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Adam And Eve Had No Faith

Do you believe that God established salvation on the basis of faith in Christ because of Adam and Eve's lack of faith in God?

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Do you believe that God established salvation on the basis of faith in Christ because of Adam and Eve's lack of faith in God?

No, I believe because the repationship God had with man from teh beginning was ended when Adam & Eve sinned.
Sin separated man from God. Jesus is that bridge that brings man back into fellowship with God.
---kathr4453 on 6/26/12


The ONLY way any fellowship one can have with God is to become a New Creature IN CHRIST. Our relationship with God is because we are IN CHRIST.

DEATH ended any relationship man had with God. Jesus death and resurrection, and our FAITH in His death as we Identify with Him in Death, raises us up a NEW CREATURE IN CHRIST.
---kathr4453 on 6/26/12


To have faith in God is to believe God who said He love the whole world so much He sent Jesu to taste death for EVERY MAN.

So, whosoever will amy come to find LIFE IN HIM!
---kathr4453 on 6/26/12


MarkV grow up and stop making false accusations.

Anytime anyone confronts you, instead of repenting, you justify your actions and make false accusations.

But Thanks A. Soto for your astute observation. MarkV's false accusations don't change teh facts.

Shira didn't confront me, she ATTACKED/assaulted me for no reason.

Thanks too Eloy, you are right on with your observations too!
---kathr4453 on 6/26/12


Soto, why hide behind another name? Ashame of your real name? And since only one person has the habit of changing names to insult others so people not know it was her, I say again,

kathr, stop using other names. You didn't like Shira opposing you, you didn't like me supporting her. It is an old story. Answer the godly questions with Scripture.
---Mark_V. on 6/26/12




Randy, ha ha, that's funny. I wouldn't be surprised at all. The dissers are like rebellious teenagers whom think that they know everything, but they are deceived because they have much much more to learn: like conversion has nothing to do with studying doctrine, but has all to do with throwing ourselves down at foot of Jesus and confessing our absolute need for him to save us and to change us into his will, for we are his workmanship created for him: it is all about him and his Godhood and not about our scholarly understandings of him.
---Eloy on 6/25/12


People who cannot make sense of their theology so answer with insults.
---Mark_V. on 6/25/12

this is a working example of irony.
---aka on 6/25/12


Upon investigation of taking the time to read this whole blog, I see we have here another incident of Shira making false accusations. I have already read and witnessed on the King James Version subject where Shira made unchristlike attacks with no basis for those attacks. These same attacks have taken place here.

What really troubles me more is to see MarkV in both these blogs encouraging and fueling Shira with no basis for why he got involved, except to say he used it as an opportunity to spew his own hared.

I'm beginning to see MarkV in a different light as I have read and witnessed with thorough investigation and an open mind MarkV and Shira may have purposely set out to set up someone for evil ends.
---A._Soto on 6/25/12


Eloy, how much do you want to bet MarkV will now accuse you of being kathr or vice versa.
---Randy on 6/25/12


kathr4453, A-men. I could not have said it any better. markv is thinks that he is a child of God, but his dissing words against Christians whom come from Christ prove that he is none of us. Brothers and sisters from Jesus love each other with the same love of Jesus that Jesus loves us with, but his heart shows no love from Jesus for the brothers and sisters, and his dissing fruit is not from our Christ. So his heart and life still yet remains to be converted into one of us kin. As long as he chooses to remain in obstinance he will not receive anything we post. There are a handful of people that I refuse to reply to because of their antiChristian and antiChrist behavior.
---Eloy on 6/25/12




but you make a choice to do it just like the rest who cannot answer with God's Word and resort to name calling as Kathr, Linda, Gordon and a few others. ---Mark_V. on 6/24/12

MarkV, this is why most on line here don't talk to you or answer you or ask you questions. BECAUSE they know your wrath will come upon them and they too will become victims of your temper tantrums, and slanderous remark. It's the only way YOU know how to fight.

Every one of us use God's Word, but you won't listen to his Word...because you believe you are the Word, and only your understanding is right.

