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Water Turned Into Wine

Do you believe Jesus turned water into wine alcohol or unfirmented grape juice?

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 ---Kella3336 on 12/15/07
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All I have to say is...

Mark 7:14-15
---John on 8/20/08


****kathr4453 Having no blood. (Please give chapter and verse any Book)
Is this from man!***

We don't know what we will be but we know we will be like Him. Bone of His Bone and Flesh of His flesh.

Jesus does not have any BLOOD running through HIS veins.....nor will we.

We will be Glorified together with Christ....a NEW Creation.

When Jesus rose from the Dead, did He not eat and drink? YES! Yet, He SHED His Blood...and it was poured out for the sin of man.

WHERE can YOU prove otherwise?
---kathr4453 on 8/19/08


Kathr-we will have no blood in heaven? Where do you get that from? After Jesus' resurrection He made sure those who met Him were aware that he was not a ghost but alive and eating. And as explained He said He would drink fermented wine with us in heaven. You don't have to but don't tell me I can't, that is legalism.

Wine may make you silly and dizzy but for me it is pleasant and relaxing and also healthy in moderation. You have to stop drinking that cheap Mexican wine!
---Warwick on 8/19/08


Robert of course the abuse of alcohol causes untold suffering, as does the abuse of the intellect, abuse of food, motor vehicle, prescription drugs and so on.

When someone abuses alcohol, food or prescription medicine they have an underlying problem. The food, alcohol and drugs are not the cause of the problem but an incorrect attempt at a solution.
---Warwick on 8/19/08


Verily I say unto you, I will drink no more of the fruit of the vine, until that day that I drink it new in the kingdom of God.
Yes indeed Warwick

kathr4453 Having no blood. (Please give chapter and verse any Book)
Is this from man!

Luke 24:41
And while they yet believed not for joy, and wondered, he said unto them, Have ye here any meat?
And they gave him a piece of a broiled fish, and of an honeycomb.
And he took it, and did eat before them.

Now therefore why tempt ye God, to put a yoke upon the neck of the disciples, which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear?

Know this!
1Jn 3:2
I do love you!
---Frank on 8/19/08




Are we getting silly? Talk to the family of an alcoholic and see the destruction it causes to life and others. Its really not a kidding matter. The Lord takes a self destructive life style very seriously. The physical and bodily destruction, pancreatic cancers, liver destruction, impaired cognitive judgement, vehicular homicide, assaults, domestic violence, etc.. joking is very inappropriate. I don't think Jesus is talking about wine in the sense people might even imagine. I humbly suggest a not so flip response to any aspect of any form of alcohol or a symbolic portrayal of such consumption. I think the Lord would prefer a more serious mindset while here.
---Robert on 8/19/08


*****I like the fact that the Lord said He would drink wine with us in heaven. Imagine how good that wine will be.*****


Well Warwick, considering we won't be humans, but New Creations......having no blood...there won't be any need of fermentation traveling through the blood stream entering the brain causing silliness, dizziness, in Heaven etc.

There will be no need for a Heavenly AA Program needing to be established!!!!


Praise God!!!


---kathr4453 on 8/19/08


Simply, growing closer to Jesus Christ and walking longer with Him, intoxicants/alcohol of any amount, becomes distasteful, particularly with the realization that the body is the Temple of the Holy Spirit. This occurs immediately and with some over time. The desire for Biblical excuses to justify compromising desires of the flesh, will fade. Worldly things start losing attraction and satisfaction. You realize all things belong to the Lord anyway. Notwithstanding, one doesn't withdraw from life, joy, humor and appreciation of God's creation. Its God in a person's life, trumps everything else and He's the object of a person's attention, appreciation, thankfulness,love, and praise. The argument over wine then seems all the more silly and mute.
---Robert on 8/19/08


And kathr what was the apostles reply about this accusation? Was it-oh no perish the thought we never drink wine! Or was it-we are not drunk, its only nine in the morning? This is clear evidence that they did indeed partake of the alcoholic fruit of the vine, but not till later in the day.


