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Predestined To Salvation

Is a person predestined by God to salvation because that person believes in Christ, or is that person enabled to believe in Christ because they are predestined?

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 ---Cynthia on 10/12/07
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#5. While this theory gives the glory to man in his fallen state, and kindness towards God by his works, it is not what Scripture tells us about salvation. We are saved by grace through faith, that not of ourselves, it is a gift of God so that no one can boast, and without that grace you will remain spiritually dead. Without that faith that comes as a gift the lost will never believe. It takes for the Spirit to quicken the heart of the lost and bring him to life before he can respond to Christ.
---Mark_V. on 12/9/07


The explanation that Eloy made is not correct concerning Predestination. Predestination "does not come" as he suggest. The word "predestination" is from the word "Proorizo" meaning before and "Horizo" to determine or decree beforehand found in Acts 4:28, Rom. 8:29, 30, 1Cor. 2:7, Eph. 1:5. 11. The word predestination in Scripture is attributed to God absolute and capricious determination of who would be saved and who would not.
---Mark_V. on 12/9/07


#2. He also say's that people corrupt the world predestination, and I can see why he say's that, when he changed the meaning of the word himself. Then he gives the answer why by using his own predestination of his child and that child not doing what he planned for him. "That explanation makes God mortal like him. God is not a man that He cannot see His plan to come true, for He is sovereign." What God will's always comes true. What men will's doesn't alway's come true.
---Mark_V. on 12/9/07


#3. Then he goes on to say, "We know that God has given us free will to choose to obey or disobey Him." "Us" means the believers. They do have a choice for they know who He is and believe in Him. The lost don't obey God because they don't believe in Him or know Him. How can they obey someone they don't believe in? Obedience is for the believers. He also say's, "Bad people can turn good, and good people can turn bad"
---Mark_V. on 12/9/07


#4. He is suggesting, "That man can change his own nature, that man can, on his own free will and power, not only change the nature but his own heart, and bring himself alive, giving himself sight to see, ears to hear, and understand the Word of God without the Spirit bringing light to God's Word in order for the person to understand and believe." Completely agnoring what Scripture tells us about the condition of man.
---Mark_V. on 12/9/07




Alan of UK, The Prophet is Elisabeth Sherrie Elijah. A Messianic Jewish Saint from here in America. You know, by the world's standards, a Prophet of GOD usually "has" to be someone with a BIG NAME, with Wealth and Fame to be "believed" and "accepted" as "from GOD". But, in GOD's economy, He uses the weak and (what the world would call) foolish things of the World to confound the wise.
---Gordon on 12/7/07


Predestination comes to every person whom freely chooses Jesus Christ to save them, of their own volition. But also, every person whom freely denies Jesus Christ as the only real Savior of their souls is also predestined for damnation. Noone is a mindless robot or nonthinking machine, for all mankind is called and commanded to repent, and all mankind is given the freedom of choice to either accept Salvation or else to reject him. And according to the choice made will determine the person's predestination.
---Eloy on 12/7/07


There are two paths in life, the narrow way of righteousness and the broad way of sin, and going to heaven or going to hell is a choice that each soul makes for themself. Please Read- Deuteronomy 30:19, Job 23:10-12, Psalm 32, 51, 119:101-104, Ezekiel 18:30-32, 33:11,20, Matthew 7:19,21,24-27, 25:31-46, Mark 12:29-34, Romans 6:12,13,16, 10:9-13, II Corinthians 5:10, Hebrews 3:7-19, 4:1,2, James 1:22, 2:14-26.
---Eloy on 12/7/07


People corrupt the word of predestination, as though there is no choice whether or not one gets saved, and as though each soul is a programmed robot with no power to choose heaven or hell, is because they do not want to be held accountable for their own actions and lives. They blame the unblameable saying, God made the devil, God put the forbidden tree in the garden. They fail to see that choosing evil or choosing good is a free choice, and according to which is chosen determines the final destination.
---Eloy on 12/7/07


Predestination is not fulfillment. I can predestine my child to be a success, a minister, etc. But that does not mean that my child will choose what I planned for him. We know that God has given us free will to choose to obey or choose to disobey him, the predestination is for all to be saved and to go to heaven, but the predestination also is that God made a hell for ALL whom choose to dis him, even those whom he predestined to go to heaven. Bad people can turn good, and good people can turn bad.
---Eloy on 12/7/07




