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Are We In Tribulation

Who out there believe by scripture that we are in the time of tribulation even now?

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 ---jody_martin on 9/7/07
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Trav Now if you would just learn to divide the Scripture and see to whom and when it was written .....
May God bless your day and change your mind.... a miracle to behold.
---Elder on 4/7/11

Thanks for even an arrogant sarcastic blessing. Need em.
You teach me...."you".
Your scriptural precepts are hidden behind your acid remarks though.
Lets divide scripture maybe you'll bonafide elder b. Lets play deliver the scriptural elephant of "whom" & why.
Scared?
My precepts aren't.
Wait, come back....maybe you'll convert one. i care enough about you to compare truths.
James 5:19
Brethren, if any of you do err from truth, and one convert him,

Hate? C:Ps 119:104..
---Trav on 4/8/11


The Tribulation and The Great Tribulation were the falling away commerce wars and the signs and wonders of the false prophet.

All appointed to taste death, once, and then The Resurrection and The Great Ingathering.
---johnss_Dawood on 4/8/11


Trav...agreed. weapon of choice is the Sword of the Spirit.

Eph 6:17 And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God:
---aka on 4/7/11

We concur. Ha. May our scriptural precepts always concur and GOD bless our search and lives by same.
Swords & types of.
Psalm 22:20
Deliver my soul from the sword, my darling from the power of the dog.
Psalm 64:3
Who whet their tongue like a sword, and bend their bows to shoot their arrows, even bitter words:
Proverbs 30:14
There is a generation, whose teeth are as swords, their jaw teeth as knives, to devour the poor from off the earth, and the needy from among men.
---Trav on 4/8/11


Thank you Tray for speaking to me respectfully. In my error, I assumed on this site (being new here) that we all shared one common goal. ---Mikeman on 4/6/11

Mikeman, it is searching people here. All for different reasons. A cross section world church of sorts. Some preachers by title but not by GOD's emplacement. Craving trimming on their robes & authority having no food for poor and needy in the word. Christians,of all flavors...at different points of the path of searching seeking.
But, very little precept upon precept truth.
But hey, bring some precept upon precept peace/meat/truth to any sheep you can find. Or just munch where the grass is green in the field...watch out for those dark spots...you know what that is.
---Trav on 4/8/11


johnns dawood, If I read correctly what you said, I disagree with your statement, here is why?

"Now, brethren, concerning the Coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together to Him, we ask you, not to be soon shaken in mind or troubled, either by spirit or by word or by letter, as if from us, as though the day of Christ had come. Let no one deceive you by any means, For that Day will not come (the Coming of our Lord) unless the falling away comes first, and the man of sin is revealed, the son of perdition"

Paul's message that "the day Christ" was not just around the corner. Something big must happen first. The falling away of the Church, and the man of sin is revealed.
---Mark_V. on 4/8/11




the time of Jacobs sorrow is when the whole world unites to destroy Israel,God allows this to occur through the Anti-christ and world events foretold...then the words of the psalmist will be fulfilled and The Lord will srike through kings in the day of His wrath.It is not for the church,we are to be raptured...
---richard on 4/8/11


Hi leslie,

The catching up happens following/during the gathering feast celebration which is completed after the commerce warfare of the implementation of the false prophet who will be successful until the time of the end at 1335 days (13 months with leap month added and 28-31 days per month gives 7, 5, and 4 days or 6 days for gregorian calender differential including february in the leap year)(7+6+5+4 = 22 = 2021 - 1999).
---johhns_dawood on 4/7/11


//Matthew 10:34
Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword.//

Trav...agreed. weapon of choice is the Sword of the Spirit.

