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Peter Head Of Catholic Church

Could Peter Be the Head of the Catholic Church?

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Is that from the book "Who's Who In The Bible"? Would you recommend it?
---Nana on 3/20/09

Peter+++Was a Christian. His impact has been tragically dimmed by the Acrimonious debates of Roman Catholic-Protestant circles, but the biblical evidence is CLEAR. Peter was the leading disciple of Jesus and indeed the "rock" who provided the foundation for the church. As the representative disciple, his enthusiasm and even his weaknesses have made him the Supreme example of the develping disciple, one who, THROUGH THE POWER OF THE RISEN LORD, rose above his faults to become a towering figure on the church scene....Peter was a leader and a missionary. He was Martyrdon. We do not know the place.
---catherine on 3/20/09

saw this blog- what a todo about Catholics - I am catholic,Charismatic - which means living a life of the Spirit as per Romans 8 -Jesus is Lord if anyone doesnt know the Cath faith dont harange it - please read the documents from the apostles time. We are all brothers and sister in Christ. 'Thou art Peter and on this rock I shall build my church'and the Pope is in continuity of that. as far as our humanity goes we are not perfect but we are Church, all of US so please let us learn the Spirit from each other, we have much to share, to rejoice in, praise and thank the Lord for - where is the Spirit of unity we should all foster according to the will of Christ? please before you demolish through lack of knowledge or understanding - learn!
---susan_farrugia on 3/19/09

andrea you couldnt say that with a straight face if we were face to face. Give it a rest. It's just the need to make others other so you can feel your better. Get a church girl. Why do you people persist in telling us the "truth". you can almost never agree among yourself.
---alexia on 10/9/07

And the Church warns us as, do most psycologists, of the dangers of fundamentalism. We understand your problem. So like just don't worry about us...We have been doing fine since long before you formed your "one-person" church.
---alexia on 10/9/07

Actually alexia its bc we love the Catholic people and desire to see them in truth

Not alexia's truth, or Andrea's truth or the pope's truth but Jesus' truth
---Andrea on 10/9/07

jesus/god is the only head of the church. peter aint nobody. . just like mary. . . a human born of sin. thou shall have no other gods before me. no man is the head of what god has made. people read the word for youself. stop following man. he will only lead you astray. he is human and is subject to error. like my typing!
---amelia on 10/9/07

Tommy and Caleb, since both the Bible and historical sources state that the Nicolaitans practiced the same sins as the followers of Balaam, what source to you have that proves anything different????

I have seen the websites and they do not have valid source material and do not have the credentials to be taken seriously. What proper non-web source do you have that you are willing to stake your immortal soul on this?
---lorra8574 on 10/9/07

If the Catholic church is so bad, why do so many of you keep starting forum topics on it? I would think you would find us too dangerous to be near. You might be corrupted. and Tommy, You were never Catholic since you have no clue what the Church is about.
---alexia on 10/9/07

.emcee, Since I am a born-again Christian, I am not able to receive your falsehood, but I think that catholic blogs would welcome your catholicism.
---Eloy on 10/8/07

"It is the bounden duty of every Christian to pray against Antichrist, and as to what Antichrist is no sane man ought to raise a question. If it be not the Popery in the Church of Rome there is nothing...called by that name.It wounds Christ, robs Christ of His glory, puts sacramental efficacy in the place of His atonement, and lifts a piece of bread in the place of the Saviour...If we pray against it,...we shall love their souls, though we loathe and detest their dogmas...." C. H. Spurgeon
---caleb on 10/8/07

I was a Catholic for 22 years. My Grandmother for over 70 years. We were saved in 1971. I have studied His word ever since. When you know the author personally, you better understand what He is saying. It is my contention that the Roman Leadership just turned their secular roles in for spiritual roles. What do you think happened to the Roman Infrastructure after Constantine had his revelation? They became the church leaders. Do you think they all had a come to Jesus moment? I think not.
---tommy on 10/8/07

