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How To Lose Your Salvation

I see a lot of blogs about losing your salvation, which I believe you cannot lose. I am not asking CAN you lose your salvation, But HOW can you lose it? I believe that if you lose it, you never had it in the first place.

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 ---Cynthia on 8/16/07
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Hello Ruben, are you there? Born of the Spirit is a one time event on all who are born again by the Grace of God. Salvation is a promise. We are considered saved because of the Promise. A promise that we receive because of our faith, and we believe it to be true because Jesus said so, and we believe by faith in the sustaining power of Christ that it will happen, because we are depending on Him who gives us the Hope. What is the Hope? Christ. And what hope we hold on to? Christ. Salvation from the wrath to come to all who have rejected the Lord.
---Mark_V. on 8/9/08


Kathr, stop spinning and answer.
I spoke on meat on July 29th. Now it's about Jesus' return 2 1/2 according to you.

Really, you should question your Bible.
Your wishful thinking that the RCC added 7 books to the OT is foolish. You just want an excuse.

Because deep down you know something is missing with your Bible.

The RCC would add to the NT not the Old.
Adding to the Old, would also mean we would have to convince a lot of Jewish people to add these same books to their Testament as well.

If they were first how can we have the same books if we added them?
Does that make any sense to you?

Don't be afraid, ask several Jewish people and see if they have 7 more books than you do.

Brave?
---Nicole on 8/7/08


Mark Salvation is not a one-time event, it is ongoing process, Past, Present and Future

Past :Rom. 8:24 - for in this hope we were saved
Present :Phil. 2:12 - we are working out our salvation through fear and trembling.
Future: Rom. 13:11 - salvation is nearer to us now than when we first believed.

Mark works does play a part:
Romans 2:6-7 For he will render to every man according to his works: to those who by patience in well-doing seek for glory and honor and immortality, he will give eternal life, (cf. 2:8, 2:10)

Romans 2:13 For it is not the hearers of the law who are righteous before God, but the doers of the law who will be justified.
---Ruben on 8/6/08


Luke 1, The angel of the Lord spoke to Zacharias concerning a son: "Fear not, Zacharias: for thy prayer is heard", "And thou shalt have joy and gladness, and many shall rejoice at his birth.", "And many of the children of Israel shall he turn to the Lord their God." Luke 2:25: "And, behold, there was a man in Jerusalem, whose name was Simeon, and the same man was just and devout, waiting for the consolation of Israel: and the Holy Ghost was upon him." Point being, not all men are lost as proven by the Scriptures concerning Zacharias and Simeon. Salvation does not always come with sorrow and repentance, but with hope also. God loves the just, the devout and the prayerful man.
---Nana on 8/6/08


Ruben,
In the case of each person who is lost, (fallen) the only way they will receive Salvation is to come to Christ as the publican in Luke 18. He said, "God be merciful to me a sinner" Salvation is God's prerogative. It is not automatically mine because I articulate a formula with my lips. It is mine because God graciously grants it to me. It is a question of attitude. Rather then telling Him you qualify, you come holding nothing of value you've done which is pride.
The difference in salvation is attitude. The RCC have requirements to get salvation. There Catechism are full of them. If they sin, they are lost. It is their works that condemn them, because it was their works that saved them.
---Mark_V. on 8/5/08




You can loose your salvation. I lost my bike the other day. but seriously, how can you loose that which you cannot obtain in the first place and lets face facts, we were so sinful that if we had not been chosen in christ (Eph: 1,2) we would not have been saved.We stand upon a rock of faith that cannot be moved.
---Alan on 8/5/08


1 Tim. 4:1-3 is refering to those harshly addressed in Titus 1:10_16, specially mentioned "they of the circumcision".
---Nana on 8/5/08


*****V 3, does not say Meat. You added this word.*****

Nicole this was directly out of the KJV and NO I don't tamper with scripture in any way.

Is it possible the RCC tampered with the original to cover their tracks?

Seems there is a lot of tampering with scripture with various versions of Scripture promoting their own version and religion...AKA Mormon, JW, Catholic etc.

When we have supplements to the Holy Scriptures and the supplement is valued more then the original...watch out ...someone is up to no good!!!!!
---kathr4453 on 8/4/08


Jesus IS returning to Earth at the 2nd coming. You are referring to the Rapture of the Church.--kathr4453 on 8/4/08

Nope, no need to read Thessalonians. I can read your post.

2nd means only one before.
2nd means next after the first.
2nd means none between the 1st and the 2nd.

This Rapture will happen at His 2nd coming. Jesus states only returning once.

John 21:23. Matthew 21:12-28 Note first Persecution, Great Tribulation then the coming of the Son of Man.
Rev 7:3 Rev 13:7..wage war against the holy ones.

Show Scriptures from the Gospels not the Letters proving that Jesus is coming 2 and 1/2 times.