Eph 6:17 And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God:

Heb 4:12 For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.
---aka on 4/7/11


Old copy and paste John is at it again. "PRE-TRIB RAPTURE IS A HERESY!!!" John you were wrong the first time you posted this and you are still wrong.
Tell us, as I asked you before when does the Bema judgment take place? It has not occurred yet. It doesn't occur on earth during the great Tribulation. It doesn't occur after the 2nd Coming or 1000 years. So, when John? Copy and paste that answer.
Also, your upper case letters prove nothing except it is hard for you to control yourself.
Now you are after Mikeman. I am glad that we give you a reason for living for you certainly don't for the truths sake.
By the way, when Jesus showed anger He sinned not! Can you truthfully say that applies to you?
Nope... didn't think so.
---Elder on 4/7/11


John, I also disagree with your conduct. You say you are a pastor, I've never heard a pastor lose his cool and go unglued. You defend your conduct by using Jesus anger when He turned the tables, when in reality He was God and could see the peoples hearts, and you cannot. You get angry for nothing. We are not discussing the nature or character of God. If that was the case then I could see you been angry. But we are discussing end time prophecy. End time prophecy is not a prerequisite for salvation. So Why the harsh words against the gathering of believers in the Church of Christ? And how can anyone discuss anything when you do not give anyone a chance to speak? Why not just give your interpretation on end times and see if it can edify someone?
---Mark_V. on 4/7/11




Trav there is no doubt that you are disturbed because when you thought you knew it all you learned something from me. Now if you would just learn to divide the Scripture and see to whom and when it was written you may be able to make some correct judgements also. Why... you might even get rid of some of your hate even tho you love it so much.
May God bless your day and change your mind.... now that would be a miracle to behold.
---Elder on 4/7/11


Mikeman, Compare Christians/believers in the OT/NT/earlychurch fathers to say...Jerry Farewell, Ricky Warren, Joel Olstein. Do an indepth study of scripture's HOLY people. See if they match todays Fundi/Evangelicals.

Todays Potluck/Bourgoise/Pseudo/PoliticallyCorrect/Phonies are "Whitewashed Tombs with the deadmen bones inside"

NOW JOHNUSA...

YES! many times War/Hate is better than Love/Peace. It has many times in Scripture.

For they would have NEVER allowed HBO to show a man unrinate on the Face of Jesus and laughed along. NO complaints/NO boycott/NO Cancellations(WIMPS!) .

AND THE LORD ASKED...
"When I return will I find The Faith?

The answer sadly is...
NO!!!


---John on 4/6/11


Yes indeed, war and hatred are much better than peace and love.
---John.usa on 4/6/11


Thank you Tray for speaking to me respectfully. In my error, I assumed on this site (being new here) that we all shared one common goal. To encourage each other in our mission to reach the lost. I come from a long line of angry 'christian' people who never accomplished much besides hurting each other. Thank you, and I will take your advice - In Christ
---Mikeman on 4/6/11


We, I assume are all brothers and sisters in Christ on here.
We all are working parts to One Body - lets keep loving one another and not take our eyes off our mission.
Peace
---Mikeman on 4/6/11

Mikeman...you seem like a peace maker and good guy.
Peace never was the mission, though. Milk was not the meal. All are not a brother or a sister.
Although....there is room for your mission too.
Matthew 10:34
Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword.
Matthew 10:13
And if the house be worthy, let your peace come upon it: but if it be not worthy, let your peace return to you.
Matthew 5:9
Blessed are the peacemakers: for they shall be called the children of God.
---Trav on 4/6/11


One last thing John, while I recognize we are to stand firm and not believe everyone who claims to speak by the Spirit. We must test each spirit to see if the spirit they have comes from God. Dont let any zeal, or possible anger issues cloud your thinking, dont be so eager to toss tables John. In my book, Jesus was allowed to because he was God. Thats a far stretch for you AND I both. Being overly zealous in a bad way can cloud the wonderful message of redemption we are to be delivering to lost people -that we meet, or that might read what we write down on this web site etc. So I will say it again peace to you John.
---Mikeman on 4/6/11


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Mikeman you are correct.....John you are way out of line.
By this they will know you are my disciples if you love one another....
---JIM on 4/6/11


lutherist, Bro. Elder is a man of God and knows his bible so whatever he says, he has bible for it. I have learned a few things from him. take heed.
---shira3877 on 4/6/11


Go turn over your tables John, - it seems to give you some type of caffine belt.
---Mikeman on 4/6/11

Was that addressed to Jesus?
Cause He was the Guy that was doing that. I guess he doesn't meet your approval. He wasn't very "Tolerant".

In fact he was very Narrow Minded. HE'S RIGHT AND YOU'RE WRONG!

