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Church Under 10 Commandments

Does Christ want His Church under the 10 Commandments?

Join Our Christian Singles and Take The Ten Commandments Bible Quiz
 ---Ryan_Z on 8/7/07
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10 commandments are nothing compared to walking in Christ

it is not what goes into a man that defiles him but what comes out of him - his heart

your heart teaches you to obey not just 10 commandments but the commandment to love God with ALL your heart -

When we learn this we can move on!
---Andrea on 9/19/07


Toby - *So how can you say he didnt teach about dietary laws?*

I believe the Mark 7:18f dialogue is fairly straightforward as is Romans 14:14 that there are no dietary laws imposed on His church.

How you manage to worm your away around these verses and still hold to the Levitical dietary laws is really beyond most intelligent peoples capability.
---Lee on 9/18/07


toby -*I notice you dont answer the question asked of you to prove that the Sabbath has been done away with,...*

Again, I feel it is plain from the decisions of the Jerusalem council (Acts 15),that the Sabbath was not imposed on the church.

Furthermore, you have to ignore the plain meaning of Romans 14:5, Colossian 2:16, Hebrews 4, as well as the entire content of Galatians to believe that one must observe the Hebrew Sabbath.

God is pleased with those of faith that abide in Christ.
---Lee on 9/18/07


Lee I notice you dont answer the question asked of you to prove that the Sabbath has been done away with, but strive to twist scripture again in this new blog. Yahushua who walked this earth is the one who gave Yahueh's commands for clean and unclean foods. So how can you say he didnt teach about dietry laws? Mark 7:16 Tells us to listen closely to the word and we will hear.Cont 2
---Toby on 9/12/07


Cont 3 Rom 14:2 Now lee think on how silly your argument is when you truely read that some believe that they can eat all things, horse, rabbit, paino, tuba, oldsmobile, chev, and thats only a few of "all things", and others only eat grass, If he wants to eat a car or grass who are we to judge. Cont 4
---Toby on 9/12/07




whisper - Our righteousness is in our Lord jesus, not in our own flesh.

Phil 3:8-9 For his sake I have suffered the loss of all things and count them as rubbish, in order that I may gain Christ and be found in him, not having a righteousness of my own that comes from the law, but that which comes through faith in Christ, the righteousness from God that depends on faith
---lee on 9/11/07


What does righteousness mean to you?

Do you not realize that only those overcomers, the righteous shall inherit the Kingdom of Heaven. If you LOVE GOD you will keep His commandments. He was brutally murdered for you, this is the least you can do for Him.
---Whisper on 9/11/07


Faith will always produce works, or its a dead faith, just like a dead sun without light.
Works will NOT produce faith, as light will not produce a sun.
So we can say, faith(living faith) is all we need....This is truth...
---duane on 9/11/07


Jesus said to abide in His Word, His Word is Truth. The Truth shall make you free. If you abide in Jesus, then you MUST profess to keep ALL of the ten commandments. Period! Show me grace in the ten virgin story? For that matter, show me grace in Revelation?
---Dick on 9/11/07

His name is Jesus.

In the old testement it was the temple sacrifices given for forgiveness of sin.

God the same yesterday today and forever.
---Andrea on 9/11/07


toby- * "Most cults control behavior, food, dress in various ways" ... Under YOUR defination our Saviour was the leader of a cult.*

But Jesus did NOT command that people restrict what foods they were or were not to eat. Ever read Mark 7:18f where He stated that it is not what one eats that defiles one, but what comes from the heart?

Also His spirit thru Paul also told us one can eat what foods one wishes - Romans 14:2.

