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Jesus Suffer Hell On Cross

Did Jesus suffer in hell, or did He suffer the torment of hell on the Cross or both?

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 ---Cynthia on 10/9/07
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But it is not. To be baptized you must repent. Babies cannot repent.--Samuelbb7 on 7/22/13

No, not all have to repent.
Remember, the baby is being baptized to removed the original sin stain on him.
No personal sin has been committed. He is a baby. So, no need to repent.
Adults being baptized need to repent for personal sins, but needing baptism for the original sin as well.

Jewish converts had to repent and be circumcised.
But, not the Jewish babies.

Plus, in ACTS there are whole families being baptized at once including children after one person (head of the house) decided to convert to the Christian faith.
---Nikki on 7/23/13


Cluny, sorry I never learned how to spell correctly. Sorry, I don't live up to your education. It's ok with me, it doesn't bother me. I accept what God has given me. Maybe you were predestined to be super smart and not me.
Concerning Jesus Christ, when He came in the flesh He remained Sovereign, always has been and always will be. He never literally, become an immaterial object. Not a door, chair, house, nor a piece of bread.
Concerning (1 Cor. 10:4) those people were not baptize in water, dirt, rain from the cloud nor did they have communion that Jesus taught, they were baptized unto Moses. They were in agreement with him, or united with him. That was all. We are not told all the people jumped into the walls of water to get baptized.
---Mark_V. on 7/23/13


Actually having studied the reasons given for infant baptism. The best one seems to be that Baptism is the same as circumcision.

But it is not. To be baptized you must repent. Babies cannot repent.
---Samuelbb7 on 7/22/13


I might add that 1 Cor 10:4 and surrounding verses are good arguments for infant Baptism and Communion, which the Orthodox Church does. There is no definition of the word "all" that would exclude the children.
---Cluny on 7/21/13
goooooooooooooood arguement
losing arguement also
---francis on 7/22/13


\\I'm 67 years old and have no time to educate myself on spelling,\\

I will be 63 this week and was taught how to spell in elementary school.

Why did you not learn there?

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 7/22/13




Mark_V, when the Logos became flesh, and was born as an infant, did He cease to be Sovereign God?

I might add that 1 Cor 10:4 and surrounding verses are good arguments for infant Baptism and Communion, which the Orthodox Church does. There is no definition of the word "all" that would exclude the children.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 7/21/13


Cluny, you understood my post very clearly, if you hadn't you would not be answering me.
If you have no Scripture to give, stop spell checking me, because my spelling is not going to change. I'm 67 years old and have no time to educate myself on spelling, I am too busy studying about God. That is where I spend my time. Sorry, I do not live up to your education and standards of life.
---Mark_V. on 7/22/13


1 Corinthians 10:4 And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ.
---francis on 7/21/13


\\That the god you know can change Himself into a piece of bread. So while a piece of bread he stops been Sovereign so stops been God while you eat Him,\\

I believe the Roman Catholic doctrine of the Eucharist is not as you have derisively posted it here.

However, if Jesus can live in your heart, does He stop being Sovereign God, then, Mark_V?

In any case, the word you should be using is "being", not "been." Remember writing clearly means thinking clearly.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 7/21/13


Nikki, so what you are saying is that the god you know can lie.--Mark_V. on 7/21/13

I don't know god. I know God!
Don't confuse your god with the God.

I don't make excuses for John Chapter 6 just because I don't understand it. I don't make any excuse when Jesus tells me His God.
God became Man? Yes indeed He did! How?
It doesn't concern me how, because He is God and the one thing He can't do is DECEIVE!
I am sorry, You were right, there is one thing God can't do.

I don't know how a car runs. But if I can trust the car to take me from point A to point B, the least I can do is trust The God of creation!

