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Satan Is Our Scapegoat

Adventists believe that the scapegoat in Leviticus typifies Satan. The truth is that Jesus became our scapegoat on the cross. He bore the blame for sins he did not commit. Any comments?

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Matthew 25:41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:

So hell was not prepared for any human being. Only satanand his angels were supposed to burnin the lake of fire.
And they were to burn for thiers sin,and thier responsibility in tempting of man.

While Satan was to burn for his role in sin, Christ was to die for our sins.

That is what you see with these two goats.


Jude 1:6 And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day.
---francis on 4/27/10


I am agree with Markv, the devil is not the scapegoat.

it just seems to me that if you equate him with the scapegoat, it is like saying "The devil made me do it" when you sin.
And we all know that he can't make you do anything.
He can tempt you BUT you are the one that does the sinning not him.
So, to me, the scape goat represents the sinner that gets cast out because he is not washed clean.
---miche3754 on 4/26/10


While I belive the doctrine of the Scapegoat being representive of Satan. It is not an important must believe doctrine to be save or to be lost.

Belive on the LORD JESUS CHRIST is the basis for following GOD. JESUS CHRIST has to be the center of all doctrines and the key to their understanding.
---Samuel on 4/26/10


MarkV, these are my verses.

To cover their shame, Adam and Eve made underwear made of fig leaves. Knowing that man was not capable of covering their own sin, God made clothes for them made of animal skin. What happens when skin is shed from a live animal? Blood has to be shed. God knew this "cover" was temporary. He had already forecast the permanent covering in a few verses before. Adam and Eve had to move East of Eden (in the wilderness) with their sinful nature. There is no verse here saying where the Serpent went. However, sin seems to be sent away from God a lot in the Bible.
---aka_joseph on 4/26/10


Francis, I still disagree with you but that is ok. What I did not see was any passages that seem to indicate where goats or scapegoats refer to Satan. You say there is but don't even give one.
---MarkV. on 4/25/10




MarkV,

I want you to know the passages that you presented are quite convincing. So, are the ones that were presented by francis and miche. types and shadows are just that to us. However, they are perfected in the the Son, where someday we will know the whole story.

Until the Day of the Lord, we are free to Ask, Seek, and Knock (ASK).Blessed are those who truly try to understand what another is saying.

As far as Scriptures, Heb 9-10 talk a lot of blood remission for sin. However, the writer points out that no ceremony of any kind will suffice . Otherwise, they would not have had to do this yearly. Only the blood remission of Christ completes our salvation and sanctification.
---aka_joseph on 4/25/10


MarkV: "The goat that was send [sic] into the wilderness in Leviticus was symbolic of a future One who was going to die for our sins was in the future." You are the one asking for scripture, and none is given to support your position.

Lev 16:8,9 shows the scapegoat in contradistinction to the LORD'S goat. It is the LORD's goat that is killed for a sin offering, thus typifying Christ to come. The scapegoat is forcibly removed to the wilderness (uninhabited region), and thus can't represent Christ.
---jerry6593 on 4/25/10


When animals are used as types along with the sanctuary, to be a figure of christ they must shed bllod.

There are other scriptures in the bible which supportthe scapegoat as satan.

In revealtion for example: satan, the beat, false prophet are cast into thefire ALIVE.

In genesis, there is the duality of the heel bring bruised, and the head being crushed as christ and satan are contrasted.

and there are other passages to support that this scapegoat is satan.

What most poeple are missing is that before the scapegoat is addressed, the sin of israel has already been cleaned and removed, or atoned for by God.
---francis on 4/24/10


Part 2: Types are similar to symbols and can even be considered a special kind of symbol. However there are two differenting characteristics. First symbols serve as signs of something they represent, without necessarly being similar in any respect, whereas Types resemble in one or more ways the things they prefigure. Types are practices that prefigure later salvation events are found all through Scripture. (Laviticus 16:10, 17:11, 1 Peter 1:19,.
---Mark_V. on 4/24/10


