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Are Christmas Trees Pagan

I find it so ironic that these Christians claim it is o.k. to have Christmas trees because it is what is in their hearts that matters, but obviously if they are fighting and defending then obviously those trees are in their hearts as it was with the pagans. Are Christmas trees pagan?

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My main celebration in Christmas is the anniversary of the birth of Our Lord. My wife and I go to church, we put a Christmas crib, we decorate the living room with nice colorful paper and a Christmas tree, I put up a stocking which I fill with gifts for her and I tell her Santa brought it for her - of course she knows who put it there - but it adds fun.

There is nothing wrong with Christmas trees as long as they do not become the main item in the celebration.

I find it wrong that some object to even a Christmas Crib.
---Paul2 on 1/12/09


Christmas trees as we understand them are a modern phenomenon, of the last couple of hundred years or so. Hardly a pagan phenomenon!

If there is a danger to Christmas trees, I'd suggest it is the temptation to put decorations, gifts and secular business at the heart of Christmas. I suggest that they are, in themselves, of no harm - just remember what Christmas is really all about!
---Graham on 1/12/09


Andrea Maria,

Herod was ruthless. He asked, "when the star had appeared." It would have taken some time for the Magi to come from Babylon. The conjunction which I'm referring to took place in 7 B.C. Jesus was probably born in 6/5 B.C. If Herod added a few months to be sure of killing the child then 2 years or less would be about right.

The conjunction might have been in God's plan or it might have been coincidental. The fact that the Magi had the prophesy of Daniel which predicted the time of the Savior's birth is far more significant. Divination as a practice was condemned in the Old Covenant but I'm open to the possibility that God might have used it in this case to provide for his Son.
---Naulon on 1/10/09


Naulon - "...there is room for both..."

I don't see the Word instructing us to make "room for both". What has light to do with darkness? Tragically Lot's wife, Sampson, the rich young ruler made "room for both".
Santa in a Christian's life is a slippery slope. Once we believe this world offers anything good (or benign) we open ourselves up to all sorts of comprised thinking. You know the expression, "give the devil an inch, he'll take a mile".
God repeatedly taught His followers to pursue Purity, Righteousness, Faithfulness, Obedience, and Holiness. These are not words that allow "room for both".
---AG on 1/10/09


AG

Smoking would not be an issue for me except when it bothers others with smoke. A person is free to take risks with his life. I personally don't think it's a healthy lifestyle but neither is sugar and Big Mac's to which I'm attached to.

Murder is in a list of items Paul says would bar a person from the kingdom of God and I know of no culture where it isn't a serious crime. Not a cultural issue.

I see your point about Santa Claus etc. I agree with you that a fascination with these things above the religious aspects of the holiday are counter productive to the message of the gospel. But there is room for both as long as we focus most of our attention on the Savior's arrival and atonement, an opportunity for the gospel.
---Naulon on 1/8/09




Naulon,
Satan is 'King of the Air' also referred to as
Ephesians 2:2 - in which you once walked, following the course of this world, following the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that is now at work in the sons of disobedience.
Why did Herod have to play it safe? Two years is a long time.
The wise men were astrologers, and Herod wanted them to track the star for him. Why does God hate astrologers, or those associated with divination? Matthew2:7-8, Deuteronomy 18:10-12
---Andrea_Maria on 1/6/09


Naulon,
You can legalistically do or not do anything. If you feed the hungry begrudgingly or in an attempt to earn a ticket to heaven, then you're being legalistic. Legalism is a heart issue.
...
I guess you can put my decision to not erect a Christmas Tree in the category of "culture". Would my decision to abstain from smoking or murder also be "culture"? I made my choices based on my current understanding of His Word. We all work out our own salvation. We study the Word and make lifestyle decisions based on our understanding.

Part 1
---AG on 1/6/09


Naulon,
It's my observation that the vast majority of American Christians are addicted to Christmas Trees, Santa Claus, etc and are unable/unwilling to break from them. IMHO, addiction to anything but God is a form of idol worship.
...
I agree that we should not erect "unnecessary barriers to his saving gospel". This is another reason I choose not to erect a Christmas Tree. It confuses the gospel message. If we try evangelizing an (educated) Atheist, Satanist, Muslim or Jew with a Christmas Tree, Gold & Silver garlands, Mistletoe, Santa Claus and Eggnog sitting in your living room. They will only see hypocrisy.

Part 2
---AG on 1/6/09


AG,

Explain how a person feeding the hungry or abstaining from tobacco can be construed to be "legalism". You've lost me.

