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What Is Investigative Judgement

Want exactly is "Investigative Judgement" Where can I reference this in Scripture?

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 ---Mima on 9/25/07
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Jesus was the mediator of the New Covenant, not the Old with its animal sacrifices and sanctuary services. Therefore the types & antitypes of the tabernacle are not applicable to the New Covenant.

Christ entered the Holy of Holies once for all at His death of the Cross, not in 1844 as the Adventist would like to believe. Hebrews 9:11,12 pretty much established that fact.
---Lee on 2/16/08


Adventists believe Jesus fiddled around in the Holy Place of the Tabernacle until 1844 and then entered into the Most Holy Place.But Scripture tells us differently.

Hebrews 9:11,12 But Christ came as High Priest of the good things to come, with the greater and more perfect tabernacle not made with hands, not of this creation. Not with the blood of goats and calves, but with His own blood He entered the Most Holy Place once for all, having obtained eternal redemption.
---Lee on 2/16/08


gina - *The Jewish historian Flavius Josephus tells us that Herod died shortly after an eclipse of the moon...*

If you really believe Josephus is credible then you should also realize that his interpretation of Daniel 8:14 was fulfilled by Antiochus Epiphanes, Antiquities Book 10,chapter XI.

Sorry to break your bubble!
---Lee on 2/16/08


The Jewish historian Flavius Josephus tells us that Herod died shortly after an eclipse of the moon(Antiquities of the Jews, Book XVII, Chapter VI, end of 4th paragraph), but prior to Passover (Wars of the Jews, Book II, Chapter I, paragraph 3.) A total eclipse on occured January 10th, 1 BC at 1.35 am. If He died shortly after Jan 10, 1 BC, his attempt to kill baby Jesus was before this. This correlates with Jesus being born 4 BC
---Gina7 on 2/16/08


Herod was alive when Jesus was born: Mat2:16 "Then Herod, when he saw that he was mocked of the wise men, was exceeding wroth, and sent forth, and slew all the children that were in Bethlehem, and in all the coasts thereof, from two years old and under, according to the time which he had diligently inquired of the wise men." If Herod was dead shortly after Jan 10,1BC, the time of the Eclipse, his decree to kill all babies 2 years & under was issued most likely in 2 BC, going back to 4 BC.
---Gina7 on 2/16/08




Part 6: Adding 1810 years to AD 34, brings us to 1844 (2300 minus what was already used, 490) "then shall the sanctuary be cleansed". Once per year the High Priest cleansed the sanctuary on earth of sins.Lev 16:30 In heaven Jesus as High Priest does the same, in the going over the books of record and removing sins that are covered by His blood. Rev 14:7 "The hour of His Judgment is come" This was to happen in the last days, starting in 1844.
---Gina7 on 2/16/08


Part 5: Using 360 days to a year, add 483 years to 457 BC and it brings you to AD 27. This prophecy correctly predicted the coming of the Messiah and those Jews who studied the prophecies knew it! When Jesus started His ministry and was baptised by John, was at the end of the 483 years/the beginning of the the last week or 7 years. Jesus was crucified mid week, approx AD 31 and the stoning of Stephen 3.5 years later ended this week, and the 490 years allotted to the Jews, AD 34
---Gina7 on 2/16/08


Part 4: When did the 70 week prophecy begin? The decree of King Artaxerxes to restore and rebuild Jerusalem went into effect in 457 BC. The Bible in Ezra 7 says that it was in the seventh year of the reign of King Artaxerxes (I) when he issued the decree. Ezra went to Jerusalem in 457 B.C, and it was then that Ezra could enforce the decree. Therefore, 457 B.C. is the date to consider for the arrival of Ezra in Jerusalem and beginning of enforcement of the decree of king Artaxerxes I.
---Gina7 on 2/16/08


Part 3: Dan 9:25 makes it clear who is to come at the end of the 69 weeks or years is MESSIAH THE PRINCE, not the anti-christ or any false messiah. The last week, the 70th week, is not to be placed in the future and applied to an antichrist and called the 7 year tribulation period. This is completely a misapplication of scripture.
---Gina7 on 2/16/08


