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Does this verse John 8:24, "I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins." Imply or mean that we believe that Jesus was the son of God sent by God that we will not die in our sins?

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 ---Mima on 11/9/07
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A born again follower of Christ will not die in their sin. If a person choses to turn from His first love (Christ) and join the world system without returning to Jesus, then he will die in His sin because he has knowingly recrucified Christ. He has chosen the pleasures of the world over God.
---jody on 12/6/07


Mark V-Overcomers do not return to their own vomit. True believes perservere by the power of Christ through the Holy Spirit. 2 Peter 20-22, is not speaking of true believers


Passage 2 Peter 2:20-22:
"If they have escaped the corruption of the world by knowing our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ and are again entangled in it and overcome, they are worse off at the end than they were at the beginning. "
Mark it is talking about true believers, nice try...
---Ruben on 12/6/07


Mark V-Many in the churches today attend and hear the Gospel many times, but that does not mean they are saved. It only means they would have been better off not even knowning anything about Christ.



Then that means you as well doesn't it....
---Ruben on 12/6/07


Ruben, they started to believe in Him when the Holy Spirit brought them to life. By grace they were saved through faith. Once they were born of God, they received faith to come to Christ. If God had not given them first life, they would still be dead. If God had not given them faith as a gift after they were reborn, they would not be able to believe. We believe in Christ because we are saved. Not the other way around.
---Mark_V. on 12/6/07


Overcomers do not return to their own vomit. True believes perservere by the power of Christ through the Holy Spirit. 2 Peter 20-22, is not speaking of true believers. Many in the churches today attend and hear the Gospel many times, but that does not mean they are saved. It only means they would have been better off not even knowning anything about Christ. False teachers were attacking the very same people and convincing them.
---Mark_V. on 12/5/07




#2. 2 Cor. 1:7-9 speaks of the power that sustains each born again child of God. There are those that would have you believe you are on your own standing there ready to be taken by Satan, and Christ is just watching you leave, without Him doing anything,(WRONG). ". So that you are not lacking in any spiritual gift, as you wait for the revealing of our Lord Jesus Christ, who will sustain you to the end, guiltless in the day of our Lord Jesus Christ.
---Mark_V. on 12/5/07


i think the problem is that, with out the HS you cannot live above sin. so these who say a little prayer and shake a preachers hand with out getting that overcoming power belive "i have to sin a little everyday" this leads to "since i have no control over my actions it doesnt matter what i do" if your saved and turn to trample on the cross of Christ and count the blood of the covenet as an unclean thing the Bible says you will be lost. judgement starts in the house of God.
---Kraus on 12/4/07


Mark V-Ruben, God is not waiting for "unbelievers" to seek Him. They cannot.


Really, then how did some of the "unbelievers" start to believe in him?
---Ruben on 12/4/07


no.I believe this means that,if you do not believe that Jesus Christ is God,Jehova,from the old testament, you will die in your sins.Because sin is bondage.Jesus said truth will make you free.If you have not the truth about Christ, you are in bondage to sin.
---donald on 12/4/07


That is correct. Your'll never go back
to eating bad apples, after you have eaten
on the good ones.
---Jack_fossett on 12/4/07




Robert
OSAS is just and excuse to sin.

Onthe contra,it is JUST TRURTING IN THE TEACHINGS OF OUR LORD AND SAVIOSR JESUS.
One question,what can a believer do to loose his salvation.

Please dont say die without confessing a sin,{I talking about believers}because the SIN DEBT HAS BEEN PAID IN FULL BY OUR LORD AND SAVOIOR JESUS CHRIST,FOR THE WHOLE WORLD.

