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Are Atheists Really Good

Since we do good because we want to get into heaven, is that considered being selfish, and if so, then technically aren't atheists the truly good, for doing deeds, not to get into heaven, but just to do them.

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 ---Davis on 10/18/07
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Oh come on now! I have never seen an atheist on a corner preaching anything and I doubt that you have either.

However, I have seen many holding signs, referancing Revelations, proclaiming the end is near while they scream "Repent!!!"
---matthew on 10/30/07

No! The Bible tells us that only a fool would say in his heart there is no God he is EVIL and he never does any GOOD. These people stands on street corners preaching there is no hell, there is no God, there is no devil you don't have to worry you won't go to hell. And people listens to Satan's lies Much more so that they would listen to a true God called preacher, How come? Because, we all want to believe that we will not be punished for our awful doings.
---catherine on 10/26/07

Alan you are welcome,you are right,it would be incorrect to use it like that if one means to "accept" Him. I have noticed that a lot of people get those two mixed up. I have been surprised how many News people get words wrong in Newspapers. They should know better.
---Darlene_1 on 10/25/07

We may be looking at some cultural differences here. On this blog, opinions seem to be interchangeable with provable facts. Bible quotes are interpreted in wildly different ways. Little acknoledgement is given to the fact mistranslations may have occurred and words do change their meanings over the years.
But I believe that debates and discussion In Great Britain are approached with a more civil, rational, and rigorous manner.

Or maybe that just a fantasy of a frustrated American.
---matthew on 10/24/07

Darlene ... Thanks! The American usage (sometimes we would say "useage" of "accept" and "except" is exaclty the same as in UK English.
So the common use of the phrase here of "except Jesus" is as incorrect in the US as in the UK
---alan_of_UK on 10/24/07

The death of Jesus on the Cross paid for the curse.
By surrendering misnomers about the Word of God, and surrendering to Him, we go way beyond the limits of man's seal of approval.
No one else's approval will ever matter.
Only the approval from the Heavenly Father matters.
---Bob on 10/23/07

Matthew ... You are beginning to understand! Join the club.
---alan_of_UK on 10/23/07

A literal hell and a literal heaven for all of eternity. A Judgment Day.
A Savior, Jesus Christ is His Name.

God said, "This is my beloved Son in whom I am well pleased".
That trumps any strawman argument, or phantom software running behind the scenes, sabotaging the Good News. The sad thing, 'some' are secretly setting their own trap for themselves.
---Bob on 10/23/07

Alan,in USA "accept" means to receive or agree with something. "Except" has four uses, as a preposition means with the exclusion-exception of,as verb means to take out,as conjuction means unless,it can also be used as "except for" also preposition which means with the exception or were it not for. In that you see why our form of English,actually American,is so hard to learn because one word can have different meanings.
---Darlene_1 on 10/23/07

I haven't been here for two years, but only two months. Perhaps there is another Matthew.
From your replies, I can't tell if your anger is directed at he, me, or us. But I am getting the sense of things, that some believe that their own view of God, reading of the Bible, right and wrong, etc., is the correct one, that some can easily identify others as reprobates, the unsaved, misreaders of the Bible, and sinners destined to Hell.
That's a little too self-righteous and prideful for me.
---matthew on 10/23/07

I've heard it said, there's nothing like a plane going down that will turn the hardened atheist into a believer. They start crying out for God to save them.
You have a choice, and noone here needs to convince you of anything. That's God's job.
Your comments are very telling of much bitterness. God's not going to force you to accept His plan for your salvation.
You can forfeit everything by your own choice.
---Bob on 10/23/07

I've wondered what keeps you coming back to CN, day after day. Surely not evolution blogs, or the questions you repeatedly ask others.
Until you turn to God for your wounded spirit and orphan heart, all of the bloggers cannot give you the Spirit of Adoption, or put you back together again.
You need a miracle. Only God can complete and free you.
All of your "stands" fail bitterly.
You've bailed on Jesus Christ. But He is the quintessential solution to your emotional virus.
---Bob on 10/23/07

When I first came to CN, some pleaded for more facts for you.
Two years later, you're still pleading for facts.
Here's a fact.
The last verse of the OT is a prediction of the orphan heart and the cure.
Malachi 4:5,6

..He will turn the hearts of the fathers to the children, turn children to the fathers..lest I come and strike the earth with a curse.