Thank you Eloy::By their Fruits you will know them.He who lives by the sword Dies by the sword.Double edged or not.
---Emcee on 10/8/07

ELOY::Jesus Christ was GOD.The founder of Christianity.He was born as man into the Jewish community as predicted.He was a saviour unrecognised by his own people.A christian is defined as a FOLLOWER of christ,just as your children are your off spring But NOT YOU.
---Emcee on 10/8/07

.strongaxe, Have you not read, He became sin whom knew no sin? or again, he humbled himself and became obedient up to death, even the death of the cross? "Jesus answered and said to him, Let now, for thus it befits us to fulfill all righteousness. Then he let him. But when came the fulness his time, sent forward that God whom Son of him, coming of a woman, COMING UNDER LAW, in order that them under law he can redeem, so that the adoption of sons we may receive." Matthew 3:15+ Galatians 4:4,5.
---Eloy on 10/8/07

.strongaxe, Jesus was Jewish and Christian, for Christian comes from the word Christ of which he is the head. And Jew comes from the word Judah. Likewise every real born-again Christian is also a Jew because Jesus was a Jew, and we are baptized into him. Please Read- Galatians 3:27-29.
---Eloy on 10/8/07

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.emcee, I have no vendetta, only a double-edged sword for all the adversaries of God. And you are one whom continually twists the scripture to fit your catholic religion, and wrongfully dis the sanctified of God.
---Eloy on 10/8/07

Tommy, pagan Rome crucified Peter, not the Catholic Church. And many other Catholics were martyred by Rome before its conversion to Christianity. And given that a secular government is not the same thing as the Church, even after that point secular Rome should never be confused with the Church that is in Rome.
---lorra8574 on 10/7/07

Tommy your the third person that has mentioned the Nicolaitans. What is your version - I understood the Nics to be a dominating priesthood - very strict. There was more then one group but the latter started post 110AD the one spoken of in Rev was guilty of syncretic worship. Not licentiousness as previously thought.
---caleb on 10/7/07

Tommy since you arent Catholic we would expect that answer. Why are you unchurched folks always talking about Catholics? It's not your faith. Try buddhism for a change of pace or hinduism. Have you nothing to talk about in your own "faith" given that its every interpreter for him/herself? Other than those TV evangelists who you all echo.
---alexia on 10/7/07

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AlanOfUk, pt.1: Definitions depend upon context of use that the word is being applied to. Christian can mean, Follower of Christ- but not always because nonChristians can follow Christ and not be a part of him nor embrace him. It can also mean, Like Christ- but not always because many have and use the name Christian but do not even know whom he is.
---Eloy on 10/6/07

AlanOfUk, pt.2: Christian can also more accurately mean- worshipper of Christ, born-again, or one whom is anointed. Therefore Christ can be Christian in that he is the head of the body and we are the body of the body, and so we are one and the same of one body, that is Christian.
---Eloy on 10/6/07

ALan Of Uk.The derivative of Christian is from Christ who is GODhenceChristians are called to be like Jesusin Perfection and or Followers of the God Man Jesus.He is the Founder Matt16:17-19Eloy has a vendetta of some sort with the RCC or anything RCC, or even anyone who disagrees with Him.Unfortunately its a complex & will not reconcile himself to the truth.He gets trapped & will not rescind.He is wrong ,but try telling Him that.
---Emcee on 10/6/07

Emcee ... Yes ... so it's wrong to say that Jesus was a Christian. But I had wondered why Eloy said He was
---alan_of_UK on 10/6/07

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Peter was claimed by the Roman Catholic Church to be the first Pope. Nothing could be further from the truth. He was crucified upside down in Rome by Rome. Theirs is the message of obedience to man. Call no man on earth Father, Jesus said, for you have one father which is in heaven. Jesus ever liveth to make intercession for us, not any man and especially not a Priest. They are the deeds of the Nicolaitins spoken of in Revelations. Not true Christianity though many Catholics are true Christians.
---tommy on 10/6/07