You are your own worse enemy here.
---kathr4453 on 6/25/12


Kathr, It would be a great dream believing someone out there thinks about you every second of the day. Let me say that I don't even think about you until I read what you say about, my wife, son, or about me. Lies, when you misquote me and say I said something when I didn't and when you change your name to insult me. That's the time I feel like answering you like right now. It seems impossible for you to be saved because you never have changed from day one. I gave you a lot of chances to make peace, but you as well as some others throw it right back at me. AKa says, he is there for a good reason. His right both of you were predestined to be who you are. People who cannot make sense of their theology so answer with insults.
---Mark_V. on 6/25/12


FOR GOODNESS SAKE

GROW UP THE LOT OF YOU !!!

If you can't get on down here Lord knows where you will be all going fighting and at each others throats like this...
okay off the cuff remarks but

ITS A DISGRACE How in the name of JESUS The Christ...

CHRISTIANET allows this type of abuse one to another...

It BEAT's Me...


Is This Christlike???
---Carla on 6/25/12


"God did not give you permission to make a choice and slander me."
You made it yourself. ---Mark_V. on 6/24/12

Kathr doesn't slander you each day, that's the problem with you mark, every time you bring up my name you slander me. You bring up my name even on blogs I've never answered. My name is on the tip of your tongue night and day. You are obsessed with me, you dream about me, lay awake night thinking of ways to slander me.

God did not GIVE you permission dear MarkV to slander me! YOU do it all on your own, called FREE WILL! And you've taught another here to just throw my name around with hate too.

FREE WILL MARKV, I'm atleast glad your learning the meaning of the word.
---kathr4453 on 6/24/12


markv, i told you this. i did not call you names. i used comparison. there is a difference, and you make the comparisons easy.

the one time that i did call you a bully, i said that i stand corrected. i am fine with admitting my error.

and as you believe, your god did predestined me to be exactly as i am, so take it up with him and quit your crying.
---aka on 6/24/12


AKa, I told you this before, you are not the person I thought you were. You don't have a right to call me names as others have, but you make a choice to do it just like the rest who cannot answer with God's Word and resort to name calling as Kathr, Linda, Gordon and a few others. You are no different then them. "God did not give you permission to make a choice and slander me."
You made it yourself. Slandering your brother in Christ is sinful, and you chose to do it just like Kathr does each day.
---Mark_V. on 6/24/12


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Blogger86, you said,

"Mark, are you suggesting that their are "children of God" and "children of the devil" and Jesus only died for the children of God?"

I sure am. If you don't believe in Jesus, what can I say?

".. and "I lay down My life for the sheep"

There are sheep and there are goats, Jesus does not lay down His life for the goats. Do you not know you reacted as those that Jesus was speaking to?


"Therefore there was a division again among the Jews because of these saying, and many of them said, "He has a demon and is mad..." (John 10:15-20). You suggest He was be wrong too.
---Mark_V. on 6/24/12


Mark, are you suggesting that their are "children of God" and "children of the devil" and Jesus only died for the children of God?

Thats sound a lot like what the Jews believed when Jesus came around. Except they saw themselves as the children of God and the gentiles as the children of the devil.
---Blogger9680 on 6/23/12

in the 2.5 years that i have been here, he sure sounds like a pharisee to me.
---aka on 6/24/12


i said you were like a toady, a person who tries to please someone in order to gain a personal advantage.

---aka on 6/23/12

100% right on, here's PROOF:

--My dad did preach free will. we are all free to make a choice. my dad was anointed by the Holy Ghost. I don't know what markv believes but I have seen some of his post and I agree with most of his beliefs. Ye must be born again....we are born of water and spirit. water is natural birth and by the Spirit of a Holy God, we are born again.
---shira4368 on 6/22/12

Where is your rebuke to this???

OH I know, because you have gained personal advantage from Shira, YOU say nothing.

This is why many do not have respect for you.
---kathr4453 on 6/24/12


//There is a big list of name callers around here.// markv

i did not call you anything. i said "like a".

i said you were like a toady, a person who tries to please someone in order to gain a personal advantage.

i do not know how not expressing my views of murders and pedophiles translates into support for their actions. but, i am not going to condemn them. you can go ahead and demonize me.

if God gives us no choice as you believe, take it up with your god. He predestined those people for that just as your god predestined you.

you are exactly like the the pharisees that jesus spoke of..."i am glad i am not like them..."
---aka on 6/23/12


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Mark, are you suggesting that their are "children of God" and "children of the devil" and Jesus only died for the children of God?

