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Is There Everlasting Hell

Some churches do not believe in a everlasting hell. So I ask, what does this scripture mean? Mark 14:44 "And if thy hand offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter into life maimed, than having two hands to go into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched:

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About so called everlasting hell. It is something you will get the right answer if you google "aion aionios" and pray that John 3:27 will give you clarity of thought. HELL is a mistranslation, as is WORLD, ETERNAL, FOR EVER AND EVER, on and on. I would give you my e-mail address but that is not allowed unfortunatly. If one wants good answers one must be able to have two way communication.
---Bob on 3/7/10


Gina7,

Out of curiosity, how do you interpret the following verses:

Mt25:46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.

My question is what is your definition of everlasting? If it ceases, then does eternal also cease?

2Pe2:17 These are wells without water, clouds that are carried with a tempest, to whom the mist of darkness is reserved for ever.

What's your definition of forever?

Isa66:24 And they shall go forth, and look upon the carcases of the men that have transgressed against me: for their worm shall not die, neither shall their fire be quenched, and they shall be an abhorring unto all flesh.

I believe hell is a fire that is never quenched.
---trey on 11/11/08


gina7, Rev.20:10, The devil, who deceived them, was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone where the beast and the false prophet are. AND THEY WILL BE TORMENTED DAY AND NIGHT FOREVER AND EVER. In other words, as we read in Matt.25:41, Those humans who were cursed, by rejecting Christ, didn't make it into heaven. They were deceived by Satan and cast into the lake of fire with him and his angels to receive the same fate. God says that there is an eternal punishment. And His Word is true!
---Mike356 on 11/10/08


gina7.... Whether saved or dead in our sins, our spirits are forever. Matt.13:42 "and will cast them into the furnace of fire. There will be wailing and gnashing of teeth". Matt.25:41, Then He will also say to those on the lefthand, Depart from me, you cursed, into the everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels, You don,t need an everlasting fire if at the end of the earth youve burnt everything up! The gnashing and wailing indicates a continuous action. Finaly...
---Mike356 on 11/10/08


gina7, 2cor.5:8, Paul says, We are confident,yes,well pleased rather to be absent from the body and to be present with the Lord. Phil.1:23,For I am hard pressed between the two, having a desire to depart and to be with Christ,which is far better, Paul knew whether death or Rapture he would immediatly be with the Lord. Eccl.12:7, Then the dust(our bodies)will return to the earth as it was, And the spirit will return to God who gave it. Our spirit and bodies are two different things. God Can Resurrect them both, and will, at the Great White Throne Judgement. Rev.20.11-15
---Mike356 on 11/10/08




Only God has immortality: 1 Tim 6:16
Eternal life is the gift of God through Jesus Christ Rom 6:23

Sinners do not have immortality, eternal life, living forever. The wages of sin is death- Rom 6:23. Death is ceasing to exist, being burned up in lake of fire. It is 2nd death, separation from God. That is the punishment for sin, not being allowed to live! Not being tortured forever! Sinners will die in lake of fire. Fire burns things up, consumes them. They will be ashes under the soles of our feet. Mal 4:3 "And ye shall tread down the wicked, for they shall be ASHES under the soles of your feet in the day that I shall do this, saith the Lord of Hosts"

What happens when someone is cremated by fire? They turn to ashes
---Gina7 on 11/8/08


"For behold, the day cometh, that shall burn as an oven, and all the proud, yea, and all that do wickedly, shall be as stubble, and the day that cometh shall burn them up, saith the Lord of hosts, that it shall leave them neither root nor branch.. and ye shall tread down the wicked, for they shall be ashes under the soles of your feet in the day that I shall do this, saith the Lord of Hosts" Malachi 4:1,3

What happens when someone is cremated by fire? They turn to ashes

What happens when someone is thrown into the Lake of
Fire? They turn to ashes.

"Burn them up"
"Leave them neither root nor branch"
"Ashes under the soles of your feet"
"The wages of sin is death"
---Gina7 on 11/8/08


The devil is described as being turned to ashes in Ezekiel 28:18:

"I will bring forth a fire from the midst of thee, it shall devour thee, and I will bring thee to ashes upon the earth in the sight of all them that behold thee"

This is the commonly accepted chapter that describes Lucifer before the fall that starts out "Thou sealest up the sum, full of wisdom and perfect in beauty, thou hast been in the garden of God..." vs 12

The wicked Malachi 4, and the devil are turned to ashes by fire. The fire goes out once it burns everything sinful up, root and branch. All sin and sinners are cremated!

