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Jesus Talked To The Dead

I'm struggling with an issue regarding ghosts. I have encountered them, I am a Christian. I hear people say it is wrong, why? Whon't that only prove God afterlife and a need for redemption? Why did Christ talk to the deceased prophets, I believe in the book of Luke if there were not ghosts?

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 ---Rich on 9/29/07
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Rich, anyone who sees ghosts should first consult with a psychiatrist/neurologist to make sure he doesn't have a perception disorder.

Because, even if ghosts exist, they wouldn't have any physical presence that one could actually see.

Please, check with a physician. Seeing ghosts/demons/anything that isn't there can be caused by anything from a neurochemical imbalance to a brain tumor.

And you don't want to chance your health and life just to see those who've lost theirs.
---Nancy on 12/18/07


To---BILLY -- Well peter sure got fooled, he wanted to build a monument at that place.
---Mima on 12/18/07


Rebekah_Martin

The Mount of Transfiguration was a vision. Elijah and Moses was no more there than the moon being made out of cheese. Sorry...
---BILLY on 12/18/07


Christ Preached to Souls who were in the Prison House of Sin by His Spirit back in the Days of Noah when the Ark was being Prepared. He did not preached to dead in any pitchforked controlled underworld.
---TS on 11/9/07


"David is not ascended into the heavens" "Men and brethren..David he is both dead and buried and his sepulchre is with us unto this day" Acts2:29, Acts2:34. The Dead Sleep Await Resurrection: Jn11:11-14, Deu31:16, 2Sam7:12, 1Ki2:10, 1kin11:21, Job3:13, Job7:21, job14:12-14

Eccl9:5 "the living know they shall die but the dead know not anything..their love, and their hatred, and their envy, is now perished" Why deny this Rebeka?
---TS on 11/8/07




Another soul sleep example:

"The physical body and soul are together in this life, and, according to the Bible, we get a heavenly body at the resurrection, so if the soul can survive in the next life without a heavenly body, then why do we need to get a heavenly body at the resurrection? The truth is, the spirit stays with the body 'asleep in Christ' until the resurrection, at which time we receive a heavenly body and the spirit arises with it.
---John_W_in_Texas on 7/6/06 "
---Rebekah_Martin on 10/31/07


How would you explain the Mount of Transfiguration, Rebecca D?

Moses and Elijah appearing on the Mount with Jesus: Matt. 17:1-8, Luke 9:28-36
---Rebekah_Martin on 10/31/07


The SDA church also believes in soul sleep, are you SDA?
Scripture disproves Soul Sleep in Matthew 17:1-8. Jesus appears on the Mount of Transfiguration speaking to Elijah and Moses. Moses died. (Deuteronomy 34:5). Suddenly Moses and Elijah appeared to them conversing with him (Matthew 17:3). SDA church resorts to an illogical, unbiblical attempt to keep their doctrine. They state that Moses must have been resurrected. This is no where found in the Bible.
---Rebekah_Martin on 10/31/07


The Bible doesn't support Soul Sleep. Whenever the Bible speaks of sleep in death it is speaking of the body never the soul. The body is in need of resurrection. Never does the Bible indicate that the soul will be resurrected. The body will be awakened from "sleep" when the conscious soul is reunited with it at the resurrection.
---Rebekah_Martin on 10/31/07


Rebecca D, you believe in soul sleep.
Where do you think the OT men/women of God are today? Do you think they're still sleeping somewhere in the dirt?
God doesn't let His children take a dirt nap.
---Rebekah_Martin on 10/31/07




Luk 16:22 And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham's bosom: the rich man also died, and was buried. And in hell he lifted up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off,and Lazarus in his bosom.

Moderator - As one can see, Abraham's bosom and hell are NOT the same thing.
---Rebekah_Martin on 10/31/07


If Jesus told the thief on the cross that he would be with Him in paradise on Friday (Luk 23:43), then why did He tell Mary that He had not yet gone to Heaven on Sunday (John 20:17)?