NO 1/2 coming between 1st and 2nd.
A lie from Satan that Protestants swallowed.
---Nicole on 8/4/08


The matter can be summed up by the following:
1. The Bible states if you Blasphemy the Holy Spirit, it is an unforgivable sin.
2. The Bible warns in the New Testament about teachings that forbid marriage and abstaining from certain foods. Well, Paul wrote that if you are single at the time you accept Jesus it is less distracting to focus on God if you remain single. But it is no sin to marry. Who invented the thought that marriage is a sin?? Believers are a "Royal Priesthood".
3. Remember God says He wants obedience to his Word as opposed to sacrifice. Read the Word of God, so as not to be deceived and don't blindly accept a man's word for your spiritual understanding. Ask God for the Holy Spirit to teach you.
---Robert on 8/4/08




Ruben - was it not the old Roman Church that forbid marriage (of priests) and required abstinence of certain foods (no meat on Fridays kind of things)? The reasons are really not pertinent however honorable that they may have been.
---Lee1538 on 8/2/08



No,

"But I wish everyone were single, just as I am. But God gives to some the gift of marriage, and to others the gift of singleness(1 Cor 1: 7:7)

"An unmarried man can spend his time doing the Lords work and thinking how to please him. But a married man has to think about his earthly responsibilities and how to please his wife"(1 Cor 7: 32)
---Ruben on 8/4/08


1 Timothy 4
1Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils,
---Ruben on 8/1/08


Again Ruben, this is an assult tactic anyone can use who defies their theology. It's an old and worn out and powerless attack holding no weight. Just to make this kind of statement makes no statement at all, except to say, anyone against the RCC teaching is of the devil.

!!!!
---kathr4453 on 8/1/



Kathr you were the one who first use this scripture against the RCC..remember
---Ruben on 8/4/08


*****Matthew 24:30-31 Only States Jesus coming upon clouds of Heaven and His ANGELS gather the elect from the 4 winds, from one end of the heavans to the other.
Where did you get He was going to Jerusalem?
Heavenly Jerusalem only means Heaven.
Use Scripture for your direct statement***

Sorry Nicole, Jesus IS returning to Earth at the 2nd coming. You are referring to the Rapture of the Church. He comes to meet us in the clouds BEFORE His WRATH.
At the time of His Wrath, the Saints will be with Him....and ALL will see!!!

Please re-read 1 & 2 Thessalonians.

Also note His return to earth for 1000 Years....EVERY EYE will see. However when the Elect are taken...only the Elect will see.
---kathr4453 on 8/4/08


Jerry, you are speaking about a person who has done a lot of righteous deeds and then turns to redo the wickedness he had done before. It doesn't have anything to do with the imputation of righteousness that is imputed to all who have faith in Christ. The evidence of his faith showed when he went back to been who he was before a wicked person. If a person turns to unrighteous life of sin, apparently his righeousness was not genuine (1 John 2:19). and God did not remember it as a valid expression of faith. God was applying this principle to the whole nation of Israel for their sin. It wasn't until Eze. 36:25 that God promised a new Covenant for them where He would clean them, give them a new heart, and put the His Spirit in them.
---Mark_V. on 8/3/08


After one becomes saved that person has an advocate before the father. In order for a person to lose their salvation or become unsaved that advocate must fail. In considering this matter we should mention that the advocate is the Lord Jesus Christ. And he is the son of the father, talk about an ideal situation in which to go to court. The father is the judge and the son is your lawyer. Glory to the lanb thank you Jesus praise your holy name!!
---Mima on 8/3/08


Why did these poeple do this?
1 Timothy 4
1Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils
Pe 2:1 But there were false prophets also AMONG THE PEOPLE, even as there shall be false teachers AMONG YOU, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction.
BECAUSE..
1Jo 2:19 They went out from us, but THEY WERE NOT OF US: for IF they had been of us, they would NO DOUBT have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that THEY WERE NOT ALL OF US.

At ONE TIME they professed too believe the TRUE gospel
---steven-rem7000 on 8/3/08


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I believe if you willingly and habitually plan to do sins such as adultery thievery and even lies you will lose your salvation.Were they ever saved? only God knows but if not some put on good acts for years.
---shirley on 8/3/08


1 Tim. 4:1-3 Now the Spirit expressly says that in later times some will depart from the faith by devoting themselves to deceitful spirits and teachings of demons, through the insincerity of liars whose consciences are seared, who forbid marriage and require abstinence from foods that God created to be received with thanksgiving by those who believe and know the truth.

Ruben - was it not the old Roman Church that forbid marriage (of priests) and required abstinence of certain foods (no meat on Fridays kind of things)? The reasons are really not pertinent however honorable that they may have been.
---Lee1538 on 8/2/08


1 Timothy 4 1Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils,---Ruben 8/1/08

Again Ruben, this is an assult tactic anyone can use who defies their theology. anyone against the RCC teaching is of the devil.
Even Jim Jones had his people convinced everyone else was the enemy, by using this tactic!---kathr4453 8/1/08

No, what Ruben states is True!

Remeber, Ruben gave Scripture. How is this a tactic?