People like Adventists have problems with foods.
---Lee on 9/11/07




Denise, there are 10, no more, no less, they're a unit, the 10 Commandments-Dt 4:13, 5:22. Jesus summarized them in two categories, love for God (I-IV) and love for man (V-X)-Mt 22:37-40. The 4th Commandment links both: "But the 7th day is the Sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates-Ex 20:10 (v8-11).
---Geoff on 9/11/07


The command to love God with all your heart mind and strength and your neighbor as your self is what make the 10C moral commandments. The law is what tells you what sin is--that's why people don't want you to pay attention to it: they're faking it.
---djconklin on 9/11/07


There is
only two commandments
Luke 10:25-27 Romans 13:8-9Galatians 5:13-14
14For all the law is fulfilled in one word, even in this, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
---denise on 9/11/07


Jesus said to abide in His Word, His Word is Truth. The Truth shall make you free. If you abide in Jesus, then you MUST profess to keep ALL of the ten commandments. Period! Show me grace in the ten virgin story? For that matter, show me grace in Revelation?
---Dick on 9/11/07


You will never get to heaven by works (the Ten Commandments). But if you have faith you will have works. James 2:18 But someone may well say, "You have faith and I have works, show me your faith without the works, and I will show you my faith by my works." If it were about works how many will it take?
---denna7667 on 9/11/07


Andrea "Most cults control behavior, food dress in various ways" Do you really blieve this and if you do, think on this? Under YOUR defination our Saviour was the leader of a cult. He told us what is right and wrong behaviour, How to dress even to the length of hair, and he taught about clean/ unclean food. Yahueh promised us to become spirit and enter the promised land. Is He a cult also? The Pharasees had their own Talmud laws, "added laws" which they wouldnt let go of, to this day.
---Toby on 9/11/07


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Jesus said!!!! It is clear!!!
Matthew 19:17
.....If you want to enter life, obey the commandments."
Why are you questioning the Lord your God?
---Lisa on 9/11/07


Most cults control behavior, food dress in various ways - Christian cults use shunning and the threat of damnation.
Often the real draw to a cult is the promise of holiness.
Just like Satan saying to Eve - You can be like God - same lie - different day

the pharisee were the same - they held on to the law even as they beheld His face bc they could not let god be God.

if God does all the work you get none of the credit
But if you do all the work God gives you none of the credit
---Andrea on 9/1/07


Yes, Gina and both faith and works are GIFTS from Jesus. Our part is to spend time with Jesus... talking to him (prayer), listening to Him (studying His word) and doing things with Him (witnessing, outreach, etc.)
---robin8683 on 9/1/07


Gal 2:16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.
---Andrea on 8/25/07

*Works by itself is nothing (Gal 2:16)
*Faith by itself is nothing (James 2:17,20)
*Faith and works combined together is what justifies us (James 2:24)
---Gina7 on 9/1/07


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As James 2:17-24 teaches, faith that has works combined with it, is the faith that results in imputation of righteousness, because if we believe only it does us no good (as the devils believe in God and tremble, but it does them no good because they do not obey God, verse 19). "Faith without works is dead" verse 20. To teach faith without obedience to God and his commandments is to teach dead faith, worthless faith, faith no better than the devils angels faith.
---Gina7 on 9/1/07


To teach faith without obedience to God and his commandments is to teach dead faith, worthless faith, faith no better than the devils angels faith. "Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only" James 2:24. Notice this is NOT saying a man is jusified by works (obedience to the law) only. It is saying that faith combined with works justifies us.
---Gina7 on 9/1/07


Notice this is NOT saying a man is justified by works (obedience to the law) only. It is saying that faith combined with works justifies us. So when we say that by Faith are we saved, it is not by works, lest anyone should boast, it must be remembered that that Faith is one not separated from works.

* Obeying the law only is incorrect
* Belief in God only without obedience is the devils faith, and is incorrect
* Faith combined with obedience is correct James 2:24
---Gina7 on 9/1/07


Romans 6 describes the TRUE FREEDOM we have been given in Christ,and that is not freedom from the law, so that we can be sinners! It is freedom from SIN, so that we can obey!

"But now being made free from sin, and become servants to God, ye have your fruit unto holiness, and the end everlasting life." Rom 6:22

"What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin,that grace may abound? God forbid! How shall we,that are dead to sin,live any longer therein? Rom 6:1,2
---Gina7 on 9/1/07


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MaryG, Yes, you are right. There are many Adventist (as well as other denominations) who are legalists. Not in doctrine but in practice. They get discouraged when their behavior doesn't measure up and they get proud when it does.
The bottom line IS Jesus not doctrine and our obedience will depend on how much time we spend building a relationship with Him. Because He puts it in our hearts to do His will.
---MaryG on 8/30/07


Robin - largely agree with what you say, however, it is usually a matter of what Adventist you talk to. Some simply refuse to recognize others as being Christians if they do not observe the Jewish Sabbath or if one does not do the Levitical food laws.