StrongAxe. Thank-you for providing that information, but I alreadly know the history and beliefs of the Orthodox Faith. I just wasn't sure what Andrea meant when she said OC (lol).
---Ramon on 10/5/07

Alan OF Uk ::English is a strange language But for the subject on hand Christian is a follower of Christ,a disciple. He said "Follow me" which means :BE LIKE ME"so your pastor is also right.Remember an old game kids played "Follow the leader" we were called to do what ever the leader did .Must have been a Christian game.
---Emcee on 10/5/07


Christianity two thousand years was one fairly cohesive unit that encompassed much of the Mediterranean basin, in both halves of the fractured Roman Empire (which had one capital originally in Rome, and the other in Constantinopole). The church was similarly divided and finally fractured in 1054 into the western Roman Catholic (RC) church and the eastern Orthodox Church (OC).
---StrongAxe on 10/5/07

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The word "Christian" is used 3 times in the Bible:

Acts 11:26
"... And the disciples were called Christians first in Antioch."
Acts 26:28
"Then Agrippa said unto Paul, Almost thou persuadest me to be a Christian."
1 Peter 4:16
"Yet if any man suffer as a Christian, let him not be ashamed..."

These seem to indicate "follower of Christ". People were often categoried by what person or belief they followed.
---StrongAxe on 10/5/07

Andrea. I'm sorry, what is OC? I am a Pentecostal Christian, saved by the blood of Christ. I want to visit a Charismatic Catholic Church, I just need to find out if theres one in my area....
---Ramon on 10/4/07

Eloy ... Our preacher last Sunday said the word Christian meant "like Christ" and p-reviously I had thought it meant "follower of Christ"
iF either of those is correct, Christ was not a Christian? And I don't think thwe word was ever used before His death?
It would be good if you could show further what is correct.
---alan_of_UK on 10/4/07


Christians are "followers of Christ", and people who have been saved by his sacrifice. Jesus leads - he does not follow himself. He had no sins that needed to be atoned for by anyone's sacrifice (including his own).

Can you find any scriptural reference that indicates that Jesus is or was a "Christian"?
---StrongAxe on 10/4/07

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.strangaxe, Jesus was Jewish and Christian, for Christian comes from the word Christ of which he is the head. And Jew comes from the word Judah. Likewise every real born-again Christian is also a Jew because Jesus was a Jew, and we are baptized into him. Please Read- Galatians 3:27-29.
---Eloy on 10/4/07

My uncle talked about going to a Charismatic Catholic Church. He said he lifted His hands in worship and the Holy SPirit came down and started speaking through Him in tongues. He mentioned a woman afterwards got an interpretation from the Lord and she said what he said in English. It was an account of when he shot a rabid or sick dog, when he was younger, and how the Devil tried to bring Him down for it. My Uncle was sold , because there was no way the woman could have known about that. Praise God.
---Matthew_from_LA on 10/4/07

Ramon - what are you? OC?
---Andrea on 10/3/07

Andrea. The Charismatic Catholic Church are not in "full" Communion with the Church of Rome (i.e., Traditional Roman Catholic Church), but nonetheless, Pope John Paul II and other Popes (including the current Pope) consider the renewal valid (and vice versa). The only difference is how they run the Liturgical Service.

They are specific Charismatic Church (just can't remember which one). In a Charismatic Catholic Church, you will find a High Energy Mass, similar to a Pentecostal Church.
---Ramon on 10/3/07

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#2 They also have a prayer meeting in which prophecy and sometimes speaking in tongues is involved. Even in a Traditional Roman Catholic Church Andrea, you will find praise and worship. There is more energy in a Charismatic Catholic Church though.