Thats sound a lot like what the Jews believed when Jesus came around. Except they saw themselves as the children of God and the gentiles as the children of the devil.
---Blogger9680 on 6/23/12


If you were a parent of a little boy or a little girl who got murdered and raped you would not bleed for the pedophile molesting murderers, I don't care how holy you think you are.
By the way, I am not a toadeater as you suggest, but a child of God.
---Mark_V. on 6/23/12


Should we bleed for you MarkV? Messing and molesting raping and murdering one's soul is far worse and God's Judgement will be far worse.
---kathr4453 on 6/23/12


Aka, stand in line with the others. There is a big list of name callers around here. True holy Christians, with hearts bleeds for the pedophiles and child molesting murderers.
I haven't heard one of you who complain to me concerning this subject ever speak for the children raped and murdered only for the salvation of the murderers.
Where is the compassion for the little boys and little defenseless girls they murdered and the families they destroyed? If you were a parent of a little boy or a little girl who got murdered and raped you would not bleed for the pedophile molesting murderers, I don't care how holy you think you are.
By the way, I am not a toadeater as you suggest, but a child of God.
---Mark_V. on 6/23/12


I am very much in control of my emotions. I don't bully anyone...I want God to open the gates of hell for them and give them what they deserve--- MarkV

I stand corrected. You are not like a bully, you are like a toady.
---aka on 6/23/12


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After Adam and Eve sinned, it was the "Voice" of the Lord that was walking through the garden.
Interesting how the "Word" appears just when you need Him most.
---micha9344 on 6/23/12


Cynthia, The Lord God Jesus made mankind, then he showed his goodness to man and proved that he indeed is trustworthy towards them which are obedient, and so he reassures his people to trust in him because he himself is faithful and just.
---Eloy on 6/23/12


\\The first humans had faith in the Lord God Jesus, and I believe that they also loved him,\\

And just HOW could they have had faith in the One who had not yet been incarnate and been given the name Jesus, or love Him??

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 6/23/12


Blogger96, don't wonder about my salvation, wonder about yours. I am responsible before God, not you. I know whom I support in this world, God's children. Not the children of the devil. Child murderers and molestors do not love God, your heart can bleed for them, not mine.
"Jesus said to them, "If God were your Father, you would love Me, for I proceeded forth and came from God, nor have I come of Myself, but He sent Me. Why do you not understand My speech? Because you are not able to listen to My word. You are of your father the devil, and the desires of your father you want to do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and does not stand on the Truth, because there is no Truth in him" (John 8:42-44 and v.47).
---Mark_V. on 6/23/12


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The first humans had faith in the Lord God Jesus, and I believe that they also loved him, but they listened to the serpent who is the father of lies, and therefrom disobeyed God's instruction and they suffered the prophesied result for their disobedience. Whenever the tempter comes knocking on your door, simply tell him "Go away loser, your firey pit is prepared for you."
---Eloy on 6/22/12


I think the idea of an afterlife is just wishful thinking -- good wishes for yourself, and bad wishes for people you don't like. :)
---Catholicus on 6/22/12


//An attack that divides the Goats from sheep. How do you attack someone who serves the same god as yourself? //

Carla, Truth divides goats from sheep.
---aka on 6/22/12


I want God to open the gates of hell for them and give them what they deserve

Any time I see a Christian make a comment like that, it makes me wonder if they even know Jesus Christ.
---Blogger9680 on 6/22/12


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I want God to punish all child murderers, but God might want to save some

Proof that what you desire is not what God desires. This should give you cause for concern and a reason to examine if you truly have the Spirit of Jesus Christ living in you! Maybe its time to stop coming here acting like a teacher and go back to being a student.

I want God to open the gates of hell for them and give them what they deserve--- MarkV

Its what we ALL deserve! Even you! Or have you not read that yet?
---LindaH on 6/22/12


Wow, Christianity makes people around here really weird!
---Catholicus on 6/22/12


Aka,

An attack that divides the Goats from sheep. How do you attack someone who serves the same god as yourself? He servers the risen Christ and so allegedly do others.

