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Pay Tithes or Cursed

Pastors say pay tithes or you are cursed, i ask anyone to show me one scripture where jesus ever said to pay tithe,he said pay to Ceaser and pay to God and its the face of man thats on money.m..love

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 ---mae_osborn on 9/25/07
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Max the people that have the idea that it is not biblical to tithe, have been the ones that have mentored me spiritually and are some of the most Holy Spirit filled Christians I know but they cannot find the justification for tithing in the bible and I do believe that they give well in excess of 10%.
---Marty on 10/9/07


Though what I have noted in the world is that people that do give 10% (or more) of their income cheerfully do seem to flourish whether Christian or not. Personally I believe that this is the reflection of God's laws at work (note that it is the cheerful heart not 10% where people receive the blessing).
---Marty on 10/9/07


Max, tithing is contrary to grace, not self preservation. I do not tithe, however, I do give cheerfully and in secret (meaning I do not keep track so I can claim it on my taxes as a deduction). I give as the Lord has commanded, cheerfully and to those who need it.
---Ryan_Z on 10/8/07


According to Hebrew the Mosaic Covenant is abolished including the tythe. Only the moral law is brought forward from Moses to the NT. Under Moses, you are materially blessed if you you tithe and materially cursed if you do not. Both the tithe and the material blessings and curses connected with the tithe are abolished in the NT. There is no command to tithe anywhere in the NT. Fred
---Fred_Hutchison on 10/8/07


It is quite understandable for people like Ryan and Calhoon not to want to tithe - it naturally goes against human nature which wants self preservation. But for genuine Christians who are led by the Spirit and not by the flesh (you know we have so many carnal people here posing as Christians), they do tithe cheerfully without conjuring up excuses.
---Max on 10/8/07




Is it not true that they had tithing under the law, yet we are no longer under the law. But people claim that tithing existed before the law (and so apply now) and that Abraham gave 10% as an offering to justify tithing. However these were one off tithes for special occasions so it cannot be claimed that 10% is the fixed tithe. If there is not a fixed amount for tithing doesn't that describe more of an offering?
---Marty on 10/8/07


Calhoon,

Just because the church you go to some other pastors don't preach what the WHOLE Bible says that is not my fault. That is the problem with many churches today. 2 Timothy 4:3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine, but wanting to have their ears tickled, they will accumulate for themselves teachers in accordance to their own desires,
---denna7667 on 10/7/07


few stingy folks in here. i bet some of the same people feel good when they put their dollor in the offering. tell me a place you can go for live music and a hearty meal and get out only paying a buck. people want to pull up to the table and leave the bill for someone else. do you want to know who your god is, look at your check book. where do you spend most of your money. it comes to this, is God everything or not? is His word true or just the bits you like?
---Kraus on 10/6/07


If we wait to have faith to give then where does obedience come in. If we have faith then we can pay the tithe and believe God will do what He says He will do. If God is who He says He is then it is easy, we do what He says and wait for the blessings. I am all for it. And I want to be blessed and I am. I am so filled with joy of Him that every moment is a blessing.
---Marjorie_Neal on 10/5/07


Amen calhoon!!! Preach on my friend.
---Ryan_Z on 10/5/07




Preachers who preach tithing are cowards who have NO faith an dont trust in the giving principle.
---calhoon on 10/5/07


I'm not saying you are "cursed" as the original question asked, but I believe it is out of love, obedience, and being thankful for what God has given you. After all it belongs to Him anyway.

