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People Deny Old Testament

Is Jesus the God of the Old Testament? He is the Creator (Col 1:16). He said the OT was about Him (John 5:39). He was the Rock that followed Israel in the wilderness (1Cor 10:4). He predated Abraham (John 8:58). Then why do some Christians deny the OT?

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Andrea, did you consider those conditions before baptism recorded in the Bible? What about your wedding vows? Were there any? The relationship between God and the church is very similar to marriage. Yet you say, "I cannot imagine what your people think they are doing by making people commit..." What's wrong with commitment?
---Geoff on 11/8/07


Joshua 24:15
And if it seem evil unto you to serve the LORD, choose you this day whom ye will serve, whether the gods which your fathers served that were on the other side of the flood, or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land ye dwell: but as for me and my house, we will serve the LORD.
---Geoff on 11/8/07


'THAT QUIZ WAS QUITE INTERESTING I WOULD LIKE TO TRY IT OUT bible HISTORY.
---carrie on 11/8/07


TS: "Keep the Commandments Andrea, Jesus did"

Yes, He had to, to fulfill the Law. But when He did, He did away with the Old Covenant, the old way of sacrifices, and having one place of worship (Jerusalem).

Just because Jesus did it doesn't mean we are supposed to. Jesus was also crucified for our sins. Does that mean we should be physically crucified for others sins?
---Adam on 11/2/07


Nicolette, keep asking those good questions, and demand good answers!
---John1944 on 11/1/07




Andrea: That period you deplore was known as the Great Awakening. Check the History Books. It was a time of intense religious study and a time where the great missionaries began to work. It was the time when the American Bible Society was formed. You lump SDA's as a Cult yet the Chaplain of the Senate and the Pentagon would beg to differ with you. Many Seventh-day Adventist serve in highly regarded positions.

Keep the Commandments Andrea, Jesus did, and SDAs do well by following Christs example
---TS on 10/29/07


For the antiworks crowd, check this out, Ephesian 2:10. "For we are God's workmanship, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do."
---dan on 10/27/07


Andrea says: Not to rely on law but Christ..obviously Andrea you have totally missed it again..Christ is the Word and the Law John 1:1,2,14 and made flesh and dwelt amongst men..The law is a transcript of His Holy Character we all need to conform 2 tobe Christlike Rom8:29, 1Cor15:49,2Cor3:18 etc.. Right? Absolutely..
---jana on 10/26/07


Rev. 18:4 Babylon isn't just pagan systems--but false religion masquerading as Christianity.
---djconklin on 10/26/07
funny you should bring that up. as christians we are very aware of the situation with false religions. The fact that so many started around the same times makes me wonder if it isn't a religious spirit. Bt 1830-1880 the LDS, SDA, JWs and CS all began.
---Andrea on 10/26/07


the new testament is is the old testament revealed and the old testament is the new testament concealed
---spiritlead on 10/26/07




I am a Christian, and I truely believe that you can not take any of the OT nor NT out of context. The Bible was written by man but God is the Author and Finisher. I think the reason some people deny OT is because they are the type whom are in denial that God is in Christ by Spirit. They might not have true Faith, maybe?
---Victoria on 10/26/07


Andrea

What are your preconceived notions of Jesus Christ, Jesus the Messiah? Are you willing to allow God to reveal to you who He really is? Are you willing to allow God to radically change your ideas about Jesus? Are you willing to let Jesus be Jesus, on His own terms?

This is where most people mess up, they say he is Christ BUT along with other preconcieved ideas of who they THINK he is, SIMPLICITY is not enough to satisfy their carnal minds.
---CiNdY92714 on 10/26/07


3)
The Good News is that Christ is King NOT through power,NOT through coercion,NOT through manipulation. He is King through His Suffering.