If his understanding is from what he has been taught stand up all those who practice, all should speak the same gospel, preach the same gospel and live the same gospel.

So now there is no one standing shame on those who think they alone know the truth, you all know it....IN PART and understand it IN PART...

A bit like "He who is without sin..."[cast the first slander] wisdom.


Shalom
---Carla on 6/22/12


MarkV, this country was founded on immigtants from it's very inception. Everyone who came to America, apart from the Native Americans came from all over the world. But they did it the legal way. And many were also turned back too due to health reasons etc.

I've spent time in Mexico in various places, and believe me I LOVE Mexican people. I could tell you stories that would bring tears to your eyes.

But the thread was about ILLEGAL aliens, and what that is doing to our country.

YOU truned it into being about poverty, And that Poverty JUSTIFIES illegal behavior.

Why are Mexicans an exception to this rule? Poverty NEVER Justifies illegal behavior.
---kathr4453 on 6/22/12


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MarkV wants us to believe all the Mexicans have to do is say, "I'm in America illegally, be merciful to me a sinner", and we're suppose to grant them forgiveness and let them stay.

So America, in his thinking should grant them the gift of repenting of breaking the Law, and let them stay.

He uses God's word and twists it to his own advantage. Do we illegally break into God's Kingdom and THEN SAY, be merciful to me a sinner because I'm here illegally? So according to MarkV, God SHOULD let them in...RIGHT MARKV??





OR:

You want America to say WHO SO EVER WILL May Come, yet when it comes to the Kingdom of God...YOU stand and block the doorway!

So Yes AKA MarkV's hypocricy really sets me off.
---kathr4453 on 6/22/12


Kathr, you said,

"MarkV..believes there are sins that God cannot and will not forgive no matter what...
Another lie.

I believe God can forgive anyone. So you lied again. What I want and what God wants and does are two different things. I want God to stop you from lying and be a good Christian person, but God wants to permit you to continue for a reason I cannot understand? I want God to punish all child murderers, but God might want to save some. You on the other hand want God to open the gates of heaven for them. I want God to open the gates of hell for them and give them what they deserve.

Aka, I am very much in control of my emotions. I don't bully anyone, I understand many will not agree in everything.
---Mark_V. on 6/22/12


I have been reading some of these blogs from the shaddows ---Jed on 6/19/12

Yep, and then fulfilled Psalms 10 with some stupid remark that I was an Oprah Winfrey liberal crapper.

Just another moronic comment.
---kathr4453 on 6/22/12


I have been reading some of these blogs from the shaddows and not saying anything. Just watching what conversations unfold and I have come to a conclusion: That Kathr ...
---Jed on 6/19/12

that kathr and markv have little self-control and they are more into bullying than building up and they must have been in very difficult circumstances that make them lash out.
---aka on 6/21/12


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You see Shira, read MarkV's post very carefully. He believes there are sins that God cannot and will not forgive no matter what. He doesn't believe God will GRANT his list of sinners the gift of repentance. You see by his answer he is very bitter and hateful to those who preach WHO SO EVER WILL.

I know you're baptist.

Elder believes in the Rapture, so do I...Markv does not.

Elder knows the difference between Israel and the Church...MarkV does not.

So if you have a family member who is not saved...MarkV's doctrine tells you that God did not die for his/her sin. That God chose for that person to go to hell before the foundation of the world.

So suck up all you want to him, YOU ARE WORSHIPING A HERETIC.
---kathr4453 on 6/21/12


What markv is so blind to is that he IS that murderer, molester, rapest. Every day he murders, rapes and molests anyone who stands up for the Gospel that Jesus died for ALL.

Markv only sees the physical act, yet God looks on the heart. It's HATE that motivates one to murder. You don't have to pull teh triger to murder someone. His first wife would tell you that if she could.

Rape is not a sexual thing, it's a power thing. MarkV loves having or believing he has some sort of power in controlling you. Just look at the HATE he expressed for LindaH and I and all who believe Jesus died for the sin of all men everywhere. HE HATES IT. Just look a that hate/murder/rapest in his words.
---kathr4453 on 6/21/12


"God, I thank You that I am not like other men-extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even as this tax collector. I fast twice a week, I give thithes of all I possess.
And the tax collector, standing afar off, would not so much as raise his eyes to heaven, but beat his breast saying, "God be meerciful to me a sinner"
---Mark_V. on 6/21/12

REALLY markV, The tax collector said that?

