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Out Of Wedlocks Go To Heaven

Yesterday while witnessing a lady told me, no! I cannot go to heaven because I've had two children out of wedlock. Background was very Pentecoastal she said. Please give your opinion of a statement of this nature.

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 ---Mima on 8/20/07
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Her opinion is possibly held in ignorance reading and interpreting it to means you cannot go to heaven. I've heard it said of illegitimate children but not a saved person.

Deu 23:2 A bastard shall not enter into the congregation of the LORD, even to his tenth generation shall he not enter into the congregation of the LORD.

You know how it go's people that can't be bothered to guard their mouths or bridle their tongues if only not to insult, but to judge as if they themselves are righteous.Pray for her and ask God to bless her.
---Carla on 1/30/10


Exzucuh, did you not bring out the Council of Nicea to make your point? You stated that is when the Trinity came out or was called to believe. And you are wrong. I have the council of Nicea right in front of me. The Church faced a new heresy cloaked in a different form of "Monarchianism." Called "dynamic monarchianism"
Arius was the guy. What was the main point?
Arius apppeled to the Council on some biblical text that refer to Christ as "begotten" and the "the first born of all creation." In biblical terms, he argued, to begotten is to have a beginning in time and not eternal, If not eternal, then he cannot be God."
That is your arguement also. Just like Arius.
---MarkV. on 1/14/10


Exzucuh #2 You asked me to give you history or facts and I gave to you what happened at the Council of Nicea. You gave a big answer as to what you believe but never did you say that Jesus was God. In fact you avoid saying it because you also think as some here on line do, that he is not Eternal. My answer should not surprise you. And you don't have to answer me either. I can live with that. But if you are going to discuss the Trinity and what took place in time through the Councils you have to take what happened. Jesus was not adopted into the godhead by virtue of his perfect obedience by which he demonstrated his "Oness" with the Father. The Council affirmed tha the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit were coeternal and coessential.
---MarkV. on 1/14/10


Okay Markv Now I know you are a heretic, and a gainsayer you have openly blasphemed against the truth. I will not address you any longer or have any thing to do with you. I will contradict any thing you say against Jesus and his word but I do not recognize you as Christian. I feel sorry for you. Your pride exalts itself above God's word. But you are a gainsayer And I pray God helps you before you destroy yourself. I hope you are just an ignorant man God does have mercy on ignorance in some cases. But you truly say you know and Jesus said if you say you know you are accountable.
---exzucuh on 1/14/10


Exzucuh, yes, so far what you have stated is not true. They are teachings from Arius the heretic. Your statement about Cornelius is wrong. Like many other passages you quote out of context. No where is the word "Warned" in verse Acts 10:22. I was going to say you might have the New World Translation interpretation but even they have "Divine instructions". What you are preaching is not that Jesus is God, but the very same thing the heretic Arius had been preaching who was influenced by the teachings of Paul of Samosata and Lucian of Antioch. That is why they called those man heretics, when they introduced what is called "Dynamic Monachianism" You are doing the same as they.
---MarkV. on 1/14/10




Markv I believe that the Father God the one true God sent his Son Jesus Christ to die for the sins of the world. The Holy Spirit of God is Gods Spirit and the Son of God and the Father are one in the Holy Spirit and that the Father and the Son are one with me through the Holy Spirit and also one with the whole Body of Christ. I believe that Jesus is the high priest of the Church and the only way to God the Father. That he is synonymous with God and his name is above every name and I have access to the Father and the Holy Spirit through the name of Jesus.

Now all that is the word of God and I believe in that but there is no trinity in the word of God. If you discredit me for what I believe then prove I do not believe the word of God.
---exzucuh on 1/14/10


Markv Do you think not believing in the trinity automatically makes what a person preaches wrong? I do not believe what is not in the word of God. You will find that there is nothing that you quote from the word that I will not agree with. But if you add to it or take away from it, I will not agree. Some men Got together at the council of Nicaea and complied their thoughts on who they thought God was. And Decreed that every christian had to believe on that doctrine or be cast out of the church. The trinity doctrine has enough truth to conceal the lies that are hidden in it. And I will never support a lie that looks like the truth.
---exzucuh on 1/14/10