I like the fact that the Lord said He would drink wine with us in heaven. Imagine how good that wine will be.
---Warwick on 8/18/08


Drinking wine (like most things) is not wrong...not until you abuse it and/or put it in front of God.
---John on 8/18/08




****I do not believe that people would accuse a person drinking grape juice to be a wine bibber,****

Mima, during Pentecost, when the Apostles were filled with the Holy Spirit, they were accused of being DRUNK with NEW Wine.

We know they weren't.

---kathr4453 on 8/18/08


Kenny:- the conversation was about wine You have introduced the word Intoxication not me Guy.
---MIC on 8/18/08


Where it says...saved the best for last..is indeed not about ALCOHOL, but about the New Covenant...as the NEW Covenant is so much better then the OLD.

It is in contrast to Moses first miracle of turning water into blood.....condemnation! The wine was Jesus FIRST Miracle.

Everything Jesus taught was about some deeper spiritual insight.

Putting New Wine on old wine skins is not about how to make wine.

Sewing an old patch on a new garment is not about SEWING, or garment making.

Maybe all that alcohol had dulled the senses of those who don't understand spiritual things !
---kathr4453 on 8/18/08


Wine was a staple in the biblical culture. Research it and see how it is mentioned in other parts of the bible. One reference will say, wine makes the heart glad... another will say, drink a little wine... for thine often infirmities.
---Gayla on 8/17/08


MIC,
I thought the conversation was the wine? Who said anything about drunkenness, or intoxication?
---Kenny on 8/16/08


God forgive us!
If you think drinking any type of alcohol, is going to keep God away from you, think again.
It is not what you take in, but what you put out where.
Mat 15:11

Changing the word of god, to the word of man! Telling people if you dont, you cant, as if Christ told you to do this.
Heb 7:12

Christ said, give them my words I will explain not you.
Christ said, I came for the sinners of the world.
Now you are telling everyone, you must not be a sinner.
Wrong again, just the opposite, know you are a sinner, so he can help you.
Joh 12:47
Joh 12:48

Know this, out of your owe mouth, you will be judge.
---Frank on 8/16/08


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Frank:-In MHO, it was First rate wine fully fermented The best ever yet produced.Fit for the table of a King,Jesus 's miracle superceeds all.Only the best Does He prepare for those He loves.Remember He was God and was Giving us an example.A wee bit of the best will not cause intoxication this is caused by those who Guzzle of their own choice as do sinners.The word here is restraint .A man who makes a fool of Himself ,Is Indeed a fool.Remember what the wine taster's comment was.
---MIC on 8/15/08


Kathr4453,
Fermenting is a natural process taking days?
You mean Jesus, who is God, who was here from the beginning Gen 1:2-3, and created all things in six days, and raises and heals the decomposing body of a dead man in an instant, should have a problem making the best container of real wine men have ever tasted?
---Kenny on 8/15/08


Proverbs 20:1 says that wine is a mocker and strong drink is raging, and Whosoever is deceived thereby is NOT wise. Jesus is THE WORD, He is the Way,Truth and Life and does not lie. There is not decay (ferment)in HIM. Jesus would not contradict Himself and lead people astray, He tempts no one. James 1:13,14. The best grape juice in town: unfermented.
---g_mograss on 8/15/08


The wine Jesus made was not fermented, as that is a natural process taking days. There were no days involved here.

Fermentation = leaven.

So what was served was actually unleavened wine!!!!!!

The WINE = teh Blood of Christ....UNLEAVENED.

Jesus would not in reality do the opposite to make a spiritual application.

The story is NOT about WINE and getting DRUNK at a wedding, but depicts the Blood of the Covenant...

The New Covenant is unleavened.....Grace+nothing.

Old Covenant Phariseeism = leaven of the Pharisees.
---kathr4453 on 8/15/08


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---catherine as you know people accused the Lord Jesus Christ of being a wine bibber. Now they were standing right there watching what he drunk. I do not believe that people would accuse a person drinking grape juice to be a wine bibber, But my question to you is do you believe that he was drinking wine or do you believe they were lying and it was really just grape juice?
---Mima on 8/15/08


Mic
Thanks for your explanation of the water and wine.
So was it wine alcohol or unfermented grape juice?

