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Is Salvation Eternally Secure

If our salvation is eternally secure, why does the Bible warn so strongly against apostasy?

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 ---Cynthia on 12/11/07
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1Co 9:27 But I keep under my body, and bring it into subjection: lest that by any means, when I have preached to others, I myself should be a castaway.

Mat 7:21-23 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven, but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
---jerry6593 on 12/26/10


Jerry's the passage in Ezek. 33 is talking about people with their own righteousness, not Christ righteousness.
"Therefore you, o son of man, say to the children of your people: the righteousness of the righteous man shall not deliver him in the day of his transgressions," he is talking about all the righteous deeds they might have, will not save them.
next,
"When I say to the righteous that he shall surely live, ( their own righteousness) but he trust in his own righteousness and commits iniquity that he has committed, he shall die." This is not talking about eternal salvation and eternal death, but physical death in judgment for sin which, for believers could not result in eternal death.
---Mark_V. on 12/24/10


Our salvation is eternally secure if we depend Upon Christ for it. Jam 1:17 Every good gift and every perfect gift... cometh down from the Father of lights, with whom is no variableness, neither shadow of turning.. If you can be saved one day but not the next, where is your security?

If you think your salvation hangs on what you do or do not do, then you are ALWAYS in REAL danger...because unlike God, you are subject to changes, circumstances, moods, uncertainty.
Apostasy is to be rejected to prevent unbelievers being led astray. 2Pe 2:2 And many will follow their destructive ways, because of whom the way of truth will be blasphemed.
---Donna66 on 12/22/10


if we seek our security in CHRIST, Who is eternal--yes, then our salvation is eternally secure.

But I think there are too many people who are seeking their security in their own act of faith made sometime in the past.
---Cluny on 12/22/10


1Co 10:12 Wherefore let him that thinketh he standeth take heed lest he fall.

Eze 33:13 When I shall say to the righteous, that he shall surely live, if he trust to his own righteousness, and commit iniquity, all his righteousnesses shall not be remembered, but for his iniquity that he hath committed, he shall die for it.
---jerry6593 on 12/22/10




\\James* We are eternally secure even if we commit apostasy

Not so according to scripture

---Ruben on 12/21/10

Ruben,
You quoted 2Tim 2:17-18 from the NIV. Of all the translations I've seen, the NIV is the only one which says "destroy the faith of some".

Virtually all others say "upset the faith of some". There are a couple (KJV is one) which reads "overthrow the faith of some".

The Greek reads "turn up the faith of some"

Would you care to point out where it says anyone is going to hell? I didn't see that in any translation
---James_L on 12/21/10


1John 2:19 They went out from us, but they were not of us, for if they had been of us, they would [no doubt] have continued with us: but [they went out], that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us.
2Timothy 2:19 Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, Let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity.
---micha9344 on 12/21/10


JamesL, I just pulled up an article on John McArthur Lordship Salvation.

Yep, these guys are all over the place. Also those grounded in Reformed/Calvinism/Westminster etc. is WORKS. They just can't see it. Grace does not beg for mercy or committ yourself to God...both are WORKS.

I only read a few quotes from those pushing this and was surprised...well not really, that they consider RCC to be brothers and believe their doctrine is A OK. I've always thought Reformed never really left teh RCC , so that doesn't surprise me.

NOPE, I not Calvin/Reformed JamesL, and many who believe in GRACE plus nothing are not Calvin either.

I believe in my eternal security, but not because I'm working for it either.
---kathr4453 on 12/21/10


cynthia, my understanding is in 2nd Timothy 3 Christians are being warned about APOSTATES, and to have no fellowship with them...from such trun away we are commanded.

Jesus said. COME TO ME and I will give you rest.

Here is the invitation to come to Christ, believing a Promise He will give something to those who do.

REST is your eternal security. REST in Christ is resting in His finished work that YOU cannot add or take away from.