You don't even know scripture to quote.

No markv, you just say, thank God I'm not a rapest, murderer, etc...

Man MarkV you are truly mentally Ill.

Does your right brain know what your left brain is saying half the time??

Or do you truly have MPD?
---kathr4453 on 6/21/12


kathr, wow what a pious attitude. I am a college graduate with a masters degree...I think I can read very well. Elder is a man of God and lives what he preaches. instead of attacking me why don't you learn to read yourself. God will bless you.
---shira4368 on 6/21/12


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elder believes John 3:16 which is elementary reading. you need to come back down to earth and get real. God will even bless you for doing that.
---shira4368 on 6/21/12


MarkV, who said we didnt have a bleeding heart for the children that are the victims? It is very possible to love the victim AND love the aggressor as well. Once again you're just trying to paint us as evil (twisting words as you do to everyone else) and all because you are convicted of your own bitterness towards certain sinners.

You sir are just as scummy as a child molestor. So am I! Do not doubt it! But you are still loved by God!

THAT is humility and that it what you must be willing to accept before you can be saved by Jesus Christ! God shows mercy to the humble and resists the proud. Come down off of your pedestal and you will then see the truth.
---LindaH on 6/21/12


Wwell Shira, Elder believes in whosoever will. MarkV does not. So if you really know what you were reading you would know there is a difference.

Why would I go head to toe with you concerning something I was agreeing with you on??

I really think you have a problem reading for one as MarkV does, because neither of you know the english language and words past a 4th grade level.

Stop creating trouble here Shira. You lied about me, and now like markv, want to justify your lies.

GO AWAY!! OR maybe you are MarkV..it wouldn't surprise me if you were.
---kathr4453 on 6/21/12


markv...guess we are still liars. that is a giant conclusion kathr put on the blog. I have challenged her to go head to toe on other threads. Markv I don't know all your doctrine but I have read enough to know you are one of the few with bible knowledge. elder is another.
---shira4368 on 6/21/12


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Kathr, now you want to sound as if you have changed with your nice words, then to finish by saying"

"And you must take a stand for what is right and wrong. I see you advocate dishonest entry into this country."

You suggest I am dishonest. That I advocate dishonesty? I wish you guys didn't have such a distorted view on things.
You and Linda support saving all the child murderers and molesters and for God to lovely open the gates of heaven for them, because you guys have a bleeding heart for them, not the children they murdered, and here you criticise me for speaking for people who need help for their families who want a better life for them. Just shows your corrupt mind.
---Mark_V. on 6/21/12


But I want to thank you also for helping me learn even more about my Lord and Savior. When you write something I look at Scripture to see if you are right just as I do with all the blogs I see. ---Mark_V. on 6/19/12


I'm glad I can be of help MarkV. But it takes more than looking up scripture. You must OBEY those scriptures. You must believe those scriptures.

And you must take a stand for what is right and wrong. I see you advocate dishonest entry into this country. That says a lot about you. Please don't continue advocating dishonest entry into God's Kingdom. There are rules and Laws. You cannot be a law unto yourself, because you think you are deserving.
---kathr4453 on 6/20/12


I have been reading some of these blogs from the shaddows and not saying anything. Just watching what conversations unfold and I have come to a conclusion: That Kathr is a liar. Any thread I have seen her on she has no idea what she is talking about. Mostly just spewing some sort of Oprah Winfrey liberal crap.
---Jed on 6/19/12


Kathr, if you just stopped your rediculous accusations, people would take you seriously. But every post it is more. I'm glad Shira will not answer you. She would have to put up with you as I have for years. But I want to thank you also for helping me learn even more about my Lord and Savior. When you write something I look at Scripture to see if you are right just as I do with all the blogs I see. You said:

"NO ELECT bears false witness against another."

you do not believe in the elect, and you make comments like that? and you even said,
"comments against another, meaning another elect" you. Now you are one of the elect, kind of change who you are.
---Mark_V. on 6/19/12


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Don't tell me, tell God!