I tend to look at it another way. Something like through the person of Christ, everyone will be changed and there is nothing you can do for it, it is a free gift to you. If you think you must do or change something yourself, think again.

I hear people say just like you, one must change. Mat 7:3

In that, you are telling a person you are not good enough for God as you are. I know this is what the law in the bible said. But by the law shall no flesh be saved.

Stop putting mountains between people and God.
Put Christ there!
---Frank on 8/14/08


>>According to the scripture in John chapter 2, it was fermented wine which documents that it caused dulling of the senses. The greek word for juice, is "chymos", and grape juice, "chymos stafylis", but the greek word used in this passage in the Bible is "oinos", which means "wine". And verse 10 tells of it's fermentation.<<---Elroy

Thank you for giving teeth to my argument. We distort truth in scripture when we change the meaning of the original words. We have both 'wine maketh glad' and 'be not drunk' in the Bible.
---obewan on 8/14/08


I think every one missed the meaning and the reason for Jesus changing water into wine.Several things involved.
1. Obedience and Honour to His Mothers Request."They Have No wine"She was confident her son would not fail Her.Her method of telling us "TRUST MY SON"
2 Jesus Miraculously changed water into wine better than the First which was served, In taste texture. Thereby showing us that if we desire to attempt something we should do our best to Improve. the water into wine exhibits "Change"
---MIC on 8/13/08


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I can see where one could misunderstand what I wrote.
In everything I wrote its alcohol.

Bishop must be blameless no alcohol for him
Tit 1:7
Not (intemperate = not temperate) in the use of wine
None or all he wants, anyway!

Mat 15:11 Not that which goeth into the mouth defileth a man, but that which cometh out of the mouth, this defileth a man.

Thinks something is a sin, it is.
John 1:29 and Roman Ch. 5

Mat 16:19 And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.

Think about it.
But, dont blame God.
---Frank on 8/11/08


Not everyone gets drunk. I can go to social event, and only drink one glass.

I truly don't even think they even had grape juice back then.

Go to Europe and you it is hard to find grape juice. Esp in Italy, the capital city for wine.
All the hotels had other juices, but not grape juice. (8 different ones I was in from North to South of Italy)

But, when dinner and supper came, the menu for the wine was twice as long as for the food.

6oz glass of wine was 3 Euros.(low Avg.)
One 12 oz Coke-cola was 5 Euros = $7.50 in dollars. (The worst part is their Coke isn't the same as our Coke.)

Want I am saying is that Grape Juice is American, New World.

The saying is 'Life is Wine.
Not Grape juice.
---Nicole on 8/5/08


Ken you are right.

When in Europe on Christian ministry it's common to be offered beer or wine. I've never seen anyone in these groups drunk.

In the US on ministry, at a restaurant, I picked up a bottle of Italian wine from an attractive display. One of the party sternly said- I wouldn't drink that, not a good example for the brothers! How pathetic! I had no intention of drinking wine, knowing what narrow minded wowsers US Christians can be.

Interestingly a few of this group, well overweight, ate enough for three people. A glass of wine is frowned upon but gluttony is ok apparently!

In France US pastors are enforcing no wine rules in the churches. Members can't wait until they can be replaced with French pastors!
---Warwick on 8/4/08


According to the scripture in John chapter 2, it was fermented wine which documents that it caused dulling of the senses. The greek word for juice, is "chymos", and grape juice, "chymos stafylis", but the greek word used in this passage in the Bible is "oinos", which means "wine". And verse 10 tells of it's fermentation. Usually the best aged wine was served first, and after the guests had well drunk then the green or poor wine was served, but instead Jesus served the best aged wine at the end of the wedding. Yes, Jesus made well aged and perfectly fermented wine in an instant.
---Eloy on 8/4/08


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When scripture mentions wine, it is wine. When scripture mentions grape juice, it is grape juice. All of you are making a fuss over nothing.
---Ken on 8/3/08


Frank you distort Scripture!