You make statements without Scripture. It is you who is using tactics. No Scripture used.

Don't get mad at Ruben because he plays your game well. Read your Bible and do the same.

If you can?
---Nicole on 8/2/08


Eze 18:24 But when the righteous turneth away from his righteousness, and committeth iniquity, and doeth according to all the abominations that the wicked man doeth, shall he live? All his righteousness that he hath done shall not be mentioned: in his trespass that he hath trespassed, and in his sin that he hath sinned, in them shall he die.
---jerry6593 on 8/2/08


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ROMAN Catholic Church. Why Roman? Why American...why England. Jesus would never name His Church after teh earth or anything inthe earth.---kathr4453

No, He just told Peter, "whatever you bind on earth is bound in Heaven."
Naming the His Church, falls under 'whatever'.

When Jesus returns He won't be going to Rome to set up His Earthly Kingdom, but to Jerusalem. Also the Heavenly Jerusalem is not called the Heavenly Rome.- Kathr

Matthew 24:30-31 Only States Jesus coming upon clouds of Heaven and His ANGELS gather the elect from the 4 winds, from one end of the heavans to the other.
Where did you get He was going to Jerusalem?
Heavenly Jerusalem only means Heaven.
Use Scripture for your direct statement.
---Nicole on 8/1/08


Jesus was talking to people, not to an organisation ---alan_of_UK

Matthew 24:3-14
As He was sitting on the Mount of Olives, the Disciples approached Him privately and said. (note privately)
..Then they will hand you over to persecution, and they will kill you. You will be hated by all Nations because of my name....Many false prophets will arise and deceive many,...And this Gospel of the Kingdomw will be preached throughtout the world as a witness to all Nations, and then the end will come.

Alan, what Church do you know that is hated by all Nations throughout the ages?
Plus this same Church throughout the ages Preached to all Nations?

One, the RCC.

Yes, Jesus was speaking to an organisation, His Church.
---Nicole on 8/1/08


For one to be saved eternally one must first be born again (John 3:3) whereupon one acquires a new nature (2 Cor. 5:17)and become adopted in the family of God and is a son or daughter. Eph. 1:5

It stands to reason that if one can lose his or her salvation, then one must become unborn and lose that new nature and no longer be a son or daughter of God. I would wonder how that can happen in view of the fact that God constantly persues us with His love and disciplines those whom He does love.

The argument that one can simply drift away or commit some kind of sin by which he can lose his salvation seems rather foreign to what we know to be the nature of God.
---Lee1538 on 8/1/08


1 Timothy 4
1Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils,
---Ruben on 8/1/08


Again Ruben, this is an assult tactic anyone can use who defies their theology. It's an old and worn out and powerless attack holding no weight. Just to make this kind of statement makes no statement at all, except to say, anyone against the RCC teaching is of the devil.

Jesus was also accused of having a demon, by who,???? devout Jews!

It does not PROVE Truth....that will set you FREE!!!!!!


Even Jim Jones had his people convinced everyone else was the enemy, by using this tactic!!!!!
---kathr4453 on 8/1/08


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Mat 11:25 At that time Jesus answered and said, I thank thee, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because thou hast hid these things from the wise and prudent, and hast revealed them unto babes.
Mat 11:26 Even so, Father: for so it seemed good in thy sight.
If God has set His love on someone and revealed Himself to someone you can be sure He will keep them until that day.
Jesus is the author and finisher of a believer faith. He alone has REDEEMED them. Alot of the "IF" in the bible are warnings. Examine yourself to see IF you are in the faith, except you be reprobate.
---steven-rem7000 on 8/1/08


Ruben ... "But here is what Jesus said about the RCC:
"God blesses you when people mock you and persecute you and lie about you[a] and say all sorts of evil things against you because you are my followers. 12 Be happy about it! Be very glad! (Matt 5:11)"

C'mon Ruben, Jesus was talking to people, not to an organisation
---alan_of_UK on 8/1/08



Alan, there are people in the organisation, if they can say this why not?

Nicole, Here is what the Bible says about the RCC stranglehold on it's people.


1 Timothy 4
1Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils,
---Ruben on 8/1/08


Nicole. Lets clear the air. Another correction, "I never said that through faith in Jesus and the Catechism of the RCC." and so you say I was right, which I never said that.

1226: "From the very day of Pentecost the Church has celebrated and administered holy Baptism. Indeed St. Peter declares to the crowd astounded by his teaching: "Repent" and be baptized everyone of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins, and you shall recive the gift of the Holy Spirit. The apostles and their collaborators offer Baptism to anyone "who believed in Jesus:.." In order to believe in Jesus Christ one has to have faith first before Baptism.
---Mark_V. on 8/1/08


********But here is what Jesus said about the RCC:***

Ruben, #2

When Jesus returns He won't be going to Rome to set up His Earthly Kingdom, but to Jerusalem. Also the Heavenly Jerusalem is not called the Heavenly Rome.