You are proffessing the Fundi/Evangelical equivalent of Political Correctness(AKA: Biblical Correctness)

IT IS FAKE!

As That Guy (who flip those tables) said...

"You keep the outside of your cup clean, but inside they are filled with wickedness!".
---John on 4/6/11


"Gee Milkman, that was NAUSEATING!!!" and

"I do not subscribe to Political Correctness, Love/Peace. I'm Ok/you're ok mantra of the religious Cult of Liberalism!"

Mr. John, you just proved my point - thank you!

FYI - Nor do I subscribe to Political Correctness - We are to be the salt and light in this dark world. Go turn over your tables John, - it seems to give you some type of caffine belt. I was talking about the back and forth between us brothers and sisters in Christ here...
---Mikeman on 4/6/11


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Yes we are in tribulation but not the great tribulation. The great tribulation speaks of a time when Christians live will be in danger merely for speaking the words Jesus Christ. The general tribulation has been going on since the cross.
---mima on 4/6/11


Gee Milkman, that was NAUSEATING!!!

I do not subscribe to Political Correctness, Love/Peace. I'm Ok/you're ok mantra of the religious Cult of Liberalism!

No I belong to Christ. The same Christ who Whipped and tossed tables at the Temple. Who followers argued constantly. I.E. When Paul/Peter went at it with jester/cursing.

And all believers who fought, killed and argued for G-d.
(i.e Jael, she drove a stake through the skull of Sisero/ his brain splattered Ooops).

This Satanic Scripture you so foolishly obey. Was design by Liberals to Neuter/squelch all free thought, especially Christian thought. Now take your Bourgeois Carnal Pseudo Holiness and seek approval of Men/Satan.

I SEEK G-D!
---John on 4/6/11


As I read the back and forth between all of you. I wonder how we are standing apart from how the world relates to each other. We, I assume are all brothers and sisters in Christ on here. Yet I see 'ourselves' getting in the way, making not so nice comments to each other and so on...We all are working parts to One Body - lets keep loving one another and not take our eyes off our mission. Agree to disagree for gosh sakes... - Peace
---Mikeman on 4/6/11


John usa, what you say is very true. What I believe is important is that we give what we know to be the Truth, and let God do with His Truth what He so desires. Maybe someone has missed something, and they can check for themselves if their hearts are searching for the Truth. Calling someone a heretic does nothing to teach anyone. I defend against heretics when they attack the Nature character or attributes of God. Many here do that with Jesus, and I will defend those points even if I am hated by others. But you are right. I have been learning about the end times so much now, and take my time on each verse and by looking at words, such a "Parousia" which is in many of the passages quoted concerning the Second Coming.
---Mark_V. on 4/6/11


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Hey, Luthersick uhg I mean Lutherist and Trav, I really can't help it if what I say agrees with the Bible.
---Elder on 4/5/11

Yeah,your excuse when it doesn't agree? Can't help that either can ya.
Can agree on your statement to leave these prophecy's alone and Luther on his...you being a legend n ur own mind.
Worshipping your own logic explains your logic.
Easily apparent when/if your words and scripture unite.

1Cor14: There are, it may be, so many kinds of voices in the world, and none of them is without signification.
---Trav on 4/6/11


A true belief to one person is heresy to another. That's the principal lesson learned on these blogs.
---John.usa on 4/5/11

1Cor 14:20 Brethren, be not children in understanding: howbeit in malice be ye children, but in understanding be men.

There are some principal lessons here like you say. A small world sampling of what is going on with various Christians and non.
A belief held one day...scripture sought/found/heard or pointed may strengthen or change/negate the belief next day.
Truth is by witness found. Seeking/asking the only teacher is the safest.
---Trav on 4/6/11


A true belief to one person is heresy to another. That's the principal lesson learned on these blogs.
---John.usa on 4/5/11


Hey, Luthersick uhg I mean Lutherist and Trav, I really can't help it if what I say agrees with the Bible. But... at least you have noticed I am right. Thanks. It is because I use Scripture and not human "logic and suggestions."
Try reading the Bible sometime, or have someone read it to you, and get away from the human/reformers books.
---Elder on 4/5/11


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PRE-TRIB RAPTURE IS A HERESY!!!