Until you surrender to the cure, you will still be bailing on Jesus Christ.
---Bob on 10/23/07

Matthew--- God does know everything but you and I do not. When you are saved from hell then you will know and understand more. When your salvation takes place and I pray that it will, don't forget your Bible tools. Have a good day.+++
---catherine on 10/23/07

matthew, I agree and believe that your heart interprets scripture. As long as I keep my eyes on Him and not on myself - He is faithful.
We don't get a theology test before we enter heaven and we will be surprised who is and isn't there.
Jesus was clear when He told the story about two men at the temple. Only one was pleasing to God. he had a contrite heart.
be blessed.
---Andrea on 10/23/07

Yes Andrea I do.

If God, as Phil seems to believe, knows before we are born our destiny, why doesn't God just skip giving us life and place us in Heaven or Hell.

If God knows every move before we are born then there's really not much sense in letting us be born.

And if we believe in such a God, then we really have no choices in our lives.
---matthew on 10/23/07

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matthew do you have a point?
---Andrea on 10/22/07

Matthew--Because God decided before the creation of this world to send His Son sos that we may become Holy through His Blood. Made right with God through Jesus' Blood. Man, it is all in the Blood. Don't deny the Blood, because if you do nothing is going to WORK. Have a good day ++
---catherine on 10/22/07

Catherine wrote: "Yes, no matter how good or moral a person may appear to be, if you are not saved..., you will die and go to hell."

Phil wrote: "God has the for knowledge of every action or inaction you will ever take in your life prior to your conception and birth. It is easily in God's capacity to to grant salvation on reprobation on the basis of His prior knowledge."

So apparently ethernal suffering in Hell is decided before we die, as is Salvation and Heaven.
---matthew on 10/22/07

So why doesn't God just skip the "Life" step and put us where he's already planned for us to be. He already knows everthing we we will do: whether we will seek salvation, and our destinies in Heaven or Hell.

And since he knows before birth who's going to Hell, why does he allow people to be born who's destinies are eternal suffering in Hell. Is that not sadistic?
---matthew on 10/22/07

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Good morning Matthew. First of all God is not sadistic. He gets no pleasure in sending people to hell. If God was like that He never, ever, would have sent His only Son to die a most awful dead on the cross. He would and could have sentence everyone to hell and been done with it. Washed His hands of all of us sinners. Betty>>Damnation and destruction are the same. Yes, no matter how good or moral a person may appear to be, if you are not saved by the Blood of Jesus Christ, you will die and go to hell.
---catherine on 10/22/07


Psalms 14: " The fool hath said in his heart there is no God, ..."

Mt 7:17 Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit, but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit.
If we are doing good works in order to get into heaven, then we are missing the mark. We should do good works because it is our nature, and because we want to please our Heavenly Father.
---trey on 10/22/07


Is Christ your friend?
John 15:14 Ye are my friends, if ye do whatsoever I command you.

Last of all, good works don't get us to heaven.
Titus 3:5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost,

Hope that helps.

Lord bless all of you.
---trey on 10/22/07

If you are doing good to get a cookie so to speak you are missing the reason for following the savior. Your life will be drastically enhanced for the better if you do good as you put it. Atheists are neither good nor bad, and who says they do good more often then not? God understands atheists, he does not fear them, nor should we concern ourselves with them. Having personal private prayer, speaking honestly with God is the best mission to be on. Just pray for guidance and the truth, all else will follow.
---Doug on 10/22/07

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2Pe 3:9 The Lord is .... not willing that ANY should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

Don't try to make God a cruel puppeteer who creates some people solely for the purpose of eternal torture. How could you love somebody like that?
---jerry6593 on 10/21/07

I'm sorry my question about "except" and "accept" has aroused hostility.
I was just asking whether in the US different spellings were used from what we in the UK use.
US and UK spellings and word usage differ considerably, and we should try to understand this so that we can know what the other guy is saying.
Incidentally, some words used on these blogs would be regarded as offensive in the UK, ans similarly, acceptable words in the UK are not OK in the US.
---alan_of_UK on 10/20/07

God has predestined all to become the Sons and Daughters of God, It is by choice what you destiny will be. accept Jesus and become his child or refuse him and remain the seed of Satan.
---exzucuh on 10/20/07

My friend,there is good in everyone that
live and have life.But there is also evil
in as many as well.We live to eliminate one or the other from our spirits
AS we chose,they perform.
---Jack on 10/19/07

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Matthew, since God has the for knowledge of every action or inaction you will ever take in your life prior to your conception and birth. It is easily in God's capacity to to grant salvation on reprobation on the basis of His prior knowledge. Man has the free will to act stupid and God knows when we are going screw up in advance.
---Phil_the_Elder on 10/19/07

Andrea .... I was just asking whether "except" was standard US usage for what in the UK would be "accept"
We have had other words where US and UK usage or spelling have been completely (and interestingly) different.
There are words in use on these blogs which would be rejected as obscene in England, and some words which are innocent in England are unacceptable in the US.
---alan_of_UK on 10/19/07

I believe that there is a Scripture that altogether solves the problem.

