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False Prosperity Message

I just heard a man say that the "prosperity message" is deceptive blasphemy. Do you believe there is any truth to that statement?

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 ---Mima on 12/18/07
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The prosperity message flies in the face of what is plainly taught in Scripture, namely that, as followers of Christ, we are likely to encounter persecution or, at the very least, resistance from the world.
---Bobby3 on 12/8/08


Money is like guns: Neither evil or good. Just tools for our use. If either guns or monies are used in a crminal act, it still does not make them evil, just tools. There are several passages in the Bible on how to handle your finances, etc..so even Jesus did not think of money as evil. Just the worship of it!
---Sally on 12/6/08


Austin-- Often the "prosperity" gospel emphasizes material gain, which, of course should be of little concern to Christians in the U.S.

We Christians in the USA need your prayers because we are rather easily mislead. I know a pastor from your country and know of conditions in Nigeria that few of us here have the faith to face as Christians in your country do.

Rev 3:17 applies to us:
You say, I am rich, I have acquired wealth and do not need a thing. But you do not realize that you are wretched, pitiful, poor, blind and naked.

Please pray that more people here in North America will turn back to the God many have abandoned.
---Donna66 on 12/5/08


I am writing from Nigeria. I have come across so many prosperity preachers.I will say it is not in our place to critisize other christians. I was in the United States recently and was taken aback at the level of moral decadence. shouldn't western christians be more focused on salvation of souls, praying 4 their leaders rather than tearing down ourselves before unbelievers? How will we be respected going on like this?
---austin on 12/5/08


Andrea. Inspiring response.

Money today is called "fiat" money. The process of this transmutation is historical. Taking something of very little worth or value and creating it into great value and worth by a sort of "let it be done" proclamation.

Money solves many problems they say. But using or praying for something worthless other than by authority to declare it so seems empty. There must be something greater:
---jhonny on 1/11/08




Nicolette you make good points. One I slowly reckon with is that money is inanimate with no spirit and soul.
Money is protrayed as the antithetical to God. It is personified against God.
God or mammon is put forward as the choice.
What da ya think?
---jhonny on 1/11/08


Pastor are warned about using the gospel for gain. If they have huge mansions and jets and airfields in their backyards they are nothing more then ponzy scams.
The word does not come back void - that is true. So to speak His word (which is not about you getting rich) to speak His word is power in the Holy Ghost rich!!
---Andrea on 1/11/08


Nicolette. I had to think about it, but you are right on all counts.
Mammon: Gk.-adekos.
Mammon is about custom and justice and rights. Mammon is the beginning of these courruptions.
Mammon produces fraudulence. This has intensified.
2Th 2:11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: (Intentional deceitful precepts of fraudulence,-falsehood in the principles of idolatry.)
Money is a master.
Luk 16:13 No servant can serve two masters:
---jhonny on 1/10/08


Jhonny, money is a tool. It is not corrupt in and of itself. It cannot be since it has no spirit and no soul. It cannot think therefore it cannot choose. It is as you say, the person in whose hand the money lies has the power to choose to be corrupt and use money to that end. It is the PERSON that is unrighteous. Not the money. Even God has used it as a tool and still does. The fact is, some can be trusted with it and some cannot resist the temptation of self-indulgence.
---Nicolette on 1/10/08


Dare I say this?

It tends to be the person who cannot resist the temptation of self-indulgence or the person who does not have money or the person who does not understand how to use money that claims that MONEY is evil and unrighteous. The ACT of SERVING or WORSHIPPING or LUSTING after money is evil. Only a person can choose to act in such ways. Money is inanimate.
---Nicolette on 1/10/08




Nicolette honesty is a beautiful virtue. Thank you.
---jhonny on 1/9/08


David. I appreciate your honesty. "And I say unto you, Make to yourselves friends of the mammon of unrighteousness, that, when ye fail, they may receive you into everlasting habitations."
It is not only you that doesn't understand v9. Just about every church in town doesn't understand it. Which is why the prosperity camp can use it to their advantage. Money is totally corrupted (unrighteous) and completely violated by the blood of innocents, injustice, deceit and fraud.
---jhonny on 1/8/08