Because God knows all, does not negate nor erase your life. No one is made a robot or a mindless machine with no will, but instead God gave you a free will which you can use to your fullest ability to serve God or else to serve sin. It pleased God to create you, you have a mission that he has set for you to do, and you are to fulfill his will and do his works which he has instructed for you to do.
---Eloy on 12/7/07


Not all will become saved. I am of the body of Christ and as you do not want to be of the same body, then that is your free choice, and so it is with each soul to choose which life and which eternal destination they have sown for themselves.
---Eloy on 12/7/07


Indeed God has great mercy, but forget not that he also has equal wrath. For just as he has made an everlasting heaven for those whom he loves, he has also made a very real everlasting hell for those whom he hates. And whether you choose his side or your side depends on where you will find yourself, whether in his mercy or in his wrath.
---Eloy on 12/7/07


Being that God knows everything we are going to do and say before we are put on this planet, of course we are predestined.

Before you are born, God knows if he will see you in Heaven or of to Hell. That is the essence of predestination.
---Kelvin on 12/6/07


We were given to Jesus from the foundation of the earth and nothing can "pluck" his sheep from His hand. This is referring to a predestined elect who once saved are the ones who desire to please God. I think do to free will, that most people can turn to Christ and workout their salvation if they have solid ground but God also has many who were created for perdition. Many are called but few are chosen is taught in the Bible and I think there are many who think they are saved but are not.:)
---jody on 12/6/07


Gordon "I believe as revealed through a Prophet, that every single human soul was created before the creation of the World"
Who was the Prophet?
---alan_of_UK on 12/6/07


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mark v please read galatians.If we were predestinated then we would not need repentance.Apostle Paul said, I die daily.He worked on his spiritual walk with Christ everyday and was concerned about becoming a castaway.If Paul was not predestinated then neither are we. in Jesus' name donaa8388 P.S. the Church is predestinated Matt.16:18,Dan.2:44,the Church,the kingdom of God,is predestinated not individuals
---donald on 12/6/07


#5. they are not able to. If they had free will they would at least be able to come to Christ, but Jesus said, they are not able not that they don't want to or not, not able Ed. And Jesus goes on to say, "You are of your father the devil, and the desires of your father you want to do." do you get that? The reason they don't love Christ, is because they have a different father, and they want to do the desires of their father. That's their nature. They don't love Christ.
---Mark_V. on 12/6/07


#6. All the free will they have will only be to please the devil, or themselves but never Christ. The next question is, "Why do you not understand" Does this passage give you a clue? This is the Word of God written by men and inspired by the Holy Spirit to bring light to all true believers that can understand. If you want to hear my answer to the Westboro reform church go to the blog of the popes. You that doesn't help you, nothing will, and it is not my fault. All those who say,
---Mark_V. on 12/6/07


#7. that predestination is from the pits of hell, belong to the same group that Jesus was speaking to. Otherwise they would understand Jesus very words. You cannot believe without faith, and God has to give it to you, without faith you will never trust in Christ or believe in Him, or believe His word. You will be continually lost depending on your own works to get you in.
---Mark_V. on 12/6/07


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#2. If Grace as you say is the gratuitous gift that God makes to us believers, what are those people doing in purgatory? Are they waiting for lunch? They are dead. What can they do to get out? What happen to grace while they were alive. No where to be found and you know why? because something has to be done for those in purgatory in order for them to get out and be saved. You said, "You cannot choose who you don't love and that you never said it" but you have
---Mark_V. on 12/6/07


#3. when you say that people are saved by they exercise their free will while dead to all spiritual things of God. And Scripture says, you are doing the desires of the devil, how can you exercise your free will while in bondage to sin, blind, cannot hear, with no faith, to love God who you have no faith in while lost? Can you explain that? How can an unbeliever, believe in Christ? How is that possible? How can he choose what he does not love? What he doesn understand, what he doesn't desire?
---Mark_V. on 12/6/07


#4. I am going to put a passage down, that has no metaphors but clear language, and it comes from Jesus Himself talking to unbelievers, " Jesus said to them, (the unbelievers) if God were your Father, yoou would love Me," This explains why they don't love Him, "I proceeded forth and came from God, now have I come of Myself, but He sent Me. Why do you not understand My speech? because you are not able to listen to My word" Jesus said, they don't understand Him because,
---Mark_V. on 12/6/07


Ed, If your justification come's by the grace of God, why does your church make works (merits) as one of the causes of salvation? I got that from you when you said that faith was not good enough. That it takes also works to be saved. If works is included as one of the causes, then grace is not grace. While works is the results of one who is born again, it is not the cause of it. Eph. "we are created in Christ Jesus unto good works." Believers Ed.
---Mark_V. on 12/6/07


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Predestination for individuals is a lie from the pitts of Hell.Please understand that the Church is predestinated,not the individuals in the church.Believe in Christ.In Jesus' name donaa8388
---donald on 12/5/07


Jeremiah, chapter 35.
---Nana on 12/5/07


2. Mark

Let me try harder.