By the deeds of the LAW THERE SHALL NO FLESH BE JUSTIFYED,sin is transgressing the law,over steping.
---lionel on 12/4/07


Ruben, God is not waiting for "unbelievers" to seek Him. They cannot. Romans 3:9-12, "What then? Are we Jews any better off? No, not at all, for I have already charged that "all men" both Jews and Greeks, are under the power of sin, as it is written, None is righteous, no, not one, no one understands, no one seeks God, all have turned aside, together they have gone wrong, no one does good, not even one"
---Mark_V. on 12/3/07


#2. Ruben:
Men left in their state are unable of themselves to repent, to believe the gospel, or to come to Christ unless God makes them able. Otherwise they cannot understand spiritual things. They have no power within themselves to change their own natures or to prepare themselves for salvation. You know why? John 8:44 tells us here where Jesus is speaking to the unbelieving Jews who want to kill Him, " You are of your father the devil
---Mark_V. on 12/3/07


#3. Ruben
"and your will is to do your father's desires" That is why. The lost have a different father and they are doing the desires of him. Many times the lost don't realize they are working for the devil. They just go on doing what they love, without Christ involve in their lives. Many might read the bible, go to church, but their nature has not change. The Spirit brings light to God's word. A person without the Spirit cannot understand
---Mark_V. on 12/3/07


#4. Ruben
2 Tim. 2:25,26 tells us that it takes for God to first grant the lost the ability to repent and come to know the truth. "God may perhaps grant that they will repent and come to know the truth, and they may escape from the snare of the devil, after being captured by him to do his will." As you can see this passage goes with John 8:44 and with Eph. 2:12. For all Scripture reconciles and speaks of the condition of man while lost.
---Mark_V. on 12/3/07


I don't believe in OSAS or Calvinism.
---lovable_linda on 12/3/07


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7)
The problem is too many fall into false doctrines and fall into bondage to sin again and they would be better off never having known Christ(That is Biblical ,you can find that in 2 Peter 2:20-22). Please read it.
---Matthew_from_LA on 12/3/07


jackie Jesus said we would know false prophets by their fruits(by what they do) and the same for those that follow Him. John was just discussing that further. John's words was, "He who does what is righteous is righteous as He is righteous" and "He does what is sinful is of the Devil."

Galations 5:19-21 attests to that.
---Matthew_from_LA on 12/3/07


2)
Galations 5:19-21

19Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these, Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,

20Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,

21Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.
---Matthew_from_LA on 12/3/07


3)
Galations is talking about a lifestyle. If we sin we must repent , but if instead we remain in the world and don't come back to the Father as the prodigal son did, we will be like the prodigal son who was dead and lost. The parable says that when he returned to the Father he became alive again. Implying he was alive once before. (Luke 15:24) ALso notice Hebrews 10.
---Matthew_from_LA on 12/3/07


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4)
KJV Hebrews 10:26
For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,

27But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.

NIV
"26If we deliberately keep on sinning after we have received the knowledge of the truth,"
---Matthew_from_LA on 12/3/07


5)
Notice, "if we deliberately keep on sinning." After having come to CHrist, if one sins on purpose, sinning without repentance, they will face God's wrath as an enemy of God. People here will tell you different, but I plead you to believe your BIble and not men.
---Matthew_from_LA on 12/3/07


6)
Also, beware, because as we near the end times, more and more preachers come out to be false. We are told before the end there would be a great falling away and people will reject sound doctrine.(2 Thessalonians 2:3)(2 Timothy 4:3) These passages aren't about unbelievers, but instead believers. As the years go by we see a bigger and bigger boom in people "coming to Christ."
---Matthew_from_LA on 12/3/07


If one is born-again sin can be conqured
One no longer wants the bad apple after
they taste the good one.
---Jack_fossett on 12/3/07


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We all sin (1 John1:8-10). 1 John2:29 says "everyone that doeth righteousness is born of Him". I'm not sure if John is saying that righteousness and faith in Christ brings about being "born again" or whether he means that if we are "born again" we will no longer do unrighteous things. Either way, I am still not always righteouss, so I still have some work to do either on being "born again" or being "righteous" or both.
---jackie on 12/3/07


" a man that puts his hand to the plow and looks back is not fit for the kingdom of God."
---David on 12/2/07


Learn from the Parable of the Sower.
---Steveng on 12/1/07


"If the righteous scarcely be saved, where will the ungodly and sinner appear?