Jesus is the SURETY of the New Covenant. Surety is a LEGAL term. Look it up.
---kathr4453 on 12/21/10


James* Eternal security and the danger of apostasy are both taught in scripture because even "if we are faithless, He remains faithful, because He cannot deny Himself" (2 Timothy 2:13)

Yes 'he cannot deny himself', however "IF we deny him, He also will deny"v12

James* We are eternally secure even if we commit apostasy

Not so according to scripture:

"Their teaching will spread like gangrene. Among them are Hymenaeus and Philetus, 18 who have departed from the truth. They say that the resurrection has already taken place, and they destroy the faith of some."V 17




---Ruben on 12/21/10




Original Question:
If our salvation is eternally secure, why does the Bible warn so strongly against apostasy?

The question should not be IF our salvation is eternally secure, because Jesus Himself said we will NEVER perish (John 10:28).

With that, why are there warnings against apostasy? Because apostasy is a real danger for the believer.

A better question is in all the passages relating to apostasy, where do any of them say the consequence is hell? Nowhere

Eternal security and the danger of apostasy are both taught in scripture because even "if we are faithless, He remains faithful, because He cannot deny Himself" (2 Timothy 2:13)

We are eternally secure even if we commit apostasy
---James_L on 12/20/10


The Bible is the Word of God, and when God tells His children to read it, He is talking to us all through our life through His Word. The Holy Spirit every day reveals something new to us through all the Epistles to conform us to Christ. They were not written to stop us from falling, but to teach us how to live. Who to be aware of, how God is continuing to remove many of our old habits. Our conduct does not save us, only the grace of God through faith.
---Mark_V. on 12/20/10


Man needs to be saved from God's coming wrath.
God tells us what we must do to escape that wrath.
Faith in what God says causes us to believe the gospel of grace.
"Is once saved always saved" true?

The reason for this question is failure to understand the cross work of Christ.
2 Cor 5:17 Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away, behold, all things are become new. 18 And all things are of God, who hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ, and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation, 19 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them, and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.
---michael_e on 12/19/10


I dont believe that the Holy Ghost (in the Epistles) would warn us so many times after receiving Christ of things to refrain from and lies to be aware of for there to be no danger of falling away.

I do however believe that God is faithful as His word says. Which to ME means IF we do lose that which God has given us it is because we no longer wanted it.

I dont believe He ever gives up on us. Just as we would never give up on our own children. Even if they hated us on their death beds.
---JackB on 7/22/10


Being eternally secure is when you stay Totally & Wholly In with God, Matt.24 v 13.
NO flirting with the devil & his worldly pleasures 1st. John 2 v's 15 - 16. You canNot serve 2 masters.
---Lawrence on 7/22/10


"By your fruits ye shall know them". And what are those fruits representative of? The quality and strength of our faith. Our fruits are evidence our faith. They do not save us, otherwise the hypocrite would be saved by his hypocritical works. The bible over and over again says the evidence should be in the fruits though. We can judge ourselves by our fruits. Is our faith alive and strong, if so it should be obvious in our works?
---grant on 2/4/08


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Rules of conduct are always given to the believers only. None believers do not understand spiritual things of God. "Do not be deceived, my beloved brethren. Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above, and comes down from the Father of lights, with whom there is no variation or shadow of turning. Of His own will He brought us forth by the Word of truth, that we might be a kind of first fruits of His creatures"
---Mark_V. on 12/18/07


Believing something is not a work, it is an "ability." And God say's, we don't have the ability to come to Christ. "And he said, "This is why I told you that no one can come to Me 'unless' it is granted him by the Father" John 6:65. The ability to come to Christ has to be granted by God.
---Mark_V. on 12/17/07


Bad works,devils.If persons works are kind,giving,caring then that person is showing the Love of God to humankind they're a messenger of God through works,no doubt they belong to God. Mat 7:17 & 18 -every good tree bringeth forth good fruit,every corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit. A good tree can't bring forth evil fruit,neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit. Mat 12:33-for the tree is known by his fruit. Mat 7:19 if tree doesn't have good fruit,cut down and cast into fire.
---Darlene_1 on 12/16/07