It was started (19th century) by a Witch named Margaret McDonald(Google it)passed to John Darby then to John Scoffield who brought it to America.

TRIBULATION IS FOR BELIEVERS! WRATH IS FOR THE WICKED! All believers have gone through tribulation. Why would G-d give "YOU" a pass??? It comes from the word Tribul. A sled use to seperate the Wheat from the Chaff. A testing of faith.

NOW HEAR WHAT JESUS SAID...

MATT 24:29-31.."AFTER the tribulation"
JOHN 17:15 "Do NOT take them out of the world..
JOHN 6:39-40,44,54 "On the LAST day"
JOHN 11:24 "on the LAST day"
JOHN 12:48 "on the LAST day"
DAN 12:1-3

CASE CLOSED!!!
---John on 4/5/11


Hey Elder-
It's YOUR TRUTH or nothing right?
Try reading a little...
---Lutherist on 4/4/11

Another legend in his own Elder mind.

25 How forcible are right words! but what doth your arguing reprove?

26 Do ye imagine to reprove words, and the speeches of one that is desperate, which are as wind?

Zechariah 8:17
And let none of you imagine evil in your hearts against his neighbour, love no false oath: for all these are things that I hate, saith the LORD.

Psalm 71:9
Cast me not off in the time of old age, forsake me not when my strength faileth.
---Trav on 4/5/11


Mark V-

Thank you!

The majority of Biblical scholars were convinced that the HE who makes a New Covenant is Christ. It is Christ who, being the ultimate sacrifice and atonement, put an end the sacrificial temple practices FOREVER.

(Daniel 9:27) "And he shall make a firm covenant with many for one week, and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease". I only suggest that at Christ's resurrection the last 3 1/2 years were suspended, and 3 1/2 years remain for Israel and Jerusalem to complete their mission. (Daniel 9:24) "Seventy weeks are decreed upon THY PEOPLE and upon THY HOLY CITY... to seal up vision and prophecy, and to anoint the Most Holy".
---Lutherist on 4/5/11


Lutherist, I agree.
a lot has been interpreted to one sentence Daniel 9:27 that's not there.

"He shall confirm "the covenant" with many for one week: and in the mist of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease.." Daniel 9:27.

The entire prophecy of Daniel (9:24-27) covers a period of "seventy weeks" Logic requires that the "seventy weeks" refers to one consecutive block of time, in other words, to seventy straight sequential weeks. For there is no example in Scripture of a stated time period starting, stopping, and then starting again. All biblical references to time are consecutive: 40 days and 40 nights, 400 years in Egypt, 70 years of captivity.
---Mark_V. on 4/5/11


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Lutherist 2: Daniel 9:27 says nothing about a seven-year period of tribulation, a rebuild Jewish temple, or any "Antichrist."
The stated focus of this prophecy is the Messiah, not the antichrist. "He shall confirm the covenant" Paul said, "the covenant" "was confirmed before by God in Christ" Gal. 3:17. Jesus Christ came "to confirm the promise made to the fathers" Rom. 15:8. The King James, Daniel 9:27 doesn't say "a covenant" or "a peace" treaty, but "the Covenant" which applies to "The New Covenant" because no where in the Bible does the antichrist makes or confirms, or breaks a covenant with anyone.
---Mark_V. on 4/5/11


Larry-

There will not be another Jewish Temple. If you are waiting to see a new temple built before you start taking End Times seriously... you may miss all of the signs of the Second Coming.

Since Christ, the Temple of God is within the Christian.

Paul uses the term "Temple of God" five times, and all five times it refers to the Church or people within the Church.

There will not be another Jewish Temple... it would be an abomination to Christ, His sacrifice, and atonement.
---Lutherist on 4/4/11


Samuel, that's a distinction without a difference. Neither of us have polling numbers as if that makes a weak attempt at a correction valid. I can say the most popular commentaries including Barnes, Clark, Henry, Gill, Jamieson and Keil either agree on the aforementioned or both.
As said earlier I am not interested in arguing.
If the Anti-Christ has not set up shop in the rebuilt Temple Mount we have a long way to go before the tribulation.
---larry on 4/4/11


Hey Elder-

It's YOUR TRUTH or nothing right? No one else is allowed to disagree with "ELDER". Well a lot of biblical schollars disagree with you, including ALL of the Reformers! Try reading a little...
---Lutherist on 4/4/11


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Actually Larry only certain scholars place the crucfiction at the end of the 69 weeks and put the 70th week future.