The wages of sin is death, being turned to ashes. The wicked "shall not be" Psalm 37:10
---Gina7 on 11/8/08


Gina7: You preach the Word, and are attacked for it. Seems to me that is both what Christ told us to do and what He said we should expect from it. The Bible is the ONLY common point of reference that we assorted Christians here have. If we can't explain our beliefs in terms of the scriptures, then what can we use as a basis? Our feelings? Keep up the good work! You're doing fine!
---jerry6593 on 11/1/08
Thank you for your comments Jerry. I will continue to preach the Word.

"If the world hate you, ye know that it hated me before it hated you" John 15:18

"We are of God, he that knoweth God heareth us, he that is not of God heareth us not" I John 4:6
---Gina7 on 11/8/08


"For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him. For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep. For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first, then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so shall we ever be with the Lord. Wherefore comfort one another with these words" 1 Thes 4:13-18

The comfort is not that the dead are already in heaven
---Gina7 on 11/8/08




"Wherefore comfort one another with these words" 1 Thes 4:18

The comfort is not that the dead are already in heaven, but that they will be resurrected and taken to heaven at the 2nd coming. So do not sorry over the dead in Christ whom you have lost, we will see them again at the resurrection!

"For if the dead rise not, then is not Christ raised: and if Christ be not raised, your faith is in vain, ye are yet in your sins. Then they also which are fallen asleep in Christ are perished" 1 Cor 15:16,17,18

Why think that those who have fallen asleep in Christ are perished if they go directly to heaven at death? It is because they do not, they are in the grave until the resurrection at the 2nd coming.
---Gina7 on 11/8/08


"But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the first fruits of them that slept" "Christ the firstfruits, afterward they that are Christ's at his coming" 1 Cor 15: 20, 23

At the 2nd coming, when the dead are raised, they will say "O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory?" 1 Cor 15:55
because Christ just raised them from the dead and they are so happy to be alive again. They were not already in heaven alive,to brought down to be put into a body, to be raised up and then fake this exclamation of victory over death and the grave, because they were asleep in the grave.

The Bible is clear, the dead in Christ live again at 2nd coming's resurrection.
---Gina7 on 11/8/08


Our body and spirit is one until we die. At death the spirit leaves and returns to God who gave it. Then God decides what happens. The body is rotting and useless and we will be given regenerated glorious bodies when Christ comes to earth and then we will reign with him forever either on earth or in Heaven. These things are not clearly outlined in the Bible. Thus, we live by faith. We live hoping for a good outcome to our efforts.
---frances008 on 11/7/08


Beware of Jerry, he likes to tell people they said something that they never said. Not a holding tank, but a spiritual state of suspension, waiting the Final Judgement. It may be a state of restful sleep for the saints. Then, they may be awakened when the Trumpet sounds on the last day.
---frances008 on 11/7/08


Frances: So now are we to believe that people exist as disembodied spirits - living in a holding tank - until God gets around to reclaiming their rotting corpses for them to re-inhabit? Tell me, are these spirits conscious at this time? Are they happy about their condition?

I like the Bible version better - asleep in the grave until the resurrection (in a new, perfect, real body) at Jesus' second coming, followed by a trip to our eternal home with Him. No spititualistic voodoo mumbo-jumbo or spirit soup holding tanks for me, thanks!
---jerry6593 on 11/7/08


frances,
our spirits do not return to God until Jesus comes back for them.
We rest until that time. Jesus plainly says in Revelations for us to wait and be patient.
We find peaceful rest in the Lord until his return.
This passage is actually in Matthew 5:29-31
It is a parrable about the Body of Christ. We as Christians are all members or "parts" of the "body" of Christ.
If your "hand" or part of this body offends causing sin, then "cut" it off or correct it. Seperate yourself. Or "Be ye circumcised" not physically but Spiritually. For Christians to stay for God, we have to seperate ourselves from the ways of the World.
---miche3754 on 11/7/08


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To Rhonda, Let me help clear this issue of "Vision" or "Seen" with the original languages that are available to you All. In the OT the Hebrew word "chazown" means a vision (not saw) as used in the visions of Isaiah, Daniel, etc.... The word used in the NT for Matt.17:9 is the Greek word "horama" which means, "gazed at", a "spectacle". As a noun it signifies "That which IS Seen". If the Lord had meant vision and/or Matthew in this case, he would have used the greek word "horasis" or "optasia", both of which Do mean vision!
---Mike356 on 11/6/08