Seek your salvation with fear and trembling.
OSAS is an excuse to continue in sin. Hebrews clearly exposes OSAS as a lie. You cannot partake of the Lord's table and the devil's table.
---Robert on 12/1/07


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Ruben

When does a beliver become a child of God ?
Is it when he believe,repent.
After isn't he born again an receives eternal life.
What does sealed by the holy spirit mean.
What does abide forever mean.
What does,never parish mean.
What does never leave you mean.
What does be with you always mean.
THESE OR SOME PROMISES OF JESUS.
Another thing we repent only once,after we become a child of God we are told to confess our sins,and he{GOD}is faitful and just forgive.
---LIONEL on 11/30/07


Mark V-Ruben, John 6:66 is in response to the context of the whole message of Jesus. v. 64, tells us, "But there are some of you who do not believe" Doesn't that mean there was unbelievers among the disciples?


No it doesn't, it reads "From this time "MANY OF HIS DICIPLES" turned back and no longer followed him. " It does not say among the disciples....
---Ruben on 11/30/07


(John 15:3-10): Salvation is like a river that FLOWS, as long as man continues to yield to God's cleansing Word. Leave the safety of the Word, leave LIFE. Jesus said many are called, but few are chosen, many of Christians will hear, Depart from me ye workers of iniquity/sin one day, even if they used to live for the Lord, it wont matter if they fall into deceit and start loving deceit more than the Word of God, hardening their own heart, it will be as if God never even knew them.
---Mrs._Morgan on 11/30/07


Mark V-#2. Jesus said, "Therefore I have said to you that no one can come to Me unless it has been granted to him by My Fathere." Jesus tells them they cannot come to Him



Yet he said that his Father is waiting for men to seek him "He who comes to me"(v35)"Everyone who looks to the Son and believes in him shall have Eternal Life"(v40)"Everyone who listens to the Father and learns from him comes to him"(v45)
---Ruben on 11/30/07


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Mima,

"Yes", belief that Christ is the Son of God is one evidence that one has been born again.

In John 8:24 Christ was speaking to some non-elect Jews, who he declared to be hell bound.

Bless you all,
---trey on 11/30/07


Mark V- And what did most of them do? They walked with Him no more.


They did not leave because they did not believe in him, they left because "On hearing it, many of his disciples said, "This is a hard teaching. Who can accept it?" (V60) And what was the hard teaching "Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day. For my flesh is real food and my blood is real drink."(v54-55)
---Ruben on 11/30/07


Mark V-#3. It is important Ruben that for your soul's sake, you read the whole context. Otherwise you are putting your own meaning into God's word.



Then you need to practice what you preach for your own soul! "Jesus said to them, "I tell you the truth, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you have no life in you. Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day"(V53-54)
---Ruben on 11/30/07


(2.) (Eph. 5:15-21)(2 Peter 2:20-22)(Romans 11:21,22): If one continues to harden their heart toward God/Grace, God will hardened their heart like Pharaoh, turning them over to a reprobate mind, and blaspheming the Holy Ghost will occur, God said so. God's plan for man: accept His gift of righteousness/truth, then abide in it by yielding to the Holy Spirit/the Word, don't carelessly hardened one's own heart toward God(James 1:21,22)(James 2:18-20). Yes, salvation/grace can be rejected/neglected.
---Mrs._Morgan on 11/30/07


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1 Peter 3:10(NIV)
For,
"Whoever would love life
and see good days
must keep his tongue from evil
and his lips from deceitful speech.
11He must turn from evil and do good,
he must seek peace and pursue it.
12For the eyes of the Lord are on the righteous
and his ears are attentive to their prayer,
but the face of the Lord is against those who do evil."
---Matthew_from_LA on 11/30/07


2)
1 Peter 3:10(NIV)
For,
"Whoever would love life
and see good days
must keep his tongue from evil
and his lips from deceitful speech.
11He must turn from evil and do good,
he must seek peace and pursue it.
12For the eyes of the Lord are on the righteous
and his ears are attentive to their prayer,
but the face of the Lord is against those who do evil."
---Matthew_from_LA on 11/30/07


3)

Galations 5
19Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these, Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,

20Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,

21Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.
---Matthew_from_LA on 11/30/07


Matthew 5:20
For I say unto you, that except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no wise enter into the kingdom of heaven.
---Cindy on 11/30/07


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1 Corinthians 6:9 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers,.. shall inherit the kingdom of God.

