lionel Apparently Adventists do not distinguish between the Old & New Covenants but hold that certain laws in the OT not found within the New are also binding on Christians. They believe only the sacrificial laws were done away with, not the Sabbath which merely prefigured the believers rest in Christ (Hebrews 4:3) |
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---lee on 1/22/08 |
AG
Steveng
Tell me if any thing that I posted was incorect in your oponion. |
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---lionel on 1/9/08 |
AG
Steveng
Tell me if any thing that I posted was incorect in your oponion. |
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---lionel on 1/9/08 |
The only rules & instruction in the OT that apply today are those that are found also in the New Testament. God made a NEW covenant (a legally binding agreement) with His creation and since the church is under the New Covenant only, only those tenets in the New Covenant are obligatory. Such things as circumcision, sabbath keeping, dietary laws, etc. are not in the New Covenant and are optional. |
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---lee on 1/9/08 |
lionel: "There are things in the old testament that apply to the Jews and only them..."
In the beginning there were no Jews. God's laws was even then from the beginning. Abraham was favored by God among all men to begin the Jewish nation. The purpose was to bring the knowledge of God to the world. But their pride got in the way thinking that God only liked them. God was, is and ever shall be, so is his laws. |
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---Steveng on 12/27/07 |
lionel,
Pls give examples of rules that apply only to jews.
Then pls tell me which rules apply to me.
See I was raised Baptist, but my great great grandfather was jewish. Am I a Jew?
Or what about my Mormon friend who converted to Judaism, is he a Jew. What about his children?
Also my Israeli friend was raised in Jerusalem by an orthodox jewish family, but converted to Buddism. Is he still a Jew? |
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---AG on 12/24/07 |
There are things in the old testament that apply to the Jews and only them.
There are things that apply to the gentiles.
Some things apply to man in general.
The key is not to apply whats said to one group, and apply it to every one.
For instance God gave religeous rituals to the Jews.
In the old testament the law was given to the jews.
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---lionel on 12/20/07 |
"I look at Paul similar to the way many look upon Mary."
Oops, typo!
I do NOT look at Paul that way.
I meant to say:
"I think some look at Paul similar to the way many look upon Mary."
He's almost been diefied by many christians. |
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---AG on 12/20/07 |
Carla5754,
What does it prove is Paul wrote nothing on the subject?
I look at Paul similar to the way many look upon Mary.
Are Paul's writings superior than any other biblical author? No. His letters constitute less than 39% of the NT and less than 9% of the entire bible. (That's including the disputed book of Hebrews.)
Remember:
For any NT writing to be canonized it had to pass certain tests. One being that it could not contradict what had already been written. |
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---AG on 12/19/07 |
Jesus and the apostles often referred to the OT for teaching the Kingdom of God and how to get there. If the OT teachings have no bearing upon the Christians, why would they continue teaching from the OT. The Bereans were told to search the scriptures for the truth and for learning. What scriptures were they searching when the NT wasn't created? What scriptures were the Christians learning from for the first 500 years? |
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---Steveng on 12/18/07 |
RitaH,
I'm curious if you see Rom 14 a little differently.
Paul was writing about the gnostic teachings of self-denial. Not about OT instructions.
The gnostic influence taught believers to eat only veggies, as opposed to eating all CLEAN foods (meat & vegtables).
You see if Paul had contradicted the OT or Yeshua his letters would have been thrown out and considered uninspired.
It's important to try view scripture from the beginning forward vs from the present backward. |
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---AG on 12/18/07 |
The eternal law of righteousness (ten commandments) applies to the whole world, but the statutes judgements and ordinances applied only to Israel as they left Egypt, it was their constitution. All these will apply in the Kingdom of 1000 years. |
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---cheryl on 12/16/07 |
RitaH,
Romans 14 is a GREAT example. What I mean is if you accept that God does not change and therefore the OT & NT are in complete agreement, it changes your perspective of Rom 14. You'll see (like all of Paul's writings) it does not conflict with any part of the OT.
It is important to view Rom 14 through the light of Paul's previous writing. One of the helpful keys to understanding Rom 14 is to remember that it is preceded by Romans chapter 13. |
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---AG on 12/15/07 |
AG, There is only one thing that I can think of which fits this category. That is that in the Old Testament there are many rules about eating or not eating certain foods because they are unclean . Lev. 11:5-8 for example. In the New Testament Romans 14 has something different to say on the subject. |
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---RitaH on 12/12/07 |
They apply to the non-Christian today. When they stand before God at the Great White Throne Judgement they will be judged by the various commandments given, not only to the Jew, but to anyone who rejects salvation through Christ. Christians had the laws of the OT FULFILLED for them by Christ. (Matthew 5:12) |
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---wivv on 12/10/07 |
RitaH,
I'm not sure how we can assume New Testament scripture has authority to invalidate Old Testament scripture. To me that's an oxymoron. It's like saying the Son can invalidate the Father.
I don't see where NT scripture invalidates any OT rules, instructions or commandments. I see the two testaments being in complete agreement, just as the Father and Son are. They are two sides of the same coin. |
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---AG on 12/10/07 |
I agree with Rita and want to add: God is the same yesterday, today and forever. He never forgets His word, no matter when and what time of the century He spoke it. "Has He not said it? and will He not do it? It doesn't say and will He not do it in the New Testament? Just like we want the goody scriptures/blessings to apply to us in the OT, we have to obey the OT rules and regulations. No Adultery, No false idols, No killing, etc., |
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---Donna on 12/10/07 |
I believe that, unless the New Testament makes it clear that a rule, instruction or a commandment from the Old Testament is no longer valid, we should assume that it is still valid. Otherwise we can freely steal, murder, commit adultery etc. without a qualm of conscience and I think that we all know that we cannot do that. |
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---RitaH on 12/10/07 |
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