Vision is the object of the verb 'to see'. Obviously they were not physical bodies, but they were spiritual bodies. Why would Jesus do this? As a trick to impress everyone? No it was a privilege he was allowing his specially chosen disciples. Jesus was not a magician, but the Son of God and he could command these two men to spiritually come to earth. Please correct me if wrong.
---frances008 on 11/6/08


Jerry, I don't claim that David is in heaven, hell, or with God. I just claim that his spirit went to God on the day he passed away, and that God sent his spirit to the holding place where spirits are which await the resurrection, or condemnation. Since God is everywhere, there is no time he is away from God. But God's particular Kingdom is Heaven (which may or may not be 'paradise') and that is only for those who go on to eternal life with Him. That is present now in the righteous, and it is a future Kingdom to come to earth when Jesus returns.
---frances008 on 11/6/08


To further understand the transfiguration as a VISION or a supernatural experience and not a REAL event is to look to BASIC scripture that leads to the understanding of this difficult passage

Matt 16:27 ...For the Son of man shall come ...and then he shall reward every man according to his works.

John 3:13 ...no man hath ascended up to heaven...

Heb 11:39 ...And these all, having obtained a good report through faith, received not the promise...

Peter James John saw a vision of them as they will be when they are glorified in the resurrection when Christ RETURNS 1Thes 4:13-17, 1Cor 15:51-52

the promise of salvation FOR ALL occurs at the RETURN of Christ not before
---Rhonda on 11/6/08


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I already provided two verses that say that our spirits return to God (or fly away) and our body goes to the dust.
---frances008 on 11/6/08


Rhonda *KEY WORD is VISION the word used is vision not saw*

While Mt 17:9 says "Tell the vision (or seen, in other versions) to no man," the Mark (9:9) account says "he charged them that they should tell no man what things they had seen..."
---Geoff on 11/6/08


***
Jerry, you are quick to bring in Spiritualism, but even the gospel tells us how Jesus appeared with Moses and Elias just after Jesus was transfigured.
****

Frances the key word in Matt 17 makes the transfiguration clear ...KEY WORD is VISION the word used is vision not saw

Moses and Elias did not appear with Christ

...it was a VISION ...Christ was VERY CLEAR when he said TELL NO MAN OF THIS VISION

Christ did not say tell no man you saw Moses and Elias

which do you believe the false ministers who told you to believe a vision was SEEN AND REAL or Christ who told us PLAINLY that it was a vision
---Rhonda on 11/6/08


Frances: "Jerry, the quote from Acts only proves that David's body is still on earth, as are all bodies, until the Ressurrection of the dead to judgement."

That is not true. The quote says that the person "David" is not ascended into heaven - not David's body. Isn't the person Frances more than merely her body? The Bible defines a soul (person) as the combination of dust (body) and God's breath of life. When either is missing, the soul necessarily ceases to exist.

If David were in heaven, as you claim, then why did Jesus say he would return and "receive [him] unto myself, that where I am, there [he] may be also."
---jerry6593 on 11/6/08


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Samuel, not believing there is a hell does not send you to hell. God never removes His Grace from those who are His Children. Grace was free in the first place. The only thing sending the others to hell is their rebellion against God and rejection of Christ.
They are under the penalty of the law that has sentenced them, and they need to get their debt paid, and the only way they can pay it, is if Christ pay's it for them. But they need to have faith in Christ. Otherwise they are under the law of condemnation. As Larry said, Hell is everlasting whether one believes it or not. MarkV.

True. My point is that the torture of the wicked is not the punishment. But death and destruction. GOD said he will destory the wicked. I beleive Him.
---Samuel on 11/4/08


Jerry, you are quick to bring in Spiritualism, but even the gospel tells us how Jesus appeared with Moses and Elias just after Jesus was transfigured. When a person is cremated then what, do they become dust? No. The body and spirit separate and won't be united again until we see Jesus and have new transformed bodies which will be perfect. Before that we are sent (our spirits) back to God to await the great White Throne Judgement. Hell is a place where the wicked dead await Judgement. Purgatory is where those who have not quite made it to holiness are purified. (This is Catholic Doctrine and I believe in this bit).
---frances008 on 11/3/08