Is it possible that God chooses specific people to be financial stewards? I grew up poor which led me to God. The closer I got the more wisdom I received on how to use money and make it grow. Many people were provided for through it. The more faithful I proved, the more I received until there was more than I knew what to do with. But I confess that it is a CONSTANT temptation. EVERYDAY, I have to focus on the Kingdom and it's purposes otherwise I will loose perspective and my stewardship. It's not fun.
---Nicolette on 1/7/08


jhonny:
You mention an interesting verse. I kind of take Luke 16:9 as more a quip or Jesus laughing. Certainly friends gotten using unrighteous mammon will not give us eternal dwelling places? Not really sure what the verse infers.
---David on 1/5/08


One preacher calls the so-called word of faith movement and their false prosperity message "Cultish Faith". That pretty well says it for me.
---Susie on 1/4/08


David.
Mat 6:24 No man can serve two masters:... Ye cannot serve God and mammon.

Why not? Mammon is the alignment to goddess worship.

Scripture used for promotion:
Luk 16:9 "And I say unto you, Make to yourselves friends of the mammon of unrighteousness, that, when ye fail, they may receive you into everlasting habitations."

Selah
---jhonny on 1/4/08


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I think too much is made out of the prosperity message by some preachers. I tend to believe that some people are blessed with a good inheritance or are given a good education or an already established business. Others are very smart or financially adept. It is probably less to do with doctrine or "buying" God and more to do with other factors.
---David on 1/3/08


Thanks for scriptures mike. Many I needed to hear.
Rom 10:17 "So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.
Dilligence needs to be distinguished from the "get-rich dance" to the music of "Make Me Rich People"
One truly sent by God would turn people from their lazy sluggish ways and return to dilligence, and to resist sleepiness. Rom 13:11 And that, knowing the time, that now it is high time to awake out of sleep: for now is our salvation...
---jhonny on 1/3/08


what is wrong about prosperity messages is pastors & tele evangelist exploit & pervert malachi. their teachings are based on 'tithe giving' & obedience & god will make you rich. and shove the bible down your throat
What about skills, hard work & self confidence in doing your work. pastors have a 'tithe mentality' bec. they do not work, so their belief system is based on 'tithe giving'. they are promoting laziness, ignorance, neglect & a loser. it is close to socialism.
---mike on 1/3/08


PT 5 - PROVERBS - talk about wealth
28:19 he who works his land will have ABUNDANT FOOD, BUT ONE WHO CHASES FANTASIES WILL HAVE HIS POVERTY
30:25 - ANTS ARE CREATURES OF LITTLE STRENGTH YET THEY STORE UP THEIR FOOD IN THE SUMMER!
---mike on 1/3/08


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pt 6 - these are BIBLICAL verses that talk about wealth, & those people who are against it are poor & broke. they want others to be miserable as they are. that is why they are 'judgemental' about prosperity messages. and as I have observed I do not see pastors & tele evangelist poor,THEY DO NOT DENY THEMSELVES, they are lovers of money & hypocrites bec. they do not want to be a slave of poverty, they choose to be rich so nobody can tell what to do.
---mike on 1/3/08


pt7 - there is nothing wrong with being financially abundant as long as the person worked hard for it legal, honest,means. unlike some people who use god for profit, perverts & exploits malachi. or lies that tithes will be use for ministries or help the poor but buys luxury cars, multi million homes & lear jets.
---mike on 1/3/08


pt 8 - or a pastor who will say that give your $1000 seed money & you will be a millionaire.
---mike on 1/3/08


PT1 - what about proverbs? is proverbs a lie when
prov. 10:4 lazy hands make a man poor, but diligent hands bring WEALTH
10:15 the wealth of the rich is their fortified city, but poverty is ruin of the poor
12:11 he who works his land will have abundant food but he who chases fantasies lack judgement
12:24 diligent hands will rule, but laziness ends in slave labor
13:4 the sluggard craves & gets nothing
but the desires of the diligent are fully satisfied
---mike on 1/3/08