Trust. Try it. It is so freeing. Trust me.
---Nikki on 7/21/13




Nikki, so what you are saying is that the god you know can lie. That the god you know can change Himself into a piece of bread. So while a piece of bread he stops been Sovereign so stops been God while you eat Him, and when inside your stomach, you decide to have a bowl movement, He comes out and turns back to God so that you can do it again and again? Shear nonsense, talk about paganism or heathenism.
You say,
"My God can do anything. How do I know? Because I have GREAT FAITH given to me by Jesus!" Now you claim Jesus gave you that faith, to belief in a God who lies. Jesus could not have given you that faith. You got it from your denomination, your church, the RCC.
---Mark_V. on 7/21/13


Nikki, is that the best answer you could give?..God is Omnipotent alright. Many things are impossible with God....God abandoning God is impossible.---Mark_V. on 7/20/13

Yes that is the best answer I can give because I am not Omniscience, it appears you think you are!
Your post is crazy! First you claim God is Omnipotent, then you give a list of things God can't do????? What!

Do you know Muslims think Christians are crazy for believing God became man? They claim it is impossible for God to be man.
You sound just like them. Just as God became Man, He can be bread!
Oh you of LITTLE FAITH!

My God can do anything. How do I know? Because I have GREAT FAITH given to me by Jesus!
---Nikki on 7/20/13


Nikki, is that the best answer you could give? You do not know the Jesus of the Bible. Here you say,
"Do you not know that God is Omnipotent?
He can do anything! Nothing is impossible for God."

God is Omnipotent alright. Many things are impossible with God. I will show you a few things impossible, Jesus Christ is God, can God forsake God? If you say yes, then you need to start from the begining. God abandoning God is impossible. it's also impossible for God to lie, It's impossible for God to go against His nature, character or attributes. It's impossible for God to stop been God and turn Himself into a piece of bread. God never changes, He is the same, yesterday, today and forever.
---Mark_V. on 7/20/13


The Roman Catholic Church claims it is in their power to make JESUS into the Bread and wine. I see great harm in this.---Samuelbb7 on 7/19/13

As you should. But the RCC NEVER makes that claim.
Because the Orthodox has the True Presence of Jesus as well.

We claim to follow Jesus' instruction and commandment He made during the Last Supper.
We follow Him.
Any one who has the Priesthood formed by Jesus and follows the rubrics made by Jesus invokes the Holy Spirit into consecrating the Host and the Wine.
The power of the Holy Spirit, not man.
---Nikki on 7/19/13


The Roman Catholic Church claims it is in their power to make JESUS into the Bread and wine. I see great harm in this.
---Samuelbb7 on 7/19/13
Please give a reference.
I know that the RCC teaches and believes that the wine turns into the blood of Jesus and the bread his body. I have not read that this is done by the power of the church ( priest, Pope or otherwise)
---francis on 7/19/13


I have not yet found any harm in believing in transubstantiation.

francis

In theology, transubstantiation is the doctrine that, in the Eucharist, the substance of the bread and the wine used in the sacrament is literally, not merely as by a sign or a figure, but in actual reality as well, changed into the substance of the Body and the Blood of Jesus. Wikipedia

The Roman Catholic Church claims it is in their power to make JESUS into the Bread and wine. I see great harm in this.
---Samuelbb7 on 7/19/13


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Nicean Creed (which states nothing about the Lord's Table) let us simply say that each accept that each accept any view between that the bread and wine is Jesus literal body and blood and that it is simply bread and wine. Can that be accepted?
---Peter9556 on 7/18/13

Great question. But, the purpose for the Nicene creed was to state what we believed which was being questioned at the time.
No one in the Christian World questioned the true presence of Jesus in the Consecrated Host and Wine. No one.
First Council of Nicaea in 325 formed the creed and in the year 381 it was completed.
---Nikki on 7/19/13


Nikki, do you not know that God is Omnipresent? He is everywhere at one time. So how could God abandon Jesus? Not possible.---Mark_V. on 7/19/13

Do you not know that God is Omnipotent?
He can do anything! Nothing is impossible for God.
Just because you don't know how he can is not proof God didn't forsake Jesus. It only means you are not Omniscience, but God is! Thank God.
---Nikki on 7/19/13


---Peter9556 on 7/18/13
This cannot be literal

Matthew 26:27 And he took the cup, and gave thanks, and gave it to them, saying, Drink ye all of it,

Matthew 26:28 For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.

Matthew 26:29 But I say unto you, I will not drink henceforth of this fruit of the vine, until that day when I drink it new with you in my Father's kingdom.