Most I read say JESUS was crucified in the midst of the 70th week and that the seventy weeks have ended.

The first problem is that many do not about this and often it is not published how to get the numbers. It took me quite a while to find. But today with the internet both sides can be located easily.

I believe the 70 weeks are over.
---Samuel on 4/4/11


"Since... after 4 days..."
Lutherist
Have you ever thought that people are ignoring you.
You have been presented with the truth on other blogs and rejected it. What has changed in your heart? Nothing!
You want a college course in 125 words so you can reject some more.
Study Daniel's 70 week prophecy and you will see all you need. But, then again maybe you need Rom 10:9-13.
---Elder on 4/4/11


Lutherist, the 70 sevens of years from Daniel 9:25 and 26 is where the interpretation of 7 years is born. Most Christian scholars take the 483 years from the destruction of the Temple until the Crucifixtion and place the remaining 7 years for the tribulation.
Daniel 9:27 and Daniel 7:25 is where the conclusion is drawn for the times, time and half a time denoting 3 1/2 years. I accept that interpretation though I am not here to argue about it.
As to the question...NO
---larry on 4/4/11


Since... after 4 days... no one has posted a specific scriptural response verse to support a seperate End Times SEVEN YEAR tribulation period...

I will assume that there is NO SUCH VERSE... and these Pre-trib Rapture seven year Great Tribulation period proponents have surrendered to logical scriptural evidence, and their lack there of!
---Lutherist on 4/3/11


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For those who insist on creating a distinction between the prophesied Christian "Tribulation" occuring from the first century until now, and a so-called SEVEN YEAR LONG "Great Tribulation".

Where in Scripture does the Word of God teach that there will be a SEVEN YEAR LONG End Times great tribulation period??

Once again... find a SPECIFIC PASSAGE that describes a SEVEN YEAR LONG tribulation period!
---Lutherist on 3/31/11


Jody Martin, you are going to walk in tribulations, persecution of Christ and chastisement when you're a Christian. Scripture says:

"Then said Jesus unto his disciples, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me." Matthew 16:24 - is the "cross" symbolic of fun or suffering?

"In the world ye shall have tribulation: but be of good cheer, I have overcome the world." John 16:33

What's the purpose of tribulations then?

"My brethren, count it all joy when ye fall into divers temptations, Knowing this, that the trying of your faith worketh patience." James 1:2,3 - the testing of your faith in Christ.
---christan on 3/22/11


Believers have been in tribulation since Christ started the church. Just ask Stephen, Paul, Peter, James, all who gave their lives for his and the gospels sake. If you are asking are we in the great tribulation of Revelation, no. But there will be no question among Christians when we are. I believe it is very soon, but so did the saints in the New Testament. Watch and Wait.
---Harold on 3/22/11


yes i do believe that we have entered into the tribulation period.. the economic collapse,, now possible plagues ( radiation) .. 10 yrs ago the Lord showed me 3 signs of His soon return for the bride of Christ.I now think that we must be on the cusp of the Rapture.
---janna on 3/18/11


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Jesus was talking about the destruction of Jerusalem being very very soon (it happened in 70 AD). Jesus said nobody except God the Father knew the timing of the Rapture etc. Even if it is not for 2000 or more years after Christ rose again, it still means we must be ready all the time, we do not know when it will be too late for us, if we died suddenly in a car accident etc.
---frances008 on 10/20/08


If the time was not at hand then why did Jesus say it was?
Matthew 3:2, 4:17
1 Peter 4:7
at hand means now.
Jesus also says that he is coming quickly
Rev 3:11, Rev 22:7, 12, 20
Jesus also said to be ready because He is coming like a thief in the night. We should be prepaired like the 7 brides were. Bring your extra oil!
This means we are in the tribulation times.
There are two.
One before the Beast comes, as a sign of his coming.
And the one after the Beast is here, this is the persecution of Christians.
Between these two times the rapture will happen.
---ginger on 10/20/08


steven, Revelations it not chronological.
It has many parallels.
The first 4 seals have already been opened- The four horsemen let loose on a third of the earth. And the 7 churches they are happening right now. This started when Jesus ascended to the thrown in heaven. the rapture happens before the beast comes, not before tribulation. Read revelations through the spirit, not with the mind of a child or in the flesh. Let the Holy Spirit guild you and you see what I say is true. Try the spirits.
I found these parallels by praying and the Spirit had me break down the chapters then verses. That is how it was shown to me. God bless you brother.
---ginger on 10/20/08