- 'You cannot choose who you don't love' - never said you could or you could (?)
---Ed on 12/4/07


3. Mark

'You can have faith in yourself, or faith in Satan' - or faith in pink frogs that live in the moon. What are you talking about?
---Ed on 12/4/07


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4. Mark

'All the good deeds you do of yourself, mean nothing towards your salvation' - tell us something new. This is pelagianism / semi-pelagianism which is a heresy in your Church, my Church, and 99% of other Christian Churches. We are in agreement. Why bother to write this?
---Ed on 12/4/07


5. Mark

'Grace is not the teachings of the Catholic church' - don't tell us what you think (completely incorrectly) but what the facts actually say.

Here are some of the facts (too many) from Catholic Catechism:

'The first work of the grace of the Holy Spirit is conversion'

'Our justification comes from the grace of God'

'The grace of Christ is the gratuitous gift that God makes to us of his own life'
---Ed on 12/4/07


6. Mark

And so forth. And by the way you still haven't answered me about what the Westboro Reformed Baptists say about hating 'fags', 'Irish', 'Swedes' and i forgot to mention 'Americans'. They argue they are right to believe this because they are of the 'elect' and everyone else is doomed. And they believe they are right to believe this because their beliefs are based 100% on the Bible (from other blog).

Do the Westboro Reformed Baptists reflect the views of all Reformed Baptists?
---Ed on 12/4/07


7. Mark

If not, are there Reformed Baptists who have similar beliefs? Or are they just a minority (just as pervert Catholic priests are a minority)?



---Ed on 12/4/07


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Mark

With respect i have no idea what you are talking about.
---Ed on 12/4/07


Ed, I am sorry to go against you on this points of salvation. You cannot choose who you don't love. All lost people don't love Christ. They also cannot believe in Him since they don't have faith. All that talk about love means nothing if you don't have faith in Christ, not just faith. You can have faith in yourself, or faith in Satan, but that is not faith in Christ. Faith comes by grace. It is given by God so that you can believe, believe in whom? In Christ.
---Mark_V. on 12/4/07


Ed, you've combined many blogs into one, but I prefer to stay on topic.
---lovable_linda on 12/4/07


#2. All the good deeds you do of yourself, mean nothing towards your salvation, if Christ is not the source of your good, then it comes from somewhere else, and if so, it is sin. You have to understand this things. God gives you the faith to believe in Him. You don't get it from within yourself. All lost people don't have faith to believe in Christ. They are of their father the devil. They do the desires of their father. Not the desires of Christ.
---Mark_V. on 12/4/07


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#3. Grace is not the teachings of the Catholic church. Merits is the teachings. "Grace is the unmerited favor of God." Roman Catholic theology speaks of merit that is works for salvation. Grace is unmerited and comes from God. It comes paid for by Christ works on the Cross.
---Mark_V. on 12/4/07


Linda 3

Faith is important. But as Paul says faith is only part of love, and faith without love is useless. Surely the New Testament is all about what it is to Love. And it is this - Love - not just a feeling, but also a thought, an attitude, and, above all, a force - accepting and becoming a vessel for God's love - that is what our whole life is about?

You have to CHOOSE Love, and STRUGGLE against temptation, persecution and general suffering, in order to be a vessel of God's love.
---Ed on 12/4/07


4. Linda

(sorry for appearing to be preaching ..).

Again, by way of Hope, Love causes pain but it also brings GREAT JOY, PEACE and BLESSINGS in general, in this life, at times, too. Our Lord is never going to make our trials too great for us to bear (even, though, at times the trials can seem overbearing and endless).

This is my last post on this. Thanks for listening!
---Ed on 12/4/07


Linda

'Predestination, eternal security, unconditional election is false. You must accept Jesus Christ as your Lord and Savior, willingly' - this is the truth.