Also prophecy in the OT states what Gate He will enter. The Arab's Dome of the Rock and control over Jerusalem have sealed off this Gate, knowing this Prophecy as well.



Now does or did the RCC have their hand in this.....YEP, when Jerusalem was raised in 135AD, and renamed, trying to totally destroy any History God/Israel has over this area, and future events.

Jesus is not coming to the Vatican.
---kathr4453 on 8/1/08


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Ruben ... "But here is what Jesus said about the RCC:
"God blesses you when people mock you and persecute you and lie about you[a] and say all sorts of evil things against you because you are my followers. 12 Be happy about it! Be very glad! For a great reward awaits you in heaven. (Matt 5:11)"

C'mon Ruben, Jesus was talking to people, not to an organisation
---alan_of_UK on 8/1/08


********But here is what Jesus said about the RCC:
God blesses you when people mock you and persecute you and lie about you[a] and say all sorts of evil things against you because you are my followers.*******

Ruben, do you realize anyone can say what you just said. But not everyone's truth is truth. Jesus never ordained the RCC.....

ROMAN Catholic Church. Why Roman? Why American...why England. Jesus would never name His Church after teh earth or anything inthe earth.
---kathr4453 on 7/31/08


Mark_V, seriously, when you were Catholic, did you even read the Catechism for yourself?

We do not sprinkle. This is a Protestant lie on RCC. Please keep your data apart.

We pour water 3 times over the forehead. If you are big and can speak. You can choose to immerse under water and back up 3 times if you wish.

But, we can't with a baby.
The baby would be upset with us.

#1278 The essential rite of Baptism consists in immersing the candidate in water or POURING water on his head, while pronouncing the invocation of the Most Holy Trinity.
Your last statement we agree concerning Salvation only through Jesus.-Catechism of the RCC.

If you have the first Edition from 1992 (Brown cover) this is on page 325.
---Nicole on 7/31/08


Paul says in Romans 11:20-22. He is talking to people of faith (born again)

[20] That is true. They were broken off because of their unbelief, but you stand fast only through faith. So do not become proud, but stand in awe.
[21] For if God did not spare the natural branches, neither will he spare you.
[22] Note then the kindness and the severity of God: severity toward those who have fallen, but God's kindness to you, provided you continue in his kindness, otherwise you too will be cut off.
I am redeemed and like the apostle Paul I am working out my salvation with fear and trembling, with hopeful confidence- but not with a false assurance.
---Johannes on 7/31/08


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Cynthia, you cannot lose what you never had. That is a fact of the Catholic doctrines. They say they can lose salvation but they have to have it in the first place, and salvation comes by grace through faith. The reason the Catholics lose what they think is salvation is because they are trying to earn it by their righteous great deeds, a salvation that is earned by putting water over them, actually sprinkling water, not even immersion, a complete bath. No wonder they believe they can lose it, by not doing their deeds which got it in the first place. They can be religious and keep praying to all the saints, but salvation comes through faith in Jesus Christ and His works on the Cross.
---Mark_V. on 7/31/08


I agree with the writer of the question. To believe we can lose our Salvation is to underestimate the love and power of God. God does not force Himself upon us, but that does not mean that our eternal destinies are forever a matter of of our own choosing. Our adoption into God's family is a permanent as any earthly adoption...in fact even more so.

1Jo 2:1 My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:

We do not earn salvation by any goodness of our own, nor can we lose it by wrong actions or wrong attitudes. Christ died for ALL our sins past, present and future.
---Donna66 on 7/31/08


We can obtain Salvation after Jesus died to get rid of the Original Sin.

But, God forces no one. We are not robots. It's called Freewill. Why are some of you acting as if you don't have this freewill?

Please read Proverbs. It's all about choices.

Adam and Eve even had a choice. They chose wrong.

You can lose your Salvation. You can leave Jesus at anytime before Death. It's the right Jesus gave you. Even if it a stupid, foolish and hellish choice of your.

Adam and Eve didn't know what might happen or that satan was tricking them. They were still kicked out.

You and I know that Satan is out there to keep us from Heaven. But, we can't be kept out of Heaven after we were Saved if we refuse to repent?
---Nicole on 7/29/08


If Catholics would just read the Bible they would know that a person has to believe first, receive the Spirit of God and then he is commanded to get baptize. And that baptism is not salvation---MarkV

I took your advice and read my Bible:1 Peter 3:18-21 which clearly states the Baptism now saves us. Thank you for the advice Mark.
---Johannes on 7/29/08


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Here is what the Bible says about the RCC stranglehold on it's people. 1 Timothy 4



3Forbidding to marry, and commanding to abstain from meats, which God hath created to be received with thanksgiving of them which believe and know the truth. r>4For every creature of God is good, and nothing to be refused, if it be received with thanksgiving:
---kathr4453 on 7/29/08



But here is what Jesus said about the RCC:
God blesses you when people mock you and persecute you and lie about you[a] and say all sorts of evil things against you because you are my followers. 12 Be happy about it! Be very glad! For a great reward awaits you in heaven. (Matt 5:11)
---Ruben on 7/29/08


You can shipwreck your faith. You can be deceived and devoted to destruction. But those people are not saved or they would not behave that way. Like every act of gift bestowing there are two important things, the giver gives it, and the receiver receives it. A truly saved person receives it permanently and never gives it back, and God never takes it away, so how can we lose it if we have it? Some people cannot receive it for some reason (I suggest they look at their sins). If you think you are saved but are not, how can you receive Salvation. Don't be deceived by church membership. That (apparently) does not save you.
---frances008 on 7/29/08


MarkV, nice try. You said Salvation first then Baptism. Mark 16:16 proved the order of Salvation.