Everyone is giving their opinions with no Scripture to even indicate what the context of Leviticus was about. Everyone talks about goats and Satan, when the goat was never mentioned by anyone in scripture that sins were going to be put on him, What was happening was symbolic of the future sacrifice of Christ. That is all. Why make so many stories and all kinds of presumptions when they are not needed. The goat that was send into the wilderness in Leviticus was symbolic of a future One who was going to die for our sins was in the future. The one goat killed was for that moment in time. Nothing more there then what the Context suggest. Everything else just brings arguments for nothing.
---MarkV. on 4/23/10




Satan will get his own punishement.
The sinner will be sent into the wilderness(cast into outer darkness, seperated from God).
So, the scapegoat is the sinner(s) NOT satan.
---miche3754 on 4/23/10

An what of satan? does he not have a day of judgment coming to him?
---francis on 4/23/10

I never said Satan would not get his punishment. Just that he is not the scapegoat.

I believe Revelations describes Satan's punishment very well. Sinner's are cast out but Satan's punishment will be far worse than any sinner's will ever be.
---miche3754 on 4/23/10


Lev 16:8-26, R.V., "the goat for Azazel"

At a later period a modification of the law of Moses was introduced by the Jews. "The goat was conducted to a mountain named Tzuk. Judean desert was supposed to commence, and the man in whose charge the goat ..while setting him free, was instructed to push the unhappy beast down the slope of the mountain side, which was to insure the death of the goat. The reason of this barbarous custom was that on one occasion the scapegoat returned to Jerusalem after being set free, which was considered such an evil omen that its recurrence was prevented for the future by the death of the goat"

Easton, M. G. "Scapegoat," Easton's Bible Dictionary. Blue Letter Bible. 1897.
---Samuel on 4/23/10


Jesus is not an scapegoat! He is the correct doorway into eternity. Our pride,selffishness & walking away from God is our scapegoat. Heading to the world & it's matieralistic things are our scapegoat.
i donot know about the Adventists so i do not have a comment, but I do know Jesus is not the escape. He is the answer.
---candice on 4/23/10


Satan will get his own punishement.
The sinner will be sent into the wilderness(cast into outer darkness, seperated from God).
So, the scapegoat is the sinner(s) NOT satan.
---miche3754 on 4/23/10

An what of satan? does he not have a day of judgment coming to him?
---francis on 4/23/10


Francis,

It represents the sinner, NOT satan.

Look at the story of Jesus and Barabbas.

That is exactly what happened with the scapegoat.

The innocent was sacrificed while the sinner was set free.


You are free to believe that satan is the scapegoat if you want. I am telling you what I have read and seen that is it.
Satan will get his own punishement.
The sinner will be sent into the wilderness(cast into outer darkness, seperated from God).
So, the scapegoat is the sinner(s) NOT satan.
---miche3754 on 4/23/10


Like Jesus sacrificing himself for us (even though he had no sin) and God freeing the scapegoat who had sin (sinners are set free)?
That is what I see.
---miche3754 on 4/23/10



Look again, the scapegoat is not really set free. It is sent to the winderness to make an atonement WITH Jesus.

Leviticus 16:10 But the goat, on which the lot fell to be the scapegoat, shall be presented alive before the LORD, to make an atonement with him, [and] to let him go for a scapegoat into the wilderness.

2 Peter 2:4 For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast [them] down to hell, and delivered [them] into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment,
---francis on 4/23/10


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It is okay, Markv. Given our history, that was why I thought you were antagonizing me.

I agree with you about the goats.

Do you think that the scapegoat is satan?
I know I don't.
I see scripture telling me that Aaron placed the sins of Israel upon the scapegoat and set it free in the wilderness.

Doesn't that seem like God showing his forgiveness for sins by sacrificing one Goat and setting free the other goat?
Like Jesus sacrificing himself for us (even though he had no sin) and God freeing the scapegoat who had sin (sinners are set free)?
That is what I see.
---miche3754 on 4/23/10


Hello MarkV>>>How are you doing? After reading your blog, I looked up the word goat. Goats were often sacrificed in the worship system of Ancient Israel. On the day of atonement the Israelites used two goats, one was sacrificed, and the other was sent into the wilderness,symbolically bearing the sins of the people [Lev. 16:10]. Thank you for your feedback. Appreciate it. Thanks again. God bless.
---catherine on 4/22/10


This symbolism pictures not only Christ's death for our sins in the first goat, but also His bearing away the sins of the world in the second goat.
---catherine on 4/22/10

You cannot have remission of sins without the shedding of blood.
the ONLY way that christ could bear away our sins, is by DEATH.

