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Suicide Due To Depression

Can anyone please tell me, what judgement does God really have on an innocent Christian man who gives into committing Suicide due to a state of Depression?

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 ---Danielle on 8/20/07
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I still stand by what the Holy Spirit revealed to me thirty years ago. You're not the only person asking the same questions. I've heard them all. The questions on these blogs are the same questions Godly people and Christians have asked since the world began. If the Bible is used as it's own reference, then your answers are still in the Bible. And since Christians know a fraction of what is revealed in the Bible, they ask the same questions. I pray that you will seek the Holy Spirit for your answers.
---Steveng on 6/6/08


Steveng,1
1 Corinthians 8:9: "But take heed lest by any means this liberty of yours become a stumblingblock to them that are weak." 1 Corinthians 8:12: "But when ye sin so against the brethren, and wound their weak conscience, ye sin against Christ." Oh, loook at that, Paul recognized that some of the brethren had a "weak concience"! If so, why does your ignorance accuse me of wrongdoing (twist parables (and verses)around)?
---Nana on 6/6/08


Steveng,2
Romans 14:1: "Him that is weak in the faith receive ye, but not to doubtful disputations." Again, another verse attesting to the fact (as oppossed to fiction), that we are not all on the same page, some are strong and some are "weak in the faith". 14:22: "Hast thou faith? have it to thyself before God. Happy is he that condemneth not himself in that thing which he alloweth."
---Nana on 6/6/08


Steveng,3
Romans 15:1: "We then that are strong ought to bear the infirmities of the weak, and not to please ourselves."
---Nana on 6/6/08


Steveng,4
Proving what I said, "The parable of the seeds tell us that we have differing strenghts", Paul advises the "strong" to "bear the infirmities of the weak". But you condemn and accuse as you frequently state "Most Christians...", wounding the conscience of brethren who are still on the "milk" stage by imposing and demanding of them a faith that not even you have!
---Nana on 6/6/08




Steveng:: The explaination lies in 2 Thessalonians 2: "The man of Lawlessness" no faith in God.mans belief in his abilities which is what satan wants to detract man away from his creator.
---Emcee on 6/5/08


Nana: "The parable of the seeds tell us that we have differing strenghts."

You're one example of how today's Christians twist parables (and verses)around. It's no wonder that Christians are as weak as the seeds that land on rocks. This is the main cause of the greating falling away from the faith in the end-times. Jesus explained the parable in the following few verses. It hasn't anything to do with strength.
---Steveng on 6/4/08


alan_of_UK: "It would however have been interesting to see your explanation..."

Do you realize how many people within the past fifty years fell away from the faith of God to having faith in medical miracles and technology? Satan is doing cartwheels on the tips of the flames of Hell because of this. I could say without reservation that science and technology is one of the main reasons of the great falling away from the faith.
---Steveng on 6/4/08


Steveng::Brain chemical scientific explaination for DESPAIR ONE of the deadliest sins in Humanity.Satan plays on ones mind if you allow him to take control.Desperate people who commit atrocities cannot see their way out of a paper bag,and are akin to a trapped animal which will take its own life rather than submit. "TRUST IN GOD" is 'not' there because there is no Belief in God.There is always a solution, God saves souls Not Satan.who has the real chemical imbalance.IMHO.
---Emcee on 6/3/08


Katrn::Thank you for your support:-) blessings.
---Emcee on 6/3/08




marcia, Gina7: "it is a brain chemical disorder that makes people committe suicide,..."

Spoken like a true worldly scientist. Any sickness, physical or mental, can be remedied by only God. Medical therapy may seem to help, but does not get rid of the root cause. The Bible explains the reasons for depression and suidide. I suggest reading the entire Bible, not just what the church teaches.
---Steveng on 6/3/08


."As long as there is LIFE there is HOPE"which DOES BRING A SOLUTION,Hope is based on Faith.Jn.14:14-JN.16:23
---Emcee on 10/2/07


OH Emcee, How Awesome a God we have! Thank you for posting that!!! God Bless!