If abstention from Christmas trees is purely your opinion, then you've relegated it to the category of "culture". We are then free to practice it if we choose. The issue is settled. I had the feeling you were calling the practice "sinful". If I was mistaken, please accept my apology.

If the most important question is, "How can I most please God?" One of the answers would be to do our best not to put unnecessary barriers to his saving gospel. That's all I'm arguing for.
---Naulon on 1/6/09


Good Intentions vs. God's Istructions

I find that many evangelical Christians desire to be culturally relevant with the good intentions of reaching the "lost sheep of Israel".
However there are boundaries on these good intentions. For example, if I desired to reach a community of crackheads I would not smoke crack with them no matter how much trust I would gain by doing so. It would not be pleasing to God.
God can reach the lost in spite us. He has an amazing ability to break through cultural barriers.
Erecting Christmas Trees may make us culturally relevant, but the more important question is, "how can I most please God?"
---AG on 1/5/09




Naulon - "Sounds like you wouldn't eat with "sinners" or unwashed hands, not do good on the Sabbath and force fasting at proper times."

I try to wash my hands before I eat. I assume Christ would also. And why wouldn't I eat with sinners? Who else is there to eat with? As I said earlier, "...I dare not be anyone's judge but my own. I am here to 'reason together' with fellow brothers and sisters...".
I have no desire to force my understanding of the Word on anyone any more than Paul did. I'm only interested in exchanging perspectives for mutual benefit.
The discussion of the Christmas Tree's role in our lives stems from a desire to have a deeper understanding of what God expects of His children.
---AG on 1/5/09


Naulon - "Legalism is: Forcing one's culture on another person as canon gospel."

That is a fairly accurate definition of legalism. At the same time, if someone demonstrates the fruit of the spirit of "goodness" by feeding the hungry or if someone demonstrates "self-control" by abstaining from tobacco, you could accuse them of legalism. Of course without looking into their hearts you can't truly know if the actions stem from loving obedience to the one who saved their soul or from ego-centric legalism. But the accusation can be made, just like when you label Christmas Tree abstinence "legalism".
---AG on 1/5/09


AG,

You said: "Any act of obedience to God's Word could be labeled "legalistic".

Absolutely not! Are the fruit of the spirit legalistic? Is loving your neighbor as yourself legalistic? These are the highest ethical ideals in Christianity, but there is NO LAW against them.

Legalism is: Forcing one's culture on another person as canon gospel.
It's wrong, it's unloving, it's egocentric and it's not like Christ.

No church worships Christmas trees, yule logs, Santa claus, presents, nog, elves or mistletoe. In fact you won't find most of these things even mentioned in church. Forcing your opinion about things that have become "benign culture" is legalism.
---Naulon on 1/4/09


AG: "They have since forgotten the origins of these traditions."

Origins don't matter anymore. The heart does. You would rather condemn Christmas trees and put up legalistic stumbling blocks for unbelievers. Legalism drives people away. Thus unbelievers brand Christians as "self righteous hypocrites".

Sounds like you wouldn't eat with "sinners" or unwashed hands, not do good on the Sabbath and force fasting at proper times. That kind of legalism crucified Christ. I wouldn't want a legalistic elder in my church because the church wouldn't grow under his leadership.

It's not about "rules". It's about priorities. Having Christmas trees does not compromise the gospel, legalism does.
---Naulon on 1/4/09


Christmas Trees, Yule logs, Santa Claus, Presents, Nog, Elves, Mistletoe...these are all non-biblical traditions that were derived from idol worship. Christians have assimilated these traditions into their worship of the one true God and His Son. They have since forgotten the origins of these traditions, but has God forgotten? Doubt it.
And while Christians claim no idol worship by the practice of these traditions, they cannot break from them. Christmas and all it's pagan accompaniments are an addiction. And any addiction be it cigarettes, alcohol or crack is by definition an idol.
---AG on 1/3/09


"When in Rome to do as the Romans" to save them, yea, but who are you saving by having a Christmas tree?

AMEN

funny how those who cherish their man made traditions HATE Gods Word yet profess Christ on their lips

2 Thessalonians 2:15
Therefore, brethren, stand fast, and hold the traditions which ye have been taught, whether by word, or our epistle.

KNOWING christ-mass nowhere commanded given as an example or celebrated by Christ or Apostles xmas worshippers STAND DEFIANT to Gods Word in 2Thess 2:15 so they may continue in their man made tradtions while professing Christ on their lips (Mark 7:7-9, Matt 15:8) reasoning away Gods Holy Word "legalistic" to serve their antichrist xmas tradition
---Rhonda on 1/3/09


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Naulon - "being legalistic about it may prevent someone from considering the gospel"

Any act of obedience to God's Word could be labeled "legalistic".
It is true that as we work out our salvation with fear and trembling we will draw lines in the sand that will not appeal to some. That's OK. Many people did not accept Christ because the "extreme" stance he took on issues.
---AG on 1/2/09


Andrea Maria,

The Christmas tree doesn't save people, but being legalistic about it may prevent someone from considering the gospel.