So we know that it was fruit juice, grape most likely

and we know that in the kingdom to come, we will drink a good refreshing cup of fruit juice with Jesus,

I have not yet found any harm in believing in transubstantiation.
---francis on 7/18/13


Nikki, do you not know that God is Omnipresent? He is everywhere at one time. So how could God abandon Jesus? Not possible.
The words of Jesus represent what He was feeling in His humanity. He felt abandoned. But He was never abandon, for God is with all of us no matter where we go and hide, He was with Jesus at the crucifixation. God is God and cannot stop been Omnipresent. He is the same yesterday, today and forever.
So you are wrong.
Concerning Jesus blood covering our sins, we are told:
"Blessed are those whose lawless deeds are forgiven. And whose sins are covered" (Rom. 4:7).
---Mark_V. on 7/19/13


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Fancis, Mark, nikki: The question of to what extent the blood is real (transubstantiation I think it is called) I do not want to get into, because it is a matter that too many great minds have argued over and we are not great minds and we would be just wasting time is not a matter.

Different denomiations have taken Christ's statement of 'this is my body/blood' in a more literal or less literal way, but let us, in an indenominational way, and in a way that agrees with the Nicean Creed (which states nothing about the Lord's Table) let us simply say that each accept that each accept any view between that the bread and wine is Jesus literal body and blood and that it is simply bread and wine

Can that be accepted?
---Peter9556 on 7/18/13


Nikki, I disagree with your statements,
"Jesus the Lamb of God's blood will Save Israel and Us." God does not have blood,
---Mark_V. on 7/18/13

What I understand from Nikki's statement is that Jesus who is the lamb of God, shed His blood to Save Israel and us

So i am not sure what Mark_V is disagreeing to
---francis on 7/18/13


MarkV, yes, you are almost there!
God doesn't have blood, but bleeds in His Humanity.

So, God is forsaken from His Father on the cross with our sins placed on Him.

Covering up sin is not cleansed.
Not covering, but rid of sin.

Remember, Jesus spoke about white washed tomb stones.
That is covering up. Jesus is against that type of so called clean. It is FAKE.

I don't have problem and can handle the word 'forsaken' as Jesus cried out to His Father.
It is you trying to find other meanings for the word because you can't handle that word.

I take Jesus' at His Word.
No second guessing Him.
---Nikki on 7/18/13


Nikki, I disagree with your statements,
"Jesus the Lamb of God's blood will Save Israel and Us." God does not have blood, He is Spirit. Jesus humanity had blood. It covers our sins, now, but doesn't cover Israel, for not all Israel is Israel. He will cover the sins of those from Israel with faith in Christ. Third, God saves individuals.
Then say,
"They were abandoned. Jesus was abandoned....I am sorry if you can't handle the word forsaken." Forsaken means abandon. Who's they? goats and sheep? Jesus was never abandoned. God is Sovereign and Omnipresent. He is always with us. Then say,
"Stop trying to undermine Jesus' Words. It is wrong and a sin." you sin, you added to Scripture.
---Mark_V. on 7/18/13


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Nikki "Jesus (High Priest) has our iniquities on Him while on the cross. So he must be sent to a isolated region which only can be forsaken by God."
Where in Scripture is that found? Can you give Scripture?
---Mark_V. on 7/17/13

What do you think Francis and I were debating about?
Read our post directed to each other.
I gave Scripture.

Francis thinks the goat is satan which we peaceful disagreement.
Mostly because satan doesn't take our sins upon him as our sins are upon Jesus.
So, the goat can't be satan.

The goat is isolated. ALONE.
FORSAKEN because the sins on the goat.