This is always what happens to the PROUD when they cannot produce any evidence of their false accusations.

Your excuse is only an excuse shira. Just like a small child who fails to take responsibility for their OWN ACTIONS by placing the blame elsewhere.
---kathr453 on 6/19/12


Ok ok ok, thanks markv, I appreciate your comments and support. Kathra, I won't even respond to you because you just don't get it. You are a waste of time and space. I've read all of your post.
---shira4368 on 6/19/12



Proverbs 19:5 A false witness will not go unpunished, and he who breathes out lies will not escape.

Proverbs 19:9 A false witness will not go unpunished, and he who breathes out lies will perish.

This is God's Word, not mine.

NO ELECT bears false witness against another.

Arrogance Shira is not apologizing when wrong. Arrogance is not being repentant over sin.

The opposite of arrogance is humility.

So humble yourself under the mighty hand of God (not MarkV) and SAtan will flee from you..so will MarkV who is encouraging you to SIN!
---kathr4453 on 6/19/12


Shira, all you need to do is apologize for making false statements. Show me where I teach sinless perfection or even make a comment on this thread.

Just as MarkV's PRIDE will not apologize, I see your pride will not let you either.

16 These six things doth the Lord hate: yea, seven are an abomination unto him:

17 A proud look, a lying tongue, and hands that shed innocent blood,

18 An heart that deviseth wicked imaginations, feet that be swift in running to mischief,

19 A false witness that speaketh lies, and he that soweth discord among brethren.

You both won the prize!
---kathr4453 on 6/19/12


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kathr, I don't know what birds of a feather means. Second, I encouraged Shira for standing up to you, now that takes guts because you come down with your wrath on those who do, and amen those who believe as you do.
Third, God gave me authority to be head of the household, because I love the Lord my God with all my heart. My wife reads your comments and cannot believe they allow you here. Because you claim to be saved you should love me, but you sure don't. You want me to agree with your false teachings, but I cannot betray my Lord just to make friends with you so that you can amen me. Some others can do that.
---Mark_V. on 6/19/12


MarkV , birds of a feather..right.

Show me where I posted here, and show me where I teach sinless perfection.

If you were fair and BALANCED you would correct Shira, not encourage her and slam me for rebuking a lie.

MarkV, you are such a meddling old woman it's not funny.

Doesn't your wife find that strange that YOU'RE not the MAN of the house. I really can imagine the cat fights at your house...tooth and nail right!
---kathr4453 on 6/19/12


kathr, thanks for the lesson you've given me. wow, maybe I forgot how to read. I won't get into you and your beliefs...I know what the bible says and that is all I need. when you try to correct someone you are really making a fool out of yourself. you think you are right and you may be right some of the time, but you are very arrogant here in cn.
---shira3268 on 6/19/12


Sister Shira, like the believers in the New Testament were warned, I also warned you to be very careful going againt Kathr. You will find yourself having to answer her attacks forever. I love you and thank you for speaking out. I know not many ever say anything and I know why. Some have left because they don't want to waste their time having to fight her as Shawn M.T and some others have done. Put on the armor of God for you will need it, when she changes names and comes from all directions. Thank you so much for your support for the Truth. I just wish more people would stand up for the Truth. But God only knows those who will.
---Mark_V. on 6/18/12


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markv, here we go again. You are absolutely correct about foreknowledge. Man was punished because he disobeyed God. kathr why do you think your are sinless? all men (and women) sin every single day and hour. If you say you have not sinned you are wrong. I have been saved for many years and I know I have sinned because I am flesh. my spirit is saved but my body is dying a little more each day.
---shira4368 on 6/17/12


well shira4368 are you another markv, making up lies about people again?

First of all I have never posted on this question and secondly, I have NEVER in my life said I was sinless. As a matter of fact, I have rebuked Haz27, Eloy and those who teach such things.