2 years corresponds to the time the star first appeared. It's concievable Herod added a year or two just to make sure.

Jesus had to have been newborn or only a few months old when the Magi came. Joseph went to Bethlehem to be registered, not to live. He would have headed for home as soon as the child and his mother were fit to travel.

I think the star was Jupiter which entered Israel's constellation of the ram, a sign that a king was born. They had Daniel's prophesy and knew the time was right so the came to seek him out.

The king of the air is Michael Jordan.
---Naulon on 1/2/09


"When in Rome to do as the Romans" to save them, yea, but who are you saving by having a Christmas tree?

When you celebrate Christmas, do you recall that Herod had all of those children killed?

The weather was also mild, not wintertime.

Herod's decree went out to children up to 2 years old because Jesus was already born.

Why was the star guiding the wise men to Jesus if they were sent by Herod? And who is the "King of the Air"?
---Andrea_Maria on 1/1/09


Paul's message cannot stand alone. To qualify as scripture his words had to agree w/ the law, the prophets and the writings. It is only thru the rest of scripture that we understand what Paul is saying.
1 Cor 9 is not a "when in Rome" message. That wouldn't lineup w/ what we learned from Shadrach, Meshach & Abednego. Paul is not saying "when I was with idolaters, I became an idolater". Paul did not sleep w/ temple prostitutes just because it was culturally appropriate.
Paul knew he only had to submit to God. However he willingly submitted to the laws of men so long as it wasn't sinful to do so.

Sidenote: It's semi-interesting that parts of the 1 Cor 9 passage are missing in some ancient manuscripts.
---AG on 12/31/08


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AG,

Paul gave a "when in Rome" sermon.

1 Corinthians 9:19-23 "Though I am free and belong to no man, I make myself a slave to everyone, to win as many as possible. To the Jews I became like a Jew, to win the Jews. To those under the law I became like one under the law (though I myself am not under the law), so as to win those under the law. To those not having the law I became like one not having the law (though I am not free from Gods law but am under Christs law), so as to win those not having the law. To the weak I became weak, to win the weak. I have become all things to all men so that by all possible means I might save some. I do all this for the sake of the gospel, that I may share in its blessings."
---Naulon on 12/31/08


You can rationalize your good intentions at the use of a tree for Christmas, but it is not having anything to do with Christ's birth- for what does this mean?
Jeremiah 10:2-4

Thus says the Lord: Learn not the way of the nations, nor be dismayed at the signs of the heavens because the nations are dismayed at them, for the customs of the peoples are vanity. A tree from the forest is cut down and worked with an axe by the hands of a craftsman. They decorate it with silver and gold, they fasten it with hammer and nails so that it cannot move.
---Andrea_Maria on 12/30/08


Naulon,
I feel the same way about the many pagan elements that are embedded in the Catholic church as I do the pagan symbolism in the protestant church. We are to separate ourselves from them.
Christ never gave a "when in Rome" sermon. He did give us Luke 12:49-53. Cross cultural environments are great opportunities to exemplify God's definition of a righteous life. To my knowledge the New Years's day services in Japan do not incorporate pagan idols, symbols or practices and are therefore perfectly acceptable.
I have no problem with Christians who elect to celebrate to have a birthday party for Christ...just the incorporation (and sugar-coating) of abominable pagan elements.
---AG on 12/30/08


What kind of tree do we use for Christmas trees? Does God not compare peoples to trees? Cedars and such...Maybe part of the tradition is pagan, But not all.
---Jim on 12/29/08


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AG

The Christmas tree is not a part of Christian worship. If it were, I would agree with you. It's benign culture. If you are serious about not mixing paganism in Christianity then take on the Catholic church's practice of worshipping Mary. Do you see the difference?

You speak as though you've never lived in a cross cultural situation. In Japan churches have New Year's day worship to give believers the opportunity to bring their friends to worship the living God rather than visit a pagan temple or shrine. Perhaps some day when Christianity has eliminated the pagan New Year's day temple practice in favor of going to the Church, someone like you will insist it is sin to worship on New Years day, citing it's history.
---Naulon on 12/29/08


Naulon - "the church...conformed Hebrew culture."