The Cross is central to the Christs mission (V20-21)
Then he warned his disciples not to tell ANYONE.
From that time on Jesus began to explain to his disciples that he must go to Jerusalem and suffer many things at the hands of the elders, chief priests and that he must be killed and on the third day be raised to life. (Matt 16:20-21)
---cInDy92714 on 10/26/07


4)
It was not until AFTER Peter confesses that Jesus is the Christ that Jesus began to explain his plan to die for the sin of mankind. He warned them not to tell people that He is the Christ because their PRECONCIEVED notions of what the Christ would do (that is, be the great military/political revolutionary leader) did not match up with his divinely appointed task.(iT'S why some Jews are still waiting for the "messiah" but that will be the anti Christ)
---cInDy92714 on 10/26/07


4)
It was not until AFTER Peter confesses that Jesus is the Christ that Jesus began to explain his plan to die for the sin of mankind. He warned them not to tell people that He is the Christ because their PRECONCIEVED notions of what the Christ would do (that is, be the great military/political revolutionary leader) did not match up with his divinely appointed task.(iT'S why some Jews are still waiting for the "messiah" but that will be the anti Christ)
---cInDy92714 on 10/26/07


5)

After his death, they are all depressed and scared and bewildered. It wasnt until the tomb was found empty that they remembered Jesus words. He had been telling them: I must be killed and on the third day be raised to life!


But the disciples concept of Jesus as the Messiah was very different from Jesus own. Jesus busted up their preconceived notions, their man-made ideas of who He is. He explained to them that His Messiahship meant that He would die.
---CiNdY92714 on 10/26/07


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Andrea
Who do you say I am?
Simon Peter answered, You are the Christ, the Son of the living God. (Matthew 16:15-16)

The title, Christ is the Greek form of the ancient Hebrew word, Messiah. The Messiah is another word for the special anointed King of Gods People.

He is the King of kings Lord of lords..He is God Son, the WORD BECAME FLESH, the Son of the Living God.
This is the FOUNDATIONAL revelation! (v. 17-19)
---CiNdY92714 on 10/26/07


2)aNDREA
If you miss this, then you have no foundation on which to build your faith! Jesus is the ONE! He is the Messiah! He is the Christ, the Son of the Living God! There is none like Jesus, the Christ.

There was only ONE Christ, only ONE Son of the Living God. Its the truth revealed in that wonderful verse that I hope most of us have memorized: For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. (John 3:16)
---CiNdY92714 on 10/26/07


Andrea: You are welcome. God simply asks us to relay the truth.
---TS on 10/26/07


Lee: "It is easy to see why Adventists have problems getting along with other Christians."

Actually, I get along fine with most Christians. Especially the one's that study the Bible. Try reading the whole Bible: Rev. 18:4 Babylon isn't just pagan systems--but false religion masquerading as Christianity.
---djconklin on 10/26/07


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CinDy - I understand that may seem insulting to you, its just the 85 word limit. It was not meant to be. It was to acknowledge we don't get theology tests before we enter heaven. We are asked - "who do you say I am?"
so RCC who love the Lord will be with the Lord as difficult for us to understand sometimes. As well as well meaning pentecostals and adventists.
I can't say that about lDS and JWs they can not answer the 1 question Jesus asks.
Who do you say I am?
---Andrea on 10/26/07


CiNdy - thank you for recognizing I love Christ. And I have gone to former pentecostal sites (they are usually UPC- I'm not).
I encourage all denominations to be objective about what they believe. Truth has no bounds and in Christ we need not fear.
If you still want to remain an adventist I'd encourage you to make sure you have that personal relationship with Christ to not rely on the law but to rely on Christ. But you can stay an Adventist and be a christian as can a Catholic stay a Catholic.
---Andrea on 10/26/07


2) Andrea,
Take your own advice, look up the differences of ceromonial SABBATHSSS, AND GOD'S holy Sabbath, The LAWS OF ORDINACE, AND THE 10 COMMANDMENTS. Believe me they are 2 different things, JESUS DID NOT ABOLISHED THE 10C. or God's Holy SABBATH with it.

What he DID ABoLISHED were the laws of SACRIFICIALS THAT WERE outside the COVENANT.
(Col 2:16, Eze 45:17, Deut 31:26)

THE 10C are INSIDE the Covenant(DEUT.10:5) written by GOD HIMSELF(EX 31:18)
---cInDy92714 on 10/26/07


1)
Andrea, I think you sincerely love God and follow Christ, but at the same time you Lack knowledge and you hold STRONG to your opinon rather then for the scriptures TO speak to you. I truly pray that you grow in WISDOM AND kNOWLEDGE WHILE THERE IS TIME.