'Luk 5:39 grape juice or alcohol..'

This verse is about aged vs young wine.

'Luk 10:34 grape juice and oil...'

The word in Greek is 'oinos' fermented wine.

'Act 2:13...'

The apostles opponents endeavoured to ridicule them by saying they were drunk. Peter's reply wasn't that they didn't drink, but not that early!

'Eph 5:18 and be not drunk with wine...' alcohol'

Exactly don't be drunk, be moderate.

'1Ti 5:23 grape juice for infirmities..'

Why did God use the word for wine if He meant grape juice?

'Tit 1:7 bishop must be blameless no alcohol for him'

Wrong the word in Greek means drunkard-not moderate consumption.
---Warwick on 8/3/08


I believe He turned it into unfermented grape juice. I don't think Jesus would make wine to get everyone drunk and help them sin. That's crazy.
Christ is represented by purity...unleavened bread, unfermented grape juice. The leaven, as the fermentation, is a symbol of corruption...sin.
---Todd1 on 8/3/08


Luk 1:15 wine nor strong drink - alcohol
Luk 5:39 grape juice or alcohol - alcohol
Luk 10:34 grape juice and oil, yes thats good for wounds,
Joh 2:10 the first drink you taste the alcohol, after that it all the same.
Act 2:13 grape juice would not make you dumb alcohol would
Eph 5:18 and be not drunk with wine - alcohol
1Ti 3:8 not given to much wine - alcohol
1Ti 5:23 grape juice for infirmities, no alcohol
Tit 1:7 bishop must be blameless no alcohol for him
Tit 2:3 not given to much wine - alcohol

Now therefore why tempt ye God, to put a yoke upon the neck of the disciples, which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear?
---Frank on 8/2/08


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So many of the anti-wine brigade are very judgemental, very legalistic. And also not in tune with Scripture, we can enjoy eating, and drinking wine, but are not to be gluttons for food or drunkards.

If you don't want to drink then no one is encouraging you to do so. But if my Lord created wine, and drank it, that's good enough for me.

If He created grape juice He would have called it so, not using the word for fermented alcoholic grape juice.

Further, scientific research shows moderate consumption of red wine is good for your health.
---Warwick on 8/1/08


He obviously changed the water into wine, thus the statement from the host of the wedding about saving the best wine for last. If it was unfermented juice, why this comment? Grape juice is grape juice whether served in the beginning or the end of the reception. They said, "most serve the best first, only after all have had their fill do they bring out the poorer quality wine" my paraphrase. Whether or not Jesus partook of the wine is another question. We don't know that for sure. Either way, you have to consider the cultural implications of that age. Wine did not have the same connotation as it does in our western culture of partying, drinking and drugging.
---anne on 8/1/08


It could have been grapejuice. Do not imply that God was a drunk or that He even took one sip of wine.
---catherine on 8/1/08


ANTHONY, paul also said that some concidder all to be good whilst others dont, some drink some dont, let that not seperate you. the gospel is not about foods and drinks, but about Gods love. Myself i do not drink believing to please God and to lead a holy life through it. On the other hand there are plenty occasional drinkers who will have a glas once in a while, and the bible does not judge them. Jesus drank fermented wine (since it was impossible to have non-fermented wine) yet he was not a drunker. thats why Jesus said John did not drink or eat and you call him demon possesed, the son of man did eat and drink you call him a gluton and a winebibber. my advice is if you love Christ it is better to stop drinking.-however not forbidden
---Andy on 8/1/08


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those of you drinking wine and tasting alcohol. why would you tempt God. didn't paul say shall we sin that grace abound God forbid. why go so far to say Jesus would allow such a thing if he didn't drink wine and told us to be perfect even as our father in heaven is perfect why would we as christian's want to drink to start with. Christ came as an example why don't we folow that example.
---anthony on 7/28/08