Jerry, the quote from Acts only proves that David's body is still on earth, as are all bodies, until the Ressurrection of the dead to judgement.
---frances008 on 11/3/08


Jerry, have you ever seen a dead body. That is all it is. Just a body. There is nobody at home. The spirit has flown. All Near Death Experience people who talk of all the things that prove the Bible to be true, that there is a life after death, that you get treated according to your own obedience to God, etc. etc. agree that they immediately leave their bodies and go through a tunnel etc. They almost all experience the same things. Why would they lie? What would their agenda be. Many are former atheists who convert when they come back to their earthly bodies - and become Christians not New Agers. Some become pastors, some already were pastors.
---frances008 on 11/3/08


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***when do ALL HEAR his voice? at the LAST TRUMP when Christ defeats death 1Corin 15***

Actually when Jesus Christ defeats death is AFTER the 1000 years. Satan is bound for 1000 years....will be let out....after that the 2nd resurrection of death and hades, to forever be sent to a lake of fire for all eternity.

Make surte you're part of the 1st resurrection...which begins TODAY, IN CHRIST....those who are buried into His death and raised up a New Creature/Creation.....wqe live NOW on the reusrrection side of the Cross.
---kathr4453 on 11/3/08


Jerry, there are two things I wish to say about David. One, we cannot be certain that God has judged him righteous eventually, even though he did many good things, he did many wicked things too. But let us say for the sake of argument that he is Heavenbound: he died before Jesus was born. Therefore things were different. When Jesus rose He took with Him many people from the graves and they appeared as living people and were seen for a while in Jerusalem - some of them. I have seen many arguments to say various things by picking of verses, when the verses did not apply to all people/cases. It is quite the fashion to do this. IE Misapply the Bible.
---frances008 on 11/3/08


Thank you Mark ... I think we both of us perhaps fall into the temptation of thinking the other is "having a go" at us ... hence you thought i was accusing you of lying when I was not.

We need to learn not to be quite so sensitive, and to read what the other actually has said before rushing inot print
---alan_of_UK on 11/3/08


Continue"
Another passage that deals with what you are saying to me in your response is, Matthew 26:41. this passage was given to me by ShawnT, "Watch and pray, lest you enter into temptation. The Spirit indeed is willing, but the flesh is weak" Hope this helps you understand my position.
---MarkV. on 11/3/08


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Alan, I will not fall for the temptation this time as I did before by permitting my flesh to answer you wrong as I did once. God forgave me for it and no matter what you throw at me this time I will pretend like you never wrote anything. I told God I would be more careful if it happened again.
---MarkV. on 11/3/08


Continue"
Alan, I will do my best not to misrepresent you again. I hope that helps you. Jesus calls this confession if a brother offends another he is to go to him first and then to God. So here it is. Any temptation that might come from my answers to you are not intended to be for that cause. If you take it wrong I wanted you to know ahead of time. That is found in Matthew 5:23-24.
---MarkV. on 11/3/08


Jerry, adding onto yesterday's answer to you, after Jesus rose from the dead he made several appearances to people. He wasn't readily recognized and didn't resemble the Saviour who was badly beaten and crucified. As far as calling the spirit being absent from the body "spiritualism", it says in Phillipians chap. 1,verses 22-25 Paul was "in a strait betwixt two, having a desire to depart, & to be with Christ, which is far better: Nevertheless to abide in the flesh is more needful to you. And having this confidence, I know that I shall abide & continue with you all for your furtherance & joy of faith." In II Corinthians chap. 5, vs. 8, he speaks of being absent from the body & present with the Lord!
---theresa on 11/3/08


Frances: "Perhaps some remain in the graves if they have not the Spirit of God in them." How do you then explain King David - a man after God's own heart?

Act 2:29, 34 Men and brethren, let me freely speak unto you of the patriarch David, that he is both dead and buried, and his sepulcher is with us unto this day..... For David is not ascended into the heavens:

The Bible teaches that the dead remain dead until the resurrection, The first (for the righteous) at Jesus second coming, and the second (for the wicked) a thousand years later. This eternal living disembodied spirit belief is plain old spiritualism - and is not biblical.
---jerry6593 on 11/3/08


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I believe it is written in Psalm 90verse 10 and Ecclesiastes 12 verse 7 that our spirits fly back to God.
---frances008 on 11/3/08


Mark ... You misrepresent me when you say "You didn't have to give an example of your case to show I was lying"

I did NOT say you were lying.
---alan_of_UK on 11/3/08


Mark ...
You changed your mind and started responding to me. Frances changed her mind a responded further to you.