Let's define "Hebrew culture".
1 - There's the pure God-given system spoken of in Torah/Pentateuch.
2 - There's the corrupted rabbinic system used by Herod in Jesus day.

The zealots knew the rabbinic system was polluted & Herod was an illegitimate king empowered by Rome not God. This is why they followed John the Baptist & Christ who were calling God's people back to the God-given system...not the corrupt rabbinic system or a different system.

God isn't pleased when His people mix His system w/ the cultures of Babylon, Egypt, or Rome. I believe God's people would be liberated by identifying & removing pagan pollutants.
---AG on 12/29/08


Naulon - "please don't be judging us by your cultural standards..."

Have no fear, I am only interested in biblical standards. It's my goal to part with the "cultural standards" I once held dear. And I dare not be anyone's judge but my own. I am here to "reason together" with fellow brothers and sisters who are interested in sharing perspectives on issues facing the body. Sharing our perspectives helps us challenge our assumptions.
I hope that's why you're here as well.
---AG on 12/29/08


AG

There are many examples of how the church adopted or conformed Hebrew culture.

The Sabbath was replaced by meeting on the first day of the week. Circumcision of the heart replaced circumcision of the flesh. The 10 Commandments was replaced with "love your neighbor as yourself". They continued to meet in synagogues.

If we can't put up Christmas stars then we can't use any cultural innovations in the church at all. No drums, no guitars, no western dress, no powerpoint, no printed Bibles, the list is endless. Legalism is not what Christ intended.

If your conscience is bothered then you shouldn't have a Christmas tree. But please don't be judging us by your cultural standards, it's not loving.
---Naulon on 12/27/08


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Naulon,
Paul's words cannot contradict God's Word which he quoted to defend his own actions. Therefore 1 Cor 10:23 must be compatible with God's Word.
Here, I see Paul speaking to people who may have vegetarian convictions or those who abstained from alcohol, etc. Man may eat "less" than what is permitted by God (abstaining from clean things) but man is forbidden to eat "more" than God permits. While it's permissible for man to eat clean meat, drink wine or coffee, etc., they aren't necessarily beneficial (especially in excess). The distinction here is between what is "sin" and what is "permissible but not beneficial." Abstinence may be beneficial, but eating clean meat is not a sin.
---AG on 12/27/08


Naulon - "Christianity already won the war. We put the Bethlehem star on the top of the tree now."

Again I'm looking for biblical examples...I can find no biblical parallel to putting the star on top of the tree? To me, that's like drawing a halo around a pentagram and declaring it holy??? Only God can say what is pleasing to Him and from what I've read God always had His followers destroy any object remotely related to paganism. He was never pleased with their attempts to assimilate pagan practices.
---AG on 12/27/08


Ag,

When it comes to cultural things Paul says, "'Everything is permissible' - but not everything is beneficial."

If we lived in a culture where tree worship was a stumbling block then I would agree with you because we are told not to cause anyone to stumble. But certainly in America there is no issue here, nobodies conscience is hurt. Tree worship is dead. Has been for centuries. Let's celebrate in the freedom we have in Christ.

Read 1 Corinthians 10:23-33 and tell me what you think?
---Naulon on 12/27/08


Naulon - "Christianity already won the war. We put the Bethlehem star on the top of the tree now."

Again I'm looking for biblical examples...I can find no biblical parallel to putting the star on top of the tree? To me, that's like drawing a halo around a pentagram and declaring it holy??? Only God can say what is pleasing to Him and from what I've read God always had His followers destroy any object remotely related to paganism. He was never pleased with their attempts to assimilate pagan practices.
---Ag on 12/26/08


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The Christmas tree has been relegated from pagan worship to culture. Christianity already won the war. We put the Bethlehem star on the top of the tree now. Let's just enjoy it and focus on Christ.
---Naulon on 12/24/08


If Christ-mas tree is not an idol why do so many defend it and use it on the very same day as pagan sun gods bday claiming they are "honoring Christs birth"?

Why so reluctant to give it up?

What are you doing down on your knees when you place your gifts under it?

human reasoning and deception from the father of lies and god of this world (2Corin 4:4)...ironic one kneels to pray to God and kneel to honor their xmas tree with gifts for one another ...laying up their treasures on earth (Matt 6:19) initially giving them to tree which is a creation of Gods

Christ LIVES at right hand of God The Father and will RULE the earth as King when God RESTORES his Kingdom on Earth ...he is not dead or a baby in a manager
---Rhonda on 12/23/08


AG ... Your argument falls down, for The Christmas tree is not part of our worship of God
The tree is not unclean, but something that God made
You conform to the world when it comes to things like buying plane tickets
The Christas tree is not regarded as a god, let alone is it put ahead of God
The Christmas tree is neither an idol nor a graven image.
---alan_of_UK on 12/23/08


alan of UK - "You might not like the fact, or desire to remember the birth of Jesus in that way, but that does not change the fact."