And then there is that Mark of the Beast thing that Adventists will be placed on those that love Jesus but worship Him every day not just on Saturdays or Sundays.
---MaryG on 8/30/07


Hbr 10:29 How much more severely do you think a man deserves to be punished who has trampled the Son of God under foot, who has treated as an unholy thing the blood of the covenant that sanctified him, and who has insulted the Spirit of grace?

Hbr 10:38 But my righteous one will live by faith.
And if he shrinks back,
I will not be pleased with him

please take a moment and read these
- you're honoring the wrong covenant
---Andrea on 8/30/07


if we as Christians do not believe that what Jesus did on the cross was good enough to cleanse of of all unrighteousness -HE says we are 'insulting the Spirit of grace' and 'it is not pleasing to Him'.

When I've done this (tried to be good enough) the Lord has been faithful to make sure I fall flat on my face. THANK YOU LORD. But it has brought me to a daily reliance on Him a greater testimony of a 'work of grace'. His work not mine.
---Andrea on 8/30/07


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Jesus taught that our righteousness must exceed that of the pharasees. We are under grace and our "high priest and advocate" is Jesus Christ(see 1Jn18-10. We are under the Law of LoVE. 1th love of God and then our neighbors. This is primary and if one follows this command of Jesus, one will not break the others. Jesus said that he came not to do away with the law but to fulfill it. Our righteousness is in Jesus Christ as there is no good in our flesh which wars against our members.
---jody on 8/30/07


Jesus is the end of the law for righteousness but not the end of the law.
If our obedience doesn't come from a renewed heart, it's not obedience at all. When He lives His life in us, we will obey because obedience is in harmony with our own desires. continued...
---robin8683 on 8/30/07


continued... when the requirements of God are considered a burden because they cut accross our inclinations, we may know that the life is not a Christian life. True obedience is the outworking of His principles within our hearts. To obey and serve Him for His sake, not ours, can be the greatest motivation of all. Continued...
---robin8683 on 8/30/07


We are willing to sacrifice many things in order to honor those we love and not disappoint them. The upholding of the family name can be a real motivation.
Isn't the same true for the true Christian?
---robin8683 on 8/30/07


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MaryG, Adventist happen to agree with you that we are saved by Grace and grace alone. Obedience is the work of sanctification by the Holy Spirit who dwells in one who has been saved by grace. Just as salvation is a gift, so is obedience.
---robin8683 on 8/29/07


{Col 2:18 Do not let anyone who delights in false humility and the worship of angels disqualify you for the prize. }

And Ellen White has spoke of angels who communicated with her. That is sort of spooky in view of the fact that there are those who believe they have a spirit guide that directs them.
---MaryG on 8/29/07


Col 2:18 Do not let anyone who delights in false humility and the worship of angels disqualify you for the prize. Such a person
goes into great detail about what he has seen, and his unspiritual mind puffs him up with idle notions.
---Andrea on 8/29/07


Eph. 2:8-10 For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing, it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast.
For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them.

Sorry Adventists, but the Scripture tells us we are saved by grace, not by good works. It is God who works within the Christian to transform one into the image of Christ, not something of your own doing.
---MaryG on 8/29/07


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"the law is obsolete and those that won't accept His grace - won't get His grace."

If the law is obsolete then you don't need grace.

"I keep HIS commandments - but it does not make me or keep me Holy. Christ does."

Right on!
---djconklin on 8/28/07


"Obedience to Christ in accordance to that Spirit which indwells the Christian is one thing, but it can be a totally different thing to be obedient to some moral code."