YOU SAID in one of the blogs: If you want truth it is out there. Whenever you want to know all about something go to the former (whatever) and then back track through the other sites and verify the information.
---Andrea on 10/25/07
---CiNdY92714 on 10/26/07


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TS - *I truly believe you worship the Roman Beasts Image and accept the Beasts Signet (Mark) of Authority*

It is easy to see why Adventists have problems getting along with other Christians.


But what can be said of the children of Hagar?

Ga 4:29 But just as at that time he who was born according to the flesh persecuted him who was born according to the Spirit, so also it is now.
---lee on 10/26/07


I truly believe you worship the Roman Beasts Image and accept the Beasts Signet (Mark) of Authority
---TS on 10/25/07

thank you for your honesty
---Andrea on 10/26/07


nicolette - it is only those that have come into the reality of the Presence of Christ into their lives that are given understanding of spiritual things. 1 Cor. 2:14.

Jesus told Nicodemus (John 3) that we must be born from above in order to be saved and that is an experience realized by those who have received Christ into their lives.
---lee on 10/26/07


In my search for understanding of the christian faith, it is in these situations that I become confounded. What I read and understand of the Holy Bible and what christians say seem to contradict (I humbly stand to be corrected). If the only physical evidence of the Most High God is the written word then I would think that doctrine is crucial. How else do you come to know Christ apart from it? And if you do not know Christ, how are you saved?
---nicolette on 10/26/07


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Andrea: Let Christ establish Law of Love in you..EXACTLY DEAR..exactly..you denied it when I blogged u a while back about the Laws of Love,. It is Christ Himself..Your body is the temple of His Holy Spirit..He is the Word, OT and NT all of it..not just part as most of u say..Laws a transcript of His Holy Character we all need 2conform 2 to b Christlike..
---jana on 10/26/07


Andrea: "One of the many reasons for not judging others on foods and sabbaths"

There's no verse in the Bible that says that.
---djconklin on 10/25/07


Andrea: Bad Doctrine will send one to Hell:
"If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand, The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation, and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb" Rev14:9

I truly believe you worship the Roman Beasts Image and accept the Beasts Signet (Mark) of Authority
---TS on 10/25/07


After months blogging with SDAs even I am surprised by your vows. I cannot imagine what your people think they are doing by making people commit to a denomination.
Remnant church'
spirit of prophecy
even if these doctrines were true -- it is still a stumbling block to Christ
---Andrea on 10/25/07


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Andrea, of course Christians grow in the faith, but if you use that kind of reasoning to avoid commitment in your marriage you're in a lot of trouble. Hope you didn't say "I'll go ahead and marry a man who is not committed to me." There are certain fundamentals that must be understood. We don't trick people into accepting something they didn't really understand what they were getting into.
---Geoff on 10/25/07


TS - as far as bad doctrine - doctrine doesn't save you. You won't be asked if you knew your denominations doctrines - you will be asked if you know Christ.
You will be judged as you judged.
One of the many reasons for not judging others on foods and sabbaths
---Andrea on 10/25/07


no dear - I do not teach lawlessness. I preach grace and Jesus Christ crucified for you.
Not Ellen White crucified for you.
look at His work not your own.

It is by grace that you are saved and not of yourselves so that no man can boast

Let Christ establish His law of love in you.
No man will see God by the works of the flesh
---Andrea on 10/25/07


jerry: Yet even Willful Sin will be forgiven upon repentance. Pray for thier conversion from the carnal lusts that hold them in disobedience to Gods Commandments.
---TS on 10/25/07


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Andrea: You are party to defending bad doctrine. You Preach Lawlessness. You make no distinction between that which is Holy: God's Law and that wich is of man.


1Jn2:3-5 And hereby we do know that we know Him, if we KEEP HIS COMMANDMENTS. He that saith, I know Him, and keepeth not His Commandments is a liar and the truth is not in him"
---TS on 10/25/07


all vows are to Christ -- not to your denomination. No I am convinced now -- you are a cult.