You are correct alan. I don't like the fact that Christians worship Jesus the same way the Pagan's worship Tammuz. I did it for years until scripture started sinking in:
- I, the LORD your God, am a jealous God
- You must not worship the Lord your God the way the other nations worship their gods
- Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing
- And be not conformed to this world
- You shall have no other gods before me
- You shall not make for yourself an idol
- Make no graven images
- etc. etc. etc.
---AG on 12/23/08


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celebrations are the reason for decorations.
A Christmas tree is just a decoration.
There is nothing wrong with a decoration.

A Christmas tree is not an idol or a pagan idea in today's world view for Christians.

Let's see:
We have a nativity scene, A tree.Christian Christmas Carols, Christian Christmas cards,WE have school productions of the Nativity, we go to church an unite under one God for the greatest gift of all...
The Birth of our Lord Jesus Christ!

It's all about Him.
Let's keep focused on Jesus!
His whole life- Birth, life, death , resurrection.
---paul on 12/22/08


AG ... there is no biblical foundation for the statement: "Christians can travel by aircraft from America to Australia in a period of 12 hours"

It's a fact

Just as "a Christmas tree is for the remembrance of the birth of Jesus" is a fact

You might not like the fact, or desire to remember the birth of Jesus in that way, but that does not change the fact.
---alan_of_UK on 12/22/08


opalgal - "a Christmas tree is for the remembrance of the birth of Jesus"

There's no biblical foundation for your statement. We'll give an account for all of our actions at judgment. On that day the only acceptable justification for our actions will be obedience to Him. How can we say erecting a Christmas tree is in accordance with His Word when Jeremiah 10:2-4 clearly say's, "Thus says the LORD: Do not learn the way of the nations...For the customs of the peoples are false: a tree from the forest is cut down, and worked with an ax by the hands of an artisan, people deck it with silver and gold, they fasten it with hammer and nails so that it cannot move."
---AG on 12/20/08


Paul - "Just and empty meaningless holiday!"

There is no such thing as a meaningless holiday, brother. The ancient winter solstice festival is filled with abominable meanings that were designed as an affront on biblical truth.

It's like this, through the centuries Christians were surrounded by pagans celebrating the winter solstice. Some Christians decided they could join in the fun if they claimed it was in the name of Christ. The pagans didn't mind as long as the party kept rolling. The tradition was then handed down for a hundred years or so until Christians forgot how the party started and have now even allowed their "alternative meaning" to fade.
---AG on 12/18/08


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common sense tells us without His birth-Christ would not have been able to fulfill the other prophesies
******

common sense is simply human reasoning

those who use their "common sense" REASON away the pagan day of xmas because they follow lies given to them by men preferring traditions of men (Mark 7:5-8)

you can shout with all enthusiasm creating emotional frenzy about xmas but Christ is not there

it is by HIS Blood we are reconciled to God The father

it is by HIS DEATH that we will be given ETERNAL LIFE
---Rhonda on 12/17/08


In the eyes of God's Children, I believe AG that their would be no Christmas if Christ wasn't born.
I don't even know what winter Solstice is until I researched it. In my Christian private school we never heard of that either.
We only celebrated Christmas for Christ and had plays " the Nativity" the kids dressed and acted and sang of Christ.
So for me as for most Christians --No Christ = no Christmas.

Without him maybe it would be just "Happy winter" or what the atheists say " Happy Holidays" "Seasons greetings"
Merry winter? LOL.
Just and empty meaningless holiday!
---paul on 12/17/08


Paul,
Without Jesus there would still be a Christmas. It would just be called something else. The Dec 25th winter solstice festival preceded Jesus and continues to this day. It's the festival that celebrates the birth of the "immaculately conceived god-child", Tammuz. The festival is celebrated with evergreen decorations, excessive food & drink, gift giving and stories of elves/demons.
---AG on 12/17/08


Every God fearing Christian who studies the Bible clearly understands by His cross & resurrection Christ has set us free Rhonda.

common sense tells us without His birth-Christ would not have been able to fulfill the other prophesies.

His Birth was historic-deeply important.
It's what they-we were all waiting for.
The Messiah to come!

It was a wonderful night when Jesus was born!Be happy for His birth and rejoice that Christ was born!
It was the beginning of what was to come!
And could only come after Jesus was born!