So, God forsake His Son on the Cross for awhile because of our sins on Him.
---Nikki on 7/17/13


when Jesus died on the cross, He bore every sin In the world. that is why God turned His back on Jesus. Christ died carrying every sin there was in the world. Christ died for every single human in the world. I thank Him and praise Him because Jesus could have chosen not to die on the cross. He could have called 10,000 angels to deliver Him that day. Jesus was obedient to God as we should be. Jesus You died for me and I can live for You. oh Lord.
---shira4368 on 7/17/13


Nikki, you made a great assumption concerning Jesus. Here you say,
"Jesus (High Priest) has our iniquities on Him while on the cross. So he must be sent to a isolated region which only can be forsaken by God."
Where in Scripture is that found? It must be one of your ideas because I have not read it in the Word of God. Maybe it is a tradition of your church. Can you give Scripture?
---Mark_V. on 7/17/13


but the animals never know they are going to be separated, abandoned, or forsaken by God, in fact they know nothing, they are animals. But Jesus did feel abandoned by God. A big difference since Jesus was also human.---Mark_V. on 7/12/13

The difference is that the lambs and goat's blood couldn't save Israel.

Jesus the Lamb of God's blood will Save Israel and Us.

They were abandoned. Jesus was abandoned.
I take Jesus at His Word.
I am sorry if you can't handle the word forsaken.

Stop trying to undermine Jesus' Words. It is wrong and a sin.
---Nikki on 7/17/13


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Nikki on 7/12/13
Ok so we have a peaceful disagreement. You think scapegoat is Jesus, I believe it is Satan.

I need you input in a blog called no mother in God-head. I left a question there for you
---francis on 7/13/13


Jesus (High Priest) has our iniquities on Him while on the cross. So he must be sent to a isolated region which only can be forsaken by God.
---Nikki on 7/12/13

Here is where your theory would not hold up. This " isolated region" takes place AFTER the lord's Goat has died

If the isolated region you speak of is this: Psalms 22:1 My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me? Then you are not on point, since this happens BEFORE and not after the death of the Lord's goat.
---francis on 7/12/13


Francis, there 2 goats.
The first goat is slaughter as the people's sin-offering.

As Jesus is sacrificed on the cross. His blood is pouring on the wood.

Now the 2nd goat is the scapegoat. Arron (a priest) lays both hands on it head, He shall than have it lead into the desert by an attendant. Since the goat is to carry off their iniquities to a an isolated region, it must be sent away into the desert.

Jesus (High Priest) has our iniquities on Him while on the cross. So he must be sent to a isolated region which only can be forsaken by God.
---Nikki on 7/12/13


Nikki, now you say,
"Are you saying the lamb knew what was going on when it was sacrificed in the passover??" Where did you get that idea? Lambs, goats, cows, chickens even deers when shot by someone, have no clue they are going to be sacrificed. Not on the passover, or any other day.
Now you can make up anything you want with just about any two passages, but the animals never know they are going to be separated, abandoned, or forsaken by God, in fact they know nothing, they are animals.
But Jesus did feel abandoned by God. A big difference since Jesus was also human.
---Mark_V. on 7/12/13


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Nikki, when you answer, you have to be specific. You first say a goat in Leviticus 16, then a lamb in Isaiah 53. I see the connection between the Type and the anti-type.--Mark_V. on 7/11/13

The goat does not feel abandoned. He has no clue what is going to happened, so that is not a good comparison. Jesus in His humanity, felt abandoned by God at that moment.---Mark_V. on 7/10/13

Are you saying the lamb knew what was going on when it was sacrificed in the passover??

I used the lamb as example as the goat is used as an example for Jesus.

I was answering your point.
---Nikki on 7/11/13


Leviticus 16:9 And Aaron shall bring the goat upon which the LORD'S lot fell, and offer him for a sin offering. But the goat, on which the lot fell to be the scapegoat, shall be presented alive before the LORD, to make an atonement with him, and to let him go for a scapegoat into the wilderness.

Look at how this plays out through the bible

1: We have only two choices on whom to follow: God or Satan
2: Christ ( the Lord's Goat) sheds his blood for our sin, while the scapegoat remains alive
3: When the sanctuary has been cleansed, by the blood of the lord's goat: Hebrews 9:23
Then Christ appears again, and at that time, satan must be held accountable for sin Revelation 20:10
---francis on 7/11/13


Nikki, when you answer, you have to be specific. You first say a goat in Leviticus 16, then a lamb in Isaiah 53. I see the connection between the Type and the anti-type. I do not see the connection on the separation you talked about with the goat who was sent away into the wilderness who was not sacrificed but took the sins of many. In (2 Cor. 5:21) we read,
"For He made Him who knew no sin to be sin for us, that we might become the righteousness of God in Him" Even that passage does not talk about abandoment, or separation from God. Can you clear what point you are trying to make?
---Mark_V. on 7/11/13


I politely beg to differ---francis on 7/10/13

As a gentlemen you are, I accepted your differ in a logical lady like manner.