---MarkV. on 1/14/10 The bible says he was warned of God you say he was not. I am amazed at the blindness of so many on this christianet. And their willingness to blaspheme the word of God. A person who's days upon the earth are numbered by God himself is taking a very big chance by playing such games. To truly believe in God is proved by living by every word that comes out of his mouth. And confessing what the bible says is true.
---exzucuh on 1/14/10


Kathr, you believed a lie. No where did the story of Cornelius state he was been warned. In fact because he believed in God, for fearing Him and praying to Him and when the Angel of the Lord spoke to him, he recognized Him as Lord when he said, "What is it Lord" His prayers and alms came up for a memorial before God. And God heard his prayers. Verse 22 does not say God warned him. "And they said, "Cornelius the centurion, a just man, one who fears God and has a good reputation among all the nations of the Jews, was Divinely instructed by a Holy Angel to summon you to his house to hear words from you" In fact God was going to reward him by giving him the Holy Spirit after hearing the gospel of Jesus.
---MarkV. on 1/14/10


MarkV, you are wrong here and EX is correct. Good/devout men don't go to heaven. Not even Paul who was probably more devout than Cornelius was!

---kathr4453 on 1/13/10

I should correct, Not even Paul before his conversion! I can't imagine anyone more DEVOUT!

Yet, after Paul's conversion was Paul sent to already DEVOUT Gentiles? Hardly! Paul was sent to heathen gentiles..sinners who probably never prayed a day in their life!

Jesus DID NOT come to save the already Righteous, but SINNERS!!!
---kathr4453 on 1/13/10




going to heaven depends upon whether a person is saved and living godly, and not whether a person had sins in their past. Now if you are continuing to sin in this way, then the lady would be correct because sinners are not permitted into sinless heaven.
---Eloy on 1/13/10


Acts 10:3-5 He saw in a vision evidently
about the ninth hour of the day
-->an angel<-- of God
coming in to him, and saying unto him, Cornelius. And when he looked on him, he was afraid, and said, What is it, Lord? And he said unto him, Thy prayers and thine alms are come up for a memorial before God. And now

-->send men to Joppa, and call for one Simon, whose surname is Peter:<--
---exzucuh on 1/13/10


Acts 10:22 And they said, Cornelius the centurion, a just man, and one that feareth God, and of good report among all the nation of the Jews,

-->was warned from God by an holy angel<--
to send for thee into his house,

and to hear words of thee.

Acts 11:14 Who shall tell thee words, whereby thou and all thy house shall be saved.

Acts 10:48 And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord.
---exzucuh on 1/13/10


Exzucuh, I hate to disagree with you but the story you gave of Cornelius was very bad. ----The reality of this truth was taking on new dimensions for Peter.
---MarkV. on 1/13/10


MarkV, you are wrong here and EX is correct. Good/devout men don't go to heaven. Not even Paul who was probably more devout than Cornelius was!

ONLY forgiven SINNERS do! Cornelius needed to hear the Gospel Peter presented that Cornelius and his family were sinners that needed forgiveness!

Again, Cornelius represents that all men are NOT totally DEPRAVED. And because you cannot see that, you PRESUME Cornelius was already saved, and it was just an exercise for Peter? WRONG!!!
---kathr4453 on 1/13/10


\\ Glad I have the gift of prophecy.
---catherine on 1/9/10\\

Can't prove it by me on the basis of your postings here.
---Cluny on 1/13/10


Exzucuh, I hate to disagree with you but the story you gave of Cornelius was very bad. That is not what happened. God never warned him about anything. That is rediculous. He was a devout man and one who feared God with all his household, who gave alms generously to the people, who even prayed to God always. Does that constitute someone who is an unbeliever? He believed in God, not believed God. What this story is about is about Gentiles receiving the Holy Spirit together with the Jews after receiving the gospel of Jesus. 10:34 states, "God shows no partiality" Taught in both the O.t. (Deut. 10:17, 2 Chr. 19:7, Job 34:19) and N.T. (Rom. 2:11, 3:29,30, James 2:1) The reality of this truth was taking on new dimensions for Peter.
---MarkV. on 1/13/10


