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Christians Support Extremes

Should Christains vote for politicians who support extreme interogation of suspected terrorists? Sometimes innocents die, just as unborn babies. Can Christains condone this when they vote?

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 ---MATTHEW on 10/6/07
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Steveng: (2)

Just look at the crazy inconsistency of "Christian" values in America today: the current adminstration is dominated by those who espouse "conservative pro-life Christian values" - yet while they revere the lives of thousands of unborn babies, they are willing to kill hundreds of thousands of people in other countries (and MANY of those are innocent children), not to mention executing criminals.
---StrongAxe on 10/31/07


alan_of_UK: (1)

Yet that IS the ultimate result of a strong belief on OSAS - if you're saved, the NO MATTER WHAT YOU DO, no matter how atrocious your actions, you will still be saved. So let's party!
---StrongAxe on 10/31/07


alan_of_UK: (2)

While few evangelicals go to this extreme, this is an error I have seen often - they are less likely to feel guilty over offenses against others "since God will forgive them", forgetting that while his forgiveness may excuse us from the ETERNAL consequences of our sins, it does NOT excuse us from the TEMPORAL consequences of our sins. (Some televangelists go to jail for fraud, and start up again as soon as they get out, never a thought of returning their embezzled funds)
---StrongAxe on 10/31/07


Steveng: (1)

It has only been Roman Catholics because they happen to have been around the longest. There have been "True Christians" and "False Christians" right from the very beginning. They are inseparable (just look at the parable of the wheat and the chaff).

Years ago, I heard a joke:
"The problem with Northern Ireland is that there are too many Catholics, and too many Protestants, and not enough Christians".
---StrongAxe on 10/31/07


Steveng, don't forget the atrocities done in the name of Calvin against whom he considered heretics, and in the name of Luther against the Jews, and mass murders by Anabaptists when they rioted. Catholics have no monopoly on evil in the name of religion.
---John1944 on 10/30/07




Mima wrote: John said,"Who says Christians should vote? Democracy is paganism, and Christians are to come out of the world."
---John on 10/7/07
Scary as it seems John may be correct.
---Mima on 10/29/07
In good conscience, I don't know that I could endorse any candidate,especially Clinton vs Giuliani if those are our choices, prefer a write in or???
---Christina on 10/30/07


Hi Mima, well I personally think a lot of people have spent a lot of time and money--and most importantly, their very lives--to ensure we all get to vote--including Christians. Besides, if we don't vote, we can't complain when the other side wins.
---Mary on 10/29/07


StrongAxe: "Some of the worst atrocities in history have been committed by so-called "Christians" ..."

That's right. These so-called "Christians" were not Christians at all, but Catholics who thought they were Chtistians. And history books make the same mistake. Every atrocity was done in the name of RCC. For twelve hundred years, from 300AD to 1500AD, the Catholic church ruled from the bible written in Latin where the common people couldn't know the truth.
---Steveng on 10/29/07


Jody, really good comment. Thank you!
---John1944 on 10/29/07


StrongAxe says : Some of the worst atrocities in history have been committed by so-called "Christians" using that excuse. "I can do as much evil as I want because I'm already forgiven"
I've not heard that before! Which ones do you have in mind and who were the perpetrators. I do not think that is a view that can be held by a Christian, even OSAS
---alan_of_UK on 10/29/07




John said,"Who says Christians should vote? Democracy is paganism, and Christians are to come out of the world."
---John on 10/7/07
Scary as it seems John may be correct.
---Mima on 10/29/07


From my point of view, we have not followed much of what Jesus taught for the last 2000 years anyway. If we had, we whould not have all of these denominations,starving countries, and Christians envolved in the evils in the world. We have been involved on a Pseudo Christianity all along. War? We have never been of one mind as Jesus taught and that being HIS mind so how could any agreement come to answer this question. This corruption are a result of our disobedience in the first place.
---jody on 10/29/07


StrongAxe, you hit the nail on the head. That was my point exactly. Blessings to you.
---John1944 on 10/29/07


I am for anything that will protect or provide safety for me and my family. Somebody has to die in order for someone to live. ---Robyn on 10/13/07

And just HOW is torturing someone going to protect YOU? Torture does not work and is morally reprehensible. The ground you so firmly stand on is very shaky.
---NurseRobert on 10/29/07


All politicians are more or less crooks. This is a known fact. ---Robyn on 10/26/07

This is NOT a known fact and you have NOTHING to back up this statement.
---NurseRobert on 10/29/07


Blessings Matthew, I have to agree with Robyn as far as politicans being crooks as well as promising you that they are going to make positive changes for Americans, until they are elected. Then all the promises get forgotten. The problem in my opinion is who do you believe will keep the promises that they made before election time arrives? I know that we have always had a somewhat corrupt Congress, but I have never seen as a corrupt Congress as what we have today.
---Cynthia on 10/28/07


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John1944:

Some of the worst atrocities in history have been committed by so-called "Christians" using that excuse. "I can do as much evil as I want because I'm already forgiven"

The Inquisition. The rape of the Americas by the Conquistadors. etc.

