and every kind of physical suffering. And yet we know God loved him.
---Ed on 8/6/07


6. Andrea

I am not saying poverty equals bad, and wealth equals good. Or that Catholics are all good, and Protestants are all bad (of course not). But that riches can be dangerous. And Jesus warns us. And that Catholics have taken this very seriously. And that their much of their theology eminates from theologians who lived in poverty. For Protestants to think about this instead of condemning Catholics.
---Ed on 8/6/07


"Consider Constantine who corrupted Christianity from a relgion to a state institution"

This seems to be partially confirmed by historians who note Constantine himself never converted--apparently not even on his death-bed. His claim to have seen the Cross is just that, a claim. He wasn't the first and he won't be the last to use religion as a claok and cover to gain and retain power.
---David on 8/4/07


Ed poverty is NOT a good thing. Most Prot. don't preach poverty bc Christ promised life and that more abundently. Don't get confused with the prosperity message. Look at the promises of God. If the priests have to be in poverty and you are part of the priesthood of believers - have you taken a vow of poverty or is that just for the VATICAN _ THIS SINGLE MOST LAVISH PLACE ON EARTH!!!!!!!
Oh my. Please open your eyes. There is to much info out there online today for people to stay in willful ignorance.
---Andrea on 8/4/07


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Thanks for your responses, I just wanted to see How many people understood the application of the book of Revalation. A lot of us read the book and know the scripture but have not yet learned it significants and how to distinguish and apply it's discriptive time.
---Marcia on 8/4/07


It does not appear that Constantine corrupt Christianity. This is what I came across: He was First Christian Roman empire converted [312] on the eve of a battle. He established toleration of Christianity throughout the empire and dealt with the Donatist Schism and the Arian heresy [Council of Nicaea,325]. He defeated the Eastern emperor [324] and moved his capital to Constantinople [330] to face the Goths. Cont.
---catherine on 8/3/07


To face the Goths: What is the Goths? I shall enlighten you. A member of a Powerful Germanic tribe which, occupying a region extending from the Baltic to the black sea, attacked the Roman Empire, subsequently splitting into the Visigoths and the Ostrogoths.
---catherine on 8/3/07


Melissa

The Bible teaches meekness (turn the other cheek), apostolic poverty, non-violence, forgiveness, humility, compassion, and so on. All of these go against the worldliness of The Roman Empire. Down-to-earth
common sense is crucial for the Christian. And remember at the heart of The Bible is Jesus and His teachings (and death at the hands of the worldly Romans - so as to make possible salvation for all). And Jesus' teaching that the main commandments are Love God and neighbour.
---Ed on 8/3/07


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**He believes that Constantine changed and perverted the Bible to suit his own goals of making the people submissive to him. **

Melissa, have you asked your brother what specifically Constantine "changed and perverted," giving book, chapter, and verse--and the original readings?

Bet he can't give them.
---Jack on 8/3/07


Marcia

'Consider Constantine who corrupted Christianity from a relgion to a state institution' unless you back this up with facts and scholarship then this is mere heresay, and dangerous heresay.

The evil one is powerful but God's power is infinetely greater.
---Ed on 8/3/07


Marcia

Don't forget that the Protestant reformers didn't take on apostolic poverty like Catholics have done throughout the ages. Jesus says if you want to be perfect or complete: give up all. Many of the Church's theologians at the time of Constantine were living in apostolic poverty. And let's not forget that the Church has undergone many big reforms itself since Constantine. One of the most famous being Vatican II. Protestants: how many of their theologians have practised apostolic poverty?
---Ed on 8/3/07


My brother has completely fallen away from God. He believes that Constantine changed and perverted the Bible to suit his own goals of making the people submissive to him. I don't know where he learned this hideous lie of Satan, but he is very convinced by it.
---melissa on 8/3/07


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Marcia, it's obvious from your remark elsewhere that **Consider Constantine who corrupted Christianity from a relgion to a state institution:** you are not seeking information, but simply trying to stir up a ruckus.
---Jack on 8/2/07


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