Jesus would have said, Believe then your Saved. So, be baptized to show you are saved. No, He didn't say this way.

Remember Matthew 8:3-4? "I will do it. Be made clean." His leprosy was cleansed immediately. Then Jesus said to him,.."go show yourself to the priest, and offer the gift that Moses prescribed, that will be proof for them."

Matthew 28:19-20, you broke up the sentence. There is a comma behind Disciples of all Nations, baptizing: meaning how you make a disciple. Then Jesus say teach them.

Acts 9:1-30 shows this pattern. Paul is baptized to be a Disciple and then he is taught by Ananias.
---Nicole on 7/29/08


Kathr4453, where in 1 Tim, is the words RCC?

Forbid Marriage? Yes, if you are already Married, and you just tried of your spouse and want someone new. No, you can't remarry. Jesus' commandment not the RCC. Obedience.

V 3, does not say Meat. You added this word.
It states abstinence from foods that God created to be received with thanksgiving by those who believe and know the truth.
Abstinence is forever. No meat on 6 fridays isn't forever, even if you think so.
This verse sound just like John Chapter 6.
God created, thanksgiving (Euchrist- Good gift), Belief in Jesus' Words, Know the Truth. Holy Communion as the True Fresh and Blood of Jesus.

It is you or the RCC who is against Ch 6 as being real food and drink?
---Nicole on 7/29/08


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There is nothing wrong with running with Paul if you keep what he says in context remember he is quoting from the old Testament most of the time and he would never change the context of what he is quoting because he knows that a scripture out of context is a pretext.(Good work Nicole)
---Johannes on 7/29/08

God help Jesus, if Paul seems to be saying the opposite of Him.
You run with Paul every chance you get.
A clue.
Jesus died for your sins, not Paul.
---Nicole on 7/28/08

Yes, I agree.

I said IF Paul seems to quote the opposite of Jesus, people choose to follow Paul's quote before Jesus' Words.

If you have to choose, CHOOSE CHRIST.
---Nicole on 7/29/08


Nicole, the Catholic Church requires obedience to its systems. These systems go against the Bible, and thus condemn people to Hell. Some will be saved no doubt through various systems God has in place, but many of them are obedient only to men and break the Ten Commandments to obey men.
---frances008 on 7/28/08

I see what you are trying to say. But, you are wrong.

Obedience to its systems?

Jesus is a systems? Okay, call Him whatever you wish. But, yes the RCC does require obedience to Jesus.

No apologizes made.

RCC has the Authority by Jesus.
Protestants don't so you use the Bible as the only Authority.

That's not how Jesus set up the system.
---Nicole on 7/29/08


I think protestants need to follow scripture, not just talk about it.
---wayne on 7/28/08

Even through I think you are not on my side. At least you stated what we Catholics have been saying for a long time.

Maybe, hearing it from a nonCatholics, they might think about the statement.

Thank you.
---Nicole on 7/29/08


Salvation is the gift of God and as a gift that one has not earned you cannot lose it. If you cannot obtain salvation in the first place how on earth are you able to lose it.

If we are chosen in Christ, before the foundation of the world, and if there is a seed of satan and a seed of David, there are two types of persons in this world.
---alan on 7/29/08


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Wayne, you are not even in the same Christian religion as the rest of us. Mormons, Jehovah Witnessess and others are considered a cult because they do not believe in the Trinity. It is my believe that in order to be save a person needs an understanding of who Christ is. You may say the word "God" but you don't understand His nature. It is my conviction also that true salvation is built upon an understanding of the deity of Jesus Christ, that He is both God-fully God, and that God at the same time is fully God. That is the whole point of of what He did in the gospels. Jesus was never satisfied with having people accept Him as anything other than God. I think not to understand the trinity is not to understand who God is.
---Mark_V. on 7/29/08


Nicole, we"read the gospels very well, Mark 16:16 "Whosoever believes" and is baptized will be saved" He has to believe first by faith, then he gets baptized and he is then considered saved from the wrath of God.
Protestants believe in the Trinity. It is an essential of the Christain faith.