Good one.

No, I never thought about it, but immediately the answer came to my mind after you mentioned it.

Jesus is both Human and Divine
Human nature and Divine Person.
His Divine Person can not shed blood or even die.
But it can be separated from His Divine Father.
Maybe that is why the Jewish people were told to use 2 goats.

Remember, I am not a Catholic Scholar.
This is my opinion and I have not looked up your question. But, now I shall.

Thanks for the Biblical mystery. The Bible is so intriguing!
---Nikki on 7/11/13


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The scapegoat signifies Jesus separation from God.
---Nikki on 7/10/13

I politely beg to differ

Ever wonder why this " scapegoat" does not shed his blood for any sins, but is used only AFTER God's goat has shed his blood for the sins of the people?

Do you notice that the live goat is used AFTER the atonement has been made, and that he is led into the wilderness so that God may deal with him?
---francis on 7/10/13


Thank you Mark V it is very good point about JESUS in his humanity feeling abandoned. When the lost look at JESUS atop the New Jerusalem. Rev 20:11 And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away, and there was found no place for them.

They will know their doom.

Jews call the scape goat Azaeal or goat of the demon. Because of this some believe this goat points to the devil not JESUS. This is a minor point though.
---Samuelbb7 on 7/10/13


Lev. 16:16-20 is talking about a goat. A type of the real sacrifice. Only a type. The goat does not feel abandoned... Jesus in His humanity, felt abandoned by God at that moment. I suppose that is enough that can be said concerning the subject. If you do not have anymore to give we can leave it at that. Just remember, you are not losing an argument, you are learning the Truth.---Mark_V.

I don't take anything personal. I am trying to convey to you the Holy Bible as it is a history and blue print of our SALVATION.

"Talking about a goat"
As Isaiah speaks about a suffering lamb.

We call Jesus Lamb of God.

Do you see the connection? A TYPE indeed!

The scapegoat signifies Jesus separation from God.
---Nikki on 7/10/13


Nikki, Lev. 16:16-20 is talking about a goat. A type of the real sacrifice. Only a type. The goat does not feel abandoned. He has no clue what is going to happened, so that is not a good comparison. Jesus in His humanity, felt abandoned by God at that moment. I suppose that is enough that can be said concerning the subject. If you do not have anymore to give we can leave it at that. Just remember, you are not losing an argument, you are learning the Truth.
---Mark_V. on 7/10/13


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Leviticus 16:10 But the goat, on which the lot fell to be the scapegoat, shall be presented alive before the LORD, to make an atonement with him, and to let him go for a scapegoat into the wilderness.

Leviticus 16:19 And he shall sprinkle of the blood upon it with his finger seven times, and cleanse it, and hallow it from the uncleanness of the children of Israel.

Leviticus 16:20 And when he hath made an end of reconciling the holy place, and the tabernacle of the congregation, and the altar, he shall bring the live goat:

Ever wonder why this " scapegoat" does not shed his blood for any sins, but is used only AFTER God's goat has shed his blood for the sins of the people?
---francis on 7/9/13


Leviticus 16:10 But the goat, on which the lot fell to be the scapegoat, shall be presented alive before the LORD, to make an atonement with him, and to let him go for a scapegoat into the wilderness.

Leviticus 16:19 And he shall sprinkle of the blood upon it with his finger seven times, and cleanse it, and hallow it from the uncleanness of the children of Israel.