Luke 22:42 Saying, Father, if thou be willing, remove this cup from me: nevertheless not my will, but thine, be done.

Hebrews 9:22 And almost all things are by the law purged with blood, and without shedding of blood is no remission.
---francis on 4/22/10


Catherine, that was exactly my point. Very good explanation from beginnig to end. Very good sister. Another thing why it was symbolic is because Jesus was a Lamb, not a goat. The Lamb of God who takes away the sins of the world.
The one goat send out to the wilderness symbolically represented the future sacrifice. Peace sister, hope that Francis understands the difference between the two context.
---MarkV. on 4/22/10


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Mark I do understand what you are saying. But as a substitute the goat must die, because the wages of sin is death, and christ took our death.

The reason why the scapegoat cannot represent a sacrifice or substitute for christ is because

(A) It is not killed, and does not die.
very important: Hebrews 9:22 without
shedding of blood is no remission of
sin.

(B) The other goat is called the Lord's goat
If both goats represented a sacrifice
for sin, both would be called the
Lord's Goat

(C) The scapegoat is dealt with AFTER the
sacrifice for sin has been made on the
day of atonement.
---francis on 4/22/10


The scapegoat that you mentioned is not the devil! Before Jesus came God's people used bulls and goats for their atonement, for sin offering [once a year]. Note: [atonement was not to be sacrified to God only a symbol] Note again: In those sacrifices there were a reminder of sins year by year. And it was impossible for the blood of bulls and goats to take away sins......This symbolism pictures not only Christ's death for our sins in the first goat, but also His bearing away the sins of the world in the second goat. Although, the scapegoat is not mentioned by name in the N.T. Hebrew 10:3-17 contrasts Sanctification through the sacrifice of Christ with the bulls and goats which can never take away sins....
---catherine on 4/22/10


Miche, I was not antagonizing you as you put it. When I said argument I didn't mean you were arguing mad. It only means a rebuttle to the point. A discussion. Don't take it so personal.
Since you explain yourself with your answer now, everything you said was very true.
You are correct in your answer, there was only two goats. I believed you were arguing that the scapegoat was the one that got killed. So I answered for that, and the reason I said you wrote it yourself on verse 10. I didn't know when you said two goats you were answering to how many goats whether 3, to my answer to Aka. Sorry.
---MarkV. on 4/22/10


Francis, Leviticus context is speaking about animal Sacrifices not the actual Sacrifice. The substitutionary of goats is the context of Leviticus.
Isaiah 53:10 is speaking of the real Sacrifice found in Jesus for the atonement for the sins of those who believe in Christ. Sufficient for all mankind. This are two complete examples, not the same one.
Isaiah discribes a future event that did take place when Christ died on the Cross.
The Prophet Isaiah predicted the whole event many hundreds of years before the arrival of Christ.
---MarkV. on 4/22/10


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I was not arguing, markv. I only addressed where you asked how many goats there were, that is it. Is there a reason why you are antagonizing me right now? Did I say something to offend? I thought we were having a discussion about who the scape goat is.
---miche3754 on 4/22/10


this act was more than a symbolic gesture, it was a picture of the ultimate 'substitutionary atonement" fulfilled by the Lord Jesus Christ (Isa. 53:5,6, 10:12).
---MarkV. on 4/22/10

Usually about 90+% of the time, you have great posts. On this one you are failing to see just one thing.


Isaiah 53:10 Yet it pleased the LORD to bruise him, he hath put [him] to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an OFFERING FOR SIN, he shall see [his] seed, he shall prolong [his] days, and the pleasure of the LORD shall prosper in his hand.

The scapegoat is not used as an offering for sin, only the Lord's goat is used at such.

1 Corinthians 15:3....Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures,
---francis on 4/22/10


MarkV,

I did read Leviticus 16:20-22 and the other verses. They do support your premise. However, there is verses Leviticus 16:1-19.

In my limited understanding, there was a ram, a young bull, and two goats. I am so thankful that God does not require that stuff of me. My house would have been in trouble.