Matt. 28:19-20,"Go therefore and make desciples" the first order of business is to make desciples, followers of Christ, and the only way to do that is to bring the gospel to them, "baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit" There is not enough room to answer about Saul.
---Mark_V. on 7/29/08


Paul wrote in Phil.2:12 work out your own salvation with fear and trembling. this is not the language of self-confident assurance.Under your point of view what is there to work out? Consider Romans 5:2. We are confident in the hope of attaining glory as the sons of God. If we, having been born again in your point of view and are sure of heaven and nothing can deprive us of it , then we have no reason to hope because we know that heaven is ours. But our salvation is founded on the hope of something, says Paul.
---Johannes on 7/29/08


Nicole, Here is what the Bible says about the RCC stranglehold on it's people.


1 Timothy 4
1Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils,

2Speaking lies in hypocrisy, having their conscience seared with a hot iron,

3Forbidding to marry, and commanding to abstain from meats, which God hath created to be received with thanksgiving of them which believe and know the truth.

4For every creature of God is good, and nothing to be refused, if it be received with thanksgiving:
---kathr4453 on 7/29/08


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There is nothing wrong with running with Paul if you keep what he says in context remember he is quoting from the old Testament most of the time and he would never change the context of what he is quoting because he knows that a scripture out of context is a pretext.(Good work Nicole)
---Johannes on 7/29/08


Nicole, it was John the baptist that came before Jesus saying "repent (I EMPHASIZE REPENT) for the kingdom of heaven is at hand".... Repentance first, then you may understand the gravity of sin and the need for salvation. Again, salvation is a relationship and turning away from the former man and his will to the will of Jesus Christ. but you are correct in your reference to be baptized and saved. Baptism is just an outward expression of your new commitment/devotion to Jesus Christ the only begotten Son of God. Amen.
---Gabriel on 7/28/08


Ruben - Was not Peter in Acts1 15:7 making a reference to his ministry to Cornelius (Acts 10)and not necessarily to a broad ministry to the Gentiles?
---Lee1538 on 7/27/08


What Peter was doing was making a doctrine decision on if gentiles need to be circumcise or not...
---Ruben on 7/28/08


So assertion that Peter was the first pope in Rome cannot be validated.
---Lee1538 on 7/27/08



Let's see what scripture tell us :

Jesus builds his Church only on Peter, the Rock(Matt 16:18)
Peter is the only one that recevied the keys(Matt 16:19)
Jesus prays for Peter only (Luke 22:31)
Jesus tell Peter to "Feed my Lambs" "Tend my sheep" and "Feed my sheep"
Peter makes a decision on the succersor to Juds (Acts 1:15)
Paul spends 15 days with Peter before he goes on his way to his ministry(Gal 1:18)
---Ruben on 7/28/08


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Nicole, the Catholic Church requires obedience to its systems. These systems go against the Bible, and thus condemn people to Hell. Some will be saved no doubt through various systems God has in place, but many of them are obedient only to men and break the Ten Commandments to obey men. This is how the RCC condemns people to hell. Read the Jesuits' Oath. If good works will get no man to Heaven, bad works certainly will not, and might get them away from Biblical Salvation.
---frances008 on 7/28/08


Mortal sin is actual sin that destroys sanctifying grace and causes the supernatural death of the soul. Objectively speaking, a sinner who passes into eternity in a state of mortal sin sends himself to hell.
---kathr4453 on 7/28/08


" If you see a Christian brother or sister sinning in a way that does not lead to death, you should pray, and God will give that person life. But there is a sin that leads to death," Catholic Church got it right out of the bible....
---Ruben on 7/28/08


Kathr, Lenten Fridays are 6 Fridays, not 52 Fridays. Where are your # if taken directly from Catholic doctrines? You cut and pasted only.

The Gravity of Sins: Mortal and Venial Sin

1855 Mortal sin destroys charity in the heart of man by a Grave violation of God's law, it turns man away from God.

Venial sin allows charity to subsist, even though it offends and wound it.

1859 Mortal sin requires full knowledge and complete consent of a Grave matter.

1862 One commits venial sin when, in a LESS serious matter, he does not observe the standard prescribed by the moral law.

Your friend lied. No one goes to hell for eating meat on Friday even with full knowledge and consent. Please like a Christian if you can?
---Nicole on 7/28/08


If Catholics would just read the Bible they would know that a person has to believe first, receive the Spirit of God and then he is commanded to get baptize. And that baptism is not salvation---MarkV

If Protestants would just read the Gospels they would know Matthew 28:19-20 Baptizing them in the name of the (Trinity), teaching them to observe all that I commanded you. Baptism first.

Mark 16:16 Whoever believes and is baptized will be Saved. Note Salvation after Baptism.

Act 9:4-18 Jesus knocks Paul down, tells him to go into the city. Jesus doesn't even save him at this point. Ananias, A man of God baptized him, then Salvation.

Start with the Gospels, Jesus is first. Not Paul or his' letters.
---Nicole on 7/28/08


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ultimate betrayal of Pope abuse, one friend was told her father in hell for eating meat on Friday..of which she PAYED and lit candles for years UNTIL THE POPE CHANGED HIS MIND, declaring it is no longer a MORTAL SIN A ALL.--kathr4453

1. A lie.
2. A bad lie.
3. A laughable lie.

So your friend has a direct phone line to the Pope? Paid a lot of money by lighing candles?