13 vows to be baptized -- unbelievable. and worse you defend it.
You must pay tithes to be baptized PAY TITHES!!!!!

wikipedia has all the vows
---Andrea on 10/25/07


Cindy: There none so blind as those who will not see.
---jerry6593 on 10/25/07


Where is the vow??

Act 8:36 Now as they went down the road, they came to some water. And the eunuch said, "See, here is water. What hinders me from being baptized?"
Act 8:37 Then Philip said, "If you believe with all your heart, you may." And he answered and said, "I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God."
---Andrea on 10/24/07


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Lee: Adventist are in Christ. "They Keep the Commandments of God and the Faith of Jesus"

I'll pray for you to Keep the Commandments of God that reveal true faith and conversion in Jesus, "Who Created ALL Things"
---TS on 10/24/07


Geoff - Christians are expected to grow in Christ and take on His character. But not before they rae baptized. When you defend bad doctrine you become party to it.

if you make a person pledge to believe what your church teaches before baptism they are being baptized into your church. Not the body of Christ
---Andrea on 10/24/07


Andrea, "where in the bible is there a vow taken before someone is baptized into Christ"? Ever read Acts 8:26-38, 19:1-5 and Mt 3:7-8.

"Where does it say you will support the church?" Ever read 1 Cor 16:1-2? Also Lv 27:32, Mal 3:8-11, Mt 23:23, Acts 20:35 & 1 Thes 5:14

The church is our spiritual family.

1 Timothy 5:8
But if any provide not for his own, and specially for those of his own house, he hath denied the faith, and is worse than an infidel.
---Geoff on 10/24/07


Geoff - where in the bible is there a vow taken before someone is baptized into Christ. I know people need to live good lives etc but where does it say you will support the church?
Where does it say you must do anything before you get baptized?
but most cults have a number of pledges taken before membership

baptism is between a person and Christ not bt you and your church denomination
---Andrea on 10/24/07


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Andrea, are you married? Did you vow? The church is Christ's bride-Rev 21:2, 12:1-2, Mt 9:15, Is 43:1. Have you promised/covenanted to follow Jesus or are you avoiding commitment? Are you only "shacking" with Him? He won't have it. I support my family & church because I love them & Jesus-Lv 27:32, Mal 3:8-11, Mt 23:23

But if any provide not for his own, & specially for those of his own house, he hath denied the faith, & is worse than an infidel-1 Tm 5:8
---Geoff on 10/24/07


TS - what really needs to be done is to pray that Adventists not only will come to Christ but acquire the gift of discernment as there are many false teachers that have attacked the gospel message of the church. We can see that as Adventists has supported doctrines either declared to be heretical by the church or have invented new ones not seen in that "faith once for all delivered to the saints" (Jude 3)
---lee on 10/24/07


Cindy, DJ, Geoff: Forgive them and Pray for them to recieve the Holy Spirit.
---TS on 10/24/07


dj - The SDA requires 13 vows before baptism

how is having to make a vow to believe the SDA church is the remnant church supported by scripture?

How is promising to pay tithes and pay for the upkeep of your church before baptism scriptural?
maybe a person just wants to be a christian - but then I guess they should go to a christian church
---Andrea on 10/23/07


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djconklin - *All 28 fundamental beliefs of the SDA church are fully supported by Scripture--that's why the texts are given.*

Yes, those texts are carefully selected to support those unique beliefs and are in accordance to the interpretations from Ellen White.

We should realize that the Bible can be made to support just about anything one wishes to believe. All one has to do is to give any particular verse the proper twist.



---lee on 10/23/07


Again, to begin to really understand the New Testament one must understand the basics of the Old. And God absolutely started me out in the Old Testament. Now this tells me something and that is the Old is important. Not more so, but indeed much so.
---catherine on 10/23/07


Lee: "Too many beliefs are highly questionable and very difficult to defend from either a historical or biblical standpoint."