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Pt 2 - Proverbs
14:23 all HARD WORK brings profit
but mere talk leads only to poverty
(that is why christian are struggling bec. they are experts in 'quoting' verse)
19:4 wealth brings many friends
but a poor man's FRIEND DESERTS him
19:8 a poor man is shunned by his relative
how much more his 'friends' avoid him though he pursues them with pleading they are nowhere to be found
---mike on 1/3/08


pt3 - PROVERBS - talks about wealth
20:4 a sluggard does not plow in season so at harvest time he looks but finds nothing
20:13 do not love sleep or you will grow poor, stay awake & you will have food to spare
21:5 the plans of the diligent leads to profit as surely as haste leads to poverty
22:7 THE RICH RULE OVER THE POOR, & THE BORROWER IS THE SERVANT OF THE LENDER
---mike on 1/3/08


Pt 4 - PRoverbs - talks about wealth
22:29 do you see a man skilled in his work?
HE WILL SERVE BEFORE KINGS, HE WILL NOT SERVER BEFORE OBSCURE MEN
24:30 I went past the field of the sluggard past the vineyard who lacks judgement, thorns had come up everywhere the ground was covered with weeds & the stonewall was in ruin
24:33 A LITTLE SLEEP, SLUMBER - POVERTY WILL COME TO YOU LIKE A BANDIT & SCARCITY LIKE AN ARMED MAN!
---mike on 1/3/08


#1 What Is The Strong Delusion?

This is what God sends, not satan. To help people in their personal process of believing lies. The fraudulence of delusion is a choice they have made. Solution is simple - love the truth.
I am still shocked at the unacceptable behaviour people are willing to tolerate from their religious leaders and organizations. It is definitely idolatry.
---jhonny on 12/27/07


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#2 Strong Delusion:
>Earmarks.
These are devices that seem to make those working the double deal of disinformation and dirt very wealthy. How people love a man who can juggle a snow job.
Those who deliver the lies need be the masters of camouflage. Lurking in wait to spring their snag all the while concealing the pitfalls of the delusion trick. How patiently they wait, in their shelter waylaying their ambush. This is the double cross, or the judas kiss. The treachery of the sell-outs.
---jhonny on 12/27/07


#3 Stong Delusion:
The treachery.
The perfidious dishonesty of duplicity. Oh yes, how they admire these men. Their falseness sheltered and concealed. Fakers and braggers, using a facade of subterfuge and false colors to disguise the fraudulent front to work the trap. The trap is a boon of advantage. The farce is a travesty, but they have become rich by the baloney and banana oil. Sure these imposters know the hustle, but people love the jive and the fast shuffle of get-rich rock and roll.
---jhonny on 12/28/07


#4 Strong Delusion: Fini
How people love the hoax and swindle of these shadey dealers. It's a great racket when people love being ripped off. So the pretence of the big show, and the put on for the decoy is spoofed into the fast lane. And the fruits of these men are clearly seen. Overly subtle, Evasive equivocation, spurious sophistry, specious chicanery, etc. Their disloyalty always has give-aways, because they are sell-outs, as are those who follow them.
---jhonny on 12/28/07


If televangelists had the "life" more abundantly in the "riches and wisdom of Christ" who hath "blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ" they just might be worth watching.
Since by their fruits they appear to love money and this present evil world and teach others to do likewise, Christians who are true babes in Christ would be better off to stop watching.
Frank
---Frank on 12/27/07


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is there something wrong with prosperity messages? proverbs talks about the advantages of having abundance. it talks about the difference bet. rich & poor. that is why I see pastors & tele evangelist who choose to be 'abundant.'
---mike on 12/26/07


May I be "frank" with you, I'm sure those compliments will be short lived.
---lovable_linda on 12/24/07


Lov_linda, I really liked reading your comments here. AMEN.
---Kella3336 on 12/24/07


I find it interesting that business people know that by giving you receive more. But christians have real hard time with the concept. Not that you give to one person, but to causes, or even hosted events, parties etc. Kinda like Christ feeding the 5000? No obligation giving, helping others feel good about themselves. It pays big.
---dan on 12/24/07