Galatians 5:19 Works of the flesh .. Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,
20 Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,
21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.
---Cindy on 11/30/07


#2. Jesus said, "Therefore I have said to you that no one can come to Me unless it has been granted to him by My Fathere." In response to those who He knew didn't believe, Jesus tells them they cannot come to Him. And what did most of them do? They walked with Him no more. They didn't belong to Him, they were imposters who didn't believe. Only one of the imposters stayed, Juda's, who later would betray Him.
---Mark_V. on 11/30/07


#3. It is important Ruben that for your soul's sake, you read the whole context. Otherwise you are putting your own meaning into God's word.
---Mark_V. on 11/30/07


We are redeemed..We will not lose our fellowship. Jesus set us free from sin, we have been made righteous.
---duane on 11/30/07


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Ruben, John 6:66 is in response to the context of the whole message of Jesus. v. 64, tells us, "But there are some of you who do not believe" Doesn't that mean there was unbelievers among the disciples? Jesus said there was, "Jesus knew who they were, "Jesus knew from the beginning who they were who did not believe" He didn't mention them by name but He not only knew the imposters among Him but also the one who would betray Him.
---Mark_V. on 11/30/07


Lionel-When God children sin the fellowship is broken,but he is still our father,when we confess our sin the felllowship is restored


But when God the Father says " you are DEAD in his eyes, you no longer have fellowship with him, it wasn't until he repented was he "ALIVE" again..OSAS I do not think so!
---Ruben on 11/29/07


Trey- The prodigal son, was still his father's child when he went out into the world, but he failed to receive the blessings of his father. When he repented, the blessings were restored


He had more than a blessing, he had a inheritance and what is the Father inheritance....Eternal Life..And what happens when you no longer have the inheritance, " You are DEAD"
---Ruben on 11/29/07


Lionel-Ruben

The father of that prodical,said my son was dead{spirital}{seperated from the father}


When God the Father says to you, "My son was Dead",(Spirital) then how is it you are saved? The Son(Us) repented and we became alive again..The Son ask for his inheritance, which is Eternal Life, God the Father granted his wish..About the one sheep he would go and find, we have to go to him and repent from our sins.
---Ruben on 11/29/07


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Trey- The Son ask for his inheritance, which was his Eternal life..The Father(God) said " His Son is Dead" How can you still be his Son, when you turn your back on the Father(God)What did the Father said when his Son return back to him, did he say here is my Son who turn from me and lived a sinful life, he is my son still and he never lost his salvation, of course not. he said "For this is my son who was DEAD"
---Ruben on 11/29/07


trey-OSAS = John 10:29 My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all, and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand



But like the Podigal Son, "YOU" can turn your back from him and walk away....As well as the disciples did in John 6:66
---Ruben on 11/29/07


Ruben
There is fellowship{talking withGod}and relationship{children of God}
When we receive Jesus as savior we are born again and become children of God.
When God children sin the fellowship is broken,but he is still our father,when we confess our sin the felllowship is restored.

When the prodical son was in the far country he was still his fathers son,the fellowship was broken.When he confesed to his father,the fellowship restored.

continue........
---LIONEL on 11/28/07


Lionel, - Amen.

Ruben, not that Lionel needs my help, but it is my belief concerning the prodigal son(Luke 15:42) that this parable is speaking of how God deals with us here on earth. The prodigal son, was still his father's child when he went out into the world, but he failed to receive the blessings of his father. When he repented, the blessings were restored.