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---mima on 1/8/10 When there is no one to disciple someone, God makes a way. Paul was rejected by the Church and could receive no discipleship. He said he received the message he preached by being translated to the third heaven and his Gospel given to him by the lord. I bounced around from many denominations until I learned to hear the Holy Spirit. The rhema spoken word of the Holy Spirit. This is what Jesus meant by, you need no man to teach you the Holy Spirit will be your teacher. People only need discipleship until they can hear the Holy Spirit for themselves. But sometimes they can get their voices mixed up
And need correction. That is why we have the written word.
---exzucuh on 1/10/10


Glad I have the gift of prophecy.
---catherine on 1/9/10


Mark E, you are perfectly correct. When someone comes to the Lord they do not know much. They understand the gospel thruth for salvation, but don't know how to study, where to begin, how to pray before studying and so forth. On one case I stayed with a brother working with me on roofs units for AC and everyday we would study when we had time. Many do as you said, they just forget about them. And they just go to Church but what they need is a one on one study with someone. And go to Bible classes. Until they are ready to go on their own. They already have the hunger, now they need how to go about witnessing to others. That is the work of the Holy Spirit to equip us to witness.
---MarkV. on 1/9/10


The last Commandment Jesus made before he ascended was:
Matthew 28:19 Go ye therefore, and ..teach..
...(matheteuo)...( make disciples)... all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:

WE are commanded to make disciples and teach them the to live and obey the Gospel.
---exzucuh on 1/8/10


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To ---Mark_Eaton, I have great admiration for you and your ministry as to what I know from your postings.
What is a disciple? Here's a good working definition: A disciple is someone called to walk with Christ, equipped to live like Christ, and sent to work for Christ. While I am in favor of making disciples but I also wonder who made a disciple of the eunch after Philip was cauht away? Someone did(maybe the Holy Spirit?) because there was a large church among the Ethiopian people. I have not made contact with this lady since I witnessed to her. I often take a talking to from church people because I do not make disciples. My position is that I'm dependent upon the Holy Spirit for salvations and then making disciples of whom he will.
---mima on 1/8/10


People go to hell for one reason They will not obey the Gospel. The Bible says All are condemned to hell because of Adams sin. Makes no difference if you live a good life give to the poor ect.

Ac 10:22 And they said, Cornelius the centurion, a just man, and one that feareth God, and of good report among all the nation of the Jews, was warned from God by an holy angel to send for thee into his
house, and to hear words of thee.

Even though Cornelius was a Good man he and his house was going to hell. The angel warned him to send for Peter who would tell him how to be saved. Peter preached the Gospel to him and he believed and obeyed.
---exzucuh on 1/8/10


Mima:

As I read your post about witnessing to this lady in the car, it reminds me of why I am involved in the ministry of making disciples. Perhaps you can understand what I mean after reading this.

We have in the USA become so fixated on getting people saved that we have forgotten about making disciples of them. So many people tell me that they were saved at some big rally but floundered for years afterwards. No one took the time to make a disciple out of them. This is what I do. I come along to a few brothers recently saved, and work with them for a year and help them understand the Bible, doctrine, and their own faith.

Have you ever followed up with this woman to see if she is growing in her walk with Christ?
---Mark_Eaton on 1/8/10


The statement by Eloy sounds good but is misleading.
The Bible says in Romans 8:1,"There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit."
The determining factor to escape condemnation is being in Christ Jesus. Not in repenting. A person in Christ cannot come under condemnation whether or not they repent of their sin!!!!!
---mima on 1/8/10


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As I am struggling with hypocrisy in faith, what I read you saying is that it is ok to backslide and to do what I want that suits the moment as long as I repent. Is Having children out of wedlock any less of a sin than theft of murder?? Is a sin not a sin?
---Steve on 1/8/10


The woman is presuming that you have not repented of that sin, but if you have repented of that sin, then there is no longer any condemnation of that sin. And since the women does not know your life, she is unqualified to judge your life.
---Eloy on 11/1/09


Alan, you are right. Whomever taught her to believe that is the one who attempted the discrediting. As to your question, I'm not sure why this is so, but I wish they'd cut it out.