All 28 fundamental beliefs of the SDA church are fully supported by Scripture--that's why the texts are given.
---djconklin on 10/23/07


Lee,
"The covenant that included the church is different from the one He made exclusively w/ Israel"

Correct.
The covenant that was exclusive to Israel was everlasting. And now we've been grafted into Israel (not the reverse) and all the promises made to Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, David, etc are ours. In ADDITION we have the NC that was promised to ISREAL & JUDAH in Jer 31:31.
---AG on 10/23/07


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Lee,
"We need to view only the New Testament for our doctrine...not the Old Covenant declared obsolete (Hebr8:13)

Did Jesus teach NT or OT doctrine?

Again, in context, Heb 8 is dealing with the PRIESTHOOD of the law, not OBEDIENCE to the law. Obedience isn't obsolete.

You must accept that God didn't give the law as a means of salvation. All it ever did was point us to salvation. It is the combination of obedience & FAITH that ALL men have been justified by.
---AG on 10/23/07


Cindy - *God NEVER ment for his words to be confusing or HIDDEN from those who seek him.*

True, but it is those who do not "rightly dividing the word of truth" (2 Tim. 2:15)that have problems.

And usually those that are really confused are those that fail to make the distinction between the Old (and obsolete) Covenant and that of the New - using old wineskins for new wine.Mk. 2:22
---lee on 10/23/07


ANDREA!
"THINK NOT that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am NOT come to destroy, but to fulfill. "For verily I say to you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall IN NO WISE pass from the law, till all be fulfilled (in force, being performed)."


Think! The 'law' included all Scripture and NONE of it is done away! Jesus said in Mat. 4:4 "Man shall not live by bread alone, but by EVERY WORD that proceeds out of the mouth of God."
---CiNdY92714 on 10/23/07


Andrea,
I encourage U to grow in wisdom and understanding. Read the bible for what it is, not having your opion FIRST rooted into it and then trying to "USE" the bible for your intepretation for "your" preconcieved biased opinion. If you truly have a PURE HEART seeking for the TRUTH, it is there, God NEVER ment for his words to be confusing or HIDDEN from those who seek him. The WORDS in the Bible does not CONTRADICT itself, but men do, they do it for their OWN purposes.
---CiNdY92714 on 10/23/07


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AG - *The HS directs us to God's way of life which hasn't changed since creation.*

God's nature has not changed but He has dealt with His creation in terms of covenants.

The covenant that included the church is different from the one He made exclusively w/ Israel,

We need to view only the New Testament for our doctrine & Christian walk, not the Old Covenant declared obsolete (Hebr8:13)


---lee on 10/23/07


Geoff - I agree with you that one needs to look at both sides - pro & con when it comes to Adventism. In doing so, I find that much of what constitutes Adventism does indeed have its downside. Too many beliefs are highly questionable and very difficult to defend from either a historical or biblical standpoint.
---lee on 10/23/07


Andrea, apparently my response did not get through. As I thought, your sources are hostile, biased & unreliable sites like "exadventist." How can we trust your statements if you haven't checked things out for yourself and rely on such?
---Geoff on 10/22/07


Every denomination is cult-like.

Each having their own rules, regulations, traditions, interpretations of the Bible, and watered down cookie-cutter sermons. Will you ever see a Lutheran pastor lead a Baptist congregation? In fact, if Jesus were walking the Earth today, He would be rejected by most denominational churches to preach. True prophets of God would not be allowed to set foot in a denominational church.
---Steveng on 10/22/07


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Lev 19:1-37 The Ten commandments and the ceremonial law are mixed together without distinction and called "My statures and all My ordinances"

these were those that Jesus nailed to the cross.
Another scripture you deny
---Andrea on 10/22/07


Ellen White has had no influence here.
I'm not an SDA. I was raised So. Bapt.
However the bible does make it clear that we are to live by God's guidelines (His law), which the HS operates within. The HS directs us to God's way of life which hasn't changed since creation. In the beginning was the Word...
---AG on 10/22/07


Geoff: Why is it that instead of listening to the Plainest Scriptures they divert the conversation to a sleeping saint that is not here to defend herself?

Is it too difficult for them to prove thier stance with the Bible alone as White did?
---TS on 10/22/07


geoff if you go to exadventist outreach they will explain in detail why SDA is a cult and help support you if you want to come out.
---Andrea on 10/22/07


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You must be born again and then live like you know it.
---Andrea on 10/22/07

That's right! How can a born-again even think of violating God's Commandments?
---Geoff on 10/22/07


You cannot be made right with God by observing Ellen White or the mosaic law.
You can only be reconciled to Christ by accepting what He did on the cross.