UK Alan, you may be right. My thought was that in order to give assent to a scientific proposition, one must do a great deal of intellectual work to understand it first. Same with a theological proposition one does not at first understand. I do think saying Thank You is a work, and a very pleasant one at that!
---InimicusStultitiae on 12/14/07


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I S ... "is intellectual assent to theological propositions work?"
No, I don't think so.
"Works" are surely attempts to gaan salvation by what we do?
I don't see believing something is a work, nor is saying "thank you" a work, nor even is ssying "please"
---alan_of_UK on 12/14/07


UK Alan, maybe you know: is intellectual assent to theological propositions work? If such are required for salvation, aren't we then saved by works? How do we define Works? No garden path this time...
---InimicusStultitiae on 12/13/07


Mark V-Those who continue to deny salvation by grace through faith alone


Passage James 2:24:
"You see that a person is justified by works and not by faith alone."
---Ruben on 12/13/07


Mark V-. But when Scripture is not the final authority of your life, man becomes final authority,


Passage 1 Timothy 3:15:
"if I am delayed, you will know how people ought to conduct themselves in God's household, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and foundation of the truth."
---Ruben on 12/13/07


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The jurney of a 1000 miles begains with 1 step.But there is a lot of steps in between,
and, He lets ou know everyday that in order to remain the same... you have to maintain.
---Jack_8773 on 12/13/07


RCs do not believe that they we earn our way into heaven by doing good works, but we dont believe that just making a statement at one point in your life that Jesus is your personal savior automatically guarantees your assurance of salvation. Many verses in scripture say that a person must ammend their lives, obey the Commandments, forgive others etc to be saved. St. James states that faith without works is dead and asks what good is it to profess faith while your brother has no food, clothing, shelter?
---janet on 12/13/07


I wonder how many Christians on ths site say that they are saved by their works and not faith?
I suggest there are none
---alan_of_UK on 12/13/07


Here is an amazing statement."It isn't our works that "save" us, but unless we constantly repent and try to do better, our faith in Christ is insufficient for his redemption to have place in us."
---Mima on 12/13/07


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They bible warns against sin and apostacy because it is possible to sin and apostacize after having gained faith in Christ and thus fall away from God. We are human and are constantly in need of God's grace. He died once for all, but that doesn't mean that we can mock God. It isn't our works that "save" us, but unless we constantly repent and try to do better, our faith in Christ is insufficient for his redemption to have place in us.
---grant on 12/13/07


#3. Those who continue to deny salvation by grace through faith alone will always want everyone to earn their way in. Dogmatic teachings from their dogmatic religion. "We are saved by Grace through faith, not of ourselves it is a gift of God, so that no one can boast" and the first thing they do is boast of their own works. Many trying to save himself and true faith goes down the toilet.
---Mark_V. on 12/13/07


#4. If you read the Bible, or for that matter believe in it, you would know the truth and the truth would set you free. But when Scripture is not the final authority of your life, man becomes final authority, and you stay trapped in the dogmatic religion. Hebrews 12:1,2, "..let us, looking unto Jesus, the Author and finisher of our faith.." is a clear indication that Jesus not man, is the author of our faith, and
---Mark_V. on 12/13/07


#5. the reason Jesus tells us in 1 Cor. 1:7-9, "... so that you are not lacking in any spiritual gift, as you wait for the revealing of our Lord Jesus Christ, who will sustain you to the end, guiltless in the day of our Lord Jesus Christ," the means by which He sustains us is the faith we have from Him for Him. Don't ever doubt your faith if you are a child of God. The enemy would love nothing more then to cripple the believer by doubtin the Faith of Christ for Christ.
---Mark_V. on 12/13/07


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Only the one's who have "no true faith in Christ" will do what they want in life. They will give evidence of what is in their hearts. If the Spirit of God endwells the person, he will struggle in life even more, because the conflict between the flesh and the Spirit will be an ongoing thing. He will be sanctified by the Spirit and his faith will endure to the end for "that faith is from God through the person of Jesus Christ who is the Author and finisher of our faith.
---Mark_V. on 12/13/07