And yes, it is spiritual warefare...the devil saying...do it...do it. Just tell the devil to take a hike! He's a LIAR and was one from the beginning!!!! His mission is to DESTROY YOU!!! Jesus came to SAVE YOU!
---kathr4453 on 10/3/07


1 Corinthians 6 19Do you not know that your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit, who is in you, whom you have received from God? You are not your own, 20you were bought at a price. Therefore honor God with your body.
How can you honor God with your body while you are defiling / killing it?
Judas committed suicide and where did it get him?
---Lisa on 10/3/07


This is so sad. :( Personally I'm just so grateful to God that I'm even alive today, and that HE understands (more than a lot of people!) the mental problems I struggle with and does not love me any less for them. I wish everyone (me included of course) was just like Jesus--what a beautiful world we would have already!
---Mary on 10/2/07


Alan of UK: That is the most horrible heartbreaking story I've ever heard out of a SO CALLED christian Church. All I can say is that is horrible.

I post what I do, because you never know who is reading these posts, and why! We need to let people know that no matter what, God sees and God knows the truth...I once had an almost similar situation NEXT
---kathr4453 on 10/2/07


Alan of UK #2

Just after getting saved I attended a church where the pastor could not keep his hands off of me. I just never felt comfortable, and felt it out of place, but it was never where anyone could see...always around a corner as though a surprise passing, etc.

I reported this to my neighbor (an elder of the Chruch)NEXT
---kathr4453 on 10/2/07


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Alan #3
His wife was home also and heard my concerns.
The pastor was privately confronted and not only denied it, but now was accusing ME of persuing him etc, etc. My husband was not saved or go to church with me, that also put me in a vulnerable position. THe PAstor was an up and coming politician too in teh community...NEXT
---kathr4453 on 10/2/07


Alan #4
Got in really good with the business men, Mayor etc, and was ranked the highest in SAVED souls in the denomination ( yep...tehy keep core) Many were the same peoplegtting saved over and over kind of thing too.

Well he did/said so much evil, and I couldn't tell anyone...even my husband. I wanted my husband saved...not to hate Christianity. Next
---kathr4453 on 10/2/07


alan #5
This went on for 7 years. And yes, I became so depressed, and having a history of depression and suicide, was even more concerning. I fought that battle AFTER I was saved more than b/4 I got saved. But I kept reading scripture and knew the Lord was trying to tell me something......HOLD ON!
Next
---kathr4453 on 10/2/07


Alan #6, Well, with all his big success, swindling old ladies out of their money for his *Community Councelling Center*, in came the complaints...from other women. BINGO!

Sometimes God trusts us to CARRY a burden because He has a much bigger plan and purpose than we understand.

I grew tremendously those 7 years....jumped out of those ashes of death to a Life In Christ I never knew existed. Truly Baptized in the Fire, but ended up with the riches in Christ Jesus. next
---kathr4453 on 10/2/07


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Alan and anyone listening. God KNOWS and God SEES....and you have to trust in Him and be patient to let HIM do far beyond anything we could do. Don't punish yourself for someone elses evil....and don't get angry with God for trusting YOU to carry a burden for Him.

***Psalms 37 - spoke to my heart, and I believed what the Lord was saying...He brought it to pass!!!

God Bless!!
---kathr4453 on 10/2/07


Despair is the total loss of Hope which brings on Depression in which a person convinces themselves there is no way out of the situation caused by several single or Joint happenings infirmities or repeated evil insinuations, where even Divine Providence is unable to Help.This way of thinking is WRONG Satan has a sure victory for such as these as Suicide is not a solution to a problem."As long as there is LIFE there is HOPE"which DOES BRING A SOLUTION,Hope is based on Faith.Jn.14:14-JN.16:23
---Emcee on 10/2/07


In answer to you question ... Yes, and with Christian families.
And then there was the church which said to one of them "You must have asked for it, since your rapists were elders, they would not have attacked you unless you provoked them to do so"
---alan_of_UK on 10/2/07


Strongaxe) I am very aware that many who think that they are Christian really are not. That was not my point to stevenj. My point in this blog was the cold message he gives others who may not be fortunate in recieving healing that he so discribes as so simplified. Millions of people who do love the lord and who are Christians die yearly of disease, famine and catastrophy.:)
---splaa6685 on 10/2/07


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God knows how was with person and spirits that overpowered him.If we dont have peace because somebody did it, we can give our worries to God and invite Him in place of our worries.He knows and we can make conclusions, but we can make conclusion that He understand humans suffering and our worries. We musnt take our lifes, but if somebody did it, I am giving this issue to God.
---judita on 10/2/07


Alan of UK, Please re-read my post. Were these Girls Christians or not....that was the point I was making.