Part 2: Jesus was baptised in 27 AD, at the end of the 483 years, and at the beginning of the last week of years. Daniel 9:27 "And He shall confirm the covenent with many for 1 week, and in the midst of the week He shall cause sacrifice and oblation to cease.." In the midst of the week, or 7 years, Jesus died for our sins and the sacrificial system came to an end. In AD 31 Jesus died, 3.5 years after his ministry began in AD 27.
---Gina7 on 2/16/08




Part 1: The last week of the 70 week prophecy (which is a part of the larger 2300 day prophecy)predicts the baptism and death of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ. Dan:9:25 "Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and rebuild Jerusalem unto the MESSIAH THE PRINCE shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks.." This is 69 weeks or 483 years. The MESSIAH will appear at the end of the 483 years, and He did!
---Gina7 on 2/16/08


The core SDA issue is their insistence that the phrase "evenings and mornings"-an EXACT Hebrew translation of the words means, BYW actually means "years"//It is not the translatation that is in question. It is translated correctly as days or mornings/evenings, which means days. It is that Bible prophecy is interpreted 1 day for a year (Ezek 4:6, Numb 14:34), so for 2300 days, it is interpreted 2300 yrs. In Numbers it is 40 days in the wilderness (actually 40 years).
---Gina7 on 2/16/08


The Investigative Judgement was not made up, it was unsealed Present Truth from the book of Daniel, which was sealed until the last days. The last days started around 1798, the time when one prophecy ended, and the end time judgement in heaven started in 1844 per another. Revelation 14:7 "For the hour of his judgement is come" shows one of the end time messages being about the judgement, and represented as being so important that an angel is shown flying in the midst of heaven proclaiming it.
---Gina7 on 2/16/08


Daniel 8:14 predicts a very important event, which by cleansing the heavenly sanctuary, means that God is cleansing it from sin. This is a work of judgement.Dan 7:9,10 describe it "the judgement was set,and the books were opened". Once per yr the High Priest went into the Most Holy Place, to cleanse it from sins symbolically deposited there each day of the year. This represents the work of Christ as our High Priest since 1844. Rev 14:7 "the hour of His judgement is come"
---Gina7 on 2/16/08


The 1st part of prophecy of Dan 8:14, the 70 wks or 490 yrs, (Dan 9:24) takes us from BC457 to AD34, were cut off to the Jews, but after AD34,the gospel went to Gentiles. 2300 yrs minus 490 leaves 1810 to go, and brings us to 1844 AD. This is when according to Dan 8:14 "then shall the sanctuary be cleansed". This is the Heavenly sanctuary, where Jesus now ministers for us (Hebrews 8:1,2) As accurately as it predicted the the Messiah in AD27, it also predicts cleansing sanctuary AD 1844.
---Gina7 on 2/16/08


Daniel 9:27 "And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week, and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease.." From 457 BC to AD27 was 69 weeks of the prophecy. Using day for a year interpretation, 69 x 7 = 483 yrs. In the midst (middle)of the last week of yrs (7 years) Sacrifices were to come to an end, and they did when after 3.5 yrs Jesus was crucified. Add 3.5 yrs to Fall of AD27 and you have Spring AD31, when at Passover, Jesus was crucified.
---Gina7 on 2/16/08


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Any other interpretation, meaning, anything different that the day for a year, places the Messiah hundreds of years before He actually started his ministry in AD 27. And Bible scholars place the birth of Christ around 6 to 2 AD, and if age 30 in AD 27, He would have been born around 3 to 4 BC.
---Gina7 on 2/16/08


We know that Jesus was about 30 when He started His ministry from the gospel of Luke, chapter 3, verse 23 "And Jesus himself began to be about 30 years of age". John the Baptist, mentioned earlier in the chapter, who was 6 months older that his cousin Jesus (Luke 1:36, Mary became pregnant when John's mother was already 6 months pregnant)started His ministry when He turned 30, 6 months prior
---Gina7 on 2/16/08