Honestly, I cannot decipher all that stuff, and I have three kids (children not goats) sleeping upstairs. They need me to figure out how to be a father and mother in a 24 hour period everyday, and not the 16th Chapter of Leviticus. Thank God that Jesus shed His Blood for my sins and became the propitiation for our sins.
---aka_joseph on 4/21/10


Miche, what is your argument with me? You yourself said what I said the only thing I did was read ahead and put down the passages. You put down the same thing as to who was the Scapegoat, in verse 10:
"10"But the goat on which the lot for the scapegoat fell shall be presented alive before the LORD, to make atonement upon it, to send it into the wilderness as the scapegoat."
For an argument you need to prove that verses Leviticus 16:19-23 are false. You have not done that.
vv.21,22 this act was more then a symbolic gesture, it was a picture of the ultimate 'substitutionary atonement" fulfilled by the Lord Jesus Christ (Isa. 53:5,6, 10:12).
---MarkV. on 4/22/10


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He had 2 goats, Mark, according to scripture.
7"He shall take the two goats and present them before the LORD at the doorway of the tent of meeting.
8"Aaron shall cast lots for the two goats, one lot for the LORD and the other lot for the scapegoat.
9"Then Aaron shall offer the goat on which the lot for the LORD fell, and make it a sin offering.
10"But the goat on which the lot for the scapegoat fell shall be presented alive before the LORD, to make atonement upon it, to send it into the wilderness as the scapegoat.
Jesus is our passover- sin offering.
Note when Pilate asked who to release, it was Passover.John 18:28-40
---miche3754 on 4/21/10


Aka, once you read the passages I gave you, then what was Aaron doing to the live goat? How many goats did he have? Three? One was already killed and the blood was sprinkled some of the blood of the bull and some of the blood of the goat with his fingers seven times cleanse it and consecrate it from the uncleanness of the children of Israel. And when he had done that he put hands on the life goat that was later send to the wilderness. He confess over it all the iniquities and all transgressions concerning all the sins putting them on the head of the life goat.
Is this another ritual? The scapegoat was the the one that escape been killed and was send to the wilderness or else he was not the one that escaped.
---MarkV. on 4/21/10


You must have missed those words.
---MarkV. on 4/20/10


No i did not miss it. I did not get confused by the word SCAPEGOAT.

from genesi to revelation, all sins are remitted by shedding of blood.
From genesis to revelation Satan has a day of reconing coming to him.

he will bruise the heal of the Mesiah, but his head shall be crushed for his role in tempting Adam and Eve and you and Me.

The scapegoat (Satan) Has to pay for his sins in heaven, as well as the sins of the people whom he tempted. So God prepared Hell for the devel and his angel.
---francis on 4/21/10


"You are being taught atonement WITHOUT the shedding of blood."
francis on 4/20/10
Frances you win the desired BINGO award. You are totally correct in your statement. What are people being taught?
This is why I said, "People come here and post that they are Saved. They claim to be Christians. Then, they don't even know if Jesus was the Sacrifice or the Scapegoat.
Then we wonder why this nation is in the shape it is."
---Elder on 4/21/10


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Thank you joseph but I can't take credit for something I just learned myself.

Our church overseer taught about it the other week.
Talk about a revelation. God spoke mighty through him!
But I understand how we can get the scapegoat confused. Especially since our definition of a scapegoat is someone takes the fall for others.
But that is not how the bible describes a scapegoat really.

Jesus is actually the sacrificial lamb. The lamb slain before the foundation of the world for all mankind's sin.
AMEN!!
---miche3754 on 4/21/10


MarkV, I have to disagree with you on this.

Miche, great parallel!
---aka_joseph on 4/20/10


Francis, you must have forgotten to read the whole context of Levitus 16:20,21, because it speaks completely opposite of what you say. Read it again Francis. "And when he has made an end of atoning for the Holy Place, the tabernacle of meeting, and the altar, (that is after v,19 where he sprinkled some of the blood of the one killed he is to bring) the live goat. Aaron shall lay both his hands on the head of the live goat, confess over it all the iniquities of the children of Israel, and all their transgressions, concerning all their sins, putting them on the head of the goat, and shall send it away into the wilderness"
You must have missed those words.
---MarkV. on 4/20/10


First this is not a important matter. Scholars not just SDA but Baptist and other denominations have stated the Scapegoat (aza'zel)1) entire removal, scapegoat

a) refers to the goat used for sacrifice for the sins of the people

b) meaning dubious
From the Strongs.