If a Christian kills themself over life's horrible issues, what hope are we giving to a lost world without hope? That we don't have any either???


Many Christians find themselves in situations of being lied about and shamed and killed...Just ask Jesus!!!

He rose up out of death to resurrection life, as do we, even NOW IN CHRIST! David too rose above his circumstances!
---kathr4453 on 10/2/07


"What message are we leaving those who don't know the Lord if we kill ourselves,when ALL suffer LIFE ISSUES, Christians and Non Christians..
---kathr4453 on 10/1/07"
Seems like you just answered your question, "ALL suffer LIFE ISSUES"
so who could single out another? What are we to make of Christians?
Are they all like lead toy soldiers cloned from the same mold? Not likely.
---Nana on 10/2/07


The parable of the seeds tell us that we have differing strenghts.
Furthermore are we to pretend that for example, Christians are exempt
from Alzheimer's Disease? Should Christians pretend that if they get run
over by an 18 wheeler, they will be unscaled? Are Christians excempt
from despair, we only hope. SUICIDE? We ALL suffer IT, in one way
or another.
---Nana on 10/2/07


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Kathr ... there ARE other circumstances causing people tom get depression.
There were girls recently in this country who had been raped, who became severely depressed because no-one would accept their story, and committed suicide because of the shame heaped upon them.
(Later it was found their complaint was fully justified)
---alan_of_UK on 10/1/07


Matthew ... Thank you for supporting my point
---alan_of_UK on 10/1/07


**Depression tends to happen when people find themselves in a bad place,and can't find any way out of that place. Thus, it is also part of the grieving process, when you realize someone is gone and there is no way they can come back."**


I can understand an unsaved person possibly killing themselves under these circumstances,but a Christian????

What message are we leaving those who don't know the Lord if we kill ourselves,when ALL suffer LIFE ISSUES, Christians and Non Christians..
---kathr4453 on 10/1/07


#2

I think we all need to go back and read the Book of Job. And Yes, Job was a real person, who in his darkest moments, said.....Thou He slay me....yet will I TRUST in Him.

We all have the *Friends of Job* in our lives, but Check out Chapters 38 to the end...God was angry with them for bad advice!!!!
---kathr4453 on 10/1/07


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"It would however have been interesting to see your explanation of why people in the old days used to die of polio whereas today they generally do not."

The gift of medicine, for medicine is a gift from God. Divine healings should always be seeked, but I say the truth here, sometimes God replies to asking for a healing "Go see a doctor."
---Matthew_from_LA on 10/1/07


Yes Steveng ... at time for everything ... a time to answer questions and a time to avoid doing so. But by choosing the latter, you provide your answer.
It would however have been interesting to see your explanation of why people in the old days used to die of polio whereas today they generally do not
---alan_of_UK on 9/30/07


Yes Steveng ... .
Splaa 6685 is quite right ... you could be a real discouragement to anyone condidering the Christian faith, and an insult to any whose loved ones have died from illness.
This is a further question which you may condescend to answer ... Where in scripture did Christ or any of the apostles promise us that believers would be free of pain illness or disability?
---alan_of_UK on 9/30/07


splaa6685: "Stephenj)You say that many who think they are Christian are not? Your heart may turn to stone. How can you calously say these things?"

Jesus said, "Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven,..."
---Steveng on 9/30/07


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splaa6685:

Yes, there are people who claim to be Christian, but aren't really.

At the final judgment, many will come before Jesus and say "didn't we prophesy and do great works in your name?" and Jesus will say "Get away from me, I never knew you!"