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Yes~
because it is not one taught by Christ. Men make themselves equal to the apostles yet, make themselves rich from the store house of God set up for his purpose and not the wealth of his servants. Paul was certainly not rich in earthly appearance/mansions/wealth but was beaten, in perils often, in the seas, in prison etc for what he believed. The only time these preachers go to jail is for fraudulant practices from of their own people/Churches not through preaching the gospel
---Carla5754 on 12/24/07


Not all prosperity teachers are on TV or radio.Some are starting out just like any other preacher and they will assist you.If they don't thet won't get anywhere.
---shirley on 12/23/07


IF YOU PUT money above GOD,THAT IS YOUR god.
If you put GOD before money,money cannot rule you.Its not the money,its the love of money that is the root of all evil.
YOU CAN BE DRAWN AWAY FROM GOD,BY MANY DESTRACTIONS.EVEN to lhe losing of your soul.
---Jack_8773 on 12/22/07


#7
They have taught them to go out into all the world and fill their churches so they don't have to work. They tell the flocks what they want to hear and remove the fear of God from them! Little do they know that he who holds a wisdom greater than Solomon's will take them in their own craftiness. The Everlasting Light to the house of Israel will not be mocked! As David, he knows he is King and doeasn't need to say anything now as they mock his servants!
---Frank on 12/22/07


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#8
He need not say anything. One day they shall put off the tabernacle and stand at his left! Right in front of Jehovah! His Father! Then they shall see God face to face and he will answer them to their face! They won't be wearing their nice suits then nor waving their Bibles and spouting blasphemous heresy! They will answer to the King, Eternal, Immortal! Invisible! The only wise God who has given his Son all glory and honour! World without end!
---Frank on 12/22/07


#9
Prosperity?
We should be rich in good works which can only come by the Holy Ghost! We should set our affections on high where Christ is seated at the right hand of God Almighty! We should be risen with him and count his word greater than thousands of gold and silver! Our desires should be towards our husband and in him alone should we be pleased regardless of what we get in this life! Good, or evil! Blessed be the name of the Lord!
---Frank on 12/22/07


God who is rich in mercy hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in Christ Jesus our Lord! But some aren't content to have the salvation that came into Zacheus' house visit them in the days of their youth! They want more than salvation through faith in the blood of the Lamb that was shed at Calvary! They don't believe that the Pearl of Great Price was the only atoning sacrifice that could ever please God! They ignore the word says behold I leave in the midst of thee a poor and aflicted people.
---Frank on 12/22/07


#2
They don't believe that the servant is not greater than his Master. He who was stricken, smitten of God and aflicted! he who thought it not robbery to be equal to God yet made himself of no reputation taking on himself the form of a servant. he who became poor so that we might be rich in faith! He who alone has the riches of wisdom and knowledge to disperse as he pleases!Instead they wish to boast against the branches.
---Frank on 12/22/07


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#3
Rather than admit that when the leper said "if thou wilt, thou can clease me" and Jesus said "I will" to him who fell at his feet and humbled himself they think that their proud words will save them. They fulfill the word that says "the wicked say with our own mouth will we prevail." They think that their money comes from Jesus who is an example to the flock of God! They know not that the devil has dangled the goods of this world before them!
---Frank on 12/22/07


#4
They have heaped up teachers, having itching ears to tell them that they can have it all in this life and don't even see that Epaphroditus was sick nigh unto death and that Peter had often infirmities! Men that had hazarded their lives for the word of God were sent and not those who came out of seminary with no spiritual insight which comes only by the Holy Ghost! They see not the spirit of err in what they believe!
---Frank on 12/22/07


#5
They sit in front of their televisions and don't even see that the messenger only wants their money. Meanwhile in the small sanctuaries the light of the moon shines as the light of the sun and the light of the sun shines with the strength of seven days! In those sanctuaries light shines in the houses of Israel while darkness plagues the unbelieving Egyptians and their heretical blasphemous television preachers!
---Frank on 12/22/07


#6
As they sit and hear words of worldly gain they should run from they know not that those who preach have brought up a generation that knows not Joseph! All they know is the lusts and wealth of this world! They think that gold and silver will save them and don't even see that the amount of gold Solomon received was six thousand, three score and six talents! Their bodies, souls and spirits purchased by the devil and marked! Their very offering a stench in the nostrils of God!
---Frank on 12/22/07