It is tough to say this. The evil one wants us to feel complacent about our faith. It is one of his most deadly tools. True faith is about wanting, needing, praying to, asking fogiveness from, and loving God and neighbour until the end. Trusting in God, and persevering, until the end.

God bless
---Ed on 12/4/07


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Linda 2

And by way of hope we must never forget that the power of God is infintely more powerful than the power of the evil one. At the end of the day there is one thing that the evil just doesn't get, just doesn't understand, and that is love. Corinthians 13 contains Paul's most important preaching. And Jesus says that the LOVE of God and neighbour are the two most important commandments.
---Ed on 12/4/07


More misinterpretations of Scripture to turn the souls of those who belief to unbief. 1 Cor.10:13, is speaking to believers only. Unbelievers do not understand Scripture. They care less what God has to say. "That passage speaks of the assurance of the saints, to the believers in Christ." It is not speaking to unbelievers since they do not understand anything spiritual. Common sense if you understand. But have to be a believer in order to understand when God speaks.
---Mark_V. on 12/4/07


#2. James 1:12 is speaking of those who will endure, "God promised to them that love Him" Who loves the Lord? Those that are born again. Is the promise for the lost? not so. common sense, but you have to be a believer to understand spiritual things. Joshua 24:15, the one's who will choose God, will be the one's who have faith in the coming Christ. How do they have faith? By grace God gave them faith. Common sense, if you are a believer.
---Mark_V. on 12/4/07


I believe as revealed through a Prophet, that every single human soul was created before the creation of the World. When Lucifer (Satan) rebelled against GOD, GOD then gave each of us souls the option to follow Him or follow Satan. Now when GOD places our souls on Earth in human flesh, we play out according to the decision we made earlier. A few perhaps go "a different way" but most stay true to their decision. Some chose GOD at first, but then turned traitor.
---Gordon on 12/4/07


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Predestination, eternal security, unconditional election is false.

You must accept Jesus Christ as your Lord and Savior, willingly.
---lovable_linda on 12/3/07


Yes, bartel. The Bible teaches he calls/draws/enables us(knocks) and we choose to open the door or not. Some would rather believe these fantasies. It is quite enticing to believe whenever you sin it was supposed to happen and there is nothing you can do it about.


Joshua 24:15
And if it seem evil unto you to serve the LORD, choose you this day whom ye will serve,

Matthew 19:26
..."With men this is impossible, but with God all things are possible.
---Matthew_from_LA on 12/3/07


2)
1 Corinthians 10:13
There hath no temptation taken you but such as is common to man: but God is faithful, who will not suffer you to be tempted above that ye are able, but will with the temptation also make a way to escape, that ye may be able to bear it.



James 1:12
Blessed is the man that endureth temptation: for when he is tried, he shall receive the crown of life, which the Lord hath promised to them that love him.

---Matthew_from_LA on 12/3/07


3)
When you say sin has to heppen and there is nothing you can do about it, you call God a liar, and you make the flesh more powerful then the Holy Spirit.
---Matthew_from_LA on 12/3/07


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Sorry Bartel, we have covered that passage already. Rev. 3:20 is talking about God knocking at the door of the Laodicea, it was a church who once was on fire for the Lord, but was now so bad that God ask them to repent. "If anyone hears" which means that in order to respond a person had to hear God, and no lost person can hear. If there was just one person that could hear, He would come in the church and dine with him.
---Mark_V. on 12/3/07


Yes, it is already known and expected.
---Jack_fossett on 12/3/07


Chicken or the egg...
I haven't seen anyone mention Rev. 3:20 "I stand at the door and knock. If anyone hears my voice and opens the door, I will go in and eat with him..."
God knocks but doesn't force his way in. God calls, some open the door. Because he already knows who will open the door, does that make the choice invalid?
---bartel on 12/3/07


Kathr, I read your answer and I believe you are still not making sense. "It was paid, "but" he had to accept it" How can it be paid? Jesus propitiation is sufficient for the whole word, but only those who believe get thier bill paid for. All lost people still owe, and "whosoever" believes, will get his bill paid. A person who is born again gets his bill paid. Payment paid is no more owed. Not even with God.
---Mark_V. on 12/3/07


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#2. 2 Peter 2:1 speaks of false prophets, "those dressed in sheeps clothing, who would love nothing more then for you to believe that Christ satisified the debt for every single person including Satan." Finding and twisting the word so as to confuse. They would have us believe that even Satan will go to heaven, and those who spit in the face of Christ. They love what they do each day. This people are found easy, " They say that Christ paid for the sins of everyone"
---Mark_V. on 12/3/07