Small wonder that many non-Christians justifiably hold Christianity (and by extension, God) in contempt.

Romans 2:24
"For the name of God is blasphemed among the Gentiles through you, as it is written."
---StrongAxe on 10/27/07


All politicians are more or less crooks. This is a known fact. They promise anything and everything until they get your vote and then the real truth comes out. I vote for the best person I feel is suited for the job. I study and read up on the candidates. If they support and intend to work on issues I agree with or support, then I give them my vote. I would like to see a woman president in my lifetime. You betcha!
---Robyn on 10/26/07


Christians have and still do condone all sorts of evil and cruelty. But since they are saved by grace, their works, good or bad, don't matter.
---John1944 on 10/25/07


Matthew: You have the right to not agree with me. I have the right to stand my ground and I do!
---Robyn on 10/25/07


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Robyn, I am sorry but I find your response to be unChristlike, irresponsible, and morally relativistic.

The right thing to do is the right thing to do.

And wrong is wrong.
---matthew on 10/15/07


What does the Bible say about Wars? In the beginning war broke out in Heaven.{John.8:44,Rev.12:7} Since the dawn of civilization, warfare has played a major role in the affairs of mankind.{Gen.4:22} The Bible testifies to this fact by prophecy.{Gen.3:15,Matt.24:6-8,Rev.6:2-4}
---gary on 10/13/07


I am for anything that will protect or provide safety for me and my family. Somebody has to die in order for someone to live. We must keep that in mind, as well. Most citizens in the US are not schooled enough in politics to even understand the small details of what is really going on. I think the president and other leaders want to keep it that way. We would need numerous degrees, diplomas and certificates to begin to understand all of the issues at hand.
---Robyn on 10/13/07


I don't think we should condone torture or support politicians who are not clearly against it. If we torture, we slide toward barbarism. We lose our moral integrity and are no better than our enemies. I do not see how any Christain who will not vote for for pro-choice politicians can possible vote for someone who is not clearly against torture. To do so would be hypocritcal.
---matthew on 10/7/07


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Hi, Rebecca...Joshua chapter nine...I consider how the Jewish leaders made a decision based on what looked like obvious evidence > "but they did not ask counsel of the LORD." (in verse 14) God will lead us to make voting choices according to what **He*** knows and not what shows (o: > have you seen that cartoon showing how Charlie Brown lands on his back, every time he tries to kick the football that Lucy is holding?
---Bill_bila5659 on 10/7/07


Rather than trust our judging by how politicians can make things look >

"Trust in the LORD with all your heart,
And lean not on your own understanding,
In all your ways acknowledge Him,
And He shall direct your paths."
(Proverbs 3:5-6)

God will direct us according to what **He*** knows...in His peace > "And let the peace of God rule in your hearts, to which also you were called in one body, and be thankful." (Colossians 3:15)
---Bill_bila5659 on 10/7/07


Who says Christians should vote? Democracy is paganism, and Christians are to come out of the world.
---John on 10/7/07


I imagine that the situation in U.S. is very similar to U.K. Here I don't think anyone will agree 100% with ANY politician. The best we can do at the ballot box is to try to elect the one with whom we have the least arguments and, if he/she is elected, press for changes. For me personally their moral views are of, at least, as much importance as their political views.
---RitaH on 10/7/07


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When I reported during the Vietnam Conflict I was appraised of the words of Gen. Patton:"You are not being patriotic to simply die for your country.You are being patriotic to allow the other guy to die for his."Presently the adversary is barbaric.We must not tie the hands of our own soldiers to the extent that they are disadvantaged.I'd rather one of our boys said, "Sorry," than to have his voice stilled by barbarism.Everyone, even the soldier, deserves the right of self defense.
---ed_the_other_one on 10/6/07


This is a sticky question, because everybody has the right to vote if they choose to and they also have the right not to vote if they choose to. Me personally Im not because I feel that my vote don't matter or count.
---ANN on 10/6/07


Rebecca, I agree. But I am thinking that if many Christains ask politicians what their stand is on abortion, should they not do the same on the interrogation of suspected terrorists? Many in Guantonomo Bay have never been charged and appear to be innocent, but have been waterboarded, sleep deprived, and forced to suffer extreme cold. Some have died. Shouldn't Christains question those they plan to vote for about this? All people have a right to life.
---matthew on 10/6/07


Every registered person votes for the person they believe in their heart will be the right person in the political office. When that person is elected in the office, we may not always agree with the decisions they make. That doesn't always mean we should support nor condone their decisions. But if that political person in office doesn't keep his campaign promises, that isn't our fault.
---Rebecca_D on 10/6/07


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