Leviticus 16:20 And when he hath made an end of reconciling the holy place, and the tabernacle of the congregation, and the altar, he shall bring the live goat:

Do you notice that the live goat is used AFTER the atonement has been made, and that he is led into the wilderness so that God may deal with him?
---francis on 7/9/13


MarkV, address:

Leviticus 16:20-22
When he has completed the atonement rite for the sanctuary, the meeting tent and the altar, Arron shall bring forward the live goat. Laying both hands on its head, he shall confess over it all the sinful faults and transgressions of the Israelites, and so put them on the goat's head.He shall then have it led into the desert by an attendant. Since the goat is to carry off their iniquities to an isolated region, it must be sent away into the desert.
---Nikki on 7/9/13


Did Jesus suffer in hell, or did He suffer the torment of hell on the Cross or both?
---Cynthia on 10/9/07
Neither
The wages of sin is death, and that si what Jesus took for us.

If the wages of sin is to be burned forever in fire, than Jesus did not pay the price for our sin
---francis on 7/9/13


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Nikki, the word "Forsaken" means abandoned. Just another word used by the writers of Scripture. Jesus in His humanity felt what we ourselves feel in our lives. At that moment of pain and suffering He did feel abandoned by the Father.
We many times feel abandone also by God, but He is always there for each one of us, He is Spirit and He is Omnipresent. Yet, Jesus knew what He had to do, for He was foreknown as a sacrifice for sin before the foundation of the world. It was a covenant made within the Godhead before the world beginned. His suffering was before the cross and at the cross.
---Mark_V. on 7/8/13


MarkV, Jesus used the word 'forsaken'.
"into Your hands I commit My spirit" Jesus trusted God to rise him up.

God gave Israel a lot of instructions and rituals for a reason.
Jesus will fulfill the Law.
He will obey God.

Leviticus 16:20-22
When he has completed the atonement rite for the sanctuary, the meeting tent and the altar, Arron shall bring forward the live goat. Laying both hands on its head, he shall confess over it all the sinful faults and transgressions of the Israelites, and so put them on the goat's head.He shall then have it led into the desert by an attendant. Since the goat is to carry off their iniquities to an isolated region, it must be sent away into the desert.

FORSAKEN
---Nikki on 7/8/13


-Mark_V. on 7/6/13
good post
---francis on 7/6/13


Nikki, it is interesting how you come out with your theories about what I said. Jesus Christ in His humanity felt abandoned by the Father when He was on the cross dying. "My God, My God, why have You forsaken Me?" That was how He felt in His humanity. He was expressing His feelings as a human would. That doesn't mean He was abandon by the Father. How could He since it was the Father bringing His wrath on the Son for our sins. The Father was always there, He never left, since He is Omnipresent. Jesus even told the Father
" into Your hands I commit My spirit" The Father had not abandon Jesus. Jesus did not suffer in hell, He suffered before the cross and at the Cross in His humanity, the human person of Jesus.
---Mark_V. on 7/6/13


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Interesting. What we have here is one says GOD is omnipresent. Another says no he is not. JESUS as a man was separated from GOD for he died the death of the wicked which will be the way they die in the lake of fire. But die they will unless GOD is not omnipresent.---Samuelbb7 on 7/5/13

Can you please explain again how you think someone doesn't believe God is omnipresent.
---Nikki on 7/5/13


"Jesus Christ did not suffer in hell."---MarkV

Hell is the grave (1st death), not to be confused with the lake of fire (2nd death).

If Jesus didnt go to hell, then he didnt die and you have no savior.

Dead 3 days (in the grave/hell) then resurrected
---Jasheradan on 7/5/13


Second, God the Father is Omnipresent, He is everywhere all at once. Mark_V.

Fire and all of that is terrible of course, I don't deny it,but the real issue is that God is not there Peter9556

I agree. Because if God was in hell anyone could bear hell.

It is the fact that we are separated from God that makes it hell.

Jesus and His Father are One.
Jesus couldn't bear the thought of not being with His Father = Hell. Nikki

Interesting. What we have here is one says GOD is omnipresent. Another says no he is not. JESUS as a man was separated from GOD for he died the death of the wicked which will be the way they die in the lake of fire. But die they will unless GOD is not omnipresent.
---Samuelbb7 on 7/5/13


MarkV, really?
That's why Jesus had to take a body to sacrifice to His Father.
To die in the Flesh. Yes, He was forsaken.