Neither you nor she lied.

You misrepresent me when you say "You didn't have to give an example of your case to show I was lying"

I did NOT say you were lying.

But you had accused Frances of lying.
---alan_of_UK on 11/3/08


Frances

where is the scripture that supports one's soul returning to God? ...Gods Spirit dwells in the mind of a True Christian and it is Gods Spirit that returns to Him when we die THAT is scriptural


Mark

present on the good side? of what? and this relates to your man made idea of a place called hell how?
---Rhonda on 11/2/08


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Jerry, in Phillipians chap. 3, verses 20-21, "....whence also we look for the Saviour, the Lord Jesus Christ: Who shall change our vile body, that it may be fashioned like unto his glorious body, according to the working whereby he is able even to subdue all things unto himself." He has a glorious body now, not the mangled one described in Isaiah chap. 52, vs. 14 "...his visage was so marred more than any man..." Of course, this described his future appearance at the time after the crucifixtion and being whipped, etc.
---theresa on 11/2/08


Rhonda, after people die their spirits return to God, this is Scriptural. Eccles and Psalms. Perhaps some remain in the graves if they have not the Spirit of God in them. But even those people will be raised eventually for appearance before God and the Final Judgement.
---frances008 on 11/2/08


Rhonda, John 5:28 also has, verses 29,30. They speak of the resurrection of the dead. Yes, "all" will hear His voice. " And verse 29 says, "And come forth-those who have done good, to the resurrection of life." Good here are those who believed in the Son who have received a new nature that produces good works, (3:21, James 2:14-20)"and those who have done evil, to the resurrection of condemnation" While the "evil" done is to reject the Son and hate the light, which has the result of evil deeds (3:18,19). Yes, Rhonda, the hour is coming and all have a chance in life, to receive Christ as their Savior in order that when that time comes they are present on the good side.
---MarkV. on 11/2/08


****
The only thing sending the others to hell is their rebellion against God and rejection of Christ.
****

where are the verses that support "others getting sent to hell" from Gods Word???

John 5:28
Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice...

...KEYWORD IS ALL ...not a few ...to believe lie of place called hell one must believe God lies in John 5:28

so where is this "place called hell" in Gods Truth if HIS WORD DECLARES ALL are in the graves?

when do ALL HEAR his voice? at the LAST TRUMP when Christ defeats death 1Corin 15
---Rhonda on 11/1/08


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Gina7: You preach the Word, and are attacked for it. Seems to me that is both what Christ told us to do and what He said we should expect from it. The Bible is the ONLY common point of reference that we assorted Christians here have. If we can't explain our beliefs in terms of the scriptures, then what can we use as a basis? Our feelings? Keep up the good work! You're doing fine!

And, I'm sorry, but the "I can act like a jerk because I admit I'm a sinner" argument just doesn't cut it for me. A jerk is still a jerk no matter how he justifies it.
---jerry6593 on 11/1/08


Samuel, not believing there is a hell does not send you to hell. God never removes His Grace from those who are His Children. Grace was free in the first place. The only thing sending the others to hell is their rebellion against God and rejection of Christ.
They are under the penalty of the law that has sentenced them, and they need to get their debt paid, and the only way they can pay it, is if Christ pay's it for them. But they need to have faith in Christ. Otherwise they are under the law of condemnation. As Larry said, Hell is everlasting whether one believes it or not.
---MarkV. on 10/31/08


To continue my preaching to MarkV, there is a verse that says that the Pharisees search the Scriptures thinking that in them they have eternal life. So there is something more than the Bible that is necessary to get us to Heaven. It is action. We are expected to behave in a certain way, to be living stones fitted together into a temple of God. If we are living we are doing something, unless we are paralized. If we are not doing good then by the law of fullness and emptiness (in the Art of War) we are leaving a gap for the devil to enter. Just BEING is not enough. We are put here to DO.
---frances008 on 10/31/08


Alan, "why didn't just gently get to the point in the first place?" You didn't have to give an example of your case to show I was lying. Your case and I was different. You can speak to me anytime you want.