1) You don't be "obedient to some moral code"--you obey God's moral code of love which is reflected in obedience to the 10C.
2) The HS would never lead you contrary to what God has already spoken through his servants the prophets (John 14:26).
---djconklin on 8/28/07


we didn't make it up - the law is obsolete and those that won't accept His grace - won't get His grace.
I keep HIS commandments - but it does not make me or keep me Holy. Christ does.

Why was the bush Holy? What did the bush do?
why was the ground holy?.......
---Andrea on 8/28/07


Had it been possible for the law to be changed or abolished, then Jesus need not have died. God does not forgive sins, He forgives sinners! Our sins He laid upon Jesus who bore the consequences of our sins thus enabling God to uphold His law and also be merciful.
---robin8683 on 8/28/07


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Dear.... the scripture repeats itself 3X - when a scripture does that it means ......you really really want to look at this. Not me - not my gospel - not EGW gospel - HIS gospel.

Gal 2:16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.
---Andrea on 8/25/07


Dear.... the scripture repeats itself 3X - when a scripture does that it means ......you really really want to look at this. Not me - not my gospel - not EGW gospel - HIS gospel.

Gal 2:16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.
---Andrea on 8/25/07


"While the law is good (1 Tim 1:8), it is unable to justify (Gal 2:16)."

You have misinterpreted Gal. 2:16--it is the works of the law that do not justify. Now what "work" is there in "Thou shalt not covet"? That is sufficient clue right there to tell you that Paul isn't talking about the 10C, but the ceremonial laws.

It was never a function of the 10C to justify, its job was to point out why you need to be justified.
---djconklin on 8/25/07


While the law is good (1 Tim 1:8), it is unable to justify (Gal 2:16). Under the New Covenant, Christ is our fulfillment of the law (Mat 5:17). Therefore, as to the question of what responsibility does the New Covenant believer owe to the Mosaic Covenant, the answer is nothing for the purposes of salvation (Gal 3:1-3).
BBB comentary
---Andrea on 8/25/07


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Obedience to Christ in accordance to that Spirit which indwells the Christian is one thing, but it can be a totally different thing to be obedient to some moral code.

That in part is why Romans 8:4 states that "the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit".
---MaryG on 8/22/07


*we should distinguish between works and obedience. Where the former is based on one's own efforts in an effort to "earn salvation" the latter is motivated by love and relies on faith to see things through.
---djconklin on 8/21/07*

Absolutely! Amen.
---robin8683 on 8/22/07


1Cr 10:23 All things are lawful for me,[fn3] but not all things are helpful, all things are lawful for me, but not all things edify.
---Andrea on 8/22/07


Rich - {Every Kingdom MUST have a set of laws to live by.}

The only law that Christians are under is known as the Law of Christ. It is totally one of love & faith, not one of following some law book.

1 Cor. 9:21 To those outside the law I became as one outside the law (not being outside the law of God but under the law of Christ) that I might win those outside the law.
---MaryG on 8/21/07


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"The view that Abraham observed the Mosaic Sabbath is without any rationale whatsoever."

Genesis 26:5 Because that Abraham obeyed my voice, and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my laws.

Which one's were those?
---djconklin on 8/21/07


Debby - In Matthew 19, the rich young man asked Jesus what he must do to have eternal life. Christ responded by telling him that he need keep the commandments and listed some of them. But keeping the commandments was not enough according to Jesus as he was told to sell all his possession and come follow Him. Keeping the commandments is one thing, but keeping the spirit behind the commandments is paramount.
---MaryG on 8/21/07


One must be IN the Kingdom of Heaven (KOH) to be saved. Every Kingdom MUST have a set of laws to live by. God said that He will be your God, but ONLY if you profess to abide by His covenant/10 commandments. God does NOT shack up! The ONLY thing in the 'Ark of the Covenant' when it comes down from heaven in Rev. 11 is this same covenant, the 10 commandments. You can say you love Him all you want, but you MUST show Him.
---Rich on 8/21/07


Yes, Jesus told the rich ruler to obey the 10 commandments. And we should repent regularly of our sins. And prayerfully rely on God's help to help us to be as obedient as we should be.
---Debby3588 on 8/21/07


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"Faith leads to obedience.
That's why faith without works is dead."