Merry CHRIST-mas!
Jesus is the reason for the season.
For without Jesus,there would be NO Christmas Eve or Day.
It's all about Him.
Give Him the Glory and honor!
---paul on 12/17/08


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" Jeremiah 10:5,8,9,14. This is no description of a Christmas tree here, but an idol made out of wood
*******

No God did not spell out these verses to include xmas tree ...he was speaking to ancients of which LESSONS still APPLY today for those who are CALLED OUT from the world 2Corin 4:4

God does not SPELL everything out verbatim Christians OBEY in SPIRIT and TRUTH

Apostles FOLLOWED EXAMPLES FROM Christ

True Christians FOLLOW EXAMPLES Apostles

Apostles did not follow pagan traditions of men ...any tradition created by a man is for physical man

Gods instructions are to honor Christ at Passover - HIS DEATH

it is not through his BIRTH we receive ETERNAL LIFE - it is through HIS DEATH
---Rhonda on 12/16/08


Opalgal,
You're practicing replacement theology. What biblical example is there of using well known pagan symbols to worship God?
Would it be alright to have a 3-headed totem pole in the house if you reinterpreted it to represent the Father, Son & Holy Spirit? Or why don't we teach our children to draw pentagrams and tell them it only represents the 5 wounds of Christ?

Therefore "Come out from among them And be separate, says the Lord. Do not touch what is unclean, And I will receive you."
2 Corinthians 6:17
---AG on 12/16/08


a Christmas tree is for the remembrance of the birth of Jesus. ornaments and lights are put on it, presents are placed by parents for children, to remember the magi who brought gifts to the child Jesus.
- Jesus is worshiped, not the tree.
- -
a pagan tree is for the purpose of pagan rituals. who knows what it actually looked like? perhaps the branches were cut and the wood was shaped into some pagan idol. and then decorated with silver and gold as if given to that idol. and the people worshiped the carved tree.
- big difference.
---opalgal on 12/15/08


I wish the symbol of the Christmas tree was as benign as you want it to be.
I know it may seem inconvenient or trivial, but we are a called out people who are to be in this world NOT of it.
God had thousands (if not millions) killed for worshiping graven images. And all their graven images were to be destroyed. Many of God's people were killed (or at least suffered) for failing to purge themselves of pagan "stuff", whether or not they "believed" in it.
God spilled too much blood over this issue to not take it seriously. As for me, I intend to err on the side of caution.
---AG on 12/13/08


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decorating a tree is no more a sin than decorating the walls of your home with paint or other artistry, or decorating your body with clothing, etc. The unlearned corrupt scriptures onto supporting incorrect teachings: "They are upright as the palm tree, but speak not: they must needs be carried, because they cannot walk. The woodstock is a doctrine of vanities. Silver beaten into plates, and gold, the work of the workman, and of the hands of the metalsmith: blue and purple is their clothing. Every metalsmith is confounded by the graven image: for his molten image is falsehood, and no breath in them." Jeremiah 10:5,8,9,14. This is no description of a Christmas tree here, but an idol made out of wood.
---Eloy on 12/13/08


True Christians worship Christ in spiritand in truth (John 4:23-24)

There are so MANY LIES associated with pagan xmas day clearly Christ not there

father of lies swept away True Christ as easily as he beguiled Eve and as the god of this world is pleased so many worship another Jesus at xmas while they are mocking God who HATES all things heathen by calling evil good ...and in their empty hollow celebration they profess they worship Christ with their man made christ-mass

Matt 15:8-10 This people draweth nigh unto me with their mouth, and honoureth me with their lips, but their heart is far from me ...But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.
---Rhonda on 12/12/08


A Christmas Tree is a decoration, not a pagan god.
I just got my Tree up today! A star and Angel on top! Lighted up like the Star of Bethlehem...the angel representing the heavenly hosts that came down to earth to rejoice - celebrate the Lord's birth!

Whatever the tree was used for in ancient history has nothing to do with my Christmas tree. Everything points to God in heaven, His glory and honor alone!

Merry Christmas!
Keep the Christ in Christmas!
---paul on 12/12/08


You are not to have a Christmas tree. Read Jer:10 Be not as the heathen does that goes in the forrest & cuts down a tree & decorate it with silver & gold.
---James on 12/11/08


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No-not just pictures- images of Jesus as a baby ever!
< U are completely making this up. I challenge you to come and view the inside of my church
******

Paul

oh please challenge me?

you have simply become emotionally overcharged defending your system - is YOUR rcc building the ONLY rcc building now?