"That at the name of Jesus, every knee will bow and every tongue will confess that Jesus Christ is Lord to the glory of God the Father."

That takes care of everybody in heaven, in earth, and under the earth.
---Linda on 10/19/07

{{Does God pre-destined some unborn to Hell with no hope of salvation?}}
Matthew: Not to answer for Phil or Catherine but I looked up "predestination" in Nave's Topical Bible & found more than 80 verses that support this concept. However, I'm not sure that all who are not 'predestined" to salvation are destined for hell. I think that there's a difference between "destruction" & "damnation."
---tracy3346 on 10/19/07

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Matthew: Please read Romans chap. 9, Here's a small part... "Therefore He has mercy on whom He will have mercy, and whom He will, He hardens. You will then say to me, Why does He yet find fault? For who has resisted His will? No, but, O man, who are you who replies against God? Shall the thing formed say to Him who formed it, Why have you made me this way?" (Rom 9:18-20)
---tracy3346 on 10/19/07

God calls every one to serve him The bible says many are called but few are chosen as i under stand that scripture it mean compared to the ones that are lost it will be a few that obeys the Lord to serve him
---betty on 10/19/07

Catherine and Phil,

Phil wrote: "God choses you and grants salvation only to whom he choses and God made that decision prior to your birth."

Catherine wrote: " can only except Christ if God leads you into it."

I am twisting nothing. Are you destined by God before birth to Heaven or Hell? Or, can God chose to lead you to salvation after you are born?
---matthew on 10/19/07

Matthew you are trying to twist everything around. Get you some Bible tools and study for yourself. We do not pretend to understand everything. Only God does.
---catherine on 10/19/07

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Phil and Catherine,

You seem to agree, but there is a major exception to accepting Christ in your two viewpoints. Phil believes that God choses who can be saved and enter Heaven BEFORE THEY ARE BORN, leaving no opportunity other than an eternity in Hell. Catherine believes that God must lead you to salvation. Does God pre-destined some unborn to Hell with no hope of salvation?
---matthew on 10/19/07

A little more back to the topic.

So is the conclusion that those who God has decided to save, can sin, but be forgiven, if they accept Christ, and enter Heaven?

But those who God has decided unfit for salvation before they were born, can do any manner of good works and behave in ways that most Christains would consider inscutablely moral, but still will find Hell when they die.

Is this right?
---matthew on 10/19/07

Most of the UK people that I've met, Dukes and Duchesses, understand US lingo very well, even all of the misspelled words.
Let freedom and the Liberty bell ring.
---Bob on 10/19/07

cute UK

"accept Christ" is the proper term but English has so many sound alikes its hard to keep track. Except if you don't want to accept Christ then we'll make an exception for your not accepting etc etc etc
---Andrea on 10/19/07

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Don't we "accept" Christ ... not "except" Him?
I only ask because the word is used so often in a way that is to UK ppeople anyway incorrectly.
---alan_of_UK on 10/19/07

Matthew>>>You have it correct. And you can only except Christ if God leads you into it. What ever god you serve, if it is not the God that Phil and myself are speaking of, then you my friend are serving a false, fake and not a real god.>>>There can only be one God.
---catherine on 10/19/07

When you say someone's a "good person" you have actually said the LEAST you can say about him. Even Adolph Hitler pet dogs, kissed babies, abstained from tobacco and alcohol, and from his point of view was well meaning.
---Jack on 10/19/07

Davis, not all Christians do good for the sole purpose of getting into heaven & honestly, do you really believe anyone does good deeds "just to do them"? There are various motives for doing good deeds. Are there not rewards in this life for doing them? Even atheists understand that concept. Businesses don't give charitable contributions out of the goodness of their hearts. Politicians don't kiss babies simply because they're fond of them.
---tracy3346 on 10/19/07

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Our God-given conscience is a factor as well. God looks upon our hearts & judges our motives. He knows when one does good deeds out of selfish ambition & when they do them out of love.