Mima, I'm glad the mother prayed with you. Her friend may not have prayed at that exact moment, but you have planted a seed and I'm confident that both of them (and the woman's children) are one step closer to Him because of how you allowed Him to work through you.
---AlwaysOn on 11/2/09


Reviving this blog jogged my memory. As I remember this lady's parents had told her that she was going to hell because of having these children out of wedlock. After witnessing to her a few moments(she had just rolled down her window and had stayed seated in a car) she did pray with me and ask for her salvation. The man who was with her did not pray with me, in fact turned me down.
This witnessing came about because my friend and I were giving away popcorn in a public park. And she had stopped to get her children some popcorn.
---mima on 11/1/09


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AlwaysOn ... The person who "just discredited the sacrifice that the Messiah made on our behalf" was not this mother, but whoever told her that "she is not forgiven by the cross"

Why is sexual sin treated by so many Christians as the great unforgiveable? God does not grade sin.
---alan8566_of_uk on 11/1/09


My opinion is that this woman just discredited the sacrifice that the Messiah made on our behalf. She is essentially saying that she is not forgiven by the cross. I wonder what her response would be if asked, "So, then, our Savior died in vain? He didn't "really" save us after all?"

I hope you offered her the truth and I pray that her heart is open to receiving it. It is sad that some are taught to believe otherwise.
---AlwaysOn on 10/31/09


God is able to forgive.
---will on 10/31/09


I've not heard anyone condemned for children born out of wedlock, except that they could not hold an office in a holiness church. That seems very extreme and more of shame on the mother's part than actual fact. Eradicating doctrinal error from fundamental holiness pentecostals often requires deprogramming, ingrained traditions can be cultish and not biblical.
---Jenny on 6/5/08


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King David had a child out of wedlock and he's in Heaven today. (Or, at least, he WILL BE in Heaven someday!: for those of you who don't believe that a Saint goes directly to Heaven at death!) :-)
---Gordon on 9/26/07


Mary became pregnant out of wedlock, we all believe Jesus and Mary are in heaven. Probably the church in that day gave her a hard time too.
---yoshin on 8/21/07
Go back and read the part where joseph married Mary and was not 'with' her till after Jesus was born.

I'm pentecostal and we have as much a problem with pregnancies as the rest of you. Remind her that she did a righteous thing by bringing her children into the world. Let her sit with that for a start.
Then remind her about David.
---Andrea on 8/23/07


No one but God knows who is going to heaven, but Catholics believe you will not go to heaven if you die in a state of mortal sin. (not in friendship with God). The Bible says that fornicators will not enter the Kingdom of God as well as many others so the key is to repent and change your life. If you did something in the past that was wrong that doesnt mean you cant enter heaven. Everyone has sinned and I'm sure this doesnt exclude the judgemental Pentecostal.
---janet on 8/22/07


I am constantly amazed at what practical, thinking Christians listen to. All you heard was simply someone who doesn't understand one thing about grace, about 1John 1:9, nor about mercy. You have simply listened to someone who loves legalism more than Christ.
---Tony on 8/22/07


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Forget Mary. You had better know that Jesus is in Heaven less you DIE in your SINS. Jesus is also here on earth you better believe that less you DIE in your Sins.
---catherine on 8/21/07


Mima, that pentecostal woman forgets that Jesus is going to judge you, not her. In fact, He won't have her beside Him seeking her input when He judges you. He won't even have a Bible in His hands and use it when He judges you.

Ask Jesus to reveal to you if you've sinned, and then forgiveness. Jesus is such a better judge than that woman!!
---Sheila on 8/21/07


Mary became pregnant out of wedlock, we all believe Jesus and Mary are in heaven. Probably the church in that day gave her a hard time too.
---yoshin on 8/21/07


You said I've had two children out of wedlock have you read Corinthians 7?. If you married after this forget this lie. If not you would be out of Gods plan in an unrepented state and because of this act and your children would be unholy. But as long as you are saved all things are passed away behold All things are new. You are A Brand New creation. In effect a (Spiritual Virgin). my words!
---Carla5754 on 8/21/07


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Lady volunteered been very Pentecostal. I never ask persons religious preference when I am witnessing. Most people understand that the Pentecostal religion has a punishing God. Grace takes a backseat in that religion because each person in that religion expressly believes they must keep themselves. And that is the reason I think she said what she did to me.
---Mima on 8/21/07


John 4:16-18 (Woman at the Well):
"16 Jesus saith unto her, Go, call thy husband, and come hither."
"17 The woman answered and said, I have no husband. Jesus said unto her, Thou hast well said, I have no husband"
"18 For thou hast had five husbands, and he whom thou now hast is not thy husband: in that saidst thou truly."