Lighting candles cost 25 cents. They pay for the cost of the candle. Donation to the local Church. Holy See doesn't see this money.

The story is she paid by lighting 0.25 candles to have the Pope change a sin that never existed at all. Father in hell but no more?

Kathr, please come up with a better one. Give the name of the Pope she paid off.
---Nicole on 7/28/08


Nicole, it is the Catholic Religion that condemns people to hell---frances008

Name one person that the RCC states is in hell.
We havn't even put Hitler in Hell.

You twist my words again. I keep suggest the Catechism not over the Bible. You know that.

I suggest the Catechism to prove the lies you all keep saying that the RCC teaches.

But, you refuse, because you want to continue with the lies.

It is us who obey the Bible more then you.
Protestants have every excuse in the book or shall I say the 'Letters' not to obey Jesus.

God help Jesus, if Paul seems to be saying the opposite of Him.

You run with Paul every chance you get.

A clue.

Jesus died for your sins, not Paul.
---Nicole on 7/28/08


Mark....although I agree with you about reading scripture, what about protestants. They are big on scripture alone, and yet they dont follow it either. You call Yeshua God, you quote from Acts, what about the book of Acts saying Jesus of Nazereth, a MAN approved of by God, whom God did miricles through, God raised up. What about that....Peter never said Jesus our God. Yet christains still say Yeshua is God. Protestants say the law has been crucified, But Yeshua stated until Heaven and earth pass away not one jot or tittle will pass from the law. I think protestants need to follow scripture, not just talk about it.
---wayne on 7/28/08


According to Revelation 3:5 you CAN lose your salvation. You can lose it by unconfessed/unrepented of sins, and by not living according to the Word of God. Once you are saved you MUST live by the Word of God, NOT just live however you want and expect God to forgive that. People the Kingdom of God is at hand (near), this is the day of your salvation (tomarrow is NOT promised) - Repent and turn to God.
---Leslie on 7/28/08


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Taken directly from Catholic Doctrine:

STATES:

Lenten Fridays
On Lenten Fridays we must abstain from meat. Eating meat on a Lenten Friday can be a mortal sin.

Mortal sin is actual sin that destroys sanctifying grace and causes the supernatural death of the soul. Objectively speaking, a sinner who passes into eternity in a state of mortal sin sends himself to hell.


I have several X Catholic friends who said this was the ultimate betrayal of Pope abuse, as one friends was told her father was actually in hell for eating meat on Friday......of which she PAYED and lit candles for years UNTIL THE POPE CHANGED HIS MIND, declaring it is no longer a MORTAL SIN A ALL.

She quickly LEFT the Catholic Church.
---kathr4453 on 7/28/08


If Catholics would just read the Bible they would know that a person has to believe first, receive the Spirit of God and then he is commanded to get baptize. And that baptism is not salvation but an commandment to all who already believe.

In Acts 10:45, "And those of the circumcision who believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because the gift of the Holy Spirit had been poured out on the Gentiles also. for they heard them speak with tongues and magnify God After their conversion, Peter said, v. 47, "Can anyone forbid water, that these should not be baptized who have received the Holy Spirit just as we have?"
---Mark_V. on 7/27/08


Nicole, it is the Catholic Religion that condemns people to hell inasmuch as it encourages things that go against the Bible, God's Word. The Pope usurps the place in the heart that should be for Jesus. Catholics put the Pope before everything else. They don't go to the Bible for confirmation of the truth. Constant suggestions we should read the RCC catechism are a proof of this - the very existance of a book that could compete with the Bible in a person's daily life. There is no need for any catechism in the life of someone who has God's Word at his or her side. Again, men taking over from God.
---frances008 on 7/27/08


Ruben - Was not Peter in Acts1 15:7 making a reference to his ministry to Cornelius (Acts 10)and not necessarily to a broad ministry to the Gentiles?

We read in Galatians 2:6f

And from those who were reputed to be something ... when they saw that I had been entrusted with the gospel to the uncircumcised, just as Peter had been entrusted with the gospel to the circumcised (for he who worked through Peter for the mission to the circumcised worked through me also for the Gentiles), and when they perceived the grace that was given to me, James and Cephas and John, who were reputed to be pillars, gave to me and Barnabas the right hand of fellowship, that we should go to the Gentiles and they to the circumcised, ...
---Lee1538 on 7/27/08


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Ruben - If anyone could have qualified to be a Roman pope Paul would have more qualified since Peter's mission was more to the Gentiles.

Perhaps God had to call Paul to the ministry to the Gentiles as Peter was too head-headed & prejudice to associate with Gentiles. We saw that when Paul confronted Peter on his backsliding after the circumcision party arrived from Jerusalem.(Gal. 2:11f)

So assertion that Peter was the first pope in Rome cannot be validated.
---Lee1538 on 7/27/08


Kathr, what's so horrible is that you continue to lie on the RCC. Get a Catechism book and a clue.