#2. There is many who would have you believe they create that true faith, and its because they want to be the cause of their own salvation by their works. This way they can have it an give it up when they want, making man the cause of his salvation. They want all those who truly believe by faith to question their own faith, but those are lies from the enemy who would love nothing more then for a Christian to question his faith, that Christ gave him at rebirth.
---Mark_V. on 12/13/07


Well said catherine! It exactly answers the
question.
---Nana on 12/13/07


Christ died for all and God wants everyone saved, so that outcome is in the bag.
---InimicusStultitiae on 12/12/07


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Again without going to scripture because I have to go for a walk. Salvation is only secure if you stay faithful till the end.
---catherine on 12/12/07


Because "There shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring damnable heresies, even denying the the Lord that brought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction. Which have gone the way of Balaam, who loved the wages of unrighteousness. For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of God into lasciviousness, and denying the only LORD God, and our Lord Jesus Christ."
---joseph on 12/12/07


there is one God and one mediator btw God and man. the man christ Jesus.1 tim 2:5

Jesus came into the world to save sinners. 1 tim 1:15

Salvation is secure 100%. It would be not gud of a reghteous God not to warn people of apostacy. I geuss the message is Guard your heart for the duration of your LIFE.That you do not know.
---brian3745 on 12/12/07


We are born to die!We are told be prepared WHY?If salvation is secured by belief with grace, should we worry?.St Paul tells us faith without good works is dead.Jesus says ,follow me "be perfect as your heavenly father,we are made to the image and likeness of God.That said it takes ENDEAVOUR, which transalated means Work for your salvation, Prove to God you are worthy refrain fom sin.Its the truth.OSAS is false & satan want you to believe this.He wants his share of the pie -YOU.
---Emcee on 12/11/07


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The salvation of every person who ever lived is eternally secure. Rom.5.18, 1.Cor.15.28.
---InimicusStultitiae on 12/11/07


(1)Cynthia
It is by the grace of God that we are saved through faith in Christ Jesus, as stated in Eph. 2:8.


Salvation is eternally secure as we are sealed by the Holy Spirit which is the promise of our inheritance as stated in Eph.1:13-14.
---Shawn.M.T on 12/11/07


(2)Cynthia, APOSTASY means the renunciation of faith or more simply put the denial or rejection of faith. This would be considered blasphemy against the Holy Spirit. Which is, as stated in Matt. 12:31, the one sin that will not be forgiven?




The Grace of God will save you but only through faith. So if you deny or give up your faith, how do you except to be saved.
---Shawn.M.T on 12/11/07


Yes, if you are among Gods elect nothing can take you out of the family of God. This is not license to do thing you want, as God the Father is free to chastise members of the family if there is need to do so. God chose you before the beginning of the world. How do you plan to use the grace that He gave you?
---Phil_the_Elder on 12/11/07


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(3) So, yes, once Satan has us compromised in ANY sin, at all, he would take us to hell. NO sin is safe, then. We all have experienced how in sinning we do NOT really have control > we hurt ourselves and others, can't even get those pleasures the way we'd like, and Satan would finish us off if God did not override what our "free wills" started. So, God warns us against apostasy and hell, because every choice to sin IS choosing Satan and therefore to share in his fate, but God intervenes.
---Bill_bila5659 on 12/11/07


You're not saved if you're not safe (o: "But he who is joined to the Lord is one spirit with Him." (1 Corinthians 6:17) The Holy Spirit's own almighty power has each of us "joined to the Lord" in an almighty bond with Him. And the Holy Spirit is THE Spirit of obedience, who in our union "with Him" shares His obedient "divine nature" (2 Peter 1:4) with us, so we don't sin to death. Please see (2) >
---Bill_bila5659 on 12/11/07


(2) nice to see you again ((o: > But we do sin, and in sinning Satan has us weakened, so that once he has us weakened in even a "little" sin he would take us the rest of the way, except >

we are each almightily "joined to the Lord", plus >

"God resists the proud" (in James 4:6 and in 1 Peter 5:5). God's resisting us in pride stops us for correction, then His chastening (Hebrews 12:1-11) has us doing better. please see (3) >
---Bill_bila5659 on 12/11/07


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