Next time you post please be careful.
---kathr4453 on 6/18/12


markv, here we go again. You are absolutely correct about foreknowledge. Man was punished because he disobeyed God. kathr why do you think your are sinless? all men (and women) sin every single day and hour. If you say you have not sinned you are wrong. I have been saved for many years and I know I have sinned because I am flesh. my spirit is saved but my body is dying a little more each day.
---shira4368 on 6/17/12


Cynthia, God established salvation before the foundation of the world. We are told that Christ was
"foreknown indeed as a sacrifice for sin before the foundation of the world" ( 1 Peter 1:20)
Paul speaks of "the eternal purpose" which was purposed in Jesus Christ our Lord (Eph. 3:11).
The writer of Hebrews refers to "the blood of an eternal convenant" (Heb. 13:20). A covenant between the Godhead, before the creation.
And since the plan of redemption is thus traced back into eternity, the plan to permit man to fall into the sin from which he was thus to be redeemed must also extend back to eternity, otherwise there would have been no occasion for redemption.
---Mark_V. on 6/17/12


Do you believe that God established salvation on the basis of faith in Christ because of Adam and Eve's lack of faith in God?
---Cynthia on 10/4/07

NO

The standard of righteousness is SINLESS LIVING ( complete obedience to the law of God)

Once adam and eve sinned, they could no longer claim that righteousness for themselves. They had to have righteousness imputed to them

They then had to trust in God ( have faith) That jesus would do as he promised:
Genesis 3:15 it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.

Faith then is based on the promises of Jesus that he would die for our sins and give to us his perfect righteousness
---francis on 6/14/12


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Obedience is faith. If you trust God you obey him. Disobedience is a result of having lost faith in God, even if just momentarily.
---Jed on 6/14/12


The subject is correct. Faith is not believing that God exists. Faith is believing what God said, and acting upon it. James says that "faith" without works is "dead". Eve had worthless faith. She knew God existed, but did not believe what he said- believing in his substance, but not God's character. Satan's attack, "DID GOD SAY..." undermining her belief in the Goodness of God. She put faith in the devils words, and lost all she had. God had created her in his "IMAGE" and his "LIKENESS". Satan said, "When you eat, you will be LIKE GOD." She was already created LIKE GOD. She lost that LIKENESS when she ate the fruit. Jesus restores us through faith into the "LIKENESS".
---Nate on 6/14/12


Thanks Jack8937, and God bless!
---Cynthia on 10/6/07


It's okay Cynthia, I think everyone knew what you meant. Until God gave Adam his first commandment there was no such thing as FAITH. Faith is not involved or necessary to believe in someone you are standing there looking at and talking too. From the day God gave Adam that first commandment until today, still the same. Believe what God said and live, believing anyone over God and you still die.
---jack8937 on 10/6/07


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Salvation is from sin. It is not because of a lack of faith, but because of Adam and Eve's sin.
---Helen_5378 on 10/6/07


My understanding of what FAITH is, believing what God said without having to see. Faith without works is DEAD. Had Adam and Eve believed what God said,that if they ate of that tree they 'would really die, would they have done so anyway? By doing so, they chose to believe someone else 'other than God'. Many people think that believing 'IN' GOD is all that matters.Every devil believes in one God and tremble.Do these devils have FAITH and will they be saved?
---jack8937 on 10/6/07


Sometimes when I post a blog, I do not word it quite right. I am sorry everyone, what I should have posted was not lack of faith, but lack of obedience. Thank you to all who pointed that out. God Bless!
---Cynthia on 10/4/07


Who said that Adam and Eve didn't have faith in God? They had faith in God, they feared God. Cause Eve told the Serpent that she shall surely die by God, if she touched the fruit. Satan told her differently. they had to have faith in God. Even after they disobeyed God, they still had faith and feared him.
---Rebecca_D on 10/4/07


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I agree with Michelle. Adam and Eve had faith to begin with, but they let Satan talk them out of it.
---Delora on 10/4/07


I think God established salvation by faith because Adam and Eve and the entire human race was lost. Not because of their lack of faith.
---john on 10/4/07


Adam and Eve had faith. They disobeyed God, not the same as lack of faith.
Adam had faith to walk and talk with God in the garden. God gave Adam faith to live among the animal kingdom without fear. Fear is the opposite of faith. Adam and Eve fell down because that serpent of old deceived them. Like us, they were created beings, humans - not divine or gods. They fell, we fall. God gave us salvation because sin entered in.

Michelle. MMR
---Michelle on 10/4/07


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