As for Frances, I love her. She has her own opinions and supported her in that she has a right to her opinions, I said that already to Steveng and others. There is nothing wrong with someone giving their opinions. She doesn't need mercy from me. I am a sinner who needs mercy from Christ everyday. I am no better then anyone else who is in Christ. We all sin sometime or another but do our best not to.
---MarkV. on 10/31/08


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Mark ... I am certainly NOT calling you a liar

I am just gently (!!) suggesting that perhaps you should not call Frances a liar.
---alan_of_UK on 10/31/08


Thanks for your support, Alan.

There is a difference between lying wilfully and being momentarily forgetful, but I would not expect any mercy from MarkV on judgement day, only accusation. Fortunately Jesus is the judge. In the question above we are reminded or even commanded to judge ourselves because if we don't we will be judged not by men but by God Himself.
---frances008 on 10/31/08


It doesn't matter if some churches do not believe in an everlasting hell because hell IS ever lasting whether ones believes so or not. Don't miss salvation over a stupid argument against hell's enternity that would lead to an an absurd discussion of hell being akin to a length and thus temporary prison sentence.
larry

The don't miss salvation remark reminds me about a story I read. A pope came to the conclusion that the dead are asleep and hell destroys the wicked. The church told him to recant or he could not recieve last rites. Now a Pope who murdered people to get in did not have that problem of not recieving last rights. So why does not believing GOD tortures people for all eternity cost me my salvaion by Grace?
---Samuel on 10/31/08


Gina7 do you have anything to offer to anyone about the Truth? Then bring it out. And post it. "We have already cleared the air that you and everyone is still sinful" and that's including me. That has been established already.
And since we have cleared that hurdle now we can talk about the doctrines you so much defend.
I will answer anything I can with what I have studied. You want to speak concerning the law and the difference between the law and grace go for it.
We are under the Covenant of Grace, and I say we because you proclaim that you were saved by grace through faith. If that is the case, then we agree in one of the biggest doctrines of evengelicals.
---MarkV. on 10/31/08


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****
....that is why I am answering Gina7, Ken, and others because they are throwing Scriptures at us as if they didn't sin, and I do see that wrong since they are sinners themselves. So have no right to judge us
****

providing scripture isn't "judging" ...no "judgement" in Gina's postings

in presence of Gods Truth when TRUTH of his scripture is shared ...which is why YOU FEEL you are being "judged" as you cling ever more tightly to beliefs and lies given to you by men that contradict Gods Word ...this is why you believe scripture is "thrown at you" ... judgement you feel is not by messenger who SHARE Gods Plain Truth

big difference between feeling and understanding
---Rhonda on 10/31/08


Alan, I think I answerd your question very gently and hope it was clear enough for an answer. They were two different cases and very different in nature.
Thanks for gently checking up on me. And thanks for been there, I don't mind answering.
---MarkV. on 10/31/08


Alan, I did answer you because you said it was disrespectful not to. I was not going to answer your questions because all it did would be to cause conflict between you and me. Instead I thought it best not to. But you insisted by asking me over and over again, so I answered you.
If you want to call it a lie, then so be it. I lied. I have admitted I am a sinner. I am not ashame to say I am nothing in the face of Christ. I don't deserve salvation.
I never insisted for Frances to respond to me. I believed her in good intentions.
---MarkV. on 10/31/08


Gina, have you not given Scriptures to others concerning the conduct of those who are saved who don't agree with you? Have you not pointed out that we should not break the laws?
I don't believe anyone who is save needs passages from another brother or sister about the conduct of their lives unless they are asking for advice on how to live. Since each believer has the Spirit of Truth, God brings the light of His word to each individual at the time He wants him or her to learn.
If you were only teaching conduct to others, it would be great, but you are not. You are accusing the others of breaking the law, in which all of you break the law yourselves.
---MarkV. on 10/31/08


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****
Spiritual beings live forever preferably in God's presence
****

Spiritual beings do live forever having life inherent ...Satan has life inherent as do all angels

Humans are not spiritual beings we DO NOT have life inherent ...man BECAME a living soul we did not exist prior

..salvation is a FUTURE GIFT to be INHERITED with more than 200 verses foretelling this (Job 31:2, Psalm 37:9,11,18,22,29, Matt 5:5, 25:34, Luke 10:25, 1Corin 6:9, Gal 3:18, Eph 5:5, Heb 6:12, Rev 21:7)

humans ARE NOT spiritual beings ...easy to understand KNOWING flesh and blood do not INHERIT salvation (1Corin 15:50)