OSAS = John 10:29 My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all, and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.
---trey on 11/28/07


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Ruben

The father of that prodical,said my son was dead{spirital}{seperated from the father}and is alive was lost,and is found.

The prodical even in the far country was still the fathers son,but did not have fellowship with his father.

Jesus said if one of the 100 sheep were lost he would leave the 99 and find the one lost.

Jesus said that his sheep will NEVER NEVER PARISH.
---lionel on 11/28/07


#2. Rebirth is the job of the Holy Spirit in the life of those who are dead spiritually and the Spirit brings life to their spirit. Reborn. Regeneration. All others remain the same and continue dead, unless the Spirit does a supernatural change. OSAS is the assurance of those who are brought to life by the Spirit, and kept "by the power of God" when they die a physical death, they will remain alive to Christ forever spiritually.
---Mark_V. on 11/28/07


Die in your sins means, "a spiritual death" not physical death. All people after Adam are alive physically, but dead spiritually to all things of God. They are in a fallen state. Dead. Not a little, not almost, completely dead. As the prodigal son was. When Jesus said, "Ye shall die in your sins" that meant if you don't have faith in Jesus Christ, "You will die in your sins." All those who now have faith in Christ is because they are now alive to Christ.
---Mark_V. on 11/28/07


Emcee, you said, "Most Christians do not understand that Christ gave His life in obedience to His Father to open the gates of heaven which were close" All persons who are born again are called Christain. They believe by faith in Jesus Christ, who died on the Cross so that we could have life eternal. He would not be a Christian if he didn't believe that. Not some Christians, but all Christians. If they don't believe that, they are not born again. Not Christain.
---Mark_V. on 11/28/07


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Lionel-Jesus said my sheep hear my voice they follow me I give unto them eternal LIFE they shall never PERISH.DO YOU ACCEPT WHEN JESUS SAY NEVER,OR DID HE REALY MEAN IT.



Lionel can you explain the Podigal Son, Luke 15:24 "For this son of mine was dead and is "alive again," he was lost and is found.' "..How can you be "Alive" and then "Dead" and then be "Alive again"..Does this sound like OSAS?
---Ruben on 11/27/07


Mark V:: I do not oppose Mima But his beliefs of OSAS Presumption.Most Christians do not understand,that Christ, gave His life,in obedience to His Father, to open the gates of Heaven which was closed, by SIN of Mankind.The words "Follow me "Be perfect as your heavenly Father" Reverberate through the Hills & halls of Christendom.Accept your God as He created you to HIS likeness without Sin,Repent if you want to see those pearly Gates.Do not "PRESUME"
---Emcee on 11/27/07


Emcee, I don't see why you would oppose Mima, since the Catholic church "believes" (and you say believe is not important) in baptism as the cause of salvation. In baptism there is no repentance. No change of heart. Babies don't know anything. They could care less what anyone say's other then they want there milk. That is it. Acually they are selfish. They are thinking of what they want.
---Mark_V. on 11/27/07


#2. Repentance means a change of attituded toward sin that enables a person to trust Christ as Savior. Confession, you can confess your sins and do it again and again since you can confess every saturday. So in confession you can beat your wife again and again, if that was your nature. Nothing ever changes.
---Mark_V. on 11/27/07


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#2. Faith is a gift of God that is given to all who are born again. True rebirth. It enable man to believe in Christ and is given as a gift. There is no sending faith back, it just comes with rebirth. The reason the bible say's it is a gift is because you did not earn it, or worked for it. It comes by Grace.
---Mark_V. on 11/27/07


Emcee, I guess you forgot to read the whole post of George where he said, "and you turn away from living to satisty your own disires and now wish to do as the Holy Spirit leads you into all things" That is called repentance Emcee. Not found in the Catholic church. There you can confess every Saturday and do the same things during the week. No repentance just confession.
---Mark_V. on 11/27/07


George, may I ask you, what sins are you talking about that Christ will save us from?
---jana on 11/27/07


Jesus said my sheep hear my voice they follow me I give unto them eternal LIFE they shall never PERISH.DO YOU ACCEPT WHEN JESUS SAY NEVER,OR DID HE REALY MEAN IT.
john 14:16 the holy spirit abide forever,or did he realy mean it.If abide realy mean abide,then when you loose your salvation,the Holy Spirit is lost withyou REMBER ABIDE FOREVER ever
---lionel on 11/27/07


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To all the blogers who believe SALVATION IS NOT SURE.