IN Luke 11:42 "But woe to you Pharisees! For you pay tithe of mint and rue.... If tithing were not important I really believe Jesus would have said something at this point.
---dena7667 on 10/5/07


the tithe is sacred, God said to do it and that is why we do and for doing it we get to have over flowing blessings, the devourer gets rebuked and the fruit of our ground doesn't get distroyed. It is a simple principle, and God spoke of it in the Old Testament and He is the same today, yesterday and forever so what He said then is for now. He even says to try Him to see what He will do. sounds like a good idea for me and being obedient is what is right.
---marge on 10/5/07


Matthew 23:1-3 Jesus said to the crowds... [about the Pharisees] ...So you must be careful to do everything they tell you.
Luke 11:42 ...Woe to you Pharisees...without leaving the former [tithe] undone.
So the tithe is qualified, right Denna?
---Tosh on 10/5/07


denna7667, tithing and giving are not synonyms. The tithe was a requirement under law, giving is done from a changed heart. Christians are instructed to give not thithe.
---Ryan_Z on 10/5/07


FYI. Just thought you would be interested, you can even watch the program through the internet everyday, but TODAY this is the very topic that Benny Hinn is teaching on "This is Your Day" and yes he talkes about the curse.
---Whisper on 10/5/07


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I believe that tithing is blessed: your remaining 90% goes further that your initial 100%. I believe that you can budget however, so if you offer 1% then your remaining 99% will go as far as you budgeted.
---Tosh on 10/5/07


Ryanz,

You are no different than some others here. Your interpretation is what you want it to be and nothing more. If you don't feel it is right to give to God's work, then don't do it. That is between you and God that provides it for you.

Guilt tithing is wrong I admit and never use that, but if you teach or talk "grace tithing" you are just as wrong. Neither one is correct biblically.
---denna7667 on 10/4/07


denna7667 Tithing has nothing to do with anything related to Christ or His Bride.
---Ryan_Z on 10/2/07


Tyanz,

You can't have it both ways. I quote you, "...since we are under grace..." It is by God's grace He shows His love for us sinners. That my friend has nothing to do with tithing.
---denna7667 on 10/2/07


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#1 denna7667, the term "grace tithing" is an oxymoron. No one can show that term to you in the bible because it does not exist. When you teach tithing you probably use Malachi (which was written to the Levites) then you go on about testing God with tithes etc...etc.
---Ryan_Z on 10/1/07


#2 denna7667, You probably never bring up Leviticus 27:30-34, Numbers 18 or Deuteronomy 14:22 & 26:12. You most likely never tell of the 48 cities that were given to the Levites and the necesity of the tithe to sustain these cities. If you, like most pastors, teach that the tithe is 10% of your monetary income then you are the false teacher.
---Ryan_Z on 10/1/07


Ryanz,

since we are under grace I ask you where in the Bible where we are under grace tithing. If you can show me that biblically you will be the first. You are a false teacher.

I have never used: "good guidline", "a show of obedience,", "you will be cursed if you do not tithe." Do I teach and preach tithing? I have admitted that and will continue to do so. But I certainly do not appreciate you calling me a thief.
---denna7667 on 10/1/07


#1 denna7667, I would be more than happy to tithe the tenth of my excess of the herd, the flock, the seed and of the land and bring it to the storehouse to test God if we were still under law, however, since we are under grace no pastor should ever teach anything concerning the tithe and how it is a, "good guidline", or, "a show of obedience," or, "you will be cursed if you do not tithe."
---Ryan_Z on 9/30/07


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#2 denna7667, There should be no offering plates passed around at services and there should be no requirement, implied or directly expressed, form any pastor for any of the flock to give. Giving should be done only under the inspirtation of the Holy Spirit, not mandates of a 10% minimum set by man.
---Ryan_Z on 9/30/07


#3 denna7667, Any pastor that teaches about the man-made 10% of your gross income tithe is a thief. Pastors should teach the truth of the tithe, who it was for, how it was done, and from what Israel tithed. The tithing doctrine taught thru-out denominations today is heinous.
---Ryan_Z on 9/30/07


You can read Malachi chap 3 and discern for yourself. I do not believe tithing is for today. Giving is.Read I Corinthians ch 9.
---Robyn on 9/29/07


Ryanz, (1 of 3)
I have never said tithing was "mandatory". In the verse from Exodus I quoted God has asked His people to, "bring an offering", so I do out of love and respect for Him. When God asks me to do something I do it.