Duane: How true!
---tracy3346 on 10/19/07

Anyone can be good but not everyone has the knowledge or understanding how to attain/sustain being Holy. Unless you are Holy as Christ is Holy, one cannot enter into the Kingdom of Heaven. Thats the challenge not being ''good''. So what is Holy well it is to practice What Christ/Apostles have outlined in the HOLY BIBLE Read Daily, Believe, Trust, Hope and Obey.
---Carla5754 on 10/19/07

working good works of Christ towards the end reward is not selfishness unless the end reward is become first to you, rather than the Lord and his will being first to you. And no atheist enters into heaven, no matter what good things they have done, because they have denied the Lord and the Lord their Maker will likewise deny them and throw them into everlasting hell.
---Eloy on 10/19/07

Phil, so:

Some people are chosen by God to be saved and go to Heaven, and those people will do good works and live by God's commandments.

Other people are chosen by God to burn in Hell no matter what they do.

But isn't it possible that someone could accept Christ who God decided before they were born was to burn in Hell?

What would God do then? Change his mind, or renege on his promise for salvation?
---matthew on 10/18/07

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You are correct, matthew.
Good works without Jesus Christ mean little.
There are no roads to heaven paved with good intentions and works.
Jesus Christ is the only Way you will allowed to enter.
---Bob on 10/18/07

If it's really this hard for you to accept Jesus Christ, take up your cross and follow Him, imagine what it will be like for you if you're alive when the tribulation arrives.
You're not trying to convince the Christians that we should give up heaven for atheism, are you? It's a dead end. Atheists are not truly good, they're in rebellion.
---Bob on 10/18/07

God created this world, Adam and Eve fell down. It would have been magnificent if they had not, but they did. Those that withstand the trials and temptations this world has to offer, to occupy until we cross that great divide, there's a crown waiting. Death will have no sting. Victory. The half has not been told how great it will be.
If you don't want it, it is your decision. But there's nothing you can tell me about atheism that would persuade me to give up heaven for your opinions about hell.
---Bob on 10/18/07

Satan has a will and emotions, angels do. He decided with his will to rebel against God.
This is where predestination, OSAS, You Can't Lose goes out the window.
At any time, you can choose to rebel against God and you can lose your salvation. Satan did and so did Judas. You are not set for life. Those are the ultimate false security doctrines of eternal security.
Satan fell because of his rebellion and exalting his will against God.
You can do that too. The choice is all up to you.
---Bob on 10/18/07

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God is good. No person is "good" and "doing good" does not earn salvation. Anyone can "do good," athiest, Christian, or muslim. When Christ saves you, you do good out of gratitude and conviction. Good grief!
---bartel on 10/18/07

remedial instruction
not from you Elder. please
this is not the bad news of Jesus Christ -- it is the good news.
---Andrea on 10/18/07

Good people doing good works will burn in Hell for all of eternity unless they accept Christ.
---matthew on 10/18/07
I'm an annihilist (see NT Wright) but if God sends his son to take your punishment and you refuse His reconciliation. Yes you are lost for all eternity.

God made a way. We do not decide who or when just that He loves mankind so much He took the punishment for them.
all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God.
---Andrea on 10/18/07

"So, I guess I've got my answer.Good people doing good works will burn in Hell for all of eternity unless they accept Christ. --matthew"
Would you prefer they be rewarded for rejecting Christ? And does "doing good words" negate their sins? No, it doesn't. If you are disobedient, you are punished. If you reject Christ, you have chosen your own fate.
---Debbie_in_Ohio on 10/18/07

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Only a FOOL would say there is no GOD, they are evil and never do any good. For It is written.>>>> No true Christian believes that doing good works alone will get them to heaven. God however, expects good works [service to him] after we are saved. And no true Christian thinks that they can do as please and still make it to heaven. God will not allow this kind of behavior or thoughts. Perhaps, this is why Jesus said, "only a few".
---catherine on 10/18/07

Andrea & Matthew, you seem to be in need of a little remedial instruction in the salvation process. You don't chose God, God choses you and grants salvation only to whom he choses and God made that decision prior to your birth. I would suggest you review Eph. 1:3-11 and Romans 8:11 - 11:36.
---Phil_the_Elder on 10/18/07

So, I guess I've got my answer.