Many have a wrong idea of what it means to be Christian - either because of apostasy (they turned from the truth) or heresy (somebody taught them lies). Unfortunately, one often can't tell for sure until one is dead.
---StrongAxe on 9/30/07


There is a time for everything. A time to reason and a time to keep from reasoning. It's time to keep from reasoning not because I have been defeated, but because of your lack of trust in God to keep you healthy and that if anyone would poison you, He whould not allow it to harm you. I pray that God will open your eyes to find the true power of God.
---Steveng on 9/29/07


Stephenj)You say that many who think they are Christian are not? Your heart may turn to stone. How can you calously say these things? It is people like you who discourage sick people who seek healing but do not recieve it and so give up on God. It is people like you who are stumbling blocks to those who need compasion and love rather than a MAN who READ THE WHOLE BIBLE. Congratulations. You know as much as JESUS? Watch out for you are a discouragement to many and have condemned many already.Repent.
---splaa6685 on 9/29/07


StevenG ...# 5 StevenG ... a few questions
Have you had polio? Have you heard the name Salk?
Why do so many soldiers survive severe wounds ... ever heard of Fleming?
How do old people regain the power to walk ... ever heard of titanium?
Does the name Barnard mean anything to you?
Would you be a blood or organ donor?
Have any of your relatives died after perforation of the appendix?
---alan_of_UK on 9/29/07


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StevenG ...# 1
You have not addressed the points I made.
I would place more credibility in your comments and accusations of my lach of trust in god, if yuo deigned to answer what i said.
---alan_of_UK on 9/29/07


StevenG ...# 1
You have not addressed the points I made.
I would place more credibility in your comments and accusations of my lach of trust in god, if yuo deigned to answer what i said.
---alan_of_UK on 9/29/07


StevenG ...# 2 I wondwer whether you have ever consulted a doctor?
What would you do if yuo suffered cancer, or a fractured leg, or excema, or ... or ... ?
---alan_of_UK on 9/29/07


StevenG ...# 3 Have you ever suffered deep clinical depression?
Have you ever been suddenly without warning, and driven byn outside forces, at a point where yuo just cannot think, and have lost all recognition that there is a God?
How then do you call upon God?
---alan_of_UK on 9/29/07


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StevenG ...# 4 Can you please tell us what illnesses God has healed in you?
Have you suffered from diabetes, piles' broken leg, athletes foot cancer, heart defect, injury, kidney malfunction?
---alan_of_UK on 9/29/07


"Depression tends to happen when people find themselves in a bad place, and can't find any way out of that place. Thus, it is also part of the grieving process, when you realize someone is gone and there is no way they can come back."

Regular depression that everyone experiences, yes. Clinical depression's attacks can happen randomly and for no reason.
---Matthew_from_LA on 9/29/07


Well steveng, I sure hope you never need an aspirin, or worse, an operation to save your life. Your words are beautiful, but sometimes we need medicine and doctors.
---sue on 9/29/07


Depression tends to happen when people find themselves in a bad place, and can't find any way out of that place. Thus, it is also part of the grieving process, when you realize someone is gone and there is no way they can come back.

As alan_of_UK points out, it is much more often the victims of crimes who find themselves in such a situation. This is a result of the sins of others, not of their own sins.
---StrongAxe on 9/29/07


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You people have just proven my point...

You know of God, but deny his power. If God can rearrange the chemicals in the dirt to create man, He can surely cure ANY sickness. Read the many miracles that God and Jesus performed including bringing the dead back to life. Read about the sicknesses that Satan brought unto Job. If your god cannot heal diabetes, depression, lepresy, or any other malfucntioning of the body, then your god is not the God of Abraham, Jacob, and Isaac.
---Steveng on 9/28/07


Your trust in God is very weak or nonexistant.

If God created the doctors, then way is it that they make 60% of the mistakes? If medicine is from God, then why is it that they have side affects worse than the cure for what ails you? Doctors are just people, but don't have the healing power of God. You depend too much on your science and technology as your god. Wasn't Jesus the person who said that we are able to perform greater miracles than He?
---Steveng on 9/28/07


alan_of_UK: "Thank you for enlightening us that all depression is caused by guilt.
What arrant nonsense!"

Take off your rose-colored glasses and take a look around you. Take a look what is happpening in the world. Ever since the 1960s, the world has been progessively getting worse and worse, faster and faster. The more we turn our backs on God the worse the world becomes. People say they are Christian, but in reality there are very few of them.
---Steveng on 9/28/07


Top Ten Myths about Mental Illness



1. Psychiatric disorders are not true medical illnesses.


2. People with a severe mental illness are usually dangerous and violent.

3. Mental illness is the result of bad parenting

4. People who are depressed could just snap out of it if they tried hard enough.
---Trish9863 on 9/28/07


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5. Schizophrenia means split personality, and there is no way to control it.