Luke 3:1 "Now in the 15th year of the reign of Tiberious Ceasar" This is the year that John turned 30 and started his ministry, and Jesus later in the year also turned 30 and started HIS ministry. Tiberious Ceasar reigned concurrently for 2 years with Augustus Ceasar, AD 12 to AD 14, then on his own from AD 14. AD 12 plus 15 years brings us to AD 27.
---Gina7 on 2/16/08


Luke 3:23 tells us, And Jesus Himself began to be about thirty years of age The time period of these verses is after John the Baptist had begun his ministry and was just before Jesus began His. Since Jesus was 30 years old in A.D. 27, He would have been born in 4 B.C. Remember, we must add one year to compensate for no year zero. Thus, from 4 B.C., advancing 30 years brings us to A.D. 27.
---Gina7 on 2/16/08


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The Investigative Judgment view was an invention by the forerunners of the Adventists church designed to save face of those that were made fools from following William Millers false prediction on the 2d coming on Christ that was to occur on 22 October 1844.

Most Adventist pastors do not preach the doctrine bec if it very hard to defend from Scripture alone (they really need the writings of Ellen White to do so.)
---Lee on 1/31/08


JOH 5:24...I say to you,He that hears my word, and believe on him that sent me, has everlasting life,and shall not come into condemnation,but is passed from death unto life.
This verse is not teaching an IJ for believers. It is teaching the opposite. Jesus' words focus on the comfort inherent in the fact that He has defeated the enemy. The point of defeat is the cross, not 1844. "Now is the judgment of this world: now shall the prince of this world be cast out." (John 12:31)

cc
---Andrea on 10/20/07


Robin: Amen. They condemn those Keeping the Commandments and in doing so have no idea who they have cast thier allegience to.

"The time will come when they will seek to kill you and believe that they are doing Gods will"
---TS on 10/16/07


"I onced teased Jerry why Christ was taking so long to judge Christians." ---lee on 10/11/07
But do not forget this one thing... With the Lord... a thousand years are like a day. The Lord is not slow in keeping his promise... He is patient with you, not wanting anyone to perish... But the day of the Lord will come like a thief. The heavens will disappear with a roar, the elements will be destroyed by fire, and the earth and everything in it will be laid bare. 2 Pet 3:8-10
---robin8683 on 10/14/07


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Lee - do you think they'll sell night gowns and have slumber parties waiting for the Lord to come.
---Andrea on 10/11/07
Christ does not need to condemn you in the Investigative Judgement, you have done that yourself in your insulting words shown here. Anyone who is judged and lost, has only themselves to blame! Christ never spoke an unkind word to another. Can you see Christ mocking other Christians as you have done? absolutely not!
---Gina7 on 10/12/07


After all Christ according to the Adventists supposedly went into the Holy of Holies in 1844 to condemn those that love Him but have not observed the Hebrew Sabbath.
-lee 10/11/07
"Saying with a loud voice, Fear God, and give glory to him, for the hour of His Judgment is come.." Rev 14:7

What judgement is this ? And Christ condemns no one: they do that to themselves. If someone is lost at last, it will be their own choice.
---Gina7 on 10/12/07


To believe He left the Father's side to go into the Holy of Holies to judge Christians, really has no exegetic support.
---lee 10/9/07
Christ never left the Father's side, His throne is at His right hand (Heb 8:1) When "the judgement was set and the books were opened" (Dan 7:10) Christ and the Father went into the Holy of Holies.
Psalm 102:19
"For he hath looked down from the height of his sanctuary, from heaven did the LORD behold the earth"
---Gina7 on 10/12/07


The warning is for those who have accepted faith in Christ but are considering turning back to the rudiments of Judaism - Sabbath keeping, dietary laws, and other distinct Mosaic laws - basically the things Adventism is promoting.
---lee1538 on 10/6/07
No, you have read into this passage what it DOES NOT say. What it does say "If we sin willfully" and sin willfully means to break the 10 commandments, such as the 4th. You have it completely backwards. Read Hebrews 10 again!
---Gina7 on 10/12/07


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However, sin is not the violation of laws that are not applicable or obsolete laws promoted by Adventists.
---lee1538 on 10/7/07
Again you are reading your own interpretation into it, saying it is only 9 commandments, and not 10. It is the DECA-logue, and it does have 10 commandments, and the 4th was written by God's own finger, just like the rest. All 10 = Law, break 1 you have broken them all (James 2:10-12)
---Gina7 on 10/12/07


Gina - 2 Cor 5:10 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad.