Good people doing good works will burn in Hell for all of eternity unless they accept Christ.
---matthew on 10/18/07

Mark 10:18 says And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, the is God. So there for it doesn't matter how "good" u are, without Jesus Christ you can't enter into heaven believe it or not thats ur choice Im not judging u God does and he already did and what u do is up to u.
---ANN on 10/18/07

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And some Christian's alone think doing good works get them into heaven so no if they person don't accept Jesus as their savior than they to can end up in hell. Jesus is the only way, and u can believe it or not I or anybody else can force u otherwise.
---ANN on 10/18/07

If your saved through faith, you will live through faith. Faith ALWAYS produces good works. We must believe on HIM or we wont be redeemed.
---duane on 10/18/07

Another prime example of the extreme views of atheism.
Atheists will not make it in. Reject Jesus Christ and you reject heaven.

Choice is not what you get.
It's what you decide when you choose.
Choose Jesus or choose hell.
Serve God or serve satan.

You decide, matthew.
---Bob on 10/18/07

Ann, So according to you:

Christains who are bad and don't do good works, but accept Christ go to Heaven.

And, atheists who behave ethically and do good works, but don't accept Christ go to Hell for everlasting fiery pain and torment.

So does that mean that anyone who accepts Christ can do anything they want and still make it to Heaven?
---matthew on 10/18/07

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God has chosen the people who are going to heaven before they were born so good works does not even get into the equation because there is no equation, it a done deal, you are either in our out and anything you do or don't do has no baring on it.
---Phil_the_Elder on 10/18/07

this is the excuse people use when they don't want to evangelize or share their faith and it is bogus.
---Andrea on 10/18/07

We Christians aren't good and doing good works didn't get us into heaven, accepting Jesus Christ as our Savior got us into heaven. And atheists don't believe in heaven or hell, and even if they are good still won't get them into heaven only through Jesus and him alone u can.
---ANN on 10/18/07

Davis, I think you are on to something here, although I would extend the question beyond proclaimed atheists to people of other faiths as well.

But if an atheist, one who has rejected not only God, but Heaven and the tortures of Hell as well, does good works, is he not far more selfless AND courageous, than one who must use the promise of Heaven and the fear of Hell to behave properly?
---matthew on 10/18/07

To Phil the Elder: You say, "God has chosen the people who are going to heaven before they were born..."? That's the most demotivating thing I've heard in my life. That means that since God has already decided my fate, I should just sit around and wait to die, and go to Heaven or burn. Or, I should do anything I want because it isn't going to change my fate one way or the other.
---matthew on 10/18/07

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2)Why do you say that an athiest is good. No man is good. we lie,steal,covet,are greedy, jealous and only appear good to others as good as we exibit morals publically and have occasional nice jestures. But do you know the motives of an athiest's nice jestures to other? or apparent good morals? no. Selfish gain? probably.
---jody on 10/18/07

We do good because we Love Jesus and our goal in life is to be pleasing to Him. Secondarily, we do seek eternal life and that being in Heaven but you may say it is selfish but to fear burning throughout eternity the tortures of hell is a decision about how you want to spend time. Would an athiest choose to be tortured if given the option? I think not. There is one way to heaven and it is through Jesus christ.
---jody on 10/18/07

Davis, You seem to have the process backwards. Christians perform good works as a result of their salvation not as a condition for it.

God has chosen the people who are going to heaven before they were born so good works does not even get into the equation because there is no equation, it a done deal, you are either in our out and anything you do or don't do has no baring on it.
---Phil_the_Elder on 10/18/07

Ding ding went the trolley
Clang clang went the bell...

Atheism, the alternative 'root', get your kicks on Route 666.
Get your real kicks on Judgment Day.
---Bob on 10/18/07

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PT 1
Atheist may be ethical sinners but they are still sinners.
Christians are sinners with a Savior.
The Savior offered Himself to all mankind, that's what it means when the bible refers to Jews and gentiles. (non-jews are the equivalent of atheists/pagans in biblical terminlogy. It is not personal it is fact. They are spiritually seperated from God. He freely offers to reconcile them to Himself.
---Andrea on 10/18/07

PT 2
They must recieve this free gift to get the gift of eternal life with God.
If you want to be with God, play by God's rules.
Ask Him into your heart to be Lord and Savior, ask Him to reveal Himself to you. Repent and receive Him
---Andrea on 10/18/07

I was an atheists till I was 30, I was an ethical atheist.
Personally sometimes I like atheists more then christians bc at least they know they're unbelievers. Christians get so convoluted (sometimes) trying to be good they miss the very point that we can not be good.
We wear the righteousness of Christ and not our own. It is the single most powerful thing a human can do, ask God to come into them and receive the God of the Universe into your heart.

pretty amazing stuff
---Andrea on 10/18/07

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