Moderator - Paradise and Heaven are two different places.
---Rebekah_Martin on 10/31/07


Jesus said He would prepare a place for us in the Fathers house, Jn 14:1-3.
Paradise was where the OT Saints went. NT Saints go to Heaven.
A study of Hell, Heaven and Paradise will take some time but reveal this. Read Luke 16 and Isa 5:14 this foretells of the enlargement of Hell and about Paradise.
---Rebekah_Martin on 10/31/07


1/ Trey

It's true that no mortal "fleshly" man has ascended into heaven, much less on his own to learn the things of God. All that have ever entered the heavens could not do so without God letting them in in the first place. But flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of heaven as well. Before anyone can enter heaven, his flesh must die, but even then one has to be resurrected to take on there new spirit bodies. At this moment, the resurrection has not taken place.
---Billy on 10/30/07


2/ Trey

We must have a body to live in, whether in this life, or the life to come. We are not resurrected as soon as we die, and we don't receive our spirit bodies without a resurrection, so could you tell me how one continues to live as soon as they die if they haven't received there spirit bodies through being resurrected?
---Billy on 10/30/07


3/ Trey

You spoke of Rev 6:9. These souls were no more literally crying out for God to avenge them of there deaths than Able's blood crying out to God, "Gen 4:10." This is all symbolic language, not literal.

The rich man and Lazarus was a parable.

Matt 13:34 All these things spake Jesus unto the multitude in parables, and without a parable spake he not unto them:
---Billy on 10/30/07


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4/ Trey

Jesus told the thief, "I say unto you this day, you will be with me in paradise." If Jesus would have ment that very day, He would have went against the whole of scripture that teaches that there is no life till the resurrection.
---Billy on 10/30/07


Billy,

John 3:13 Christ is speaking to Nicodemus, and what he is conveying is that no mortal man has ascended to heaven, on his own to learn the things of God.

John spoke of the souls of the saints in heaven in Rev. 6:9.
Christ plainly speaks of Lazarus going to Abraham's bosom Luke 16:22 which is the same as heaven, which is the same as Paradise.
Christ assures the theif he will be with him in Paradise, etc.
---trey on 10/29/07


Lorra: I agree that Enoch and Elijah didn't die. I also agree that Moses died. But I do not agree when you said that the Archangel took Moses to heaven. Because the bible says no one has ascended into heaven but Jesus Christ. Jn 3:13. Enoch and Elijah will be the two witnesses that the book of Revelation talks about. All men are appointed to die once. Where did you get the idea that Moses was taken to heaven?
---Rebecca_D on 10/29/07


Lorra,

Where was Enoch taken up to? Was it the heavens that the angels reside, or was he transported through the heavens that the birds fly in? To believe anything other than the heavens where the birds fly would go against the words of Jesus.

John 3:13 And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.
---Billy on 10/29/07


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Billy, 2 Kings 2:11-13, true, if you are going to be technical, maybe he did not ride inside the chariot in the whirlwind, it certainly went with him, it is difficult to tell from the text.

As for Hebrews 11, Paul was not a twentyfirst century American, and did not speak in absolutes the way that we do. Yes most of the examples did die physically, but Enoch was taken up without dying, but the effect was the same - he was no longer with the living.
---lorra8574 on 10/18/07


---jack8937 on 10/4/07
You won't find the answer in the OT (Catholic or Protestant), Jude was quoting from an apocryphal work called the Assumption of Moses in Jude 1:9. In this work Moses was raised up, and Jude spoke of how this happened - Michael disputed with the Devil over the body and Michael won. If Michael had lost, Jesus would not have been able to talk to him in that vision on the mount in Matthew 17.
---lorra8574 on 10/18/07


1/ Lorra

Thank you for your comments. First I would like to see the scriptures that strongly suggest that Elijah did not die physically, much less being taken up in a fiery chariot. Was it a fiery chariot, or a whirlwind?

2Ki 2:1 And it came to pass, when the LORD would take up Elijah into heaven by a whirlwind, that Elijah went with Elisha from Gilgal.

If we can't even get it right as to how Elijah was moved through the heavens, how can we solve the issue of his death?
---Billy on 10/4/07


2/ Lorra

You claim as well that Enoch "Heb 11:5" did not die as well, but you disregard "Heb 11:13."

Heb 11:13 These all died in faith, not having received the promises, but having seen them afar off, and were persuaded of them, and embraced them, and confessed that they were strangers and pilgrims on the earth.