True, but 1 Cor. 3 informs us that while our works will be judged, we ourselves will be saved even as by fire.
---lee1538 on 10/7/07
And our works are judged in the Investigative Judgement, either way!
---Gina7 on 10/12/07


Andrea *do you think they'll sell night gowns, have slumber parties waiting for the Lord to come?*

Millers' teachings that Christ would come again on 22 October 1844 totally ruined many financially, shipwrecked their faith.

1 Tim. 1:19 ...wage the good warfare, holding faith & a good conscience. By rejecting this, some have made shipwreck of their faith,

I onced teased Jerry why Christ was taking so long to judge Christians. His reply was that God doesn't do sloppy jobs.
---lee on 10/11/07


Lee - do you think they'll sell night gowns and have slumber parties waiting for the Lord to come.
---Andrea on 10/11/07


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The anniversary of the invention (new revelation???) of the Investigative Judgment is coming up on 22 October.

How are the Adventists going to observe this 163th anniversary?

After all Christ according to the Adventists supposedly went into the Holy of Holies in 1844 to condemn those that love Him but have not observed the Hebrew Sabbath.
---lee on 10/11/07


2Co 5:21 For our sake he made him to be sin who knew no sin, so that in him we might become the righteousness of God.

Adventists apparently believe that the 'stain of sin' is something that will last forever.

God judged His only Son for our sins as they were credited to Him. However, once that judgment was completed, the righteouisness of Christ was imputed to all who believed & accepted Him as Lord & Savior.
---lee on 10/11/07


The scapegoat cannot be Jesus because its blood is not shed. Without the shedding of blood there is no remission of sins. Nor is Jesus banned to a wilderness as satan is during the millenium. Thus when our sins are cleansed from Jesus and the sanctuary, they are placed on satan where they belong. Please, lets not insist that Jesus continue to be stained with our sins! Now that He has paid our penalty, let them be cast on Satan where they belong!
---robin8683 on 10/11/07


EGW strongly supported the doctrine that satan will one day bear the sins of of those who have truly repented. Thus she she believed satan will be our scapegoat.
---Kella3336 on 10/10/07
---Andrea on 10/10/07


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robin - *But Christ came as High Priest... with His own blood He entered the Most Holy Place once for all, having obtained eternal redemption. Heb 9:6-12

And that should blow to bits the theory that Jesus went from His Father's side to the Holy of Holies to begin judgment on those that love Him but have communal worship on Sundays.

Why make something that is simple into something that is convoluted and complex as is the Adentist IJ theory?
---lee on 10/9/07


pam - you posted "sin is not violation of the law says Lee:" but like a child of the devil, you did not post the entire quote.

I posted "However, sin is not the violation of laws that are not applicable or obsolete laws promoted by Adventists."

This has been a frequent complaint against Adventists. They may observe the 4th commandment but all too often they are proven to dishonor the other 9 commandments.
---lee on 10/9/07


"Christ... could not be of the same type that would go into the Holy of Holies as did the Levitical priests. ---lee on 10/8/07
"But into the second part the high priest went alone once a year...
the way into the Holiest of All was not yet made manifest while the first tabernacle was still standing. It was symbolic for the present time...
But Christ came as High Priest... with His own blood He entered the Most Holy Place once for all, having obtained eternal redemption. Heb 9:6-12
---robin8683 on 10/9/07


Sin is also leading people astray with false doctrines and false messiahs. Michael the arch angel is not your messiah (Jesus Christ)as EGW states, nor is Ellen White a prophetess for she gave false prophecies.

unless she is a false prophetess....
---caleb on 10/9/07


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If Christ was of the Melchizedek priesthood how then could He be of the type of the Levitical priests that ministered in the sanctuary & Holy of Holies?