To tell you the truth, I am very happy with this movement even though I am not Catholic......
---Ramon on 10/3/07

MikeM. I'm sorry, did you say something?
---Ramon on 10/3/07

anon - why be anonymous - just say it - it is blasphemy
---Andrea on 10/3/07


Most Holy, Immaculate Virgin and my Mother Mary! To thee who art the Mother of my Lord, the Queen of the world, the Advocate, the Hope, and the Refuge of sinners, I have recourse today, I who am the most miserable of all.

I render thee my most humble homage, O great Queen, and I thank thee for all the graces thou hast conferred on me until now, especially for having delivered me from Hell, which I have so often deserved.
page 1
---anonymous on 10/3/07

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I love thee, O most amiable Lady, and for the love which I bear thee, I promise to serve thee always and to do all in my power to make others love thee also. I place in thee all my hopes, I confide my salvation to thy care.
---anonymous on 10/3/07


Well, Jesus was Jewish, but not Christian.

Nevertheless, he is head of the Christian Church.
---StrongAxe on 10/3/07

No. the catholic religion may idolize Peter for their catholic head. But Peter the Apostle was a follower of Christ, and therefore he could not be the head of any false religion, and Christ alone is the only head of the Christian Church.
---Eloy on 10/2/07

No. Peter was Christian, not a catholic.
---Eloy on 10/2/07

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Ramon - that surprises me - i've only seen ETWN mass and it seems pretty dull.
Thats good -

Are there specific charasmatic catholic churches? I thought there were spirit-filled Catholics but not whole churches.
---Andrea on 10/2/07

Andrea. There are praise and worship in the Roman Catholic Church towards Jesus, the Son of God. In fact, if you go a Charismatic Catholic Church, you will find praise and worship similar to any Pentecostal Church....
---Ramon on 10/2/07

Oh, Andrea, I have been a member of a number of Catholic parishes, while each has its own flavour, they have all been glorious with their praises to God. We sing, we pray out loud, we worship - our Mass is Celebration - it is the "Feast" that Paul wants us to celebrate.

In addition to the Mass, various parishes have youth groups and other ministries to praise God even more because we cannot give too much praise or glory to Our Redeemer.
---lorra8574 on 10/2/07

Emcee - did you know that God inhabits the praises of His people.
Is there praise in your church? real heart felt praise of any kind?

Psa 98:4 Shout joyfully to the LORD, all the earth, Break forth in song, rejoice, and sing praises.
1Pe 2:9 But you [are] a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, His own special people, that you may proclaim the praises of Him who called you out of darkness into His marvelous light,
---Andrea on 10/2/07

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Andrea:: You have just unwhittingly uncovered the truth of the matter but are passing judgement on the innocent not the evil doers.
Who introduced SIN?did the eviction of A & E stop him? NO did he continue to this day?YES so every attempt God made to bring Peace & harmony even by wiping out the world(Floods)evil crept in again you are blaming the Good adherents not the ones who cause disruption to peace & harmony God wants GOOD People PERFECTION not Disruption.
---Emcee on 10/2/07

2)"In the first twelve centuries of her existence the Church was disturbed some twenty-five times by rival claimants of the Papacy. The strife thus originated was always an occasion of scanFor forty years (in the 14th century) two and even three pretenders to the Papacy claimed the allegiance of Catholics: whole countries, learned men and canonised saints, ranged themselves on different sides, and even now it is not perhaps absolutely certain who was Pope..." (Catholic Dictionary,
---Andrea on 10/1/07

3)Who can believe that Christ's church is founded on an office occupied by such men as these? Imagine Jesus' church supposedly going through long periods of time in which nobody really knows who was the real head of the church! How much better to accept the plain Bible teaching that the church is founded on the sinless, Divine Son of God!dal, sometimes of violence and bloodshed ...
you said go to Catholic sources.
---Andrea on 10/1/07