#3. Here is what God has to say, "For our (the believers) sake He (God) made Him (Christ) to be sin who knew no sin, so that in Him we (believers) might become the righteousness of God," 2 Cor. 5:21. And in Titus 2:14, "...who gave Himself for us (believers) to redeems us (believers) from all iniquity and to purify for Himself a people (believers).. And in the passage of 2 Peter 2:1, the writer is not saying,
---Mark_V. on 12/3/07


#4."bought them, meaning the false prophets," What he is saying is "They denied that Christ had paid for the sins of the believers." If Christ bought also with His blood the false prophets, then they are also saved. Which goes against the wicked will go to hell. This people are teaching distructive heresies that are self-designed religious lies which lead to division and faction, 1 Cor. 11:19, Gal. 5:20. Peter described false teachers in detail in this chapter so that
---Mark_V. on 12/3/07


#5. "Christians would always recognize their characteristics and methods. The greatest sin of Christ-rejecters and the most damning work of Satan is misrepresentation of the truth and its consequent deception. Nothing is more wicked than for someone to claim they speak for God to the salvation of souls when "in reality he speaks for Satan to the damnation of souls" Deut. 13:1-18, 18:20, Jer. 23, Exek 13, Matt. 7:15, 23: 1-36.
---Mark_V. on 12/3/07


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greetings.Jesus taught his followers to change their lives through the spiritual leadership of his Father.This is also referred to as repenting.Mankind does not have to repent for any thing under the sun. Neither man or angels are a mechanical entity in a pre-fixed motion.This is obvious when Jesus visited many disobedient spirits.Neither does man when resurected to angel status fix our destinies.Spirits have gone to prison for their rebellion.
---earl on 12/2/07


Greetings Sister Cynthia,

To understand Predestination it is necessary to understand Election. Here is a verse that may help answer your question:

Ro 9:11 (For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth,)

In the above verse Jacob was chosen before he had ever done one action.
---trey on 11/30/07


Part 2

Some say Jacob was chosen because God knew he would "accept Christ". Scriptures teach that it is God who first chooses (Rom. 9:16, Eph. 1:4). He brings us to life from being spiritually dead (Eph 2:1), and when we are made to live we then cry out "Abba" (Daddy) Father (Rom.8:16). When we are "born again" in Christ Jesus, we then begin to bring forth good fruit (Mt. 12:33) (seek Jesus, accept Him, desire to be baptized, etc.).

In Christian Love,
---trey on 11/30/07


1 John 2:2
2And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.

2 Peter 2:1
But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction.
---Matthew_from_LA on 11/30/07


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Mark V, The sin debt has been paid, but not all will go to the Bank and claim their gift.

If it were universalism, Jesus would not have said.*Whosoever Will*,*to those who receive*,and *as many as repent*.

Do you know what salvation is Mark V?
Romans 6-8,we are saved by His risen Life, buried with Him and raised up a New Creation.
Quickened together with Him, and baptized into His Body. There's no saved people floating around in lombo outside the Body of Christ...*the risen Christ*.
---kathr4453 on 11/30/07


#2. If you owed money to the bank that you could not pay, and I stood with the cash in my hand, available to pay the debt you owe, doesn't it mean that the debt is not paid yet? If it was paid, you would not owe anything. If you decided not to take the cash, you would still owe the debt. Just think of this, "if Christ's death was intended to save all men," then we must also conclude that God was either unable or unwilling to carry out His plan.
---Mark_V. on 11/30/07


#3. But since the work of God is always efficient, those for whom atonement was made and those who are actually saved must be the same people. Christ is said to have been a ransom for His people, "The Son of man came not to be ministered unto but to minister, and to "give His life a ransom for many" Matt. 20:28, Notice this verse does not say that He gave His life a ransom for "all" but "for many." The nature of the ransom is such that when
---Mark_V. on 11/30/07


#4. paid and accepted it automatically frees the persons for whom it was intended. Otherwise it would not be true ransom. Justice demands that those for whom it is paid shall be freed from any further obligation. If it was paid already, then God would be unjust in sending them to hell, who's debt has already been paid. Even Arminian theology believes in some form of limitation. Only the Univesalism theology believe in atonement for all.
---Mark_V. on 11/30/07


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Kathr, You said He paid the debt for all, then you say it's available to all. If it's available to all, doesn't that mean it hasn't been paid? The Scripture writers tells us plainly that the The "Lord of glory" was crucified,"1 Cor. 2:8, that wicked men "killed the Prince of Life" Acts 3:15, and that God "purchased" the "church" with His blood." Acts 20:28. Notice, that He purchased "the church" with His blood.
---Mark_V. on 11/30/07


GOE: No it doesn't lead to universalism, so please don't twist scripture. Please refer to Hebrews 3and4.