Alan of Uk:I am sorry that joke was perpetrated by some one who was un knowledgeable.The reason for my interjection is That in The sacrament of The Holy Eucharist, one can pass the Wine with no offence, in view of the abnormality or affliction.Many children and adults pass & it is not frowned upon.Neither is it compulsory as the wafer is the representative of the Body & Blood of Jesus.
---Emcee on 1/15/08


Hi Alan, yeah I agree with you about alcoholics needing to abstain from ANY alcohol, it sounds so silly but even Nyquil gets me eager for more--and I hate the taste!!! Isn't that nuts? Or is it normal alcoholism? By the way, I'm sorry for your friend--that was a terrible "joke" they pulled on her!
---Mary on 1/15/08


fIRST OFF , SOMEONE SAID THAT CHRIST WAS GOD.
I JUST WANT TO SAY,who was his FATHER?
If HE WAS GOD?
Misunderstanding is A TRAP.
100%water.and the power of GOD
BROUGHT FORTH WINE.I know the world is not comparing the wine of today with that same
wine?The natural,against the suparnatural.
SAID I TO ME.And then i said,...let me go and see.And i can't believe it.
---Jack_8773 on 1/2/08


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God was no drunk. God was never married. God did not have a girlfriend. God was placed on that cross at the hands of wicked men, in order to save some souls. He was focused.
---catherine on 1/1/08


Susie ... # 1 You don't understand what an alcoholic is. It is NOT a person who drinks alcohol to excess.
An alcoholic is a person who has an addiction to alcohol, usually caused by previous excessive alcohol consumption.
I have a friend who is an alcoholic. She does not drink alcohol now, but if she did, in even a tiny amount, it would set her body (for alcoholism is a physical medical condition) down that slippery slope again
---alan_of_UK on 12/29/07


Susie ... # 2 So, for communion she has non-alcolic grape juice, for to take alcohol would have that adverse effect.
Her lifestyle, intention and habits are such that she does not drink alcohol, but she remains an alcoholic, because her body has this addiction in it, waiting for the opportunity to spring into its evil life again.
I will now tell of something that happened to that lady, and hopefully you will understand the condition a bit better
---alan_of_UK on 12/29/07


Susie ... # 3 My friend does not drink alcohol.
At a party, she had a non-alcoholic drink. All OK until at one point when her back was turned, a "friend" played a "joke" on her, and added a small amount of tastelsss alcohol to her glass.
When she drank from that glass agaim, she had no idea that there was no alcohol in that drink.
---alan_of_UK on 12/29/07


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Susie ... # 4 So my friend unknowingly and innocently drank some alcohol.
Within a short time, the alcoholism, which was lying dormant in her body, awoke, and she started to crave alcohol.
But she could not understand why, until someone told her how she had been tricked.
---alan_of_UK on 12/29/07


Susie ... # 5 In fact, I think that most alcoholics who recognise that they are alcholics no longer take alcohol, because they know what will happen if they take even the smallest amount
---alan_of_UK on 12/29/07


Susie ... # 6. The same applies to gambling addiction. I know a man who is a gambling addict, and his habit almost destroyed his family. He no longer gambles at all. He knows that if he even buys a 20 cent (or 50 pence in English money) raffle ticket with a potential prize of just a box of chocolates, that will start the massive gambling pattern again.
Both these friends are born-again Christians, whose faith gives them the strength to avoid the temptations.
---alan_of_UK on 12/29/07


I believe the Jews were drinking fermented wine at the wedding feast, as other scriptures tend to lead the reader to believe that the wine of that time was alcoholic. However, it's quiet possible that Jesus turned the water into non-alcoholic wine -- Heaven's wine. After all, the Jews had already "well drunk", so I doubt Jesus would have contributed to drunkenness.
---Mr._Graham on 12/25/07