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Will the prosperity teacher come to the hospital in your time of need?
Will they give you a ride to the hospital or the clinic for a checkup?
Will they stand at your bedside, hold your hand and pray with you, comforting you like your local pastor can?
---lovable_linda on 12/21/07


Will the prosperity teacher that you've sowed all of your harvest firstfruits to, be able to conduct your loved ones marriage or funeral, or bolster you up through a loveless marriage?
Like multilevel marketing and pyramid schemes, only one person getting rich and it's the PT at the top.
The PT cruiser will cruise through your finances and have an expensive outhouse to boot.
---lovable_linda on 12/21/07


"Not that I speak in regard to need, for I have learned in whatever state I am, to be content: I know how to be abased, and I know how to abound. Everywhere and in all things I have learned both to be full and to be hungry, both to abound and to suffer need." (Philippians 4:11-12)

So Paul's prosperity was how he could be content unconditionally...while full or empty, abounding or suffering need. THIS prosperity message is not blaspemy.
---Bill_bila5659 on 12/21/07


First of all, as long as your giving your tithing at church then the Lord will give you what you have need of. Remember, he said what we need not what we want. Ministers should not sell the Word of God,that is supposed to be free. They are breaking scripture in doing that. It is more blessed to give than to recieve, thats where the prosperity comes in at. Don't forget when your blessed with increase, GIVE GIVE GIVE.
---faith on 12/21/07


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Godliness with contentment is great gain.
Having food and raiment let us therewith be content.
God knows our needs before we ask.
The word also says that our soul may prosper.
We should worry more about having our soul prosper while being content in Christ and less about our purse or wallet.
If ye be risen with Christ seek those things which are above where Christ is seated at the right hand of God.
He has blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ.
Frank
---Frank on 12/20/07


Kai...umm i'm not sure if you know but warren does like opposite tithe of giving 90% and keeping 10% and doesnt take money from congregation (last i heard), not sure what hes doing now but you may want to get your facts straight before you say somethings
---mark_B. on 12/20/07


Loveable linda...You have heard the truth here many times and refuse to listen. Instead, you prefer to imagine things. Of course, since you say you prefer the truth, you surely will not take this statement personal.
---Susie on 12/20/07


Prosperity is not just money.I believe GOD will give you as much of it as HE can trust you with.I do believe firmly that if you are a tithe payer you will have food,clothing,shelter and good health.
---shirley on 12/20/07


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No I do not. I believe those type of statements are made out of fear and a lack of biblical understanding. Religion teaches that you have to be poor and down and out, but the Word of God says otherwise. Read 3 John 1:2. Read Malachi 3:10-12. How can we as Christians be a blessing or an example to others if we're barely able to pay our bills or put food on the table? How is that going to persuade anyone to become a Christian?
---Troy on 12/20/07


Grasp your wallet when you hear a preacher start his message with a title such as "Seven steps to prosperity." You can be sure six of those steps involve giving money with the FALSE PROMISE that the more you give the more you will be blessed. They will bleed you dry and dump you in your time of need. The "prosperity message" is a false Gospel and many fall into this "brainwashing." Very sad. God Bless!
---Cynthia on 12/20/07


Do you and catherine share the same brain, Susie?

I can handle the truth. I prefer the Truth.
---lovable_linda on 12/19/07


Since you use snidely whiplash tactics, how does it work for you to mock other roles that you use for a platform to speak from?

Do you not find that deceptive?
---lovable_linda on 12/19/07

The comment to which you are referring was made to Catherine and she is aware of the meaning. Jesus said, "God is a Spirit//" No one can go to God "face to face" as Catherine suggested. The only "role" I use is myself. This is not a game. It's spiritual warfare.
---Susie on 12/19/07


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I believe what Donna is talking about is the true prosperity message found in the scriptures, but the one Mima is talking about is the truth distorted. While Abraham was a wealthy man, I don't think God intended for us to reach for that. I believe He wants to bless us with wealth if we can be trusted with it, but too many times greed takes over. We must store our treasures in heaven. God can take care of the other.
---kady on 12/19/07


Susie, I agree with you about the prosperity message.