Christ as a baby is NOT CENTRAL theme in NT or ANY THEME

where did Christ or Apostles PREACH about Christs birth

salvation Gods Kingdom resurrection eternal life obeying God some of CENTRAL themes in NT - not "baby" Christ

Christ WILL NOT be RULING earth when he returns as a baby

HE LIVES at right hand of God NOT as a baby
---Rhonda on 12/9/08


In our society we put bows in our hair, color it 3 or 4 different colors hang shiny things in it, put rings and clips in our nose, ears, lips and other places, paint our finger nails all kinds of colors, smear other paint substance on our face, wear our pants so low we look like a piggy bank from the rear and then ask, "Is a Christmas tree Pagan?" You gotta be joking.
No, a Christmas tree is either wooden, metal or plastic. It is not pagan. Now that other stuff I described might be...... But, that ain't changed our mind about nothing.
---Elder on 12/6/08


.they worship Mary which is why Christ is always a baby in their pictures-forgetting it is Christs life and death that brings salvation to man ..important to rcc to make Christ a helpless infant
Rhonda U R joking right???

no, in the Catholic faith we honor all of Jesus's life..In fact that is what the Rosary is all about..His life.

no, in the RRC we acknowledge Jesus's Birth , life and resurrection all the time.

No-not just pictures- images of Jesus as a baby ever!
< U are completely making this up. I challenge you to come and view the inside of my church. We have Jesus as the baby- Jesus as crucified- and Jesus as resurrected!Christ was Born, Christ has died, Christ will come again. My King and yours!
---paul on 12/4/08


trav-Have you read/heard about the 144,000 that will have the seal of God put on there foreheads by an Angel of God?
They(144,000)are here(Earth) during the
7 yr reign of the AC, That's before the Returning and setting up of Yahshua's(Jesus) 1000 year reign with the Bride, the Beheaded & the 144,000 from the 12 tribes of Israel.

God "knows" who the children of Reuben & his brothers are, and It don't have to be "mapped"(Geographical Borders) out for man to see in a book for God to have his will fulfilled...

I hope this helps with what you wanted answered from me?
---Duane_Dudley_Martin on 12/3/08


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Thousands of Jews are turning to Yahshua(Jesus) every year, and when the number is sufficient to God, IT will Begin...
IT has Begun already!
---Duane_Dudley_Martin on 9/1/08

What about the rest of Israel? The other 12 parts? Reuben, Gad, and Asher, and Zebulun, Dan, and Naphtali and the other 6.

But when they persecute you in this city, flee ye into another: for verily I say unto you, Ye shall not have gone over the cities of Israel, till the Son of man be come.
Matthew 10:22-24

James, a servant of God and of the Lord Jesus Christ, to the twelve tribes which are scattered abroad, greeting.
James 1:1-3
---Trav on 12/3/08


YES!!!! Jer. 10:1-5!
---Aharon on 12/1/08


Christmas trees are no more pagan, then Christ pagan. The evergreen represents green life among the death of cold winter.
---Eloy on 11/30/08


Jessi .... really?
---alan_of_UK on 11/30/08


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Oh, Rhonda, just because you think the RCC worships Mary and the other lies you put on the RCC, it does not make it so.
*****


OH Nicole just because you believe the lies your system tells you doesn't make those lies Truth to Gods Word ...a lie is still a lie ...you are unable to see Gods Truth because per your catechism you submit your mind and will to another human

I am FREE to SERVE God Almighty ...Gods Truth is more powerful than the lies you serve

you may tell anyone you wish I lie you always do it does not make your lies about me truth

I speak of Gods Truth

You speak of the lies given to you by men

BIG difference

carry on....
---Rhonda on 11/30/08


Christmas trees are Pagan because it says so in the bible in Jeremiah.
---Jessi on 11/29/08


Thousands of Jews are turning to Yahshua(Jesus) every year, and when the number is sufficient to God, IT will Begin...
IT has Begun already!
---Duane_Dudley_Martin on 9/1/08


Elder,
As I recite the Hail Mary I listen to the Mediation of the life of Jesus.
Are you telling me not to listen to Jesus?

What truth? I begged for data from the Catechism saying we worship Mary or the Saints. None given.

You ask why not pray to Jesus as if I don't pray to Him. Tricky words.

Worship is the Most Holy Mass.
We worship, you have Bible Studies.
We give honor to God,
You are too busy wondering how others worship God.

How do you have the time? Are you the Prayer Police?
Why not use the time WORSHIPPING GOD?

God hears my prayers. This I know!
If God is displeased with my worshipping of Him, He will tell me.