Represents Satan. The Bible tells not that the animals chosen as the scapegoat does not shed it's blood but is sent away into the wilderness. A point made about Satan in Revelations.
---Samuelbb7 on 4/20/10


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Story of Jesus and Barabbas

Barabbas = Scapegoat- full of sin yet he was freed(just like the scapegoat in Leviticus)

Jesus = sacrifice for SIN - totally sinless and sacrificed for sin.

See Matthew 27 where Pontius Pilate asks who they choose to be killed and who they wanted set free.
---miche3754 on 4/20/10


This goat (scapegoat) is the future sacrificial Lamb who was carrying the sins of the whole world. That is why the Old Testament saints looked forward to Christ and His atonement.
---MarkV. on 4/20/10

Dead wrong.
the goat is NOT sacrificed, that is so very important.
The OT saints sacrificed, killed an animal, shed it's blood and by this they looked forward to the Lamb of God who would take away the sins of the world

Not a lamb that would be let into the wilderness, but a lamb that would shed blood for thier sins.

If this scapegoat is the future sacrificial lamb, why is not NEVER sacrifiuced?
---francis on 4/20/10


Francis Part 2:
confess over it all the iniquities of the children of Israel, and all their transgressions, concerning all their sins, putting them on the head of the goat, and shall send it away into the wilderness by the hand of a suitable man. The goat shall bear on itself all their iniquities to an uninhabited land, and he shall release the goat in the wilderness"
This goat (scapegoat) is the future sacrificial Lamb who was carrying the sins of the whole world. That is why the Old Testament saints looked forward to Christ and His atonement.
---MarkV. on 4/20/10


"The scapegoat" is the True Lamb of God who takes the sins of the world.
---MarkV. on 4/20/10

If anyone thinks that the scapegoat is the TRUE LAMB OF GOD then he is misstaken. Without the shedding of blood, there is no remission for sins.

The text clearly says ONE goat for the Lord's and the other the scapegoat.
Both goats are not for the lord.

Blood must be shed to take sins away. There is no other way. That is a fundermental truth that cannot be changed. Our sins can only be atoned for by the shedding of blood.

First the atonement is made with THE LORD'S Goat for OUR SINS, then after the atonement is made, and all our sins are wiped away, then and only then is the scapegoat dealt with.
---francis on 4/20/10


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Here Aaron had made the atoning for the Holy Place, and now he lay both his hands on the head of the life goat,
---MarkV. on 4/20/10

Compare these verses:

Leviticus 16:9 And Aaron shall bring the goat upon which the LORD'S lot fell, and offer him for a sin offering.

Leviticus 16:10 But the goat, on which the lot fell to be the scapegoat, shall be presented alive before the LORD, to make an atonement WITH him, and to let him go for a scapegoat into the wilderness.


The Lord's goat is used to make a sacrifice for OUR SINS. After that, the scapegoatis taken into the wilderness where the LORD makes an atonement WITH him.
meaning: God will deal with satan for satans deeds.
---francis on 4/20/10


This blog should serve as a wake up call to many christians.

If based on this text you have been taught that there is another way of remission of sins apart for the shedding of blood, then this blog MUST cause you to rethink what you have been taught.

Matthew 26:28 For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.

In the text of the Lord's goat and the scapegoat, only ONE ( the Lord's goat) has his blood shed for sins.

This is a wake up call.
You cannot have it any other way.

Hebrews 9:22 And almost all things are by the law purged with blood, and without shedding of blood is no remission.

You are being taught atonement WITHOUT the shedding of blood.
---francis on 4/20/10


People come here and post that they are Saved. They claim to be Christians. Then, they don't even know if Jesus was the Sacrfice or the Scapegoat.
Then we wonder why this nation is in the shape it is.
Sad, isn't it?
---Elder on 4/20/10


Francis, I do not really get what you are saying because you put down two kinds of answers but here is how I and many others interpret that passage. "The scapegoat" is the True Lamb of God who takes the sins of the world. This goat (literally Azazel or "escape goat") pictured the substitutionary bearing and total removal of sin which would later be fully accomplished by Jesus Christ (Matthew 20:28, John 1:29, 2 Cor. 5:21, Gal. 1:4, Heb. 9:28, 10:1-10, 1 Peter 2:24, 1 John 2:2,). The one that was killed was only a substitute to the real One. If you go to verses 20-22, you will find the answer. Here Aaron had made the atoning for the Holy Place, and now he lay both his hands on the head of the life goat,
---MarkV. on 4/20/10


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Any comments?--francis on 4/19/10

I have never sat in the Amen corner before and i try to avoid cliche, but...