You must be born again and then live like you know it.
---Andrea on 10/22/07


Lee,
You said, "...no need for a new covenant with the old one being declared obsolete"

In context, Heb 8 is dealing with the PRIESTHOOD of the law, not OBEDIENCE to the law.

Obeying the law is not obsolete.

You must accept that God did not give the Mosaic law as a means of salvation. Keeping the law perfectly would not get anyone a ticket to heaven. It is the combination of obedience & FAITH that ALL men have been justified.
---AG on 10/20/07


Lee,
Follow-up on Rom.14
The debate that Paul addressed was whether or not to eat meat left over from a sacrifice by the pagan priests, eaten by the offerer and his friends at a pagan feast in the pagan temple, or sold in the public meat market. Some Christians felt that if they ate such meat, they participated in pagan worship and thus compromised their testimony for Christ. Other Christians did not feel this way arguing an idol is nothing. It represents no real god and possesses no power, etc.
---AG on 10/18/07


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Lee,
You compare Acts 21:25 to Rom 14:21 & call it "a compromise".

These verses aren't symmetrical.

Paul is instructing the STRONG in the faith to assist those who are weak by abstaining from things that are may be acceptable, i.e. drinking wine.

Conversly the council is instructing the WEAK in the faith on the MINIMUM standard for fellowshiping with other believers, which was to abstain from things that will NEVER be acceptable to God, i.e. fornication, idolatry.
---AG on 10/18/07


AG,

IT SEEMS no matter how much we tell them that ceromonial LAWS are different from the 10C, they still have an unwillingness heart to ACCEPT the truth! It's true that God is the only one who can DRAW THEM IN, but I think you need to have a humble heart in order for God to work in you.

I know everyone is in different levels spiritually, we might be able to swallow meat and are able to understand deeper meanings of God's word, some JUST CAN'T, for they can't even seperate these 2 things.
---cInDy92714 on 10/18/07


AG - *Christianity is a continuation of & INSPERABLE from Judiasm.*

If that were truly correct,then there would be no need for a new covenant with the old one being declared obsolete. (Hebrews 8)

And if true also then one must observe each & every command God gave to Israel including temple worship,circumcision, celebration of feasts, dietary laws, civil laws, ceremonial laws, etc. etc. In fact,dependence on the law would eliminate any need for grace.
---lee on 10/18/07


Andrea,
"you can't mix Judaism and Christianity"

Christ is Lion of the Tribe of Judah. The jewish messiah is our messiah. Christianity is a continuation of & INSPERABLE from Judiasm.

(This understanding has been buried under yrs of hate. Jews who rejected Christ hated the believing gentiles in "their" synagogues, which resulted in anti-semitism.)

In Rev 7 ONLY the house of JUDAH and the house of ISRAEL are sealed in heaven. The gentiles are grafted in.
---AG on 10/18/07


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AG - ***Sidenote: Anyone know the purpose of these instructions???**

Simply a compromise to maintain dialogue between Gentiles & Jews, the Gentiles had to honor certain Jewish practices & customs.

It is the same rationale as Paul telling us 'not to eat meat or drink wine' if it wouild cause your brother to stumble.

Romans 14:21 It is good neither to eat flesh, nor to drink wine, nor any thing whereby thy brother stumbleth, or is offended, or is made weak.
---lee on 10/18/07


Acts 24
Ananias and Tertullus charged Paul with
1) Stirring up riots among the Jews
2) Desecrating the temple

Paul's defense was
1) He didn't do it and there's no proof otherwise
2) He himself worshiped like his ancestors, "believing everything laid down according to the law or written in the prophets."

Bottom line: Paul didn't teach against the law. He lived by it.
It was a portion of Jews who misintrepted the gospel as contrary to the law.

Part 3
---AG on 10/18/07


Linda - no I had not known that, but it certainly clarifies things. Bodily fluids putrifying flesh = law and trying to obtain salvation from this body and not His body.
thanks good thought.
---Andrea on 10/18/07


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