You are save by grace through FAITH IN JESUS.

It is not of YOURSELF it is a GIFT OF GOD for not doing nothing but trusting God's word.

When you make yourself a helper with God by thinking, you doing something keeps you saved.You dishonor the finish work of Jesus.

One try not to sin because he is afread of looseing his salvation,its because he want to please God.
---lionel on 11/27/07


You can fall from grace and you can backslide. However the bible says God is married to the backslider, he's waiting for him to repent and return back to him.
---trell on 11/26/07


Mima::"Faith is a gift from God"When you get a gift it depends how you use or abuse it so dont be too sure that the giver will be happy if you abuse it.Think of that Mima all you who believe salvation by belief.Did Jesus teach by belief while on this earth.Did He not go healing the sick as well.alleviating the pain of the poor
and suffering.
---Emcee on 11/26/07


---George I am impressed with your answer. It is clear, is on target, is self explanatory, and after a lifetime of study I believe it is correct!!
---Mima on 11/26/07


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George ::Therefore, from this day forward you are at liberty to Hit your wife and children, swear, Get drunk,lie, cheat, speak ill of your neighbour,and you shall be forgiven what becomes of Gods Word "Thy WILL be done on earth as it is in Heaven"Are sins Gods word? OSAS is False.
---Emcee on 11/26/07


It means exactly that. If you believe in your heart that God has raised Jesus from the dead and sits at the right hand of the Father forever making intercession for us and you have turned away from living to satisfy you own desires and now wish to do as the Holy Spirit leads you into all good things, yes you are saved from you wrong doings you did yesterday, tommorow and from this day forward, All sins are forgiven.
---George on 11/26/07


We are saved by grace, through faith, and not of our works, lest any man should boast. Ephesians 2:8,9
Faith without works is dead. James 2:20
Is this a contradiction of the word? Definitely not. We enter God's kingdom by God's grace and our belief in Jesus Christ. We start a "race" at that point (Hebrews 12:1) and that is why we have God's Word...to give us instruction on how to live.
---danna9955 on 11/25/07


There is a problem when people believe that just because they said the sinner's prayer once, that they can live any way they want and they're heavenbound. That's not the truth. One can lose their salvation if they persist on living in sin. Look up the word backsliding and you will find it throughout the bible. Only God knows that point at which the relationship between Him and the person is gone, and I believe He gives many warning signs. Read John 15:1-6
---danna9955 on 11/25/07


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(Ezekiel 18:20) The soul that sinneth, it shall die.

(Hebrews 10:26) For if we sin willfully after that we have recieved the knowledge of the truth, there remainth no more sacrifice for sins.
---Mr._Graham on 11/25/07


Once saved always saved?This is unbiblical! Check out this. If i were unsaved and i see you who are a backsliden christian sinning without regard I would probably say whats the use.Misrepresenting the blood that was shed is in my opinion very close to blasphemy. Go ahead and take the chance Hell aint so bad.
---monti on 11/25/07


When Jesus died on the cross, he said,"It is finished" He finished the work of salvation and we have no part in it. We accept what Jesus did. We don't have to help him to keep us saved, he did it all. We are to live a holy life because he saved us, not to keep ourselves saved. No mater how hard I try, I can't be holy enough to keep myself saved. I trust in the shed blood of Christ to do that. He who says he has no sin, makes God a liar. He who is without sin, cast the first stone.
---Pastor_Herb on 11/24/07


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