...it is appointed once for all men to die (Heb 9:27)

...Christ overcomes death at his return (1Corin 15)
---Rhonda on 10/31/08


Frances, I don't know why you are fighting with the flesh. I am not causing that at all. You did say you would not answer me, and I was sure you would be honest and not write. I didn't make that commitment you did. I understand that people sin, that is why I speak as I do. No one can escape that even if they are saved.
I don't stand an judge anyone as you say, as a matter of fact that is why I am answering Gina7, Ken, and others because they are throwing Scriptures at us as if they didn't sin, and I do see that wrong since they are sinners themselves. So have no right to judge us. Now you are judging me for defending the faith for no reason at all other then I pointed you had lied and you did. You are mad at me because you yourself sinned.
---MarkV. on 10/31/08


Mark ... Can I very gently point out something to you?

You accuse Frances of lying because "You just finished saying to me on another blog you would not answer me", and now she is responding to you on this blog.

Do you remember when yuo once said to me that you would never answer me again? When you did answer me later, I did not think you had lied earlier.
---alan_of_UK on 10/31/08


Seems to me you want to show how self-righteous you are and how terrible everyone else is, just because you believe in Saturday Sabbath.
---MarkV. on 10/30/08
I just cannot believe the vicious spirit that is within you. You sound like all the others who have been convicted of the truth but do not want to obey.. they come after me instead, attacking me saying evil hurtful things like this. I never used to understand why attacks like this came my way, until it was explained to me that darkness hates the light, and my example was a rebuke to them therefore to make them feel better they felt they had to attack me, to justify their disobedience. Attack me all you like, but it only serves to make you look bad, and is un-Christlike.
---Gina7 on 10/31/08


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theresa:

1) Where do we find the "new body" scripture?

2) What happened to the "old" body?

3) Why did the "new body" have the old scars?
---jerry6593 on 10/31/08


It doesn't matter if some churches do not believe in an everlasting hell because hell IS ever lasting whether ones believes so or not. Don't miss salvation over a stupid argument against hell's enternity that would lead to an an absurd discussion of hell being akin to a length and thus temporary prison sentence.
Spiritual beings live forever preferably in God's presence. Hell is by definition the ultimate distance from God and therefore the ultimate punishment.
Matthew 18:8 folks, ETERNAL fire means ETERNAL fire!
---larry on 10/30/08


***
The main question is are you a sinner Rhonda? Now its your turn. Are you without sin? Please indulge us with your answer. I would be so happy to meet another sinless person...
****

Mark your question is in response to what?

Indulge me with purpose of your sarcastic "main question" and your analogies of me

Gods Word tells True Christians it is antichrist to claim one is not a sinner Mark ...so oh pretty please explain your question a little further ...because sweetie it is far removed from the topic of a place called hell you defend so righteously

since by your OWN postings everyone who doesn't believe in the antichrist hell is lost
---Rhonda on 10/30/08


Gina7 I have been listening to all of you all through the year. Lee has been kind enough to write every Scripture in context to all and He has been curtious enough to have a lot of control in doing so. I am sorry if I offend anyone from that denomination but it is obvious that the one thing that comes from all of you is a self-righteous attitude. "We do this and that and all of you don't.
---MarkV. 10/30/08
If Lee posted ideas that you disagreed with, you would perceive him as having an attitude as well. Just because you agree with what he says does not make him courteous and in context, and while you disagree with me would not make me uncourteous and out of context. Focus on the scriptures being presented, not the messenger.
---Gina7 on 10/30/08


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MarkV, I was not responding to you in that post, what I was doing was preaching to you. You must learn to rightly divide what people say and instead of acting in the place of Satan as the Accuser of the Brethren, you should act in love, realizing that the words are told to you to benefit you and the forum, and not to offend you. When you are in grave error, you need to be talked to directly. Repent of your false doctrine and of your accusation. I was not lying. I just will not read your posts but think about things and then post as I see fit, writing your name so that people identify who it is spreading false doctrine.
---frances008 on 10/30/08


Everyone, I admit that NOW I am responding, and have to to but this is not a response to MarkV. This is to the others. Don't you think it is clever that some people deliberately set up traps in which to try and catch out their brethren. Is this the way we should behave? Drawing people into error, and when they suddenly realize it and react against that situation, then you force them into a fight and when they say they won't play, force them to play and accuse them of lying when they do. And if they don't repsond then its 'Heads I win, Tails I win!' to them. Because no response means you are letting them win.
---frances008 on 10/30/08