Faith comes by hearing, and they heard all the way back to the Promise given to Abraham about the Promise Land. It was no surprise when they got to the Jordan!!! Oh Gee, what's this, where are we??? Not so!

How do you think they knew who "I AM" was that Moses said sent him. The God of Abraham,Isaac and Jacob.

Don't twisting scripture to prove a point that doesn't exist.
---kathr4453 on 11/29/07


Mark V, all in the OT was to teach us. Jesus paid it all, and the Gift is etrnal life in the risen Christ ( Promise land is symbolic of our life IN CHRIST) We are saved by His risen life...the finished work of Christ.

There is no such thing as limited atonement anymore then a limited finished work.

Not all will receive the Gift, but it is available to all. The Jordan represents the Cross, the Promised Land...Christ.
---kathr4453 on 11/29/07


Hi Kathr, If Christ paid the debt, how can they still owe the debt? If it has been paid, how can they refuse something already done? You also said that when Israel was led out of Egypt, ALL came out under the blood... Simply all" What blood are you talking about? Then you go on to say, "that it is available to all, but all will not go as far as (I m crucified with Christ). Isn't that what I said? It is available to all man. When he makes that commitment, it will be paid.
---Mark_V. on 11/26/07


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Mark V, Christ pay the debt for all. Not all will receive the Gift that has been paid in full.

Example. When Israel was lead out of Egypt ALL came out under the Blood..simply ALL! Yet ALL did not go in to possess the Promise, theirs was the land...ours is Christ.

This is explained in Hebrews 3 & 4. We are saved by his risen life remember.
The way to that risen life in Christ is made available through the Blood,to all,but all will not go as far as(I am crucified with Christ).
---kathr4453 on 11/25/07


Mark V Part 2
All will not go in to possess the Risen life of Christ. The Jordan represents the CROSS, three day journey..etc, etc. The Land represent the Risen life we have In Christ.

They were to Enter In His rest, as do we enter into the FINISHED work of Christ.

The FINISHED Work is the Risen , resurrected side of the Cross...life comes out of death. ( Buried with Him, and raised a New Creation) that's the FINISHING touches.
---kathr4453 on 11/25/07


now heres my question... why would the bible say a word such as predestination if it had no biblical use? that wouldnt make any sense than... this is to any armenian
---josgu on 11/24/07


Christ did not pay the debt for all people. His propitiation is sufficient for all people, but has not been paid for all. Christ paid the debt for the elect, God's children who recieve Christ as their Savior.

If Christ paid the debt for all mankind, then God is sending many to hell when they don't owe a debt to Him anymore. They need to pay the debt they owe God and it comes by having faith in Jesus Christ sacrifice, they get mercy.
---Mark_V. on 11/22/07


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#2. "All other who reject Christ get Justice"
Again, "If Christ paid the debt for all mankind already, then all are saved because they owe no debt" That is called, "universalism" everyone is saved, that is not Scriptural, since many are going to hell.

Propitiation is the satisfying of the righteousness of a holy God, so that it is possible for Him to show "mercy" without compromising His infinite righteousness.
---Mark_V. on 11/22/07


#3. This satisfaction was procured by Christ death on the cross. Only those who have put their faith in Christ, get their debts paid for by Christ, and they get mercy.

When the elect "hear" the gospel," the calling of their salvation, it will prove they are now alive to Christ to "hear" His calling, they will believe the gospel by faith, because the Spirit will bring light to the gospel,
---Mark_V. on 11/22/07


#4. the Spirit will convict them of their sins against a holy God, they will repent, and their debt will paid for, because "Mercy" has been granted to them. Mercy is not granted to those who reject Christ, "Justice" is given to them. The wicked will not turn to Christ because they love their father the prince and power of the air, Satan, and they love doing the desires of their father. Without question, everyone deserves Justice, but God has mercy on whom He wills.
---Mark_V. on 11/22/07


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