Adventists wrongly believe there must be an antitype for every type in the Bible.

Christ went to the Father's side upon His ascension & at that place fully officiates as our Advocate & High Priest. To believe He left the Father's side to go into the Holy of Holies to judge Christians, really has no exegetic support.
---lee on 10/9/07


pam - I never once posted anything to the effect that sin was not the transgression of the law.

But there are those among us that believe we sin if we break a law that is either obsolete or not applicable to the church.

And one such law is the keeping of the Jewish Sabbath - we see nothing that commands it in the New Testament nor do we see breaking it listed as a sin.

Sorry but Christains follow Christ instead of the Mosaic law.
---lee on 10/9/07


sin is not violation of the law says Lee: READ 1JOHN 3:4 LEE: Whoever commits sin, also transgresses the law,for sin is transgression of the law..
---pam on 10/9/07


Any possible problem with the SDA Investigative Judgement doctrine! Its types are based upon the Levitical priesthood.

While priests administered the sacrifices in the temple / tabernacle, and went into the Holy of Holies once a year, all were of the Levitical priesthood.

Christ was of the Melchizedek priesthood and thus could not be of the same type that would go into the Holy of Holies as did the Levitical priests.
---lee on 10/8/07


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1 3 In answer to the scripture you gave in your last posts -

Gina - 2 Cor 5:10 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad.

True, but 1 Cor. 3 informs us that while our works will be judged, we ourselves will be saved even as by fire.
---lee1538 on 10/7/07


3 - 3 Gina - Romans 6:1,2 "What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound? God forbid"

As Christians become new creatures in Christ (2 Cor. 5:17) and are being transformed into the image of Christ, one certainly cannot continue in sin. However, sin is not the violation of laws that are not applicable or obsolete laws promoted by Adventists.
---lee1538 on 10/7/07


Here is a great statement by ---robin
"But God includes in His plan the total obliteration of sin. Our sins do not remain on Jesus and in the sanctuary. At the end, sin is totally removed. This is the cleansing of the sanctuary."
---robin8683 on 10/6/07
---Mima on 10/7/07


robin - God knew what He was going to do about the sin problem since before the foundations of the world.

On the cross He said "it is finished"
---caleb on 10/6/07


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The whole sanctuary service teaches us what God planned to do with the sin problem. Most understand the daily services that transfers our sins unto Jesus. This is as far as they want to take it. But God includes in His plan the total obliteration of sin. Our sins do not remain on Jesus and in the sanctuary. At the end, sin is totally removed. This is the cleansing of the sanctuary.
---robin8683 on 10/6/07


2 - 3 Gina - . Hebrews 10:26-27 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.

The warning is for those who have accepted faith in Christ but are considering turning back to the rudiments of Judaism - Sabbath keeping, dietary laws, and other distinct Mosaic laws - basically the things Adventism is promoting.
---lee1538 on 10/6/07


The SDA Investigative doctrine rejects the beliefs that one is saved by grace alone and that the believer has the righteousness of Christ imputed to him.- Lee 09/26/07

2 Cor 5:10
For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad.

There are books kept on all the good/bad deeds. The books are gone over prior to this judgment,which is the investigating of lives.
---Gina7 on 10/6/07


The SDA Investigative doctrine rejects the beliefs that one is saved by grace alone ..Lee 09/26/07

Hebrews 10:26-27 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,

But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.


Romans 6:1,2 "What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound? God forbid"
---Gina7 on 10/6/07


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It is obvious Lee that the Bible itself negates the concept of being saved by grace alone and living a life of sin, expecting to be saved. The difference between SDA and most mainstream churches is that SDA teaches salvation FROM YOUR SINS in the POWER OF CHRIST TO OVERCOME, but the rest teach salvation IN YOUR SINS, mistakenly calling that "salvation by grace alone" Romans 6:1,2 shows clearly this is not the case "Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound? God forbid"
---Gina7 on 10/6/07


"What then? Shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace, GOD FORBID" Romans 6:15.