6. Depression is a normal part of the aging process

7. Kids don't get depressed--their problems are just part of growing up.

8. If you have a mental illness, you can will it away.

9. Addiction is a lifestyle choice and shows a lack of willpower.

10. Electroconvulsive therapy (ECT), formerly called "shock treatment," is painful and barbaric.
---Trish9863 on 9/28/07


StevenG ... Thank you for enlightening us that all depression is caused by guilt.
What arrant nonsense!
I've not known many theives that have become depresseed, but I do know that some victims of thieves have suffered depression.
Similarly it is not the paedophiles & rapists who get depressed(at least not until they are caught) but their victims.
---alan_of_UK on 9/28/07


StevenG and Rebecca ... God does not always heal, and when he does he does noy always use apparently inexplicable miracles. Do you not realise that our brains are miracles and the discoveries of doctors are miracles.
Don't you realise that God can deliver miracles through men?
It is YOU who limits God's power, by refusing to allow that He has given us the doctors and psychiatrists.
---alan_of_UK on 9/28/07


Steveng: (1)

While it's true that some thoughts can affect brain chemistry, that is by no means always the case. The body is a very complicated system, which can sometiems malfunction, in a wide variety of ways.

People with malfunctioning body chemistries can experience a whole series of physical and mental ailments, many of which can be cured by fixing the blood chemistry.
---StrongAxe on 9/28/07


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Steveng: (2)

Diabetics have uncontrolled blood sugar, that can be helped by good sugar control and insulin. Manic/depressives have electrolyte imbalances that can be caused by lithium salts. Some such imbalances may be self-induced, but others can happen through circumstances beyond our control.

I find that my mood tends to plummet regularly when I don't eat properly. This is not a matter of bad thinking, but of imbalanced blood sugars, a purely physical thing, which can be cured by eating.
---StrongAxe on 9/28/07


Whisper:

Actually, Judas purchased a field, fell, and burst his guts (Acts 1:17-19) and/or hung himself (Matthew 27:3-8). No mention of fire.

Also, there is no mention of any kind of spiritual condemnation of the suicide after the fact in either case. (In fact, in Matthew 27:3 it says that Judas had repented).
---StrongAxe on 9/28/07


Stepheng:

I said "I HAVE read the entire Bible - several times. ... I don't recall any in which anyone actually killed himself, and/or was subsequently condemned for doing so."

You said "The reason is that you read the Bible with your mind, not with the heart."

Fine. Please cite CHAPTER AND VERSE where somebody DID commit suicide and was condemned. I'm always willing to be enlightened.
---StrongAxe on 9/28/07


Stepheng:

Sure, Jesus can move mountains, cure cancer, or cure depression. The question is: How often does he actually do these things? Do you know any churches where the members are all 100% free of all physical and mental illnesses? If not, people still need to find ways of dealing with these problems themselves. Even Jesus once used medicine to cure blindness (spit and touch in Mark 8:22-25) instead of just praying it away.
---StrongAxe on 9/28/07


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Matthew_from_LA:

Very true. Years ago I saw a poster that said:

"'Cancer? Snap out of it. It's all in your head'.
Imagine if we treated people with physical illnesses like we treat people with mental illnesses"

Telling people that mental problems "are in their head" and they should be able to get over them by "right thinking" is just as patronizing as telling someone with cancer to "pray it away" and if he can't, he doesn't have enough faith.
---StrongAxe on 9/28/07


Steveng, I DO see and understand what you're saying, still, please don't discount brain illnesses as one possible reason many of us suffer. I have Tourettes, which causes it's own problems, in addition to anxiety disorder that I've had ALL MY LIFE, even as a young child. I thank God for good and godly psychiatrists and counselors, and for the minds God gave some people to create good medicines. :)
---Mary on 9/27/07


How ill is ill or how hurting is hurting, and how depressed is depressed, God will judge. God judges whether the person was in a rational sound mind, and whether they had the ability or not to prevent the death.
---Eloy on 9/28/07


Trish9863, Matthew, alan, etc: The question is, "What causes the chemical unbalance?"