Don't you ever take Jesus at His Words.
So, you are saying Jesus is just wasting His time and breath saying things He didn't mean?
You do know to speak, Jesus had to raise up His torso in AGONY to say one word.
He wasn't giving a sermon on the cross. He only spoke words that was needed to be said.

Mark 15:33 "Eloi, Eloi, leam sabachthani?" which is translated, "My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?"

Don't you fear God?
First He tells you His is fresh to eat and blood to drink.
And you don't take Him at His Words.
Now this?
---Nikki on 7/5/13


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Jesus Christ did not suffer in hell. He was never separated from God, He is God. In His humanity, as one of us, He felt abandoned by the Father. But He was never abandoned. Christ at that moment was experiencing the abandonment and despair that resulted from the outpouring of divine wrath on Him as sin-bearer see (Matt. 29:39). Second, God the Father is Omnipresent, He is everywhere all at once.
---Mark_V. on 7/5/13


Fire and all of that is terrible of course, I don't deny it,but the real issue is that God is not there---Peter9556 on 6/24/13

I agree. Because if God was in hell anyone could bear hell.

It is the fact that we are separated from God that makes it hell.

Jesus asking God to take away the cup of Him was mainly speaking about not undergoing being forsaken from His Father.

Jesus and His Father are One.
Jesus couldn't bear the thought of not being with His Father = Hell.
---Nikki on 7/2/13


It was hell, I can tell you that right now, on that cross. He did not suffer in hell!
---Catherine on 6/27/13


Actually, GOD's Wrath will be there in Hell and in the Lake of Fire.

PSALMS 139:8b says, "...if I make my bed in Hell, behold, THOU art there."

That was a child of GOD saying that. But, that applies to the lost, in their state of Damnation.

GOD can "be in Hell" were HIS child to be there, and so, if a sinner is there.

The difference is that GOD will only express HIS Wrath in Hell none of HIS Goodly Attributes.

The Fires of Hell ARE the Wrath of GOD.

JOHN 3:36b says, "...he that believeth not the Son...the Wrath of GOD abideth on him."

That's Eternal.
---Gordon on 6/24/13


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Why have you forsaken me?

That sounds like hell to me

Fire and all of that is terrible of course, I don't deny it,but the real issue is that God is not there
---Peter9556 on 6/24/13


HE SUFFERED like none other ever has. I think about that sometimes. quite a bit actually. I don't know how He did it. The pain. I nearly got sick when I got a-hold of what Jesus went through for only a few people.
---Catherine on 6/24/13


Yahushua suffered the separation from God His Father, while hanging on the Cross, MATTHEW 27:46 (and prophecied in PSALM 22:1.) Those in Hell will be forever separated from GOD, save for HIS Wrath, JOHN 3:36. Just as those in Hell experience constant, excruciating pain, like fire in the veins, so did Yahushua, as the nails pierced His midian nerves from His Hands (and Wrists), and from other Bodily pains, PSALM 22:16b. Just as those in Hell are surrounded by thick Darkness, so was Yahushua for 3 hours on the Cross, MATTHEW 27:45-46. As in Hell, Yahushua was surrounded by those who hated Him, both men and fallen angels.
---Gordon on 6/18/13


wages of sin is death, and that is what Jesus suffered
---francis on 6/18/13


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What is the punishment of a sinner? Physical death? The work of Christ was finished on the cross. But His soul continued to live. Just as in Luke 16 - "And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments." Christ's physical life was not the punishment for sin. Isaiah 53 says "...thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin,...He shall see of the travail of his soul,... for he shall bear their iniquities. Christ said in Matthew 10 "And fear not them which kill the body,... but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell. "The word of God says that the soul and spirit can be divided in Hebrews 4. I believe that Christ's body went to the grave, His soul to hell, and His Spirit to paradise.
---Stefan on 6/18/13


As we read in Peter 2:24,God offered His only Son as "a Lamb for slaughter". Jesus took our burdens & chastisement that we would not face the wrath of Fiery Hell "ourselves".That great Love He shares reunites us with Him in Peace and Joy
---rosem4839 on 11/21/07


Ramon,

I'm sorry for the confusion. What I meant is that Noah did the preaching by the Spirit, or "in power and in demonstration of the same Spirit" that raised Christ from the dead.