Since you use snidely whiplash tactics, how does it work for you to mock other roles that you use for a platform to speak from?

Do you not find that deceptive?
---lovable_linda on 12/19/07


Not always. You know I get a lot of my learning not from the word of God but from God face to face, my friend. He lives. God calls some to preach such messages.
---catherine on 12/18/07

Wow! What does God look like Catherine? Does he look like that man hanging on your walls?
---Susie on 12/19/07


The problem is that the so-called prosperity preachers are not preaching a spiritual prosperity. They are lining their pockets by preaching a financial gospel and nothing more. But, this is all beginning to fall apart. The Bible says that judgment will start in the house of God. It has begun!!!!
---Susie on 12/19/07


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The closer I get to God, the more I realise that the greatest blessing God can give me (post salvation) is His mentality. By thinking the way He does and having the wisdom to apply His principles effectively, I am "empowered to prosper". That is what the word "blessing" means - to be EMPOWERED to prosper. It is not just about obedience to the Word but also the active and strategic implementation of God's principles in everything we do. Preaching anything else would be mis-leading.
---Nicolette on 12/19/07


to donna - really? then if prosperity has nothing to do with money, then why do pastors, tele evangelist have houses, luxury cars & some have jets? didn't they purchase that with money that they did not worked for? money is the fruits of your hard labor & a medium of exchange. proverbs said that hard work & diligence will bring profit while laziness will end up in poverty, which these pastors are not choosing to be.
---mike on 12/18/07


The prosperity gospel as taught by many televangelists these days is definitely a false message. However, what Donna has to say on the subject is absolutely correct. The bible does use the word prosper but it is not speaking of money, houses, big cars etc. as some on T.V. would have us believe. The wealthy preachers are actually not very prosperous at all, in biblical terms. They are very poor indeed.
---RitaH on 12/18/07


Mima, I believe you are old enough in the Lord to know the prosperity message has nothing to do with money. "Beloved I wish above all that thou mayest prosper and be in good health even as thy soul prospers." It's all about prospering in Peace, Joy, Love, Kindness, self-control, etc., "Seek ye first the Kingdom of God." The prosperity message is not about money. I think you knew that already.
---Donna on 12/18/07


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If the prosperity message were not a false teaching, then you could give ANYONE $1000 and you would receive back 100 fold as some false prophets teach. You wouldn't have to send it to those false prophets. Notice that they only want you to send THEM the money.
---Susie on 12/18/07


Some aspects of the prosperity message are out of line but some are not. To say that the entire message is blasphemy is just as much blasphemy. God did say he would give prosperity to his people so there is credibility to the message, just not to the extent that some preach.
---john on 12/18/07


Not always. You know I get a lot of my learning not from the word of God but from God face to face, my friend. He lives. God calls some to preach such messages.
---catherine on 12/18/07


I believe the prosperity message as taught by someone like Kenneth Copeland is a form of deceptive heresy. Their method called" name it claim it" has some validity, and is effectively usable when what you are naming and claiming he is in God's will. For example claiming someone's salvation, I believe is scriptural. But only because it is not God's will that any should perish.
---Mima on 12/18/07


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pt3- what is wrong of prosperity messages is pastors, tele evangelist like mike murdock will tell you to give $1,000 as seed money & you will bec. millionaires. these people are lazy & they pervert & exploit the bible to get rich. they use god for profit. THEY SHOULD GET A JOB!
---kai on 12/18/07


pt4 - mal 2:7-8 for the lips of the priest preserve knowledge & from his mouth men should seek INSTRUCTIONs bec he is the messenger of god but YOU HAVE TURNED FROM THE WAY & BY YOUR TEACHINGS HAVE CAUSED MANY TO STUMBLE.
IS 56:11 they are shephards who lack understanding they all turn to their own way each seeks his own gain.
---kai on 12/18/07


pt5- those who oppose prosperity are probably broke, they are miserable so they want others to be miserable as they are.
---kai on 12/18/07


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