We are in a time of tribulation but if you are talking about the end times tribulation I say no because the church will be raptured before the great tribulation.The "church" is present in heaven when the seals are broken and the tribulation begins.It is spelled out pretty easily in the scriptures.
---ron on 10/19/08


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All have been in tribulation since Jesus went back to be with His Father. But we are not in the Great Tribulation yet. It will be soon.
---Sandra on 10/19/08


ginger: "We are in tribulation and it started when Jesus left us."

The tribulation since Jesus arose until now is like paradise compared to what is to befall the world shortly. Gather together Noah's time, Saddam and Gomorrah, the Crusades, the Holocaust, World War II and other catastrophes, calamities, disasters, destructions and wars since the beginning of time and roll them up in just a few short years. Satan will unleash unto mankind everything he has learned since the beginning for he knows he has only a short time left. I strongly suggest you putting on the whole armor of God, do an online Bible search for "one another" and "each other," and apply what you learned to your little world.
---Steveng on 10/18/08


steven, I was not trying to predect anything. I just answered the question.
We are in tribulation and it started when Jesus left us.
The 4 horsemen have been upon the earth for the past 2000 years. I did not say or claim to know when the other seals will be opened or when beast will come or anything else.
I made the statement based upon what has and is happening right now in the earth and what the Word says.

As for back to basics, I am no longer on milk, brother. I read the meat of the WORD.
You know, study and shew thyself approved.
That is what I do study, I do what God says and I do not judge.
God bless you brother.
---ginger on 10/16/08


ginger, and the rest of you who have an opinion about Revelation. There is certainly no harmony about the interpretations about Revelation. Men have been trying to interpret itfor about 2,000 years.

My suggestion is to go back to the basics of Christianity - to obey the two commandments spoken of by Jesus. Allow the future to unfold on its own. Do an online bible search for "one another" and "each other" and do what is commanded. Let tomorrow take care of itself. There is enough to do today than to try to figure out what tomorrow will bring. You read the prophesies, just be aware of what is happening. Keep praying that God will find you worthy to escape such things. Allow Him to guide you when the time comes.
---Steveng on 10/15/08


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Rev. 6 Verses 1-8
The 1st seal is of conquest/the conquerer
2nd seal the remover of peace and slayer of men
3rd seal the measurer- this is greed and famine.
4th seal Death
it says that the 4 horsemen were given power over a fourth of the earth.
I believe that the 4 horsemen have already been set upon the earth because of what has been going on.
I must apologize because the 5th and 6th seals havent been opened yet according to scripture. I previously said they were but I am wrong.
Verses 9-17
the 5th seal are the dead in Christ-those who died Christian
6th is the Great earth quake- black sun, red moon.
---ginger on 10/15/08


After starting my study of Revelation, I realize the tribulation started with the resurrection and Ascension Of Christ to heaven.
Revelations chapters 1-5 talks of the Coming of Jesus(the first time), the seven churches, the throne in heaven, and the seven seals on the scroll and the Lamb(Christ).
Chapter 6 is the beginning of the seals 1-6 being opened by the Lamb.
This was the start of the tribulation.
Not sure where we are in these times but I believe we are within this timeframe.

The following hasn't happened yet.
Chapter 7 is the 144,000 (verses 1-8)
and the Rapture(verses 9-17)
Chapter 8 verses 1-5 is the opening of the 7th seal.
I believe from studying so far that there are many Parallels in Revelations.
---ginger on 10/14/08


The Bible is clear that Christians will be persecuted, handed over to be tried, executed etc. These things are not happening on a large scale at this moment as far as I know. Christians are to go THROUGH the tribulation. The rapture is when Jesus comes again with his elect from one end of Heaven to the other and the believers and those who are to be saved are caught up in the air with them together with all those whose bodies are dust (they will receive new bodies). I believe this is just before the final Judgement is poured out on the evil people. Then with the earth purged, the Lord returns to earth for the thousand year reign at the end of that Satan is released to deceive the world for the final time.
---frances008 on 10/14/08


This is a frivolous debate, but let's reason this out.