Anyway, that's my understanding of what is being said in I Pet 3:18-19.

Bless you too,
---trey on 10/16/07


trey. Your interpretation seems unlikely because the context is about Jesus' death. "For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit. . ." (v. 18).

*Why would Christ preach to the ones who have already been condemned to Hell?*

To tell the spirits (i.e., angels) His victory over them. He did not go Tartarus to give the angels who sinned in Gen 6 a second chance.
---Ramon on 10/15/07


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#2 Also consider the fact that verse talks about Noah time and how the spirits in prison were disobedient. Gen 6:1-4 were during the time of Noah. Both 2 Peter 2:4, Jude 6-7 explain how some angels are bound. This is talking about other angels besides Lucifer and the angels who rebel with him, they are not bound.

I do not want to get into a deep discussion about this, since it is not really important.

God Bless you my Friend!
---Ramon on 10/15/07


There is no scripture that describes Jesus going to hell and taking the, "Keys to hell death and the grave". I have heard preacher preach that for years. But there is no scripture that says that.

The closest thing is Revelation 1:18 and the living One, and I was dead, and behold, I am alive forevermore, and I have the keys (authority) of death and of Hades.
---denna7667 on 10/13/07


Hi Cynthia,

Christ tell's us where his spirit went when he died.
Luke 23:43 - Paradise which is the same as Heaven, which is the same as Abraham's bosom.
Luke 23:46 - Into the Father's hands.
---trey on 10/13/07


Cynthia, (continued)

He did suffer the pains of Hell for his children while on the cross (Matt. 27:46, and Psms 22:1)

All God's children that died before Christ shed his blood upon the cross went to heaven (Luke 16:22), because they were the objects under consideration, in the eternal covenant made between God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Ghost, before the foundation of the world (Eph. 1: 4 & 5).

Bless you Cynthia,
---trey on 10/13/07


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Rammon,

Here is my take on 1 Pet 3:19:

1Pet. 3:19 tells of the preaching that Noah did while the ark was being built. Noah was a preacher of righteousness (2 Pet 2:5). Noah's preaching was under the influence of Christ.

Why would Christ preach to the ones who have already been condemed to Hell? Hell is for the wicked who hate God, and the Devil and his angels.

Bless you friend,
---trey on 10/13/07


Jesus did not go to Hades to burn after His death (rather he went to the paradise side of Hades and He also preach to those angels who sinned in Gen 6:1-4, they are currently bound in Tartarus)(Cf. 1 Peter 3:19, 2 Peter 2:4, Jude 6-7).

The idea that Jesus suffer in Hades in not taught in Scriptures. Did Jesus suffer spiritual death on the cross? Yes, but not being torment in Hell!
---Ramon on 10/11/07


"Did Jesus suffer in hell?" As a place or state, No. "did He suffer the torment of hell on the Cross" Yes, I would think that what He went through on the cross would have been hell (as mental, and emotional torment) for any man, especially one who had done nothing to warrant it. The physical pain of course would have intensified that hellish experience even farther.
---joseph on 10/11/07


Jesus suffered the punishment for the sins of everyone who ever will live on this earth. Jesus did not go to hell for eternity. So eternity in hell is not the punishment for sin.
---InimicusStultitiae on 10/10/07


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Jesus suffered the punishment for the sins of everyone who ever will live on this earth. Jesus did not go to hell for eternity. So eternity in hell is not the punishment for sin.
---InimicusStultitiae on 10/10/07


Jesus never suffered in hell. He did however go to hell to take back the keys of death from Satan. When Jesus was on the cross, Satan and his demons were having a ball, a party. I believe when Jesus said It is Finished, that death visited Satan and told him that the stone was rolled away and he tried to stop Jesus, but he couldn't hold him down, with so much power he rose up from the ground. Jesus went to Satan and told him that he has RISEN and he is alive FOREVERMORE. Hallelujah he has risen.
---Rebecca_D on 10/10/07


We may never be finished our discusions on this subject and will probably never all agree but we can agree that he took our place and our punishment. That's the real thing we all should understand. I tend to believe he actually went to hell for us but I see some other evidence that tells me no.
---john on 10/10/07


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