Andrea:: You said God wants Praise every day bolstered by a few others who share your thoughts .With the amount of praise God Gets he is surrounded by Praise what do you think He really wants Your undivided love affection & above all OBEDIENCE. 1StCom. LOVEof God & neighbour.what was the 1st sin that caused Him displeasure DISOBEDIENCE. What does He seek those without the stain of sin,repentant.
---Emcee on 10/1/07

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Andrea:: You said God wants Praise every day bolstered by a few others who share your thoughts .With the amount of praise God Gets he is surrounded by Praise what do you think He really wants Your undivided love affection & above all OBEDIENCE. 1StCom. LOVEof God & neighbour.what was the 1st sin that caused Him displeasure DISOBEDIENCE. What does He seek those without the stain of sin,repentant.
---Emcee on 10/1/07

The fact is there was a miasma of beliefs among different churchs from 100ad until 325ad. Who was a heretic was decided by votes of Bishops, doctrines was a matter of politics. The RCC does have an apostolic claim, unlike any protestant group, but in fact there were many groups claiming authority, the one under atheasianious, and which ascended to power, was one of many sects. (I note Ramon bailed on the LDS questions, maybe he wont here)
---MikeM on 10/1/07

Andera. Many of these you say have no merit according to Church History.

You said *There was no heirarchy*

Yes they was. Both the Bible and Church History affirm this. The Bible talks about Bishops, Deacons, (etc) all connected to one faith.

*The RCC keeps Jesus a defenseless baby or nailed to the cross.*

The Crucifix? No the RCC do not believe Jesus is still dead and defenseless! The Crucifix reminds Christians of the suffering our Lord went through for our Salvation!
---Ramon on 10/1/07

#2 Most of what you said simply do not have merit. There was an Church hierarchy long before the 1st Century. It is not my fault that you do wish to believe it.

* the early churches were clearlt independent of one another and early church writings prove this out.*

And all the Churches were connected to one faith that was taught in every Church in every land. Of course heresies kept popping up, but thank-fully the Church always guarded the truth......
---Ramon on 10/1/07

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I am not RCC, and have no intention of becoming one. Andrea, your knowledge of history is unique. There was a network of bishops long before Constantine, and at least the RCC has a claim to apostolic authority. can one single protestant 'group' make such a claim? You are advocating Gnosticism, where 'everyone is their own church-' that departs even from Luthers paradigm of 'preisthood of believers.' Luther was no less an autocrat than the RCC he denounced.
---MikeM on 10/1/07

Andrea::"Denominations were the only way of bringing Christ back into the church"so in essence you are saying Christ destroyed His own church & created littler ones.Really-if so, why are they NOT of one FLOCK,but Diversified.You are clutching at straws again while drowning and you know it.That is akin to despair.You have a Mother ask heras your child asks you(contd)
---Emcee on 10/1/07

andrea it would be nice if you would get off this Constantine kick and learn a little history. The church was solidifying in terms of structure and heirarcy well before the end of the first century. The major sacraments were used. Uniformity was pursued. You hate the Church because it makes you feel scared that you're wrong. It's not our problem.
---alexia on 10/1/07

Better to be in a small church of believers then in a big church of unbelievers.

Denominations were the only way to bring Christ back into the church. Otherwise we would crucify Him everyday and pray to Mary.
---Andrea on 10/1/07

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Andrea, that is a nice modern thought, too bad it cannot work. The Reformation proved beyond all doubt that if you remove the heirarchy you end up with a lot of different churches believing different things.

In the early Church there were many churches, just as there are hundreds of thousands of Catholic Churches today - all with a common magisterium sharing a common creed. The epistles were shared between the churches and gathered eventually into a Bible for use by all the churches.
---lorra8574 on 9/30/07

The early church had no pope - in particular a corrupt bishop would have been dis-fellowshiped.
There was no heirarchy and specifically no power structure like the civil gov't that 'lorded' power over the lesser bishops.