Our thoughts. If a thief steals and he knows it's wrong, it creates conflict in the mind which results in fear. Although fear is only a thought, it can most likely become physical from simply sweating to committing suicide.

Godly men in the Bible had suicidal tendencies caused by a separation from God - guilt, sin, hopelessness, personal pressure, etc.
---Steveng on 9/27/07


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Trish9863, Matthew, alan, etc: II...

Cain's depression was due to guilt (Gen4:6-7).

David's depression was due to his sin of adultry (Psalms32:3-4).

The way out of depression is confession and seeking God's forgiveness (Psalms32and51, Isa40, 2Corinth4). Paul went through a hundred-fold more trouble than most of you in a lifetime (2Corinth11:23-28), but was sustained by God's grace.
---Steveng on 9/27/07


Trish9863, Matthew, alan, etc: III...

In your scientific explanation of depression using worldly knowledge, you must also apply cause and effect. What causes these chemical unbalances? It's all in your thoughts.
---Steveng on 9/27/07


The answer to this question is NO. Nobody can tell you what judgement God will have on an innocent Christian man who committes suicide. Nobody but God. Ask God yourself and see what He says. He is the only one who will judge, He will judge all. Suicides and non-suicides, it doesn't matter, He will decide. NObdy else.
---sue on 9/27/07


People shouldn't confuse clinical depression with demonic torment. There is a difference. Not everyone who has thoughts of committing suicide have it because of a demon. The feelings of depression are so unnatural there is no way to explain it. Only when one goes through it can they understand, and no being depressed isn't the same as having severe clinical depression. Don't you ever tell someone who suffers from severe clinical depression "we all get depressed" it's an insult.
---Matthew_from_LA on 9/27/07


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Alan: Save your breath in this discussion. Ignorance seems to run rampant when the "experts" on mental health start spouting off how they are certain that all depression will be cured by God.

You and I both understand clinical depression from having been through it. We have empathy. These "experts" here lack emtpathy and understanding. I wouldn't waste any more time trying to educate them.
---Trish9863 on 9/27/07


Alan: It all starts in the mind. Satan attacks the mind of people. He knows our weak points. He attacks someone when their guard is down. A chemical thing? And not an attack? The bible calls it lunatics or epilepsy. As stated in Mark 4:24, 9:17-26. Not all sickness is Satan's doings, but anyone who takes their own life, Satan had a hand in that.
---Rebecca_D on 9/27/07


alan_of_UK: "And it is chemical thing, not some satanic attack which can be avoided by prayer."

If Jesus calmed the storm, turned water into wine, cured sickness, brought people back to life, I'm sure that He can cure depression. Your faith is in science and technology. You may believe in God, but you deny his power. God controls atoms, molecules, chemicals to where He can heal the body. Godly men of the Bible have had thoughts of suicide. How does the Bible say what the causes are?
---Steveng on 9/26/07


StrongAxe: "I HAVE read the entire Bible - several times. There are several instances of great men of God despairing unto death. But I don't recall any in which anyone actually killed himself, and/or was subsequently condemned for doing so."

The reason is that you read the Bible with your mind, not with the heart. You have understood the Bible using worldy knowledge, not with spiritual knowledge. Next time, read from the heart, not from the mind.
---Steveng on 9/26/07


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Rebeca ... Once again you show you do not understanhd what hapenes to other people, even if it did not happen tp you.
It is nothing to do with stopping goinfg to church.
In severe clinical depression, the person loses all ratiohal though reasoning and understanding.
And it is chemical thing, not some satanic attack which can be avoided by prayer.
---alan_of_UK on 9/26/07


When a person whom is in their right mind, recieves the Lord as their personal Savior. They are saved. Later on down the line that person starts getting depressed, misses church, and then stops going. If that person commits suicide for whatever reason, God will hold that person responsible. I don't care who you are what you've been through with. God is God above all, who can heal anyone of anything, but all they gotta do is ASK. God helps those whom helps themselves.
---Rebecca_D on 9/26/07


That would be Judas Iscariot when he threw himself into the fire and commited suicide.
---Whisper on 9/26/07


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