Calhoon, God doesn't torture anyone, but He does allow those who reject His Son's sacrifice to go to the place of torment, which is hell. Why are you not bothered that Jesus Christ,(who was God manifest in the flesh and committed no sin died for all mankind to have the right to eternal life and a personal relationship with God), is rejected by sinful people who want to make a mockery of His great gift of salvation offered to all who choose to believe, receive and repent??? What about God? All you seem to be concerned with is the justice laid out for these horrendous deeds rebellious people commit instead of what they're doing against God.
---theresa on 10/30/08


Hebrews chapter 12, verse 1-2, "Wherefore seeing we are compassed about with so great cloud of witnesses, let us lay aside very weight and the sin that doth so easily beset us, and let us run with patience the race that is set before us, Looking unto Jesus, the author and finisher of our faith." We as Christians have the power to lay aside the sin that can easily beset us in this Christian race. True born again believers have the HOly Spirit living within, and can be overcomers! Romans chapter 8, verse 13 says "...through the Spirit mortify (kill) the deeds of the body.." Hebrews chap. 12, vs. 14 says "Follow peace with all men & holiness without which no man shall see the Lord."
---theresa on 10/30/08


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Samuel, You have given enough proof and the only one that has even mentioned that we are saved by grace through faith. And that if we say we are without sin, the Truth is not in us. I am with what you have stated now, for your words have no condemnation for anyone. We can love sin and not love Christ, or Love Christ and not love sin. I choose to Love Christ. That is the way we should behave. You have proven that you are different.
---MarkV. on 10/30/08


All have sinned and fallen short of the Glory of GOD. Romans 3.

1Jo 1:8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.

There is a difference between living in sin and running from sin. I run from sin. But still fall down.

1Jo 2:1 My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:
1Jo 3:4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.

Follow JESUS.
---Samuel on 10/30/08


Gina7 I have been listening to all of you all through the year. Lee has been kind enough to write every Scripture in context to all and He has been curtious enough to have a lot of control in doing so. I am sorry if I offend anyone from that denomination but it is obvious that the one thing that comes from all of you is a self-righteous attitude. "We do this and that and all of you don't. Lee has shown the state we are in Christ under the New Covenant. No one wants to accept that and continue to bring the law into Grace. The death of Christ on the Cross is been attack. His death not good enough to free us and give us eternal life. There isn't even a hell in your religion and yet the law comes out to condemn us to hell,.
---MarkV. on 10/30/08


Frances, I thought you walk in the light and all that stuff you talked about but as I can see you don't. "You just finished saying to me on another blog you would not answer me. And you lied. I trusted that you would not lie about such a small thing. And here you are lying. I know you could not help yourself, you just had to. That is what I am talking about sinning Frances, you cannot help yourself.
No one is without sin. No True Christian has been glorified yet. We all live in the flesh. The flesh is sinful. You just condemned me and here you are sinning. You proof my point very well.
---MarkV. on 10/30/08


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Gina7, you are dodging the question. Do you disobey God are not? Are you a sinner? I am not a Catholic priest and you don't have to confess whether you are sinless or not, but if you are going to judge others and their sins, you should show us how it is possible to live without sin in this flesh of ours. You speak about how Jesus covered your sins, and give us your great example of your walk with God, while that is ok for you but you are saying it is not ok for the others. Only you are covered of all your sins, and no one else is. Seems to me you want to show how self-righteous you are and how terrible everyone else is, just because you believe in Saturday Sabbath. Again, are you a sinner? Seems like a pretty simple question.
---MarkV. on 10/30/08


Teresa,
You are what you believe. If you believe your God is good and He tortures people for all time, that makes you a person that likes to torture people. Sad isnt it?
---calhoon on 10/30/08


There is a real hell waiting for those who think they are not sinners. They love what they do and don't feel a conviction from the Holy Spirit. The reason they don't feel a conviction of their sinning is because the Spirit is not present in them.
Those are the one's that will wake up in hell and wonder what they did wrong. How holey they thought they were. Never really knowing they needed Christ everyday and the Spirit to convict them everytime they sinned. But they were blind, they thought they never sinned only others did. Not them. What an awakening that will be.
---MarkV. on 10/30/08


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