Preach it!
---aka_joseph on 4/19/10


lit.Hb: "My God, My God, how have you scapegoated me, and are far from my salvation, the words of my groaning." Psalm 22:1. "Eli, Eli, lama sa bachthani, this being, My God, My God, how that me utterly ravaged." Matthew 27:46. "Eloi, Eloi, lima sa bachthani, that being translated, Light, Light, how onto me utterly ravaged." Mark 15:34.
---Eloy on 4/19/10


Adventists believe that the scapegoat in Leviticus typifies Satan. The truth is that Jesus became our scapegoat on the cross. He bore the blame for sins he did not commit. Any comments?

Jesus did not become our scapegoat, he became our passover lamb, killed for our sins. The scapegoat is not killed, no blood of the scape got is shed.

The word scapegoat is throwing a lot of people off.

Concerning Satan's sin, and his responsibility as tempter he must be punished for his responsibility. There is no savior to bear his punishment. He must himself "atone" for his sin in causing men to transgress. It is in this sense only that we understand the words concerning the scapegoat, "to make an atonement with him."
---francis on 4/19/10


In the OT the Scapegoat was symbolic. He was symbolically laden with the sins of the people and sent away into the wilderness. The sacrifice paid for the sins of the people by shedding his own blood and giving his life.
---Elder on 4/15/10

Notice that the scapegoat is addressed with the sins of the people AFTER the Lord's goat has been slain, and an atonement made by THE LORD's goat.

the scapegoat was NOT SACRIFICED for sins. And without the shedding of blood there is no remission (Heb. 9:22).

Hell was made for satan and his angels ONLY.
ONLY satan MUST die for sin

Matthew 25:41 ... Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:
---francis on 4/19/10


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It is precisely for this defective soteriology that when SDAs convert to Orthodoxy, they are received by Baptism.
---Cluny on 4/19/10

What "defective soteriology" do you speak of?

It is a rare occasion when SDA leave the church because of doctrine.
IF they do it is because they missunderstand what is taught.

Look at the text again:
Leviticus 16:8 And Aaron shall cast lots upon the two goats, one lot for the LORD, and the other lot for the scapegoat.

Only ONE o the goats is called the Lord's goat. and only ONE dies.

(1) that the transaction with the live goat (or Azazel) took place after the atonement for the sins had been accomplished,
---francis on 4/19/10


It is precisely for this defective soteriology that when SDAs convert to Orthodoxy, they are received by Baptism.
---Cluny on 4/19/10


Now two vital points involved are to be particularly noted:

(1) that the transaction with the live goat (or Azazel) took place after the atonement for the sins of the people had been accomplished, and the reconciliation completed, and

(2) that the live goat was not slain, and did not provide any propitiation or make any vicarious atonement. And without the shedding of blood there is no remission (Heb. 9:22).


Seventh-day Adventists therefore repudiate in toto any idea, suggestion, or implication that Satan is in any sense or degree our sin bearer. The thought is abhorrent to us, and appallingly sacrilegious. Such a concept is a dreadful disparagement of the efficacy of Christ and His salvation.
---francis on 4/19/10


This is one of the reasons why Orthodox considered SDA to be a sub-Christian cult. They make Satan the sinbearer, and in effect, the redeemer.
---Jack on 11/16/07

Read the passage again. The SIN BEARER is the one who dies for our sin, whose blood is shed.

There is no redeemtive power is the scapegoat. Hebrews 9:22 And almost all things are by the law purged with blood, and without shedding of blood is no remission.

Te scapegoat shall PAY the penalty for sins: that is SEPERATION from God, and God's people. This is in no way a redeemptive bearing of sins.
---francis on 4/19/10


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Two goats: One dies for our sins and one does not die for our sins, but has our sins placed on him.