I have preached on tithing but not as the main message. There is more than enough material to preach on salvation through Christ's blood and God's promises of His love for us.
---denna7667 on 9/29/07


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Ryanz, (2 of 3)
When God says challenge Me I do that as well. Malachi 3:10 "Bring the whole tithe into the storehouse, so that there may be food in My house, and test Me ..

The work of God is only done by those who give and care enough about their brothers and sister from their wealth and provision.

I dont appreciate you lumping me with pastors who preach guilt for not tithing or butchering of scripture. Maybe you should read about judging.
---denna7667 on 9/29/07


Ryanz, (3 of 3)
If people do not give out of love and respect to a God who provides for all He does for them then why do they? Whether you give to Gods work is entirely up to you. That is up you and you alone and between you and God. I give back to Him out of love and respect for Him and what He has done, is doing, and will do for His children.
---denna7667 on 9/29/07


Ryanz,

The God I serve deserves respect, dedication, and love in return for His many promises and the love He has not only for me but for all of His children. Are there some greedy clergy? You bet. Are there greedy lawyers, doctors, and mechanics? You bet. There will always be greedy people who prey on people. God gives me discernment to do what he has asked me to do in the way He has asked me to do it. Not to judge.
---denna7667 on 9/29/07


#1 denna7667, The tent of meeting constructed in the desert was built by free will contributions, not a mandatory tithe. The tent of meeting free will contributions does not support the tithing system that is found in most denominations today.
---Ryan_Z on 9/28/07


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#2 denna7667, You state:

**So I guess you are saying the church (body of believers) should not help the needy, the poor, the orphans, and outcasts.**

How you extrapolated that is beyond me. I never said that the work of the elect should not be done. My statement is that the work of the elect comes from their genrosity and sacrafice to thier neighbors.
---Ryan_Z on 9/28/07


#3 denna7667, This generosity and sacrafice is not mandated as 10% of their gross income to be paid to a building (where God does not dwell). The genreosity and sacrafice of the elect comes from divine inspiration not man's butchering of scripture.
---Ryan_Z on 9/28/07


denna7667, tithing is not out of love and respect. People tithe becasue scripture has been abused. People tithe becasue they are told they have to, they tithe because they are guilted into it, they tithe because they are told if they do not they will be cursed (i.e. scared into it). The doctrine of tithing that is taught today is not scriptural, it is vile.
---Ryan_Z on 9/28/07


Ryanz, (1 of 2)
That is how God's work is done, out of a willingness to of His people to give back what is rightfully His. So I guess you are saying the church (body of believers) should not help the needy, the poor, the orphans, and outcasts.
I am sorry you had a bad experience of finding a greedy pastor. There are greedy people in every walk of life.
---denna7667 on 9/28/07


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Ryanz (2 of2)
How was the temple that Moses built so that God could commune with His people? Exodus 25:1-2 And the LORD spake unto Moses, saying, 2 speak unto the children of Israel, that they bring me an offering: of every man that giveth it willingly with his heart ye shall take my offering.

If you chose not to contribute to the work of God that is your option and decision. I never said tithing was mandatory. But out of love and respect.
---denna7667 on 9/28/07


#1 denna7667, the comment that I made that thievery is practiced through many denominations today through their tithing doctrines does deserve a follow up response. First of all isn't it odd in a world where denominations squabble over many different doctrines that this is the one doctrine that is almost unanimously agreed upon?
---Ryan_Z on 9/27/07


#2 denna7667, We are commanded to worship in spirit and in truth. We are told that we are the temple of the Holy Spirit, no where are we instructed to build buildings of worship and gather in them every Sunday, in fact the bible explicitly states that God does not dwell in buildings made of stone. In response to your question of how these buildings, that we are not commanded to build or worship in, are to keep the electrical bill and other bills paid my response is this:
---Ryan_Z on 9/27/07