Constantine legalized christianity. Then bishops became power brokers and gave up following Christ.
Christians have always been followers of Christ not Roman Catholics.
---Andrea on 9/30/07

Revelations speaks to the churches - it speaks to 7 but there were many churches and one LORD.
We are all equal in Christ if we continue in Him. Many popes have not continued in Him and your papal succession became a farce.
Instead of repenting for the past indiscretions all I see is excuses and finger pointing. Plus the RCC continues in its heresies. You choose to follow a church when you could have a relationship with your Lord.
Not that you can't do both -
---Andrea on 9/30/07

I couldn't imagine staying in a church that glorifies itself and Mary.
The RCC keeps Jesus a defenseless baby or nailed to the cross.


Emcee - if you think that is argumentative -- so be it
---Andrea on 9/30/07

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Andrea:Does a baby knows he is a baby till he comes to the age of reason which is much later apply that to the early Church and Peter then, you may understand. We are not all born Einstines or arguementative.
---Emcee on 9/29/07

There was more connection between churches than you admit. Paul came to Jerusalem to discuss the Gentile need for Jewish ritual. His letters also were an attempt to keep everyone on the same page. Two things were always a part of the early church eucharist and baptism. The laying on of hands to transfer apostolic power is present in 1Peter, as well as in timothy.
---alexia on 9/29/07

Clement was already trying to heal rifts in rival churches by CE 95. One of his arguments was apostolic succession. These are the beginning formalizations into a heirarcy. The formation of a canon began to be discussed in earnest. John's gospel and Hebrews were not accepted initially. Synods were called as early as 170 or so to discuss common problems and a uniform solution.
---alexia on 9/29/07

Andrea, Why do you think that? Catholics have been Catholics since the first century, and the Church in Rome has been leading the Church from the Church century, long before Constantine legalized our Church. Ignatius is one of the Fathers that Catholics used as an example to help guide later Catholics when reading the Bible for themselves (it helps to have a historical context when reading scripture).

We are Catholics not Constantinians.
---lorra8574 on 9/29/07

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I've read the history lorra. Ignatius(110AD)used it once to describe the whole church and it was not applied to the RCC till post Constantine.
---Andrea on 9/28/07

Andrea, The term Catholics was used by the early Christians by the end of the first century. True, Peter may not have lived long enough to use the term, but the term reflected the universal nature of the Church compared to the isolated nature of Judaism.

As for Paul becoming Pope? How? One of his ordained ministers did become Pope but another successor was chosen after Peter - which was wise since Paul was executed only three years after Peter.
---lorra8574 on 9/28/07

Peter didn't even know a Catholic - he called himself a Christian.
Paul would have been Pope if pope were biblical. it is not and neither is the system of world govt church. the early churches were clearlt independent of one another and early church writings prove this out.

no Peter was not a Pope
---Andrea on 9/27/07

Andrea, glad you agree. While executing heretics may seem cruel and I am glad we do not go that far today, it was not something outside of God's acceptable conditions for His Church.
---lorra8574 on 9/26/07

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but those inside the faith knew better and were treated very harshly.

Matthew 18:6-9.
---lorra8574 on 9/26/07

---Andrea on 9/26/07

Andrea, you are correct in one thing - every Pope and every Bishop, Archbishop, priest, deacon, religious and lay person, will be held accountable for what they have done and what they have failed to do. The greater the authority given to them, the greater the accountability. So yes, it is possible that there may even be a pope or two in Hell, but that does not negate the fact that Jesus established a visible church with a hierarchy and a mandate.
---lorra8574 on 9/26/07

Andrea P2: And if you wonder about Jesus in all this, remember that when Ananias and Sapphira lied to Peter, God struck them dead (Acts 5). Those that were outside the faith were treated gently for their ignorance, but those inside the faith knew better and were treated very harshly.

Matthew 18:6-9.
---lorra8574 on 9/26/07

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