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Grace With Works Salvation

One man's idea is that the delusion (or lie) is made up of the believe that "works" are necessary for salvation. He other futher states that the delusion has been with us since the very beginning, and continues to grow. What do you say to his idea?

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 ---Mima on 10/29/07
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"You do not need works for salvation, but after you are saved, God expects you to work.">>>>>>>For Him.
---catherine on 8/27/08


"What do you say to his idea?" It is a good a any, and accurate concerning the subject of 'delusions'.
However, from defining the term "Strong Delusion" in the language used, as referenced in 2Thes.2:11.
"The strong delusion" is an empowered, active and effective instrument of deception dispatched from the Father, placed and enabled as a fraud, an impostor, positioned to be able to mislead the faithless, absorbed by their external perceptions, through the working (effectual active operation) of Satan [as the operative] with all 'power' (ability [necessary for his deception]) and 'signs' (a mark to indicate [his authority]) and 'lying wonders' (as an attempt to deceive by his prodigy)."
---joseph on 8/25/08


"I think the delusion takes many forms but is really an action of the heart. An unwillingness to trust God thus the need to perfect self (indulge self) the need to be 'good' - ego."

That's partially right. Not trusting God is not doing what He asks us to do. Rationalizing our own will. Thus Eve distrusted God when she took the forbidden fruit. Those that rationalize away part of God's law are also distrusting God. They WANT to follow the world rather than His plain expressed will.
---robin8683 on 11/3/07


Andrea ll/l) So true!!:)
---jody on 11/3/07


I think the delusion takes many forms but is really an action of the heart. An unwillingness to trust God thus the need to perfect self (indulge self) the need to be 'good' - ego.
To trust Jesus is to admit you are completely incapable of doing anything worthy of your salvation. Thus you must throw yourself on the mercy of the court- Jesus.
Whatever the delusion of choice it like a potpourie of selfishness
---Andrea on 11/1/07




James 2 is a great passage of scripture for this discussion. You can trully tell those who is allowing Christ to live through them and who are not. Christ even told some ye are of your father the davil.... Who are you? Salvation is a free gift from God, to those who believe on Jesus Christ.
---jerry on 11/1/07


Well, salvation by works is definitely A delusion, whether or not THE delusion. Delusion HAS been with us since the fall, and was present with Lucifer since his fall. Didn't Lucifer exalt himself above God, as if what he was and did could possibly be better?
---christina on 10/30/07


Well the first lie was that man would not die if he disobeyed God.
Seems that this lie still is going around.
Law done away with... obedience has nothing to do with salvation... etc.
If Satan was cast out of heaven for disobedience, and Adam and Eve were cast out of Eden for disobedience... why do people still instist that they don't have to obey and can still go to heaven? Satan could really call God unjust then!
---robin8683 on 10/30/07


Salvation is a free gift and certainly cannot be earned.

But if you have faith you will have works. Best put by Jesus' brother in James 2:18 But someone may well say, "You have faith and I have works, show me your faith without the works, and I will show you my faith by my works."
---denna7667 on 10/29/07


To those who consider it as an idea is a matter of choice like Faith, but to those who believe it to be Gods mercy its a factJames2:14-22
---Emcee on 10/29/07




Salvation is a free gift unto all who desires it. Works alone can't get someone saved or take them to heaven. It take faith, cause without faith works is dead. It is true, God helps those whom help themsleves. Meaning that if you are willing to help yourself, then God is more likely to help you more.
---Rebecca_D on 10/29/07


Both O.T. and N.T. clearly say God judges us after we die by what we have done. Because we all sin, it's clear no one is acceptable to God without Christ's grace. Faith must be real. Real faith changes who we are and what we do. We deceive ourselves and mock Christ if we say we have been "born again" or "saved" yet our actions don't show our faith. Repentence is a process. Christ's arms are always outstretched. He wants to gather us under His wings, but so often we will not.
---missy on 10/29/07


Saved by grace THROUGH FAITH! Two errors we have to guard against.
1. that looking to our own works, we can bring ourselves into harmony with God.
2. that belief in Christ releases us from keeping the law of God.
NB: Obedience == discipleship! Instead of releasing us from obedience, FAITH makes us partakers of the grace of Christ, which enables us to render obedience
We do not earn salvation by obedience. It is a free gift to be received by faith which produces obedience as its fruit.P.
---Pierre on 10/29/07


#-1-My friend is saying that these verses in second Thessalonians 2:10-11, "And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish, because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved."

"And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:"
Are taking place now, and have been taking place since Adam and Eve.


---Mima on 10/29/07


#-2-.-- please give close attention to this phrase," because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved."
My reason for giving this belief, some credence to the fact that when witnessing many many people tell me they cannot be saved for what ever reason. This belief prevents them from believing that they might be saved. Exactly as the Scripture says.
---Mima on 10/29/07


Salvation is a free gift from God, however, the choice to reject that gift is manifest in the desire of some to refuse to do the will of the Father. If we who were freed from the bondage of sin, willingly choose to return to that bondage, then we have chosen to reject Jesus Christ - we cannot be a slave to Christ and a slave to sin. We cannot have two masters.
---lorra8574 on 10/29/07


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Mima)I am not sure as to what you are saying. Salvation is a fee gift givin by faith in Jesus Christ, period. Beyond that, works do follow a believer as they follow the leading of the Holy Spirit. As Christians, we do abound in good works but that is not our salvation it is because of our salvation.
---jody on 10/29/07


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