It does take some understanding to make sense as to why Enoch did not see death, and at the same time he died in faith, not have receiving the promise.
---Billy on 10/4/07


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3/ Lorra

The writer of Hebrews provides the fullest explanation of Enoch's fate.Verse 5 reads "By faith Enoch was taken up so that he might not see death, and he was not found because God took him up," While verse 13 concludes "All these died in faith, without receiving the promises." We are not told who was seeking Enoch to put him to death, but there has never been a shortage of opposition to those walking with God.
---Billy on 10/4/07


4/ Lorra

Seeing that Enoch didn't see death through those that sought to kill him would make would make perfect sense that not seeing physical death. The scriptures do not always give us a complete discription as to what happened. So I still don't believe that there is anyone that has ever been taken from this life, that hasn't went through physical death. God bless.
---Billy on 10/4/07


for lorra8574, I must have missed the part about Moses being carried to Heaven after he died. Deut.34:6 says "And he(I suppose speaking of the Lord unless Moses buried himself which I doubt)buried him(Moses) in a valley in the land of Moab,(partial)I don't understand why he would be buried before being carried to Heaven. Help me understand chapter and verse please. thanks
---jack8937 on 10/4/07


to just Jack, This is my first reply to this Blog so I went back and added 8937. Sorry about that. In reference to your statement that it could be argued that Moses never died I think Deut.34:5 & 7 says he did. Enoch and Elijah were 'taken' by God without first dying physically. There is a great deal of difference in someone(Jesus)ascending to Heaven and God taking(translating)someone without physical death.To long to go into in 85 words or less.
---jack8937 on 10/4/07


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Billy, the scriptures strongly suggest that Elijah did not die (unless he had a heart attack in that fiery chariot). And Enoch did not die, Hebrews 11:5 (for an example). And Moses did die, but was brought bodily up into Heaven after his death by the Archangel Gabriel. This was tradition that Jude was quoting from a book called the Assumption of Moses, the book is not considered to be inspired, but the fact of Moses assumption by Gabriel after a dispute with the Devil was clearly believed by Jude.
---lorra8574 on 10/3/07


Billy, the scriptures strongly suggest that Elijah did not die (unless he had a heart attack in that fiery chariot). And Enoch did not die, Hebrews 11:5 (for an example). And Moses did die, but was brought bodily up into Heaven after his death by the Archangel Gabriel. This was tradition that Jude was quoting from a book called the Assumption of Moses, the book is not considered to be inspired, but the fact of Moses assumption by Gabriel after a dispute with the Devil was clearly believed by Jude.
---lorra8574 on 10/3/07


Jack,

I did forget to say that I do believe that Elijah has died, just like all the rest before and after him. Scripture does not support the claim that anyone has been able to escape death. Even Jesus had to die before He could defeat death. But for the moment, Jesus is the only one who has been able to accomplish this great feat.

God bless
---Billy on 10/3/07


1/ Hello Jack

You did say that Elijah never died, but was assumed into heaven in a fiery charit, and that it could be argued that Moses had not died yet. So "if" Moses had not died yet and Elijah had been took up to heaven, where were thay for the hundreds of years before they spoke with Jesus on the mount?

I think the scriptures can give us the answer to these questions. I could be wrong, but Matthew says that Peter, James, and John had just seen a vision.
---Billy on 10/2/07


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2/ Jack

Mat 17:9 And as they came down from the mountain, Jesus charged them, saying, Tell the vision to no man, until the Son of man be risen again from the dead.

Jack, Moses and Elijah were not really there speaking to Jesus. Also the scriptures are clear as to what happened to Moses.

Jos 1:1 Now after the death of Moses the servant of the LORD it came to pass, that the LORD spoke unto Joshua the son of Nun, Moses' minister, saying,
---Billy on 10/2/07


3/ Jack

[2] Moses my servant is dead, now therefore arise, go over this Jordan, thou, and all this people, unto the land which I do give to them, even to the children of Israel.

So no, Jesus did not speak to dead prophets. The vision is proof of that fact.

I believe that I've proven by scripture that Moses did die physically. To understand the fate of Elijah, we still must let the whole of scripture answer this question.
---Billy on 10/2/07


4/ Jack

I believe that Elijah was caught away just as Philip had been caught away by Gods Spirit to be seen no more, "Act 8:39." But after Philips short lived friendship with the eunuch, he was found at Azotus preaching the gospel. If we were to be able to ask the eunuch what had happened to Philip, he would probably say that he was caught away to heaven to be seen no more.
---Billy on 10/2/07


5/ Jack

To argue this fact with the eunuch that Philip was still alive on this earth would be impossible without bringing Philip before him to prove this fact. The only thing that we do know is that the eunuch never saw Philip again. Because of Jesus saying that no man has ascended up to heaven, we are given no reason to believe that Elijah was carried up to any other heaven than that in which the birds travel.
---Billy on 10/2/07