#3 denna7667, Should God decide to have the Bride of His Son build a building and fund that building then it will be handled in the same divine inspiration and means in which God has repeatedly provided. It will not be funded with wolves in sheeps clothing guilting people, telling people that they must tithe because it is obedience or telling people to tithe or else they are cursed. To tell any of this to one of the elect is an insult to grace.
---Ryan_Z on 9/27/07


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#4 denna7667, The main problem with the tithing doctrine is that it is a vile mishandling of scripture for a variety of reasons some of the most obvious are: 1) The tithe was never money, it was always agricultural goods paid to the Levites because the Levites received no inheritance of land and they had temple responsibilities. Because Levites had no land (they only had 48 cities) they lacked the appropriate resources to provide the basic necessities of life, this is why God instituted the tithe.
---Ryan_Z on 9/27/07


#5 denna7667, 2) Only Levites could receive the tithes. Since no pastor today can show they are descendents of AAron this is a clear violation of God's Law. 3) The monetary payment given to the Levites was called the Shekel of the Sanctuary. These are but a few of the reasons why the doctrine of tithing is vile and should never be accepted by a child of God.
---Ryan_Z on 9/27/07


Jesus says: "Woe to you Pharisees, because you give God a tenth of your mint, rue and all other kinds of garden herbs, but you neglect justice and the love of God. You should have practiced the latter WITHOUT LEAVING THE FORMER UNDONE" (Luke 11:42).

Please don't leave your tithe unpaid. Don't conjure up religious excuses and arguements to avoid it paying tithe!
---Jane on 9/27/07


For those who claim tithing is "thievery", how do you expect the church to do the work of God, pay electirc bills and for the building? I don't want to hear about what your pastor drives, where he lives, or what his wife drives. That is an individual church discipline problem. If that is a problem at your church take it up with leadership or find another church.

Not all pastors are greedy and worldly.
---denna7667 on 9/26/07


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As self-appointed representative of the pastors I really must protest truths like this being put on the Internet."The tithe, as taught in many denominations today, is nothing more than thievery."
---Ryan_Z on 9/26/07
---Mima on 9/26/07


Craig, Abram never tithed of his personal wealth. If you desire to use the account in Genesis as an establishment of the tithe then all Christians should tithe 10% of all their spoils of war. Or is your paycheck a spoil of war? The tithe, as taught in many denominations today, is nothing more than thievery.
---Ryan_Z on 9/26/07


You say "Pastors", as in all of them. Not all of them are the kind of people to put guilt trips on the congregation. Are there some? Yes. That is what makes it bad for the honest ones who preach and teach correct tithing but don't demand and put guilt trips on you.
---denna7667 on 9/25/07


2 Corinthians 9:7 Each man should give what he has decided in his heart to give, not reluctantly or under compulsion, for God loves a cheerful giver Tithing isnt about money its about faith Is your faith in God taking care of you or is your faith in money If tithing was in leaves would you have concerns Dont focus on threats of a curse focus on promises of His blessings Read Genesis 14:18 20 The first tithe and note that it wasnt asked for but freely given. Think of the blessings that Abraham received
---Craig on 9/25/07


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Read Malachi 3:8-10 says: 8. Will a man rob God? Yet ye have robbed me. But ye say, Wherein have we robbed thee? In tithes and offerings.9. Ye are cursed with a curse: for ye have robbed me, even this whole nation.
---ANN on 9/25/07


10. Bring ye all the tithes into the storehouse, that there may be meat in mine house, and prove me now herewith, saith the LORD of host, if I will not open you the windows of heaven, and pour you out a blessing, that there shall not be room enough to receive it. READ Acts 5:1-10
---ANN on 9/25/07


Malachi 3: 8, 10 tells us of paying tithe and Numbers 18:26 tells us the percentage with 1/10 or 10% of your earnings. any more questions just ask me
---TISHA on 9/25/07


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