On a different forum I'm on one of the posters noted that we should distinguish between works and obedience. Where the former is based on one's own efforts in an effort to "earn salvation" the latter is motivated by love and relies on faith to see things through.
---djconklin on 8/21/07


His works that justified him was his obedience. He did what God asked him to do. That was his works and should be ours.
Faith leads to obedience.
That's why faith without works is dead.
---robin8683 on 8/21/07


While Abraham obeyed God and was counted righteous based upon his faith alone, the law was given some 430 years later and did not nullify the promise given to Abraham that believers based on faith alone will be counted righteous.

That much is at the heart of Paul's epistle to the Galatians.

The view that Abraham observed the Mosaic Sabbath is without any rationale whatsoever.
---MaryG on 8/20/07


Yes, Robin, he obeyed. There is no dispute about that, not even in God's eyes. But what were his works that justified him? We are to walk in those same steps so you haven't really answered the question. Abraham disobeyed from the get go when he took along his father. Why did God say he obeyed? Because where there is no law, there is no transgression imputed. David spoke of the blessedness of the man to whom the Lord would not impute sin. Abraham was blessed in all things.
---Linda on 8/20/07


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Abraham may not have left his father behind like he was told to, but he did leave. So, he has a debit and a credit. Abraham lied about Sarah being his sister to save his own skin. There's a debit. He also slept with an Egyptian bondwoman because HIS WIFE told him to. There's another debit. He did take Isaac up to be sacrificed. There's a credit. At this point, it is 3-2, so why did God say he obeyed? Because there was no imputation of sin because he wasn't under the law.
---Linda on 8/20/07


He wasn't under law, so what were his works? Please read all of Hebrews 11 and tell me what they were and you will find that the obedience of faith has nothing to do with the law. When we walk in the steps of Abraham, we walk by faith, not under the law. The law is not of faith but it does take faith to believe that a baby conceived by the Spirit of God in the womb of a woman was born, walked as the spotless Lamb of God, died and rose again the third day.
---Linda on 8/20/07


The works of faith reflect that work and are the result (not the generator) of the love of God toward us first. If you will look carefully at every one of Abraham's works, you will see that they point to what Christ would do in redemption. Leaving a country, praying for someone who had accused him, taking his son up on a mountain to be sacrificed, etc...all are aspects of the work of God in Christ and testify of such. Those works are altogether of a different nature than the works of the law.
---Linda on 8/20/07


Linda, Hebrews 11:8 says: By faith Abraham OBEYED...

All the saints listed in Hebrews 11 took action because of their faith. They all did what God asked them to do because they trusted Him.
Same goes for His people today. He says it, We trust Him, love Him and obey Him.
---robin8683 on 8/20/07


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Try reading it again - this time put your glasses on.
EGW - said all OTHER churches are an abomination! Jos Smith used the same words.

both cults judged ALL other denominations as abominations and then get all whacked when we judge them. hmmmmm

Think they're related or was that the wording of the times. They both came out of the same generation - maybe there was a demon running around at the same time.
where did EGW get her revelations - JS started in NY
---Andrea on 8/20/07


[Ellen White can speak for herself:
SAYING THAT SATAN IS IN FULL POSSESSION OF MY CHURCH IS PRETTY JUDGMENTAL _ YA THINK!]

It does not take a rocket scientist to understand why Ellen White - the entire Harmon family - was booted out of the Methodist church. They simply were not subject to church discipline.

No wonder Ellen hated the family of God so very much.

Isa 8:20 To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is cos there is no light in them.
---MaryG on 8/20/07


Andrea, you said "SATAN IS IN FULL POSSESSION OF [YOUR CHURCH]." When the shoe is cast on the floor, you seem a little hasty to place your foot into it. Do you identify with the fallen church or are you remaining faithful?
---Geoff on 8/20/07


AGAIN, Gina7, go to Hebrews 11 and tell me the works that Abraham, Joseph, Jacob, Enoch, Moses, Rahab, and Sarah did that justified them. They weren't the works of the law, either alone or with faith. The law is not of faith.
---Linda on 8/19/07


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Gina7, go to Hebrews 11 and tell me the works that Abraham, Joseph, Jacob, Enoch, Moses, Rahab, and Sarah did that justified them. They are all mentioned there. They weren't the works of the law, either alone or with faith. The law is not of faith. Until you read that whole chapter (along with its corresponding OT references) and can come back and show me that they kept the ten commandments, I will not continue to keep saying the same things over and over just so you can ignore the Scriptures.
---Linda on 8/19/07


The works of the law bring a curse according to Galatians - Linda 08/19/07.