No condemnation here. None for the woman taken in adultery. None for the prostitutes Jesus often ate with. He forgave them. Why can't we?
---Mark on 8/21/07


Susie:
The problem here is that many churches (Pentecostal holiness churches in particular) have very strict behavioral codes - these tend to heap all kinds of new laws on top of Christianity that turn it into a new kind of Phariseeism. The Ten Commandments might as well be Thou Shalt Not Smoke. Thou Shalt Not Drink. Thou Shalt Not See Movies. Thou Shalt Not Dance. (etc.) Such environments can be toxic, because they put people back under the condemnation of law again.
---Mark on 8/21/07


"Background was very Pentecoastal she said."

There are many people living in sin today whose background is all denominations. Because she has a background in pentecostalism doesn't make her any more a sinner than someone with a Baptist background. If she has a pentecostal background then she knows she is not living a Christian life and will be going to hell unless she repents and gets born again.
---Susie on 8/20/07


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If the lady is still with the father of the two children, I doubt that God would take any notice of the fact that the relationship has not been regularised by a civil legal piece of paper.
But she and the father need to know that this "sin" if it is one, is no greater tna any other.
---alan_of_UK on 8/20/07


Trish .. Your point and question are quite right and valid.
---alan_of_UK on 8/20/07


The Bible says "Children are a blessing from the Lord, the fruit of the womb a reward."

There's nothing there about the circumstances surrounding their conception vitiating the blessing!
---Jack on 8/20/07


Mima...You know that fornication is not an unforgivable sin. Maybe the lady wasn't going to stop her fornicating. If that is the case, then she isn't ready for salvation.
---Susie on 8/20/07


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come on now, if you're out wittnessing you should know better than that! that is satan trying to get your goat hun! John 3:16 says whosoever... not everyone except for you and you over there. if you trust in Jesus as your Lord and Savior, then you have no worries! You are under grace!
---mary on 8/20/07


If she is relying on whether she had children in or out of wedlock, she is relying on the wrong thing. Jesus is the only way. So many people have heard and believed the perversion of the gospel for so long that they can hardly believe anything else. She has probably been told all her life that it is her good or evil that determines her relationship with God. It isn't. It is faith in Jesus Christ.
---Linda on 8/20/07


Her confession to you diplays how far back into her own works she had trod. And her confession also displays that she is trying to relate to God in her flesh instead of through her spirit. Pray for her, Mima, using Eph.1:17-23. I hope you get the opportunity to speak with her again. If not, I pray that the seed already sown will be watered profusely and there will be increase from God. I am so saddened when I hear of things like this. This is called shipwreck of faith.
---Linda on 8/20/07


There is no sin that cannot be forgiven except blasphemy of the Holy Spirit. Mark 3:28-29 This precious one needs to be told the truth, that Father God loves her and will forgive her. She needs to ask for forgiveness and turn from her wicked ways. She probably has been taught that to repent she would have to turn her back on the children, but that is not true. The Lord wants to save them too. He wants to bring love, joy, peace to that family.
---Gena on 8/20/07


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I don't see what being Pentecostal has to do with the belief that fornication is sin. I also do not understand what your point in asking this question is.
---Trish9863 on 8/20/07


I believe Jesus died for all and if you repent, you live. Nothing can separate us from the Love of God. I believe Judas would of been saved, if he repented.
---Ruth6655 on 8/20/07


She had been wrongly informed.
Her sin is no greater than that of a Christian who has too much pride, or fails to love his neighbour.
---alan_of_UK on 8/20/07


Fundamental holiness practices and beliefs are rooted in bondage. Jesus came to set the captives free and remove bondage from the law. Fundamental holiness places more emphasis on tradition than the Word. They have their own interpretations and manmade traditions. Surprisingly enough, it is these same people who scream the loudest at the RCC for the traditions of men, but have a new set that they follow.
---Jenny on 8/20/07


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Example: In Jesus Name Only churches, Oneness Pentecostals. Many place more emphasis on a woman wearing her uncut long hair in a bun, long sleeves, long dresses than they do on the actual condition of the a person's soul.
Jesus told the pharisees about their ungodly traditions of keeping the outward vessels clean but neglecting the inner vessel. Oneness/fundamental holiness places the same yoke of burden onto people - concern about the outward man, clothing, hair, food, etc.
---Jenny on 8/20/07


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