Leviticus 16:8 And Aaron shall cast lots upon the two goats, one lot for the LORD, and the other lot for the scapegoat.

One for the lord bears our sins and like Jesus is sacrificed.

the scapegoat unlike Jesus is sent away. It is an act of saying that ONE person is responsible for starting sin, and that ONE person must bear the penalty for all the sins which is not paid for by Jesus.

Remember Hell is not for people it is made for satan.

Matthew 25:41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:
---francis on 4/19/10


Lev 16:8-10
And Aaron shall cast lots upon the two goats, one lot for the LORD, and the other lot for the scapegoat.
And Aaron shall bring the goat upon which the LORD'S lot fell, and offer him for a sin offering.
And Aaron shall lay both his hands upon the head of the live goat, and confess over him all the iniquities of the children of Israel, and all their transgressions in all their sins, putting them upon the head of the goat, and shall send him away by the hand of a fit man into the wilderness:

The scapegoat may represent the dual nature of Christs sacrifice.... The shed blood to atone for sins and the "scapegoat" to remove them far from us.
---Donna66 on 4/16/10


Satan is not the Scapegoat. As already stated the scapegoat (symboliclly) was laden with sin and sent away. Satan brings sin into the camp of God every chance he gets.
Maybe people need to ask what good thing has Satan ever brought into your life? Has he ever tried to remove sin from your life? Or, did he just pile more on you?
Jesus said, "Father I have gave them your Word..." Maybe it is time we really learned what He has said.
---Elder on 4/16/10


"The truth is that Jesus became our scapegoat on the cross."

I know that it is taught by some that Jesus is the scapegoat and taught by others that Satan is the scapegoat. Where, in scripture, does it say that?

The Bible through types and shadows shows us that consistently Jesus is the sacrifice and sin is the scapegoat.

You can keep repeating the same falsehood on either side as true, but it does not make it so. Why would God send His Son to the wilderness away from him. John 3:16 states clearly that Jesus is God's sacrifice for us and not the scapegoat.
---aka_joseph on 4/15/10


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Kella, I would certainly take it that Jesus became (in due time) the complete scapegoat, taking all the sins of the world. I have not heard the idea of Satan being the scapegoat, and, though one can find ways of defenting the idea, I would ignore it
---peter3594 on 4/15/10


Actually, I am going to correct myself. I believe "lots" were a type and shadow of the Holy Spirit. Therefore, once Aaron cast the lots, he left it to the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit then decided. It was no just a flippant coin toss (pun intended) as I suggested earlier.

That being said, I definitely do not believe that He was equalizing the goats, because the Lord already knew. The sacrifice and scapegoats were already set in the Edenic paradigm (Garden of Eden story). Notice that Adam and Eve had to leave like scapegoats? Type and shadow.
---aka_joseph on 4/15/10


Well, there ya go-

Thanks, Elder

Even better than Satan as a parallel, Barabas as a type and foreshadow. Both are unrepentent sinners.
---aka_joseph on 4/15/10


For those who believe in Jesus as Lord and Savior you do need to read the Scripture, lest you are ripe for deception by those you look down on.

The word used for scapegoat is H5799 az-aw-zale' From H5795 and H235, goat of departure, the scapegoat: - scapegoat.

As far as the goats being equal, The Lord is just saying that Aaron should flip a "coin" and one goat will represent the sacrifice for sin and one goat He will send to the wilderness away from Him forever. He is in no way saying they are equal. Some men may, but the Lord is not.

In this passage, az-aw-zale' and Satan are not a direct reference, but by inference the parallel is there.

Please reread this verse and the verses around it.
---aka_joseph on 4/15/10


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In the OT the Scapegoat was symbolic. He was symbolically laden with the sins of the people and sent away into the wilderness. The sacrifice paid for the sins of the people by shedding his own blood and giving his life.
In the NT (John 19) we see Barabbas, the real one laden with sin, being released and sent away while Jesus is sacrificed/Crucified.
It is noteworthy to understand that Barabbas was convicted of trying to overthrow the government and Pilate. Jesus never did anything like that. Pilate bowed to the will of ungodly people in crucifying Jesus. We comment on that a lot. We never say how many times we let the ungodly affect us in doing sin.
---Elder on 4/15/10


Jesus is the scapegoat, all offerings were a shadow of Messiah.