Salvation by grace requires obedience to God and his 10 commandments once our past sins are forgiven. Jesus said to the woman caught in adultery "GO AND SIN NO MORE" not "GO AHEAD AND SIN BECAUSE YOU ARE UNDER GRACE" Not sinning, means, KEEPING THE 10 COMMANDMENTS. Jesus in essence told the woman, to go and keep the 10 commandments. We should be doing the same!
---Gina7 on 10/6/07


1-3 robin - Yes it would be totally pointless to debate Jesus location as Scripture is fairly plain that when He ascended into heaven, He sit at the right hand of the Father to be our Advocate and High Priest (Acts 7:55) and fully functions in that capacity and location.

There would be absolutely no need for Him to go into the Holy of Holies the place in the earthly sanctuary that represented the actually Presence of God.
---LEE on 10/6/07


2-3 Robin - Secondly, Daniel 8:14 speaks of the restoration of the temple sanctuary that was contaminated by the sinfulness of the pagans who conquered Jerusalem. There is virtually nothing in view here regarding the sins of the saints as the blood of Christ totally washed them away forever. (Rom. 3:25, Hebr. 9:12, 24)
---LEE on 10/6/07


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3-3 It is easy to see that the SDA Investigative judgment theory is nothing more than an invention by two semi-illiterate Millerites while walking across a cow pasture, sought a means to save face after the very disastrous second prediction of Christ return - an event that made destitute and fools out of many of those who fell under Millers inerrant preaching.

I reject and regard the SDA Investigative Judgment as it is extra biblical & contrary to Scripture.
---LEE on 10/6/07


The reference in Daniel to the sanctuary being cleansed indeed tells us that there would be an antitypical event for the day of atonement. The 2300 day prophecy brought us up to 1844. Thus this is the time that began the antitypical cleansing of the sanctuary.
We could debate Jesus physical location but that is pointless. What is important is the spiritual meaning of the cleansing of the sanctuary in relation to us today. See my other posts for that.
---robin8683 on 10/5/07


"Technically true, but she did fully support William Miller's prediction that Christ would return on 22 October 1844"

She responded to Wm Millier's teaching believing it to be true. She was greatly disappointed that it was not. What did she do at this point? She, with many others from all denominations went back to studying the Bible with much prayer and in the spirit of repentance and obedience.
This is what we should do when our preconceived beliefs prove to be in error.
---robin8683 on 10/5/07


Okay, apparently there is no reference to "Investigate Judgment". But let us move forward where in Scripture will I find the name of William Miller or Ellen white? Apparently these two individuals had a great deal to do with founding a denomination so where are they in Scripture?
---Mima on 10/5/07


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*I agree that Jesus took His seat at the right hand of God ...and made intercession for us (the antitype of the earthly priestly daily intercession.)*

But nowhere does the Bible indicate that Christ went into the Holy of Holies in the heavenlies - that is simply Ellen White's hallucinations.

Also there is not always an antitype for every type in the Bible and that is the basis for that faulty doctrine.

Christ at the right hand of God fully performs His ministry as our High Priest.
---lee on 10/5/07


*EGW never EVER set any date for the coming*

Technically true, but she did fully support William Miller's prediction that Christ would return on 22 October 1844 and that makes her an accomplice in that false prediction.

Sorry but your 'infallible' prophetess was wet as a fish swimming in a pond on this as well as other things.
---Lee on 10/5/07


Andrea: EGW never EVER set any date for the coming..you lied there..There was not even a SDA movement then n EGW was not even in the decision making counsel of those of Millers group..Preach truth Andrea/Lee..which name are you going to stay permanent on?
---jana on 10/4/07


Lee, I agree that Jesus took His seat at the right hand of God when he ascended into heaven and made intercession for us (the antitype of the earthly priestly daily intercession.)
The end of the 2300 day prophecy brings in the ministry of the Most Holy place. Here Crhist does more than grant pardon from sin. He purges sin from the deepest recesses of the human heart, the very unconscious mind and prepares His people for translation.
---robin8683 on 10/3/07