It isn't a sin to eat meat on Fridays. It use to be a sacrifice offered up in memory of Jesus' death. Now, if you choose to offer up something else you may. Some as I choose not to eat meat. No sin if I do.

No money is charged to pray for others in Purgatory. How are you going to pay yourself? You are the one praying so does it make sense to charge yourself? Be logical.

Priest can't charge for Marriage and Funeral Services. What money are you speaking about? You are confused with your Church. You have to pay not us.

Protestants claim X is in Hell, not Catholics. You even condemn Catholics to Hell.
---Nicole on 7/26/08


Ruben, Peter did not MAKE UP the RULES of salvation as he went along. He OBEYED them as the Lord brought all things to him through the Holy Spirit.
Your definition is NOT Binding and Loosing according to scripture....only according the RCC definition. YIKES!!!!
---kathr4453 on 7/25/08


Kathr it is according to scripture and Yes Peter obey the holy Spirit ""My brothers, you are well aware that from early days God made his choice among you that through MY MOUTH the Gentiles would hear the word of the gospel and believe." (Acts 15:7)
---Ruben on 7/25/08


Ruben, #2

Whats horrible about RCC Binding and Loosing Theology, is through out the history of the RCC, they have come up with sins not even in the Bible. No meat on Friday etc. Then telling people they will go to hell if they sin against this RCC mandate. THEN, change their mind and sayoh we have cancelled thatyou can now eat meat on Friday. BUT what about all those families who were told their family member or friend was in hell or purgatory because of it. OH But, here was a solution.you can BUY their souls out of purgatory for x number of Dollars. Its total exploitation and mind control and how CULTS operate. Jesus the Church, does no such thing.
---kathr4453 on 7/25/08


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*****Here what Bind and loose mean! Acts 15:5 "

---Ruben on 7/24/08 ****


How convenient to say that Peter had the authority to make such decisions. Is this why the RCC makes decisions regarding sin, not eating meat on Friday, and then changing your mind, who is forgiven, how much one costs to get out of Purgatory????


Ruben, Peter did not MAKE UP the RULES of salvation as he went along. He OBEYED them as the Lord brought all things to him through the Holy Spirit.

Just as Paul, who conferred with NO MAN concerning the Gospel....but by revelation of the Holy Spirit.

Your definition is NOT Binding and Loosing according to scripture....only according the RCC definition. YIKES!!!!
---kathr4453 on 7/25/08


kathr4453, you know that Ruben was answering your question about all the horrible things you were asking about. Freewill.

Then, you changed it to Jesus' Authority given to Peter of binding and loosing.

What does one have to do with the other?

If Jesus won't stop man's free will, are you saying that the Church should stop free will?

Ruben last reponse to you was a good one. Acts 15:5
It shows the difference of setting rules for the Church and not controlling people as you claim.

You are free to join or reject Jesus' Church = Free will

You can not decide to change the official worship day of Jesus from the Resurrection day = Because you are not Peter.
---Nicole on 7/24/08


****Something call freewill or Sin...***

So then Free will or sin overrides this power to loose or bind?

But Ruben, what's the point if you are saying free will or sin is more powerful then the power God gave Peter and supposedly passed on the the Catholic Church.
---kathr4453 on 7/24/08



Here what Bind and loose mean! Acts 15:5 " The Gentile converts must be circumcised and required to follow the law of Moses. So the apostles and elders met together to resolve this issue. At the meeting, after a long discussion, Peter stood and addressed them as follows:" He made the decision that Gentiles do not need to be circumised " whatever you bind on earth will be bind in heaven"
---Ruben on 7/24/08


You can not lose salvation. You accept the gift of salvation and once it is accepted it can not be taken back. It is eternal.
---tonit on 7/24/08


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****Something call freewill or Sin...***

So then Free will or sin overrides this power to loose or bind?

But Ruben, what's the point if you are saying free will or sin is more powerful then the power God gave Peter and supposedly passed on the the Catholic Church.

I do find most interesting that the Catholic Church tried in their own strength to overpower RE: the Crusades, Inquisitions etc. So did the Catholic Church think it meant to take by force? Even that didn't work out in the end. More like a blood bath, during the reformation as well.

So when the RCC took people's free will away at that time.....they still couldn't bind or loose???Hummmm!


---kathr4453 on 7/24/08


Ruben...I never said Jesus was not God. However...God CANNOT be tempted whereas the Bible said that Jesus WAS tempted in all ways yet did not sin. So...obviously there was a part of Jesus what could be tempted.
---Holly4jc on 7/23/08


It was the human part of Jesus, derived from a sin natured Mary, who was human in all aspects, yet He overcame to obtain our victory.
---Holly4jc on 7/23/08


Holly run from your church! Or you saying the Human part of Jesus is not God?
The Word was with God, and the Word was God."

"And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us"
---Ruben on 7/23/08


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