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Wine in Jewish wedding feasts is very important. it is a cultural thing, Jesus made real wine or else they wouldn't have said that it was good. Remember the Jewish understanding of the drinking of "adult" beverages is vastly different than most Protestant Christians. Why are we imposing on Jesus and the ancient Jews our own personal beliefs when they may or maynot be similar. I'm opposed to drinking yet I do not believe it is in itself a sin. It is only sinful if you abuse it.
---Jared on 12/23/07


The psalms and other scriptures recommend taking a little wine to lift the spirit, so I assume the wine must have been alcohol based. The point is to take a LITTLE....drinkenness is not approved of.
---Jualsy on 12/22/07


So Bill, are you saying that Paul was a liar? (1Cor.9:22) Isn't intentional deceiving someone a lie? (Becoming anything)
I also see a lie in Col.1:24, don't you?
---Dr._Rich on 12/22/07


Anyone who thinks by serving grape juice instead of wine for communion is going to keep an alcoholic from drinking alcohol is fooling themselves. I suppose there were no alcoholics at that wedding. But, then that was before being a drunk became a disease.
---Susie on 12/21/07


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of course it was wine, real wine, which they all drank in those days. water wasnt too pure. even the children drank wine. at 6 to 10years old I drank wine in italy, as children do today. it was a wedding feast, and drinking wine was for a joyous occassion. to feel good and happy. but Jesus saved the best wine for last, its usually the opposite. Jesus the apostles and all the villages drank wine from childhood. after it was squeezed it was put in earthen vats and there turned into alcohol. simple
---joe_remo on 12/21/07


Jack,

Although my posts may seem to contradict one another let me add:

I personally do not think Jesus would put a stumblingblock before those at the wedding but he could have if he wanted.
Since I wasn't there I won't say one way or the other.

Frank
---Frank on 12/21/07


Jack,
I do believe there is quite a difference between Jesus and I. I do not think he put a stumblingblock before them, but alcoholics weren't listed as being present.
You seem to nit-pick pretty well and use terms like pop-evangelicals which I do not find in the Bible.
I noticed upon checking your blogs that there isn't anything that teaches. Only criticizes.
A little proud are we?
That is a little out of balance. The Lord delights in a just weight and equal balance.

Frank
---Frank on 12/21/07


Jack,
The word says that Jesus Christ himself would be a rock of offense and a stone of stumbling placed before many.
The word says he will have mercy on whom he will and harden whom he will.
The word says he can build up and tear down.

Yes, he may have placed a stumbling block before whom he wished.

All things pertaining to the word and kingdom of God go his way and not ours.
Frank
---Frank on 12/21/07


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Paul says, "to the weak I became as weak, that I might win the weak. I have become all things to all men, that I might by all means save some." (1 Corinthians 9:22) So, I can see the value of becoming as the weak alcoholic, by using grape juice in communion. But don't lie about how the Bible clearly says Jesus changed water into wine...wine which the master knew should be served first so people later would not know the inferior stuff was inferior (John 2:9-10) (o:
---Bill_bila5659 on 12/21/07


"nor as being lords over those entrusted to You, but being examples to the flock." (1 Peter 5:3) So, I must not be presenting my views in order to lord and glorify myself over you. And others must not invent doctrine and practice in order to get control over others. Each of us is accountable for our actions. If I can't handle even a sip of wine, don't take it > bring my own grape juice??
---Bill_bila5659 on 12/21/07


Susie, you could well be correct in saying that grape-juice has been served instead of wine in some churches since long before A.A. was formed but that does not change the fact that MANY of the churches who choose grape-juice do so for the reasons that many of us have stated. My life has been greatly affected by another person's alcoholism and, believe me, if using grape-juice can help those with that problem I am sure that God approves, regardless of what others might think.
---RitaH on 12/21/07


**With all due respect, we use grape juice because we do not wish to place a stumbling block before those who are as stars that differ in glory or may be as a different part of the body. **

Are you saying that Jesus DID place stumbling blocks before these people by His use of wine?
---Jack on 12/20/07


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The word wine in the bible was not juice. Noah drank vine and was drunkened.
---jody on 12/20/07


Kella,

I believe the scriptures therefore I believe it was wine.