First, There is only One Judgement Day, not two. If people are raptured at the beginning, judgement has been pronounced, because the Christians were taken and the evil people left on Earth. But it is written that both the tares and the wheat will be harvested at the same time.

Second, there is nothing new under the sun. No one in history was ever raptured. Jesus himself said no one has ascended into heaven. Neither Moses or Elijah will be the witnesses. God even says that he buried Moses in a valley. I suggest reading a phrase dictionary telling the many ways to say that a person kicked the bucket.
---Steveng on 10/13/08


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Agin, there is nothing new under the sun.

Third, Every time there was a catastrophe, Godly men and women were not raptured, but were protected by God while still on earth. Noah and his family, David and his friends, the Israelites during the plagues, etc. The Christians during the tribulation period will be protected the same way by the mark of God. All humanity is in the same boat and will experience the same thing, but Christians are protected.

Fourth, why have a tribulation if the Christians were taken up and the evil left on earth? Many Christians believe that they would rise before the tribulation to escape Gods wrath. But why would the dead be taken? Can the dead feel the wrath of God on Earth if theyre dead?
---Steveng on 10/13/08


Sixth, Don't be so vain to think you are more special than the Christians and Godly people who died in all of history. Don't be afraid about what is about to happen during these end times. Persecution, on the other hand, is what we will face. Are you willing to die for Jesus like all the other Godly people and Christians in the past? Now is the time to strengthen your relationship with God.

Seventh, Christians will be going through the tribulation much like all the other groups of godly people who gone through tribulation in the past like the Israelites in Egypt during the plagues, Noah and his family, and all the remnants. Dont worry though, if your faith in God is strong, He will protect you.
---Steveng on 10/13/08


The Bible does NOT say the rapture will preceed the tribulation. That is but one of several interpretations.

Christians in some African nations could conclude that we are in the tribulation now, because of the atrocities they endure. Christians in some Muslim nations might conclude the same. We don't know what lies ahead for us as believers.

If one believes in a "mid-trib" rapture, the rapture occurs when the anti-Christ reveals himself and demands worship. I've heard a few speculate that Barak Obama could be the anti-Christ.I wouldn't go that far, but one can see how crowds follow and trust (perhaps worship) an unknown man with great charisma and great promises. I think now the whole world is yearning for such a leader.
---Donna66 on 10/13/08


I believe that the second world war, as we call it today, is the time period period spoken about as when the dragon pursues the woman and she is delivered on the wings of eagles. The time period to come is called the Great Tribulation and is a time of war upon the Saints of God Most Highly Exalted. It will span from a period of 3 1/2 years or 42 months or 1260 days as written plus 30-75 days (1290-1335 days) in accordance with the fulfillment of The Word Spoken to Daniel and John the Apostle of God. The whole earth will be coming to contractions giving birth to The Millennium period Reign of Jesus. These contractions will be evident in the appearance of the false prophet who is called by John the Apostle the anti-Christ in the other epistles.
---john on 10/13/08


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Daniel and Revelation says that the thing that starts the tribulation is the coming of the person commonly called "the anti-christ".

and i am of the belief that before that happens, Christians will be caught up in the rapture.

what we are seeing now that looks like things the Bible says are in the tribulation, is just the beginnings of birth pangs.
in which case, Jesus said, when you see those, look up for your redemption draws nigh.
---opalgal on 10/13/08


'In this life you will have trouble, but take heart for I have overcome the world.'