Will you now settle now and leave me alone?
---Nicole on 8/31/08


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Nicole, your fight is not with the lies told about the RCC. Your big problem is when someone tells the truth about the RCC. You must not listen when you recite the Hail Mary. You must not hear the other prayers to the other "saints."
I remember, "Dear st Ives please come around, somethings been lost and can't be found." Why not just pray to Jesus.
What does Mary forgive? Nothing!
What do you call worship? Find that out and settle it and your mind will change.
---Elder on 8/30/08


Oh, Rhonda, just because you think the RCC worships Mary and the other lies you put on the RCC, it does not make it so.

When will you realize this?

Go ahead and trust the Jew who doesn't believe Jesus is the Messiah.
You can reject Jesus. You have free will.

Why don't you convert and be happy?
---Nicole on 8/30/08


To all who have disputed about our Saviours birth...please believe as you wish.You have a right to your beliefs.right or wrong.I absolutely REFUSE to take this up with you.
---Danelle on 8/30/08


SURPRISE!!! jewish historians are wrong, and Holy Scripture is right. The ground was parched, and the weather cold enough for Jesus to be cord-wrapped, which can only be in December and January. Christ was born during the tax season commanded by Caesar Augustus( Luke 2:1-7). "For he springs up as a suckling in his presence, and as a root out of parched ground...And she birthed the son of her, the first-born, and cord-wrapped him..." Isaiah 53:2, Luke 2:7. Yes, Scripture tells us exactly when Jesus was born, from the month, day, year, and even to the very hour.
---Eloy on 8/30/08


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nicole, According to the Holy Bible: "from December 24, from before a stone was laid upon a stone in the temple of YHWH, from this date and upward, from the day that the foundation of the Temple is laid, God will begin to bless his people," and the latter temple will be more glorious than the first temple. Jesus is the cornerstone, born in the 2nd hour of night between 7 and 8 oclock, on December 25, 5 B.C: Hag.2:15,18,19+ Isa.28:16+ Mt.21:42-44+ 26:20,21+ Lk.2:8-14.
---Eloy on 8/30/08


**
Let me understand you. You wants us to ask some Jewish historians when Jesus was born?
You do know they do not believe Jesus is the Messiah?

But, I can trust them about His birth date?

RIGHT!
**

would be trusting a jew quicker than anyone in rcc who have taken Gods Holy Word and wrapping up Christ into pagan practices ...remember it is God who condemns all things heathen

but rcc doesn't hear ...they worship Mary which is why Christ is always a baby in their pictures ...forgetting it is Christs life and death that brings salvation to man ...but it's important to rcc to make Christ a helpless infant in all their idolatry which is why they chose a date the same as the pagan sun god
---Rhonda on 8/29/08


Surprise!!! December 25 IS NOT Yeshuas'birthday.It is too cold to have sheep out in Judea in the month of December.
The ancient Jews,through careful record keeping,list His bd as September i6th,the year,399.Please take this up with the Jewish historians...NOT ME!
---Danelle on 8/29/08

No one said Jesus' birthdate is on the Dec 25th. So, what's with all the fuss?
The RCC picked the 25th as the date to celebrate Jesus' birthdate.
You are free to celebrate His birthday another day.

Let me understand you. You wants us to ask some Jewish historians when Jesus was born?
You do know they do not believe Jesus is the Messiah?

But, I can trust them about His birth date?

RIGHT!
---Nicole on 8/29/08


Not everyone that says Lord, Lord will enter into the Kingdom of God. But only those who does the will of my Father. For each of us God fearing, born-again believers, well, you had better point-blank ask God about tress at Christmas. I am not going to tell Christians not to have a tree at Christmas time, because each one of us must have our own right standing with God.
---catherine on 8/29/08


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Surprise!!! December 25 IS NOT Yeshuas'birthday.It is too cold to have sheep out in Judea in the month of December. The pagan Romans,in converting to Christianity,dragged thier pagan gods in.The wreath on the door,represents the sun,(Sol)to urge his return,and the rest of thier paganism is too lengthy to list here.I suggest that you Google the subject.The ancient Jews,through careful record keeping,list His bd as September i6th,the year,399.Please take this up with the Jewish historians...NOT ME!
---Danelle on 8/29/08


So does this all means that we should stop wearing a neck tie in church since it is not written and confirmed in the bible
tie in french is krawat is also another name for croate the story goes that the crawat was a part of these croat mercenaries and that the parisians came to copie their neck shash also cald crawat. any other customs we want to deal with? crawat is an original dress for assasins.
---Andy on 8/29/08


Emcee: Am I correct in assuming that you are Catholic? I didn't see any of several blogs I wrote on the subject of Paganism.I suppose now is the time for me to exit? I hope I helped someone in some small way by expressing my thoughts and Bible truths.
---Danelle on 8/12/08


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