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6/ Jack

Indeed it appeared to the sons of the prophets that he must have been deposited on some mountain or into some valley. The fact that he did not leave the Earth altogether is born out by the fact that he sent a letter to Jehoram in 2 Chronicles 21:12 years after Elisha had taken up his mantle. God bless...
---Billy on 10/2/07


The misnomer is contained in the word DEAD
1.Dead living in christ =they died in His good grace,so they are alive in christ.
2.Dead to Christ =those who died in "Total sin" refused God God will have no connection with them.LOST SOULS Forever.
---Emcee on 10/2/07


**
Are you sure that Moses and Elijah are in heaven? We must take the sum of Gods Word to see the truth of this matter. **

I never said that Mose and Elijah are in heaven. I'm willing to leave taht an open question.

My POINT is that Elijah never suffered physical death, and it can be argued that Moses didn't either.

So the premise that Jesus talked to dead prophets is false prima facie.
---Jack on 10/2/07


In every way possible, it is wrong. As john said, it's necromancy.
The fact that you're struggling without complete peace is another 'sign', that it is wrong.
Ghosts aka familiar spirits will hang/cling onto you as long as you allow them to. They do not want to leave a person.
Thomas couldn't believe without seeing either. Jesus says that your faith is greater if you can believe without seeing.
Many people will never visibly see an angel, but that does not mean that they are not around us.
---Michelle on 10/1/07


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Familiar spirits can appear as your dead loved ones. The devil is a liar. They can appear in photos, windows, walking down halls, anywhere that humans will tolerate them.
An honest question - are you comforted with the encounters - believing that your dead loved ones have your best interests at heart?
Do you counsel with them or ask their advice?
Do they give you advice without your asking?
---Michelle on 10/1/07


Jesus did not meet with dead prophets. The Bible is clear about conjuring up the dead.
The devil would prefer that you hang onto hope through familiar spirits because spiritually - they can destroy your faith.
The devil can prosper you through familiar spirits, even help you finacially to become successful - anything to keep that hook in your jaw. But it is a trap.
---Michelle on 10/1/07


People seek advice from the dead through mediums, psychics, seers or familiar spirits. They might help you make it to the top, but spiritually you will be dying on the inside. For every one truth, there will be nine lies. Eventually you can become so deceived, consumed and obsessed with death, that you will want to die. Your every thought will be about death, your faith will be made shipwreck.
This book does not have a happy ending. If you're enjoying encounters, you need a deliverance from them.
---Michelle on 10/1/07


If you have prospered from these familiars, are you suffering in other areas of your life? There's your 'sign'. Financially you may be succeeding, but are there areas where your family is falling apart? If so, it's time for a departure from deception. That means you will have to renounce all encounters with them, even if you really think your dead uncle Charlie is actually appearing, sitting on your bed - giving you great tips about the stock market.
---Michelle on 10/1/07


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Light and darkness do not mix. We can't serve two masters, will hate the one and love the other.
We can't have all of Jesus Christ and the devil's playground, too. Welcoming encounters with 'ghosts', deceiving yourself that it's helping you believe in the afterlife.... You may not find the afterlife or redemption that you're looking for.
Jesus Christ is the only Way to find that. Stop, cease and resist the devil's plans (plants) to destroy that for you.
---Michelle on 10/1/07


Jack

Are you sure that Moses and Elijah are in heaven? We must take the sum of Gods Word to see the truth of this matter.

Joh 3:13 And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.

Why would Jesus say such a thing if this were not true?
---Billy on 10/1/07


Rich, Jesus did not speak with ghosts. On the Mount of Transfiguration, when He spoke with Elijah and Moses, it's important to remember that Elijah never died, but was assumed into heaven in a fiery charit. The Biblical data about Moses is ambiguous (probably deliberately so), so it could be argued that he had not died yet, either.

So you need to revise your view that "Christ talked to deceased prophets," because, as you see, they were NOT ghosts.
---Jack on 10/1/07


I can't recall anywhere that Jesus talked to dead prophets. On the mount of transfiguration Moses and Elijah appeared in person. Purposly communicating with the dead is called necromancy and it is called witchcraft in the Bible. We should stay away from such communication unless God gives special permission. Are you maybe encountering demonic activity? You can tell them to leave in Jesus name.
---john on 9/30/07


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