The offering of two goats is treated as one offering,singular in both english and Hebrew.

Leviticus 16:5 5 And he shall take of the congregation of the children of Israel two kids of the goats for a sin offering, and one ram for a burnt offering.

Jesus is our Sin offering,to believe otherwise is to murder the Hebrew and not listen to the Holy Spirit.

It is also a complete denial of Isa 53

Tom
---Tom on 4/14/10


what about the Scripture that He (Jesus) BECAME sin for us that we could become the righteousness of God...2Cor 5:21----that sounds like the scapegoat to me. also, the fact that after all the sins of the people were placed on the scapegoat, it was taken outside the camp...Heb. 13:11-13 also tells "The high priest carries the blood of animals into the Most Holy Place as a sin offering, but the bodies are burned outside the camp. And so Jesus also suffered outside the cit gate to make the people holy through his own blood. Let us then go to him outside the camp, bearing the disgrace he bore." just another interesting similarity.
---deshanna on 8/1/09


I'll take what I read in Hebrews 9 over EGW. More later.
---Kella3336 on 11/22/07


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Armageddon and the coming Crisis, aka The Great Controversy by EGW page 192 says ...to cont
---Kella3336 on 11/22/07


Cont. "When Christ, by virtue of His own blood, removes the sins of His people from the heavenly sanctuary at the close of His ministration, he will place them upon Satan, who, in the execution of the judgment, must bear the final penalty".
---Kella3336 on 11/22/07


Satan is not our scapegoat. Satan had no part in our salvation.

Satan is a deceiver (2 cor 11:3) a murderer (John 8:44), and a roaring lion seeking whom he may devour (1 Pet 5:8).

It was Christ Jesus that took our sins away (Heb 10:18).

We must remember that the Old Testament is full of types and shadows. These types and shadows are not the real thing. They give us glimpses of what's to come.

Lord bless each of you,
---trey on 11/20/07


Jesus paid our penalty for sin with His blood. He is the sacrificial lamb.
Azazel is the goat that was driven from the camp and represents Satan who will bear the final responsibility for sin. Azazel is not sacrificed for our sins and does not save us. Azazel is the one who is forever separated from God and destroyed along with all sin.
You are letting the term "scapegoat" confuse things. It is translated from "Azazel" and is a name for Satan.
---robin8683 on 11/20/07


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Exactly Andrea, very bad Theology. I am glad I have decided to study Theology after leaving the adventist church. And I praise God I left. I praise God for finding truth and leaving the errors of adventistism behind.Amen!
---Kella3336 on 11/19/07


This is one of the reasons why Orthodox considered SDA to be a sub-Christian cult. They make Satan the sinbearer, and in effect, the redeemer.

If this isn't defective Christology, what is?
---Jack on 11/16/07


scapegoat? jesus was sent by God to die on the cross in your and everyones place.only thru his death, a sinless man,was antonement made for the fall of man.then his resurrection was overcoming death.he died willingly in our place so that we might believe and live.
---tom2 on 11/15/07


It is Jesus that takes away the sins of the world.

Not Ellen White and not Satan

very poor theology
---Andrea on 11/15/07


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One animal couldn't fairly represent everything Christ did. According to Lev.16 the scapegoat didn't make the atonement for sin, it was the bullock. I would agree that the scapegoat doesn't fairly represent the devil because the devil didn't have our sins put on him and take them away.
Making the scapegoat the devil is another ploy to try and make us believe Jesus and the devil were brothers.
---john on 11/15/07


(Lev 16:8 NIV) "He is to cast lots for the two goatsone lot for the LORD and the other for the scapegoat."

If Ellen was right it would mean God cast lots between Satan and Jesus - making them equal again
this fits within a lot of cults theologies.
They depict Satan and Jesus as brothers or Jesus as an archangel

blasphemy
---Andrea on 11/15/07


Jesus is the sacrificial lamb who's blood is shed. The scapegoat's blood isn't shed so therefore cannot represent Christ.
The word that is translated to scapegoat is azazel, a name for Satan.
---robin8683 on 11/15/07


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