'There is time a season for eveything.' is Solomon. A time for pruning, a time for growth. 'Every tree that bears some fruit in Me, The Father prunes so that it produces more.' 'The fruit of The Spirit is Love, Joy, Peace, Patience (persistance), gentelness, Goodness, Faith, Meekness, Temperance.' ' For those who have these qualities, there is no 'law''. 'For the One who does them Will Live by them.' "I AM The Life and The Resurrection.' 'For if you possess these in increasing measure, they will keep you from being unproductive in your faith.'
---jack_david on 10/13/08


The Earth labor's as a pregnant woman about to give birth, This is the beginning of sorrow's, Not the 7 yr. trib.
The day's are coming in which the likes of man has never seen before and not only the Earth will shake, But the Heavens also, and the stars shall fall as figs in their due season and war shall break out in Heaven and Satan shall be cast UNTO the earth,
and KNOW that his time IS short and not able to go too and fro accusing man as he's been doing from the beginning.
This is the beginning of the 7 yr. Trib.
that brings the AC to power, the Brides gone and those that heard the Word but chose not to listen to the Gospel and repent, Will be the ones to encounter the AC's rule.
---Duane_Dudley_Martin on 10/13/08


We'll see. Some months from know you'll change your mind...then you can comment again. Blessing.
---Rainbow_Trout on 10/12/08


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Your translation of the Bible is WRONG if you believe we are in the Tribulation. The Bible talks about the Rapture of the Church happening FIRST, and then the Tribulation happens. The Bible says we are in the stages of the Birth paigns happening - NOT the Tribulation.
---Leslie on 10/4/08


Yes, I know we are in the tribulation.
---Rainbow_Trout on 10/2/08


I think we are close.....I think that things are going to get a lot worse here on earth...such that there will be no denying the tribultion is here.
---Tammy on 5/11/08


The world is in tribulation.
---duke on 12/15/07


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If you search the scriptures and see the spiritual types and shadows of what the events mean as God sees them we are in tribulation and have been for a while.
Many have fallen and do not know it.
Men's hearts failing, the sun darkened, earthquakes in divers places and such...
Happening now, yet unseen by the multitudes.

Frank
---Frank on 9/29/07


Leslie, I have read all of the Bible and while I have found parts on Christ's return, I have never seen anything to suggest that He will return more than once. Your reference is to Matthew 24, but here the "birth pangs" preceed the Tribulation, but read the chapter to see what has already come. I would add that Matthew 24 was mostly fulfilled with the Fall of Jerusalem, but it still shadows the end times as well, as in The End of this world.
---lorra8574 on 9/8/07


Leslie P2: The confusion lies in Matthew 24:40-42, but this is answered in Luke 17:34-37. Note especially verse 37 which shows where they will be "taken".

Luke 17:37 "And answering they said to Him, "Where, Lord?" And He said to them, "(AJ)Where the body is, there also the vultures will be gathered."

This is not a reference to any rapture. And do not forget about Matthew 24:13. Or Christ's prayer for us John 17:15.
---lorra8574 on 9/8/07


When people cannot control themselves, when events don't make sense, when common sense don't make sense, when science can't figure out problems (global warming, bees vanishing), when humans are self-centered, When we murder babies for selfish reasons, when most of the population is on drugs, when children disobey, when churches are integrated with other religions, when reason is thrown out the window, yes, we are in tribulation or close to it.

The sixties was the turning point to our demise.
---Steveng on 9/7/07


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I tend to thing that we may be. Over the past century, we have seen horrific tribulations around the globe. Many are quick to blame religion for the bad things in this world, but far worse has been done in the name of "no God". As bad as the inquisitions and crusades were, as bad as terrorism is today, all of it combined is a pale shadow compared to the blood shed by Atheistic Russia/USSR, North Korea, China. And all of them pale in comparison to the blood shed through abortion.
---lorra8574 on 9/7/07


Something to ponder. Some expect that tribulation will be nasty and bloody, but torture and death are not the worst things.

For a time the Devil was held in check but now is loose in the world and seeking whom he may devour. Not by torture or death, although righteous people are arrested every day for standing against abortion, but by seduction, temptation, lies and deceipt.
---lorra8574 on 9/7/07


We have a little mantra that has been very popular, WWJD (what would Jesus do?). More people need to really follow that.

Jesus did not come down and die for us so that we could continue in the sins of those who came before. He did not die so that we could enjoy casual sex, or kill off our inconvenient conceptions (babies), or even to be happy in this world. He came to reconcile us to God. We make mistakes, and Jesus is our remedy. But not so that we can be free to make more mistakes.
---lorra8574 on 9/7/07




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