Again, you miss the point. Works of the law BY THEMSELVES are a curse, and Faith by itself avails nothing, as Faith without works is dead. Faith must have works combined with it, in order to be effective, because the devils have faith in God, and tremble, and they will be lost. They will not be saved.
---Gina7 on 8/19/07


Ellen White can speak for herself:
I saw the state of the different churches since the second angel proclaimed their fall. (In 1844) They have been growing more

and more corrupt . . . Satan has taken full possession of the churches as a body . . . Their professions, their prayers and their

exhortations are an abomination in the sight of GOD." Spiritual Gifts Vol 1p. 189.

SAYING THAT SATAN IS IN FULL POSSESSION OF MY CJURCH IS PRETTY JUDGMENTAL _ YA THINK!
---Andrea on 8/19/07


Andrea, David said "the point is, you were lied to." I trust you are more motivated by truth than error.

John 17:17
Sanctify them through Thy truth: Thy word is truth.

Psalm 119:97
O how love I Thy Law! it is my meditation all the day.
---Geoff on 8/19/07


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So Gina7, what were his works? He was justified by works, but what were they?- Linda on 08/19/07

You totally miss the point, dont you? You just keep wanting to bring up mistakes of the great men of the Bible and think that it makes it okay for you to sin. James 2 states Abraham obeying God is what justified him, and in our day, it is obeying also. We keep the 10 Commandments. Just like Abraham, if we sin, we confess it and it is forgiven. Abraham's sin is NO excuse for yours or anyone else's!
---Gina7 on 8/19/07


Andrea: "the point david is that EGW set herself/SDA up as superior to Christianity"

Well, then the point is, is that you were lied to. Ellen White never, ever set either herself, or the SDA church, up as superior to Christianity. She always lifted up the Bible. Find whoever told you this and tell them to never talk to you again.
---David on 8/19/07


So Gina7, what were his works? He was justified by works, but what were they? Sure wasn't through keeping the commandments. They hadn't even been given yet. He lied, disobeyed God from the very get go, slept with someone other than his wife. So, what were his works? He did get up and leave Ur, a place of confusion. Even the church is called to come out of that place. Those who won't are in disobedience. That's a work there.
---Linda on 8/18/07


It takes faith to leave a confusing place you have been all your life. He disobeyed when he not only took his father with him but let his father lead. That brought him into Haran, a dry place. We are called as the church to leave the old behind and take on the new. If you take the old (the flesh), you will end up in a dry place. How about taking Isaac to the top of the mountain to sacrifice him? That's a work.
---Linda on 8/18/07


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None of those things sound like "thou shalt not bear false witness", "thou shalt not commit adultery", "thou shalt not steal". That sounds simply like "whatever He says to you, do it". How about the lepers who were all told to go show themselves to the priest? All ten were given a command but one turned back before completing the command and he was made whole. He loved the commander more than the commandment.
---Linda on 8/18/07


What about the rich young ruler? He had kept all the commandments from his youth and yet left the presence of Jesus sad because Jesus got to the heart of the matter and showed him that he didn't keep the first. How many commandments did Rahab keep? She was a harlot and yet her justification came because she received the spies and sent them out another way. She put that scarlet thread in her window testifying of every bit of light she received being filtered through the work of Christ.
---Linda on 8/18/07


Did you read that part in that same passage of James? So, Gina7, what are the works being spoken of here? The works of the law? I think not. The works of the law bring a curse according to Galatians yet Abraham was blessed in all things. The works Abraham did testified of the thing he had placed his faith in: the person and work of Christ.
---Linda on 8/18/07


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