Lord bless you,
---trey on 12/20/07


Both Hebrew and Greek have different words for WINE and JUICE. Jesus's very first miracle turned water into WINE. It was so good people complained that it wasn't served first.

He had no problems with wine - and the Pharisees accused him of being a drunkard.

Scripture often warns against drunkenness, but ALSO recommends wine for a sick stomach.

Those who prohibit all use of wine are like Pharisees, building hedges around the law to prohibit things the bible never intended to prohibit.
---StrongAxe on 12/20/07


At the time Jesus arrived at the wedding feast, the guests had "well drunk" of whatever they were drinking. Jesus knew the solemn warnings of (Habakkuk 2:15),"Woe to him who gives his neighbor intoxicating drink."
---Mr._Graham on 12/20/07


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Speaking of John The Baptist: "For he shall be great in the sight of the Lord, and shall drink neither wine nor strong drink . . . " (Luke 1:15)

Why would God say that John The Baptist shall not drink grapefruit juice?
---Mr._Graham on 12/20/07


Susie,
With all due respect, we use grape juice because we do not wish to place a stumbling block before those who are as stars that differ in glory or may be as a different part of the body.
Sometimes it is more admirable to forsake your "rights" for others than to stand on them and cause others to fall.
Remember, the whole congregation are not "mature." Some are babes and many have different pasts they have come out of.
May God bless.
Frank
---Frank on 12/20/07


Susie, you got that right: AA as the church of the decade. Their communion is coffee and birthday cake. I went to AA meetings for 40 years. I finally left.
---InimicusStultitiae on 12/20/07


Mary,
Congratulations on you recovering from alcoholism. May the Lord bless you with an alcohol free life from now till eternity.
Frank
---Frank on 12/20/07


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Jack...Now don't be messing with their minds by telling them the truth. Serving grape juice has to do with people thinking that they can't even drink one little sip of alcohol or they will be bound for hell. It has nothing to do with being afraid there might be a recovering alcoholic in the church. Grape juice was served long before AA became the church of the decade.
---Susie on 12/20/07


Mary,
It's no problem. Many times my wording probably comes across as mean, judgmental or self centered. It's meant to share spiritual things about who Jesus is and why he came here but doesn't always come across right since I have a bad habit of writing sentences backwards like King James talk. Just a habit from reading the Bible completely through over 100 times. Easily misunderstood.
May God bless,
Frank
---Mary on 12/20/07


Hope I didn't sound mean Frank, I'm just very sensitive to some things. By the way, I absolutely agree with you--Jesus turned water into wine and it was His first miracle. As a recovering alcoholic, it's hard for me to understand why He wouldn't make grape juice but He's the Lord and it's HIS perogative, amen. :)
---Mary on 12/20/07


Jack, I believe that the churches that use grape-juice or non-alcoholic wine for communion do not do so because they are trying to improve on what Jesus did, it is in case there is a recovering alcoholic present who might be harmed by the smell or taste of alcohol. We don't know every little detail about those who attend regularly and we know nothing about people who visit. As the elements are only a symbol I really don't think that this is important but I appreciate the fact that some think differently.
---RitaH on 12/20/07


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Why are you picking on the baptists? I have been in Methodist churches for years and never had anything but grape juice for communion. I did not know the whole reason why until my SS Teacher visited an episcopal church that used real wine. She was not able to partake of communion because she was a former alcoholic. She said that the wine prevented her and others who had been alcoholics from participating. I had never thought of that before.
---Gena on 12/19/07


If Jesus only drank grape juice, the Pharasees would have accused him of being a "grape-juice bibber."
---InimicusStultitiae on 12/19/07


** Just a word about the Baptist. There some Baptist churches, who will only serve grape juice in communion service.**

I know. They think they can improve upon Jesus Christ, Who used FERMENTED WINE.

Think a minute. Without refrigeration, pasteurization, or preservatives, grape juice will do one of two things: become wine or become vinegar. Either is a natural process that starts immediately upon crushing the grapes and stops by itself.
---Jack on 12/19/07


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