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robin - *This cleansing of the true tabernacle is not merely a doctrine to be ridiculed by Evangelical Christianity.*

Would you agree that Jesus upon His ascension took His seat at the right hand of God the Father where since He has become our intercessor? Lk. 22:69, Acts 2:33, 7:55-56, Rom. 8:34, Col. 1:3, Eph. 1:20, Heb. 1:3, 8:1,10:2, 12:2, 1 Pe. 3:22

Or did Jesus being both our High Priest & King have to wait until 1844 to gain the role as a judge & advocate?
---lee on 10/3/07


robin wrote: Christians today have been content to have the blood of Jesus provide a legal cancellation of their record of sin .....

yes - I do believe you have it.....and I'm glad you at least realize you do not.

It is by grace we are saved and not of ourselves........please think about that.
---Andrea on 10/3/07


As the Jews were enveloped in the routine of the sanctuary services being the goal of life and guaranteeing their salvation so Christians today have been content to have the blood of Jesus provide a legal cancellation of their record of sin without the law being written in the heart. In each case truth has been compromised for these were only a shadow of the real heart cleansing God intended.
---robin8683 on 10/3/07


We the body are sanctified and perfected with His laws written in our hearts and minds. This cleansing of the true tabernacle is not merely a doctrine to be ridiculed by Evangelical Christianity. It is a living, vital, flesh and blood experience of true Christians living in the last days. When the Bride of Christ accepts the eyesalve of heavenly insight she will come to grips with her infatuation with sin and decide she wants to be married!
---robin8683 on 10/3/07


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IJ - is some convoluted heresy Ellen White made up to explain why she was wrong about Jesus Christ not returning in 1844.

google it - it really very sad - you can never actually know your saved bc if you die with one unconfessed sin your toast - the recording angels follow you around and when Jesus gets around to judging you - you won't know it - very very strange
---Andrea on 10/2/07


Those that are living when Jesus comes will already have been judged. There will be those who appreciate the true meaning of the cross. They will prove that the gospel is the power of God and will display righteousness by faith. Heaven as a reward is not their motive but the vindication of God's name before the universe. Their sins are truely blotted out as in the typical day of atonement. They stand ready to be translated.
---robin8683 on 10/2/07


1/2)Uriah Smith said two things about this doctrine: first, the judgment began in 1844 and secondly, it would be short. No Adventist today can support both of these positions at the same time. At least one must be surrendered because the time period from 1844 until now is not a "short" period. Moreover, it is utterly impossible to biblically support the year 1844 as the beginning of the judgment. Ezra 7 was not a decree for the rebuilding of the city, but a temple decree.
---Andrea on 10/2/07


2/2)The year-day principle is not biblical as the SDA Conference President, Kai Arasola, pointed out in his book, The End of Historicism, Daniel 8:14 does not mention days, but "evening and mornings"a reference to the evening and morning burnt offerings. Thus, the TEV translates, along with most scholars of all denominations, "Unto 1150 days", not 2300 days.
---Andrea on 10/2/07


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It's no small wonder that those who have a problem with Mrs White also have contention with the clear word of God. Still it's their choice to accept or reject light-2 Chr 20:20b. The faithful recognize truth-Jn 10:27, Jn 10:1-5. I recognize my earthly dad's words well enough to know when someone else is quoting Him, likewise with our heavenly Father-Jn 7:15-18.
---Geoff on 10/2/07


JS a type of EGW Your way off the mark there Andrea: EGW's work was only a guide, remember that, A GUIDE. She never said it is God's word..infact she said her work must not be uplifted above God's Word as it is only a Lesser Light .. a guide..and the Bible is the Greater Light. does that sound like JS Andrea???way off the mark dear..You cant refute the beautiful writings of EGW.Who else do u know that wrote b.u.tifully of Christ? Noone but EGW.
---jana on 10/1/07


Robin - if it walks and quacks its still a duck

you can deny it but you have to twist scriptures to get your doctrine. Especially given that it includes judging others about the day they worship and the foods other people eat.
No individual is supposed to judge another - they are to be fully persuaded in their own minds.....
---Andrea on 10/1/07


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